SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread II

[Karmic Knight]

It just seems like a rather pointless goal in an area under military occupation in lieu of any form of government. Though religion might be useful in channeling the energies of the populace into less destructive ends.

I'm just trying to add a person who might actually chance of being democratically elected if we end up trying to set up an area as a democracy. Also, if the populace is willing to help, he can set up a nice little theocracy for himself.

[Master_Baerne]

It just seems like a rather pointless goal in an area under military occupation in lieu of any form of government. Though religion might be useful in channeling the energies of the populace into less destructive ends.

I'm just trying to add a person who might actually chance of being democratically elected if we end up trying to set up an area as a democracy. Also, if the populace is willing to help, he can set up a nice little theocracy for himself.

I see. An excellency idea, but I remain skeptical about it's feasibility.

[Raj Ahten]

Well we may not be able to democratically elect a person to lead the whole nation, but perhaps part of the CFR could go that way. Did you other FTO guys see Indopal's tenative plan for the CFR's reconstruction I posted awhile back? It was part of that impromptu conference our leaders had. It might be a useable model.

Edit: Here is the plan reposted in the President of Indhopal's own words. Some parts are outdated, but the parts about the CFR are still valid.

President Raj Ahten said,

"It seems we have some work to do before we can come to an agreement on the CFR. Personally I am very wary of backing one warlord against the others. For instance we know next to nothing of this Weinburg character, or his true goals. Besides, I doubt with the remnants of Minoy’s army he'd be able to seal the fate of the Revolutionary Front. Mortimer's government fought them for decades and lost. They'll just return to guerilla tactics, something they are very good at.

What we need is a way to draw the factions into the political process. San Dorado's plan of clearing and building small areas might be the way to start. We should include the local power blocs in this process. In most cases, the warlords are the closest to legitimate authorities we are likely to get. I think we should help those willing to cooperate build their areas into new republics, as the CFR as a whole never made sense as a nation. The Winter Army and the Yorkshire Militias could probably be fairly easily persuaded to join such an effort. Mortimer Jr's faction is an unknown and right now the Revolutionary Front seems hostile to the idea.

For them, a carrot and stick approach would be in order. We offer them economic and development aid if they join the program, and bombing raids if they choose to attack us or the other factions. If they choose to sit out of the process, they can do so and gain nothing. Of course the Devil is in the details, as all the factions would want to control the rich diamond areas in the West of the country. Perhaps putting the fields under the control of a neutral party for distribution would be in order to share the wealth between the factions.

As far as who should command this effort, I understood that it was a joint project. Perhaps each interested party could have a zone of control and we all work towards the same goal? Someone would have to be put in overall command of the effort to coordinate it and personally I have no problem with the Vineyards leading the charge, as long as we can all agree to charge in the same direction.

Now on to Coilerburg. If the alliance agrees, Indhopal will take control of the relief effort. The priority now is smashing the enemy offensive. My General's believe we now have sufficient forces on the ground to accomplish this goal. It is doubtful the rest of the FTO could provide the heavy armor necessary in time to matter anyway. I am told that any aircraft that can be contributed are greatly needed and I thank all of you that have contributed forces all ready.

Once the conflict is over hopefully we can negotiate a peace that Sabika and Omango can live with. An economic development program for the region may be in order, as Minoy, Sabika, and Omango are all in desperate need of one. Perhaps if we concern them with making money they won't want to invade Coilerburg."

Edit: "The Vineyards have a good point that a neutral nation should lead the negotiations for he peace settlememtn with Sabika and Omango. Perhaps we could invite Cascadia to do it? Their hosting of the upcoming Frequesue neutrality conference shows they have no designs on the region."

[Master_Baerne]

Also, we should see about getting Sabika, Omango, and Minoy in the FTO.

[Raj Ahten]

Also, we should see about getting Sabika, Omango, and Minoy in the FTO.

Unless there is some regime change, that may prove difficut. Sabika and Omango hate Coilerburg's guts and were just lost a war to a combined FTO force. Though hopefully the peace settlement will solve some of the problems. (I'm shooting for preventing another round of conflict at the moment).

Minoy has better prospects, as they basically have no government at the moment if I understand the situation correctly. So really we could go in their and try to make the place functional and sign them up for the FTO at the same time.

[Master_Baerne]

Minoy has better prospects, as they basically have no government at the moment if I understand the situation correctly. So really we could go in their and try to make the place functional and sign them up for the FTO at the same time.

Our dear friend Weinburg ought to prove useful in this, seeing as he's the closest thing to a leader Minoy has at the moment.

[Beowulf]

Shep, I call bullshit on the airborne bistatic radar. Amongst other things, the two radars would have to be separated by a considerable distance for the bistatic effect to work. Except you also need to send considerable amounts of information of the datalink to get the receiver to know what the transmitter is doing. And you also need to know the location of the transmitter and receivers fairly well.

[Norseman]

Raj, are you surplussing out those Mirage F-1s?

Yes I am. At the end of the year, they are being phased out in favour of more Gripen's.

For the record I'd be interested in buying... If you'd sell to Astaria. That said I'm interested in virtually any MiG fighter if anyone is selling.

[RogueIce]

So I'll make a grand speech, then hand it over to Beowulf. I do this for a couple reasons:

First, one would assume my military planners are competent people. If I were to do the posts I'd have to get advice anyway, since I'm hardly an expert on aerial warfare (which the opening stages of this will be, anyway). So letting Beo run with it cuts out the middleman, so to speak.

Secondly, I won't be all that active for the next few days anyway. So I'll at least have someone able to toss in my lot.

Beo, I'll be PMing you with various details.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Okay, I finally tied up that one loose end with Suzaku. Now on to more important things, like formulating the 2009 military budget, having Dai-Gurren Mining negotiate with the Winter Army for a mining contract, trying to sell arms to the Katangwans (with Arik's blessing, of course), conducting trade with the various states of Frequesque, and staying out of the Shepistan-Old Dominion clusterfuck.

By the way, I need to mention this again: WeinbErg is not spelled with a U.

[K. A. Pital]

CSR will denounce Shepistan and stay the fuck out of this conflict... so far. The fact that our military must have been, for an in-universe explanation of it, garroted and capsized by a person of the McNamara caliber, the CSR needs years and years to increase the security of the Old Continent.

As for the Soviet navy builder toolkit, there you go.

Sorry for a lack of Kashin-class. I was first of all making stuff that is relevant to my own navy.

P.S. Also, the First Guards Tank Army of the CSR will be re-dislocated under Jerusalem permanently as part of the War Preparedness Plan if Byzantium has no objections to that - might take a month or so to prepare the facilities. And several (actually, many) new VDV divisions will be trained in the CSR as part of the Continental Defense Plan.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

P.S. Also, the First Guards Tank Army of the CSR will be re-dislocated under Jerusalem permanently as part of the War Preparedness Plan if Byzantium has no objections to that - might take a month or so to prepare the facilities. And several (actually, many) new VDV divisions will be trained in the CSR as part of the Continental Defense Plan.

No objections. I'll just requisition more construction vehicles to Jerusalem than before.

[RogueIce]

So I won't be attacking Shepistani forces in Japanistan or Velaria provided they sit it out. Once they leave Japanistan territory, or any Shepistani forces enroute to Japanistan (but not there yet) are of course fair game once war is declared (which I'll be doing presently).

Now, if Skimmer allows Shep to launch strikes from his territory I would consider that an act of war on the part of Japanistan. Obviously if Japanistan itself launches attacks that also counts.

I sent the recommendation to other MESS members. And it'll officially be sent to Japanistan as well. All of this is in the game thread, I'm just reposting it here to make sure nobody misses it.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I love how people forget what BOMARC was.

BOMARC was not some dinky portable trailer system like PATRIOT or HAWK; which can be blown to pieces by cluster bomblets or 1,000 lb unitary warheads striking the center of the trailer arrangement.

It consists of lots of heavily hardened bunkers, each one holding an individual F-99F BOMARC and it's launcher.

Seconly, the F-99F hits Mach 3.1 at 85,000 feet; and can cruise out at this speed to 600 miles. That means pretty much ANYTHING other than a SR-71 or F-12 is in danger of being chased down and killed by it.

And unlike conventional SAMs, if you do a hard turn and dive plus decoys to escape the missile; you aren't safe....because another BOMARC nearby can be retargeted in flight to attac you, or the BOMARC you evaded simply turns around and begins chasing you all over again...that 600 mile range means it's absurdly dangerous.

Consider your BOMARC batteries to be up and operational until they start doing heavy targeting of them with bunker-busters.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Shep, I call bullshit on the airborne bistatic radar. Amongst other things, the two radars would have to be separated by a considerable distance for the bistatic effect to work. Except you also need to send considerable amounts of information of the datalink to get the receiver to know what the transmitter is doing. And you also need to know the location of the transmitter and receivers fairly well.

Hmmm. Yeah, Shep, some evidence this is feasable, please?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

So Byzantium is effectively neutral in this conflict, after consultations with both SNC and MESS members.

So SNC, no worries about attacks, unless Skimmer pulls one anyhow.

[Zor]

Zoria shall also remain Neutral in this conflict, although will diplomatically favour the MESS.

Zor

[phongn]

Hmmm. Yeah, Shep, some evidence this is feasable, please?

I don't think it'll work as a bistatic (or even multistatic) radar system but rather a rather advanced datalink system. I think he got the terminology wrong, there.

[PeZook]

The sheer amount of acronyms in those war posts makes my head hurt...

PeZookia will remain neutral, and advises the SNC to do the same. We'll also call for Japanistan to not allow Shepistani bomber strikes against Canissia or Meidterrenean shipping from their territorry.

[Sea Skimmer]

Hmmm. Yeah, Shep, some evidence this is feasable, please?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... rades2.htm
A bistatic UAV is already being considered openly for the USAF E-3 fleet; excellent reason exists to think the capability already exists in black projects. The USAF would not have fielded stealth aircraft in combat against Iraq in 1991 with the Soviet Union still a threat, at the risk of said aircraft being shot down and captured, if it did not have some kind of countermeasure to the technology.

Also keep in mind, airborne bistatic radar arrays are actually used every time you employ a semi active radar guided missile from a fighter. That’s worked since the 1950s, abet within only a limited cone. The actual concept idea of airborne bistatic radar was first tested with hardware in Britain in 1936, the experiment which had some but generally poor results was meant to overcome the inability of aircraft to lift the radars of the time. A receiver only set was much was lighter.

You would not be able to simply fly all over the sky with the capability active but doing it is very possible given the range of the original MiG-31 datalinks, never mind what’s been improved upon in the two decades that followed the introduction of that plane.

Three or more aircraft are key to turning a contact into a target, because bistatic radar provides poor range data. Three aircraft with two data streams being shared will greatly improve the estimate. That’s actually called multistatic. Once you have a general location.. well it gets filled with missiles which can still very well lock on if they can get close and you hope for the best.

The key is positioning and accurate navigation, the location of the transmitter aircraft must be very well known and datalinks need to coordinate timing. GPS is one way to do the nav end, but flying over his own territory Sheps fighters can simply use a triangulating ground beacon system. This means offensive use of the system would be very difficult. The positioning can be accomplished by literally having the F-106 flown by its computer, MiG-31 already had the ability to be remotely flown and even have its weapons fired in combination with A-50 radar planes. Datalink range was several hundred km in the mid 1980s, by 2008 that could be improved a good bit. Datalinks are much harder to jam then voice radio and radar sets too.

Reduce radar cross section is not magic and the threat from bistatic and metric wavelength radars is very real against an opponent who can compete on a similar technology and funding level. It also helps if his military actually fights, unlike say the Iraqi air force. Stealth makes life much harder for the enemy for sure, and setting up airborne bistatic engagments wouldn’t be easy in the future now that the cat is out of the bag, but such is life in war.

[K. A. Pital]

I imagine the MESS would knew about BOMARC's deployment (which wouldn't be deployed in very significant numbers anyway) and deploy low-penetrating bombers to take out the silos.

I'll leave that to the MESS however.

[PeZook]

I imagine the MESS would knew about BOMARC's deployment (which wouldn't be deployed in very significant numbers anyway) and deploy low-penetrating bombers to take out the silos.

I'll leave that to the MESS however.

Stas, I'd like to move 1 armoredand 1 mechanized division to Byzantium, with some supporting assets (air defence and and a couple of engineering batallions). If the Emperor doesn't mind, do you think we could integrate those into a joint command?

[K. A. Pital]

Sure, that's possible. They could augment the 1st Guards Tank Army.

Technically Japanistan can throw no more than 3-4 armies, of which two are tank Armies, against us. With 1 augmented modern Tank Army and several Byzantium Armies (around 2 tank armies and 2 mech armies, peak), we should have enough strength to meet a Japanistan assault in case such could happen.

[PeZook]

Okay, I PMed the Emperor and will be withdrawing the 1st Hussars from Zagor, replacing them with a mountain brigade. Shady can handle the occupation with his absurdly oversized half a million man army

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Sure, that's possible. They could augment the 1st Guards Tank Army.

Technically Japanistan can throw no more than 3-4 armies, of which two are tank Armies, against us. With 1 augmented modern Tank Army and several Byzantium Armies (around 2 tank armies and 2 mech armies, peak), we should have enough strength to meet a Japanistan assault in case such could happen.

Ah.. my legion is at most division level, albeit larger than a standard division size.