Moderator: NecronLord
Let us all hope that the show does not take too big a rating hit despite going up against 24.Cromartie kidnaps Charley's wife, and Sarah and Derek attempt to rescue her, while John finds himself caught between Cameron and Riley.
Does it have something to do with the fact that our bodies are composed of 70% water?Strider wrote:I wonder just how heavy those Skinjob Terminators are. (Clearly, heavy enough to sink.) However, wouldn't the extra weight and mass make it more difficult for them to go undercover? They might be unable to sit on unsturdy stools, have to watch for weak floors, etc; not to mention the cover difficulties probably involved in Vick's marriage.
Us being 70% water means we have a density roughly the same as water (slightly less). This means we naturally float and can swim easily, since the denser, heavier water displaces our bodies. Cromartie sank, even though physically he is much, much stronger than any human. This means his density is greater than that of water, since if it wasn't he would be able to swim easily with his strength and coordination. Water has a density of 1 g/cc, and most metals have densities of order 5 g/cc. Even though his metal terminator frame is probably less than half his total volume, it's obviously enough to make a significant difference.Elaro wrote:Does it have something to do with the fact that our bodies are composed of 70% water?Strider wrote:I wonder just how heavy those Skinjob Terminators are. (Clearly, heavy enough to sink.) However, wouldn't the extra weight and mass make it more difficult for them to go undercover? They might be unable to sit on unsturdy stools, have to watch for weak floors, etc; not to mention the cover difficulties probably involved in Vick's marriage.
Yeah, not very impressive thinking. If I had reason to believe metal robots were after me, I would be very much inclined to want one at my side permanently. You do realize this John here is still basically a kid who's had this identity forced upon him that he wants nothing to do with? He's desperately wanting a real life of his own, even if he knows it's not in the cards, right?Thanas wrote:Well, this episode was a bit better than the last one, but not by much. Mainly, my pet peeve was John acting like an idiot again. Ditching your only efficient protection for playing dress up?
Yes, I'm sure you'd wouldn't want contact with the opposite sex or have any yearning for your own 'normal' life, so much so that your young self will occasionally break some common sense rules just to at least have a taste of that freedom...If I had reason to believe metal robots were after me, I would be very much inclined to want one at my side permanently.
So what? He is still acting like an idiot. Understandable, maybe, but definitely not smart.Bubble Boy wrote:You do realize this John here is still basically a kid who's had this identity forced upon him that he wants nothing to do with? He's desperately wanting a real life of his own, even if he knows it's not in the cards, right?Thanas wrote:Well, this episode was a bit better than the last one, but not by much. Mainly, my pet peeve was John acting like an idiot again. Ditching your only efficient protection for playing dress up?
Yeah, let's see. He managed to do that just fine without acting like an idiot last season, which you must have missed. Neither with Morris nor with his chem partner did he ever act as stupid as this. Your point was?Yes, I'm sure you'd wouldn't want contact with the opposite sex or have any yearning for your own 'normal' life, so much so that your young self will occasionally break some common sense rules just to at least have a taste of that freedom...
He managed to do that last season without being an idiot.Frankly, his character is coming along great as far as I'm concerned. I expect him to lash out and resist his 'destiny', pining for the life he knows he can't have.
Nice strawman you've got there.He's a human being, and a young one at that. I'm not going to buy anyone's bullshit that a normal boy would throw himself into this macho military role and not have any realistic normal human desires beyond that. Especially since he knows armageddon is just around the corner where virtually all of life's luxuries and pleasures are going down the drain, and his chances for at least having a tiny bit of that before it's gone forever are disappearing fast.
He was showing a lot of signs of PTSD in the last two episodes. And I am not attacking his character. He broved himself to be very brave numerous times. Yet in this season he has acted very, very stupid. Two different things. So get off your high horse.One should be amazed at his strength of character; a lot of young people simply couldn't handle that kind of presssure or sacrifice without being majorly depressed, possibly even suicidal.
Had he had an actual bomb under the chair, there would of been no one to call his target and give him all the information he needed to track him down and kill him. Remember, John is Cromartie's target. Doesn't mean he won't kill Derek and Sarah, but if them being alive allows him to find his priority target than its best to leave them alive.Gerald Tarrant wrote:3. I wasn't pleased with Cromartie's planning in this one. He should have had an actual bomb under the chair, or some bug to track Sarah Conner and Crew. John's in trouble without Derek and Sarah, so blowing them up would be a serious blow to John, as an alternative tracking them would also have been useful. I would have thought T-888's were better schemers.
I don't think they *could*, if theyre heavy enough to sink in the first place. Most of this weight is probably due to the metal endoskeleton, so even if parts between metal and flesh are filled with air (which compared to water, weighs essentially nothing), they would probably still be too heavy to swim.Anarchist Bunny wrote:Gerald Tarrant wrote: Also, I liked that John is saved by his own means. Cromartie's plan worked, and was only foiled by John's actions(probably more a lucky guess than just luck, since it's been long established that terminators are fucking heavy, although unknown if they had some sort of bouyancy mechanism.
Cameron cannot really weigh 200+ lbs, given the fact that Sarah tossed her out of a window with ease in the first season and that John and Sarah were able to carry her into a wheelbarrow.Strider wrote:Even with all the fuzzyness, we can definitely be sure that increasing a person's density by even 20% (36 lbs for a 180 lb man) should make it difficult if not impossible to swim. Therefore, we can reconcile Terminators being able to maintain cover by not being superheavy and still sinking: they might be ~ 1 1/5 times as dense as a human, nothing that would be noticed unless you make a habit of picking them up or chucking them in ponds.
A counterargument to this might be that if they were that close to the human norm, sacrifices would be made in the metal endoskeleton to get them the rest of the way. I think it's sillier to believe that Cameron masses 200 lbs+ and it doesn't cause cover problems.[/url]
Peptuck wrote:
Do they have next-episode previews in the Fox website? I had to record this one, and I didn't get the preview at the end of this one.
Fine no bomb under the chair, but once they place the phone call, blow up the cell tower, then track them down and kill them. Without Cameron it shouldn't be a problem for him. That's option 1. John has escaped from him before with, so he shouldn't count on always being able to get him. Weakening him by taking out his human guardian's would have been a good bet.Anarchist Bunny wrote:Had he had an actual bomb under the chair, there would of been no one to call his target and give him all the information he needed to track him down and kill him. Remember, John is Cromartie's target. Doesn't mean he won't kill Derek and Sarah, but if them being alive allows him to find his priority target than its best to leave them alive.Gerald Tarrant wrote:3. I wasn't pleased with Cromartie's planning in this one. He should have had an actual bomb under the chair, or some bug to track Sarah Conner and Crew. John's in trouble without Derek and Sarah, so blowing them up would be a serious blow to John, as an alternative tracking them would also have been useful. I would have thought T-888's were better schemers.
I didn't like it that much, no fall back plan. Think of this like a chess game. Not every move has to be a checkmate, sometimes you attack two things at once, and if you don't get the king, you still get some material gains (Derek, Sarah).Frankly I think it was a very nice multilayered plan in that he sets up an obvious trap, which Sarah would not want to risk John in. Then makes it blatantly obvious that it was just a distraction to pull her away from John so she immediately reacts to warn him and thus leads Cromartie straight to him.
Oh jeez. Cameron, in tears.eyexist wrote:Peptuck wrote:
Do they have next-episode previews in the Fox website? I had to record this one, and I didn't get the preview at the end of this one.
Ask, and ye shall receive.
Needless to say Monday can't come soon enough.
Not worth the risk. Sarah and Derek came loaded and fully prepped to face the Terminator, Derek mounting a grenade launcher(which in Dungeon and Dragons was shown to take out a T-888 in a shot, although what kind is up to some speculation, in didn't burn like a thermite round, but it also didn't frag since Derek and Cameron were right up close to it, maybe some sort of resistance custom job?). Trying to take them out would of been too great of a risk for not working directly towards their objective. Especially when he left a couple of bombs anyways to try to kill them if not slow them down.Gerald Tarrant wrote:Fine no bomb under the chair, but once they place the phone call, blow up the cell tower, then track them down and kill them. Without Cameron it shouldn't be a problem for him. That's option 1. John has escaped from him before with, so he shouldn't count on always being able to get him. Weakening him by taking out his human guardian's would have been a good bet.Anarchist Bunny wrote:Had he had an actual bomb under the chair, there would of been no one to call his target and give him all the information he needed to track him down and kill him. Remember, John is Cromartie's target. Doesn't mean he won't kill Derek and Sarah, but if them being alive allows him to find his priority target than its best to leave them alive.Gerald Tarrant wrote:3. I wasn't pleased with Cromartie's planning in this one. He should have had an actual bomb under the chair, or some bug to track Sarah Conner and Crew. John's in trouble without Derek and Sarah, so blowing them up would be a serious blow to John, as an alternative tracking them would also have been useful. I would have thought T-888's were better schemers.
On what? He disabled the vehicles. IIRC no one grabbed Michelle's purse when they left. It'd be difficult to do and worthless had his bombs worked.Option 2. Don't kill them, plant a tracker on them, I'm sure he could have figured out a way. This gives him a fallback in case his plan of catching John on the Pier fails
Well, A you keep ignoring the fact that he did try to kill the Derek, Sarah in a manner that would not risk him not being able to engage his target.I didn't like it that much, no fall back plan. Think of this like a chess game. Not every move has to be a checkmate, sometimes you attack two things at once, and if you don't get the king, you still get some material gains (Derek, Sarah).Frankly I think it was a very nice multilayered plan in that he sets up an obvious trap, which Sarah would not want to risk John in. Then makes it blatantly obvious that it was just a distraction to pull her away from John so she immediately reacts to warn him and thus leads Cromartie straight to him.
His plan was also silly in that he had no way of knowing what Cameron would do, and she could delay him or expose him enough to wreck his mission. If John hadn't been trying to ditch Cameron it wouldn't have worked, and Cromartie would have gotten very little for his trouble.
iirc Derek comes out of the area where the cellphone and signal equipment was with an explosion there too.A question, 2 bombs at Cromartie's lair? You sure about that? I only saw the cell-phone tower go off, may need to check the DVR again.
I am not so sure either plan wouldn't have constituted a risk for himself. Cromartie has no support base, even less than the Connors. Any loss of limb would be catastrophical. And considering that Derek is wielding a grenade launcher, a weapon which has already destroyed one Terminator in the show, he might very well stay clear of them unless absolutely necessary. The bombing of the celltower had every chance of accomplishing that anyway and had Derek not chanced upon the wire, they would all be dead or severely injured anyway.Gerald Tarrant wrote:Fine no bomb under the chair, but once they place the phone call, blow up the cell tower, then track them down and kill them. Without Cameron it shouldn't be a problem for him. That's option 1. John has escaped from him before with, so he shouldn't count on always being able to get him. Weakening him by taking out his human guardian's would have been a good bet.
Option 2. Don't kill them, plant a tracker on them, I'm sure he could have figured out a way. This gives him a fallback in case his plan of catching John on the Pier fails
Maybe that was what the gun was for? Terminators are expert shots and Cameron cannot protect John from all angles.His plan was also silly in that he had no way of knowing what Cameron would do, and she could delay him or expose him enough to wreck his mission. If John hadn't been trying to ditch Cameron it wouldn't have worked, and Cromartie would have gotten very little for his trouble.
No, the pushing was all Sarah's doing.Lord_Xerxes wrote:IIRC she pushed her out of a chair through the window and I think it may have been with John's help.
Depending on your interpretation of Terminator canon, this would obviously be a model variant issue. In Terminator 3, the Arnold model was heavy enough that a big fireman couldn't even budge him while immobile and inactive.Thanas wrote:Anyway, we know from Vick that Terminators only weigh marginally more than Humans.
T3 is not canon.Bubble Boy wrote:Depending on your interpretation of Terminator canon, this would obviously be a model variant issue. In Terminator 3, the Arnold model was heavy enough that a big fireman couldn't even budge him while immobile and inactive.Thanas wrote:Anyway, we know from Vick that Terminators only weigh marginally more than Humans.
