Could Homo-Sapian breed with?

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-09-20 09:59pm

Homo-Neanderthal.....I understand we have mapped its DNA
Did they have 23 chromosome pairs or 24 like Chimps.
Homo-Erectus
Homo-Hablis
or further back?

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2008-09-20 10:30pm

Do you mean "can have offspring with" or "can have fertile offspring?" I ask because it's been hypothesized that we could have (sterile) offspring with chimpanzees, and if that's true we could potentially breed with anything going back to the common ancestor, though whether or not those hybrids would be fertile is up for question.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-09-20 10:32pm

There is room for both questions here?

I though teh idea of Human-Chimp Hybrid was disproven?

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-09-21 12:11am

Mayabird wrote:Do you mean "can have offspring with" or "can have fertile offspring?" I ask because it's been hypothesized that we could have (sterile) offspring with chimpanzees, and if that's true we could potentially breed with anything going back to the common ancestor, though whether or not those hybrids would be fertile is up for question.

OH GOD NO!

That reminds me of that tabloid shit about Stalin trying to beed inhuman apeman hybrids. Christ.

Seriously, that's just wrong. How can we breed (ugh) with apes, anyway? At least with big cats, they're very similar once you take away the funny-colored fur. But with man and apes, it's just too different.

I can accept the idea of breeding with homonids and Neanderthals. But NOT apes. Damned dirty apes!

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2008-09-21 12:46am

Well, as long as the genetic similarities are enough, fertilization is possible. Of course, with the differences in physique, any hybrid will probably be massively deformed and die in infancy.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2008-09-21 03:19am

IIRC the present state of the debate is that genetic evidence indicates Neanderthals probably didn't contribute significantly to the gene pool of modern humanity, which would suggest they probably couldn't interbreed. On the other hand they've found skeletons that look sort of like they could be human-neanderthal hybrids. It might be that they could interbreed but the offspring were sterile, like mules.

I believe the question is still a matter of some debate. Somebody more knowledgeable can correct that if I'm wrong.

Another interesting question is whether Homo Sapiens was interfertile with Homo Antecessor and Homo Heidelbergensis. IIRC Antecessor was probably the last common ancestor of Sapiens and Neanderthals.

BTW, how plausible is humans and chimps actually being interfertile? The chromosomes are different, they're probably at least three genera seperate from us (Pan <=> Australopithecus <=> Homo), so they're not all that closely related, and I don't believe a human-ape hybrid has ever actually been confirmed to exist.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2008-09-21 03:21am

Ghetto edit: about the other two species I mentioned, I believe they were not actually contemporaneous with Sapiens, so the question would be purely academic.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2008-09-21 04:00am

Junghalli wrote:BTW, how plausible is humans and chimps actually being interfertile? The chromosomes are different, they're probably at least three genera seperate from us (Pan <=> Australopithecus <=> Homo), so they're not all that closely related, and I don't believe a human-ape hybrid has ever actually been confirmed to exist.

Horses and donkeys have differing numbers of chromosomes, which doesn't prevent the existence of mules, and a "genre" is just a line drawn at an arbitrary point in a continuum; the number of genres has no bearing in nature on how closely related two animals are. Chimps and humans are very closely related and probably can produce hybrids; the fact that one has never been observed may just as well speak to the rarity of human/chimp mating and the reluctance of zoologists to try an experiment that would probably get them hauled off to jail, if not lynched, in most countries on Earth.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2008-09-21 08:52am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Seriously, that's just wrong. How can we breed (ugh) with apes, anyway? At least with big cats, they're very similar once you take away the funny-colored fur. But with man and apes, it's just too different.

Actually, genetically speaking, humans and chimps are closer than horses and donkeys... which produce mules.

I suspect a human-chimp hybrid IS possible, but the revulsion with which the idea is usually met probably has something to do with why there's never been reliable evidence of one.

On Edit: Darn, beaten to the punch.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-09-21 09:21am

Well, I would love to know how the creationists would respond to the blow to their "Kinds"

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-09-21 10:02am

Ugh. Now that you people say it is possible... my own morbid curiosity is now making me sick.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2008-09-21 11:04am

Kitsune wrote:Well, I would love to know how the creationists would respond to the blow to their "Kinds"

If mules and ligers don't bother them, humanzees won't either.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-09-21 11:31am

RedImperator wrote:If mules and ligers don't bother them, humanzees won't either.

One of the biggest problems than many people have is humans being descended from apes. I guess that they think it demeans them. I talked to a person the other day, not even really a true "Creationist" and he seemed to have less trouble with the bird-raptor connection than the human-ape connection.

Tigers and Lions can be looked at by creationists as a single "Kind" but a human / chimp hybrid should potentially destroy the "Humans are not Apes" argument

Panzer Grenadier · Post by **Panzer Grenadier** » 2008-09-21 03:44pm

So is there any speculation of what the intelligence of a humanzee would be? Would it be smarter than a chimp? Im guessing it would not be as smart as a human though.

I think they should make one

andrewgpaul · Post by **andrewgpaul** » 2008-09-21 04:58pm

Panzer Grenadier wrote:So is there any speculation of what the intelligence of a humanzee would be? Would it be smarter than a chimp? Im guessing it would not be as smart as a human though.

I think they should make one

You volunteering?

Panzer Grenadier · Post by **Panzer Grenadier** » 2008-09-21 05:27pm

Err... I don't think so. I don't think many would volunteer for that. Of course the easiest way would be artificial insemination as I dont think anyone wants to imagine the "alternative" much less actually do the deed.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2008-09-21 05:34pm

You could always just do it in a lab, ya' know. Not sure what the benefit would be though, we can already use chimpanzees for scientific purposes--it's just the ethics that are questionable. Making them part human certainly wouldn't improve that aspect much.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-09-21 05:46pm

According to Wiki

As far back as 1977, researcher J. Michael Bedford[5] discovered that human sperm could penetrate the protective outer membranes of a gibbon egg. Among the apes, the gibbon is the farthest from humans. Bedford's paper also stated that human spermatozoa would not even attach to the zona surface of sub-hominoid primate (baboon, rhesus monkey, squirrel monkey), concluding that although the specificity of human spermatozoa is not confined to man alone, it probably is restricted to the Hominoidea.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2008-09-21 09:11pm

Mayabird wrote:Do you mean "can have offspring with" or "can have fertile offspring?" I ask because it's been hypothesized that we could have (sterile) offspring with chimpanzees, and if that's true we could potentially breed with anything going back to the common ancestor, though whether or not those hybrids would be fertile is up for question.

must resist urge to post Planet of the Apes or George Bush pics....