Debates structure changed for McCain/Palin benefit.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-09-21 11:40am

The Obama and McCain campaigns have agreed to an unusual free-flowing format for the three televised presidential debates, which begin Friday, but the McCain camp fought for and won a much more structured approach for the questioning at the vice-presidential debate, advisers to both campaigns said Saturday.

At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between the Republican nominee for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.

McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.

The wrangling was chiefly between the McCain-Palin camp and the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates, which is sponsoring the forums.

Commission members wanted a relaxed format that included time for unpredictable questioning and challenges between the two vice-presidential candidates. On Wednesday, the commission unanimously rejected a proposal sought by advisers to Ms. Palin and Senator John McCain of Arizona, the Republican presidential nominee, to have the moderator ask questions and the candidates answer, with no time for unfettered exchanges. Advisers to Mr. Biden say they were comfortable with either format.

Both campaigns see the four debates as pivotal moments in a presidential race that is not only extraordinarily close but also drawing intense interest from voters; roughly 40 million viewers watched the major speeches at the two parties’ conventions. The upheaval in the financial markets has recast the race in recent days, moreover, which both sides believe will only heighten attention for the debates.

A commission member said that the new agreement on the vice-presidential debate was reached late Saturday morning. It calls for shorter blocks of candidate statements and open discussion than at the presidential debates.

McCain advisers said they were only somewhat concerned about Ms. Palin’s debating skills compared with those of Mr. Biden, who has served six terms in the Senate, or about his chances of tripping her up. Instead, they say, they wanted Ms. Palin to have opportunities to present Mr. McCain’s positions, rather than spending time talking about her experience or playing defense.

While the debates between presidential nominees are traditionally the main events in the fall election season, the public interest in Ms. Palin has proved extraordinary, and a large audience is expected for her national debate debut.

Indeed, both the McCain and Obama campaigns have similar concerns about the vice-presidential matchup in St. Louis: that Ms. Palin, of Alaska, as a new player in national politics, or Mr. Biden, of Delaware, as a loquacious and gaffe-prone speaker, could commit a momentum-changing misstep in their debate.

The negotiations for the three 90-minute debates between the men at the top of the tickets were largely free of brinksmanship. Neither side threatened to pull out, and concerns about camera angles and stagecraft were minor.

Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, the Democratic nominee for president, and Mr. McCain did not intercede personally to settle any disputes. They agreed to one substantive change to the format originally proposed by the debate commission, giving them two minutes apiece to make a statement at the beginning of each segment on a new topic.

Mr. Obama successfully sought to flip the proposed topics for the first and third debates, so foreign policy is now coming first and economic and other domestic issues come last. There is a second debate, in the format of a town hall meeting, in which the candidates will sit on director’s chairs and take questions from the audience and Internet users on any topic.

The debate commission had proposed that the first debate be on economic issues and the third on foreign policy — in part, people involved in the process said, because the first debate is usually the most watched, and many voters rank the economy as their top concern.

Mr. Obama wanted foreign policy first to show viewers that he could provide depth, strength and intelligence on those issues, his advisers said, given that Mr. McCain consistently wins higher ratings in opinion polls as a potential commander in chief.

Mr. Obama wanted domestic issues to come last; advisers said that they believed even before the start of the financial crisis that the election was most likely to turn on the state of the economy and that he wanted the final televised exchange to focus on those concerns. He has argued that Mr. McCain would continue the economic policies of President Bush.

Mr. McCain also wanted foreign policy topics to come first in the debates, his aides said, in the hope of capitalizing on his positive reputation on national security issues across party lines.

He wanted limits on the original format for the first and third debates, which had been nine topics with nine minutes of free-flowing debate on each one. Mr. Obama went along, though his aides did insist that at least several minutes of open-ended debate occur in each block of questioning, because they believe he does well in that format.

Now the candidates will be asked a question, each will give an answer of two minutes or less, and then they will mix it up for five additional minutes before moving on to the next question in the same format.

Obama aides also agreed to use lecterns at the first event, which Mr. McCain preferred; at the third debate, the two men will be seated at a round table, in the 10 o’clock and 2 o’clock positions, with the moderator at 6 o’clock.

McCain aides said that they were conscious of the fact that Mr. McCain has a prominent scar on one side of his face, and that they could not predict how prominent it would appear with the camera angles, lighting and make-up.

The debate formats were negotiated by Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, representing the McCain campaign, and Representative Rahm Emanuel, Democrat of Illinois, for the Obama camp. A handful of aides from both camps were also involved, hammering out issues between themselves and then holding conference calls with members of the commission to reach final agreements, people involved in the process said.

Mr. Obama plans to begin debate camp on Tuesday with a tight circle of advisers at a site in the Tampa Bay area of Florida, his aides say, with a prominent Democratic lawyer, Greg Craig, playing the part of Mr. McCain in mock debates.

The Obama campaign has been studying Mr. McCain’s debate performances from the Republican primary as well as in his 2000 race for president. Each debate has been rated and scored, with briefing points and highlights sent to Mr. Obama.

Mr. Obama’s advisers have been studying in particular Mr. McCain’s temperament and mood and looking for potential flash points of anger.

Mr. McCain, his advisers say, has yet to spend much time watching the dozens of primary debate performances of Mr. Obama over the last two years. But they said that a small staff of aides had been reviewing them and that Mr. McCain would see some highlights next week.

McCain aides refused to say when his debate camp would be or where, or who was playing Mr. Obama or Mr. Biden. (Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm, Democrat of Michigan, is playing Ms. Palin for Mr. Biden’s preparations.)

Mr. Obama plans to sequester himself and a few advisers at his debate camp. The attendance is limited to a small group of foreign policy advisers, each rotating in for separate sessions with Mr. Obama and Mr. Craig.

The choice of Florida, particularly the politically critical region near Tampa, was selected with a dual purpose in mind. While Mr. Obama will have few public events from Tuesday through Friday, aides said, his presence could draw considerable local news media attention in a state where he hopes to fiercely challenge Mr. McCain.

While the intense portion of debate training begins on Tuesday, Mr. Obama has been preparing for weeks, in part by drawing upon his experience debating Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York in the Democratic primaries. His aides have been studying those debate performances to address one of his biggest shortcomings: his ability to deliver a tight answer. Already, his campaign is trying to diminish expectations for Mr. Obama’s performance.

“Despite the fact that we got the chance to do this a lot during the primaries, these debates are not by any stretch of the imagination his strong suit,” said Robert Gibbs, a senior strategist to Mr. Obama. “He likes to talk about a problem, give some examples that addresses some solutions and oftentimes that doesn’t fit into the moderator’s allotted time.”

The campaigns had no say over the choice of moderators — Jim Lehrer of PBS, Tom Brokaw of NBC and Bob Schieffer of CBS for the presidential debates, and Gwen Ifill of PBS for the vice-presidential debate.

“Everything matters and issues can always come up, such as the size of podiums — like for Carter and Ford in 1976 — to the timer lights if the candidate doesn’t like them,” said Tad Devine, a Democratic strategist who advised Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004. “There hasn’t really been a ‘debate about the debates’ this year, but that can change in a minute.”

When you spend three decades working the refs, the refs apparently just stop fighting back.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2008-09-21 12:20pm

The Obama campaign should have really pushed harder for a looser VP debate. If you think about it, the debates have drawn massive television audiences, and McCain has spent the past few weeks really trying to limit media exposure to Palin (with one real interview and one syncophantic "interview" from Sean Hannity).

There's already a bit of a narrative appearing in the media, that Palin is only skin deep and vulnerable to media exposure. If they actually tried to back out on a VP debate, that would only reinforce that - it would make Palin look weak and the McCain campaign cowardly.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2008-09-21 02:05pm

Making it more structured still lets Biden take swiped at her, as his standard speaking cadence makes room for little toss-away jabs. It'll also keep him from being as mean as possible, which might be the right thing to do. You don't want to give Sarah and Joe a lot of back-and-forth time, since that'll just appeal to the "injured female ego" voter more by having the old boy beat up on the hockey mom. Biden can still look intelligent and in command of the issues while Sarah Parrots, and not end up looking like a bully.

Invictus ChiKen · Post by **Invictus ChiKen** » 2008-09-21 03:46pm

Covenant wrote:Making it more structured still lets Biden take swiped at her, as his standard speaking cadence makes room for little toss-away jabs. It'll also keep him from being as mean as possible, which might be the right thing to do. You don't want to give Sarah and Joe a lot of back-and-forth time, since that'll just appeal to the "injured female ego" voter more by having the old boy beat up on the hockey mom. Biden can still look intelligent and in command of the issues while Sarah Parrots, and not end up looking like a bully.

Damn so it could be that the Obama campaign allowed this to happen so they can make it look like Biden kicked Palin's ass on the turf they begged for. NICE!

xerex · Post by **xerex** » 2008-09-21 03:54pm

I remember when Bush pushed for 30 sec limits on answers in debates in the beleif that they would cripple the over talkative Kerry. Instead they forced Kerry to give a simple short answer while Bush was left to repeatthe same 2 lines over and over and over to fill up 30secs.

Kerry's peak was after the first debate.

here's hoping Obama can do what kerry couldnt and seal the deal.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2008-09-21 04:05pm

This doesn't matter that much. Biden is going to make Palin look like a fool unless they change the debate rules to him being gagged the entire debate. This debate was always throwing a lamb to a bulldog and the fact that the media has been giving Palin so much attention is only going to mean more people are going to be watching when Biden tears her apart.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2008-09-21 04:22pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:This doesn't matter that much. Biden is going to make Palin look like a fool unless they change the debate rules to him being gagged the entire debate. This debate was always throwing a lamb to a bulldog and the fact that the media has been giving Palin so much attention is only going to mean more people are going to be watching when Biden tears her apart.

Which may be exactly what the McCain camp wants. What do you think the reaction is going to be when a confident male politician starts "goin' all elitist" on the poor, defenceless hockey mom? Sarah Palin's strategy is to appeal to reactionary values. She's not going to lose a lot of that appeal by appearing vulnerable, whereas Biden is going to be beating up on a girl.

If that sounds ridiculous, just keep in mind that Palin's actually banking on her looks for this campaign, believe it or not; it's not as if there's anything more rational involved.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2008-09-21 04:36pm

Biden is comfortable with either format, so it's not like he really cares. It was probably wise of him to avoid the risk of getting into a shouting match with Palin anyway, lest he come off as being a big ole meanie to the poor, folksy hockey mom.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2008-09-21 06:24pm

Honestly I'm far from concerned about the Vp debate format. Already Palin's numbers on her favorable/unfavorable rating are taking a dive while the natioanl trackers have been moving consistently towards Obama since the news about all of the nonsense coming out of her mouth started being questioned. Simply put she would need to finally reach out to voters other than Fox News watching gay bashing young earth creationists in order to have an impact and she isn't going to do that against Biden. She fired up the base but can't campaign as a surrogate because McCain doesn't want the sight of her drawing 4000 of the faithul and him 400 of the undecided to dominate news cycles so her role will continue to shrink. McCain had to fire up the base, she has, and they wont' change their mind based on the VP debates nor will the vast majority of remaining undecideds so it comes back to the Presidential debates and that is where Obama has to hammer McCain.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2008-09-21 06:43pm

I'm getting a serious Elijah Mohammed / Malcom X vibe from McCain / Palin these days.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2008-09-21 07:03pm

Durandal wrote:I'm getting a serious Elijah Mohammed / Malcom X vibe from McCain / Palin these days.

What do you mean?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2008-09-21 07:15pm

She's outshining him. The Number Two is becoming more important than the Number One.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2008-09-21 07:17pm

Durandal wrote:She's outshining him. The Number Two is becoming more important than the Number One.

And those of us who saw Spike Lee's movie know what happens next.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2008-09-21 07:20pm

Glocksman wrote:
Durandal wrote:She's outshining him. The Number Two is becoming more important than the Number One.
And those of us who saw Spike Lee's movie know what happens next.

She goes on a pilgrimage to Mecca? Talk about political suicide.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2008-09-21 07:23pm

Durandal wrote:
Glocksman wrote:
Durandal wrote:She's outshining him. The Number Two is becoming more important than the Number One.
And those of us who saw Spike Lee's movie know what happens next.
She goes on a pilgrimage to Mecca? Talk about political suicide.

I was thinking more along the lines of Tucker Bounds & Crew 'taking her out', so to speak, but the sight of her making a pilgrimage to Mecca would be even better for the Obama campaign.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2008-09-21 09:04pm

Why are we all assuming that Obama and Biden will win the debates? For a start the media will decide who has won the debate based on what they think will keep the election the most interesting, pundits will talk about how McCain "spoke to the American people" in a way that Obama didn't and nobody can argue with that, because its untestable.

Second of all McCain has a less complex policy and reality to get across than Obama's. He can tell people he ha always bee a patriot, blah blah blah, pro-winning etc. where Obama is forced, by the very nature of his position being based in reality, to explain some rather complex ideas. Why he was against the war against the baddies in Iraq, but treats Pakistan as an area the US may have to strike.

Feil · Post by **Feil** » 2008-09-21 09:20pm

Winning the debates doesn't even matter. The point of the debates is to advertise the candidate and harp on talking points, just like everything else. Remember how Bush/Cheney lost every debate in both elections?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2008-09-21 09:28pm

It's being assumed here because McCain and Palin have largely been tossing off glib sound bytes that have withered under reality and scrutiny. Sure they may be less complex but that's because they're largely foolish platitudes. It's hard to win when you're bringing so little to the table.

Against that, Obama and Biden have both shown they can fight that kind of campaign well and both of them are rather well polished speakers to boot. They also have reasonably well thought out and articulated positions which is something Kerry lacked from day one. Both of these guys are good, not some party suit from a safe seat. They've done very well in the daily war of words and in the primary debates. So I think the assumption that Obama and Biden can carry the debates is not at all unwarranted.

It's hard to see how they couldn't at come out the least breaking even among those generally looking at this undecided. The media may try to spin it but like so much other spin, it's not necessarily going to change things drastically.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2008-09-21 09:30pm

The thing is, McCain pivots at a glacial pace when stumped in a discussion, and Palin isn't much better. Barack and Joe are better on their feet, so there's no doubt that if they choose to split the baby in terms of issues and style, the Democrats will be able to make McCain look like a doddering old fool in the questioning. He'll have his talking points, but Obama will probably try to get him angry and hot-headed while also being able to just hammer on him about being similar to George Bush. The real battle is to convince independants that Barack has a real plan for __insert issue here__ and to make Republicans less excited about voting for McCain. Neither of these requires a ton of explaining, and can be done just as well by sticking to the attack with short, clear answers.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2008-09-21 11:04pm

Keep in mind, though, that the expectations for Palin are probably going to be much lower than for Biden. She could probably do nothing but parrot McCain's talking points with a smile, and as long as she doesn't blank out if Biden asks her anything or the moderator asks a follow-up question, plenty of people will be talking about how she showed up Biden, even if she didn't.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2008-09-21 11:22pm

Guardsman Bass wrote:Keep in mind, though, that the expectations for Palin are probably going to be much lower than for Biden. She could probably do nothing but parrot McCain's talking points with a smile, and as long as she doesn't blank out if Biden asks her anything or the moderator asks a follow-up question, plenty of people will be talking about how she showed up Biden, even if she didn't.

That was basically her approach to the Charlie Gibson interview, and she wound up looking like an idiot. If that's the game she wants to play, Biden doesn't even need to go on the attack. Unless Sean Hannity is moderating, Palin will get questions that require responses that could pass a Turing test.

Furthermore, I don't actually think the expectations will be that low. They would have been if the debates were held the day after she was chosen, but Sarah Barracuda painted herself into a corner by being a reasonably good speaker (better than McSame, actually) and a crowd favorite. She's going to have to perform in the debate, not just keep her head above water.

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2008-09-22 03:17am

The Guid wrote:Why are we all assuming that Obama and Biden will win the debates? For a start the media will decide who has won the debate based on what they think will keep the election the most interesting, pundits will talk about how McCain "spoke to the American people" in a way that Obama didn't and nobody can argue with that, because its untestable.

Second of all McCain has a less complex policy and reality to get across than Obama's. He can tell people he ha always bee a patriot, blah blah blah, pro-winning etc. where Obama is forced, by the very nature of his position being based in reality, to explain some rather complex ideas. Why he was against the war against the baddies in Iraq, but treats Pakistan as an area the US may have to strike.

It's a sad thing to see a democratic nation having to make things easier(or more stupid) for the public to understand and simply addresing short term benefits is able to help a canidate secure tons of votes.

Sigh...too bad we are not living in an idealistic world, where the public in general is able to make informed choice. A good and viable democracy can only work where people actually bothered to think about certain issues.

Singapore's democratic values has degraded to such a huge extend, where people down here can't even say the reasons why they hate the PAP, other than saying PAP is taking away their money, or saying they simply hate the PAP, such as blaming the entire civil service, even though it is almost impossible to change all the stuff working in the civil service.

Alerik the Fortunate · Post by **Alerik the Fortunate** » 2008-09-22 04:58pm

I find it ironic that the brave, patriotic leaders who are willing to face down the rest of the world militarily are afraid to face unprepped questions from the politically interested public of their own country. It's no wonder; when you allow the mythological world they inhabit to come into direct contact with reality the enchantment fades and looks rather foolish.

Post by **Coyote** » 2008-09-22 05:23pm

Yes, indeed-- because as we all know, Putin, Ahmedinijad, and everyone else we may have to have tense talks with always agree to structured & formatted debates beforehand. The lack of ability of McSame and Governer Barbie to think on their feet has got to be a deciding factor at some point.

Hopefully the Obama camp will get to pick the terms of the next debate-- aw, hell, what am I thinking?

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2008-09-22 06:00pm

Hopefully, this will work in Obama's favor.

What Joe Average has to think about;
If McCain does really poor in a structured debate, imagine how he'd do in unorganized or 'on his feet'