Bailout plan NOT pwned!

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-09-29 03:21pm

Tribun wrote:Sorry for another post, this just in.
Contrast it to McCain's reaction:
His reaction

This makes it more obvious than ever that his stunt last week was a transparent publicity grab. Apparently it's not important enough for him to stop campaigning to help fix the crisis now that there's no debates immediately scheduled.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-09-29 03:23pm

Dow down over 600 points now.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2008-09-29 03:24pm

Tribun wrote:Sorry for another post, this just in.
Contrast it to McCain's reaction:
His reaction

He's in the shit because he was bragging just this morning about how he personally solved the crisis. Oops. I'm sure his advisers are ginning up a statement blaming Obama for the fact over a hundred Republicans defected (they're already blaming Pelosi for being too mean and hurting House Republicans' widdle feelings).

Count Chocula · Post by **Count Chocula** » 2008-09-29 03:24pm

Obama has reacted to these news.
I again feel that he reacts like a president should.

For a good layman's summary, with links to detailed articles on Democrat and Obama's role in this stinkhole subprime mortgage crisis, click HERE. It's a fun little blog.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2008-09-29 03:24pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Dow down over 600 points now.

Don't they have this mechnasim that stops all trading if the losses are too great?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-09-29 03:27pm

Tribun wrote:
Don't they have this mechnasim that stops all trading if the losses are too great?

I believe that comes in at around 10%. That's where Brazil stopped today.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2008-09-29 03:38pm

Tribun wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Dow down over 600 points now.
Don't they have this mechnasim that stops all trading if the losses are too great?

http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/Trader.aspx ... uitBreaker

We're still still a fair ways away from the down limits.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2008-09-29 03:42pm

This is a nice read, I think.
The article in question

The failure of the financial bailout bill in the House is a classic example of an old adage: all politics is local.

Despite the fact that President George W. Bush and the leadership of both parties lined up behind the bill, the rank and file of both parties -- particularly on the Republican side -- rebelled in light of polling that showed the American public is deeply skeptical about a planned $700 billion bailout for the financial industry.

With just over one month left before the November election, politicians of both partisan stripes are concerned primarily about one thing: their own political futures.

And, even a cursory glance at polling on the issue, shows why so many politicians voted against the bill.

In a recent USA Today/Gallup, just 22 percent of the sample said they wanted Congress to "pass a plan similar to what the Bush Administration has proposed" while 56 percent wanted Congress to pass something "different" (although what that different plan would be was not made clear) and 11 percent wanted Congress to take no action at all.

The results were slightly more mixed in a New York Times/CBS News poll where 42 percent said they approved of the government's financial rescue plan while 46 disapproved, and in the Post/ABC poll where 44 percent expressed approval for the plan and 42 percent disapproved.

The data suggest that this bill was far from a political winner for members of Congress set to face voters in 36 days.

And, for vulnerable Republicans who believe that the free-spending attitude of Congress and the Bush Administration was either partially or primarily responsible for their ouster from majorities in the House and the Senate in 2006, the idea of floating the federal government another $700 billion was simply unpalatable.

It's no coincidence then that of the 205 Members who voted in support of the bill today, there is only one -- Rep. Chris Shays (R-Conn.) -- who finds himself in a difficult reelection race this fall. The list of the 228 "nays" reads like a virtual target list for the two parties.

While it's clear that the main reason the bill failed was the provincial concerns of more than 220 Members, the blame game is already well under way at the presidential level. John McCain had staked much last week on his high-profile decision to suspend his campaign to return to Washington to try and help bring about a deal on the bailout.

When a deal wasn't reached in short order, McCain scrapped his plans to postpone the first presidential debate in Mississippi on Friday night. But, he did return to Washington shortly afterward to return to work on turning the bailout bill into a reality.

By this morning, McCain seemed to believe that a deal was done and even seemed to claim some credit for making it so. "I went to Washington last week to make sure that the taxpayers of Ohio and across this great country were not left footing the bill for mistakes made on Wall Street and evil and greed in Washington," McCain said at a campaign rally in Columbus, Ohio.

Barack Obama had adopted a slightly more hands-off approach to the issue, returning to Washington late last week at the request of President Bush to join in a high-profile meeting at the White House but largely stayed out of the nitty gritty of the negotiations.

Obama's campaign privately pronounced themselves very pleased with the way last week played out -- insisting that McCain had appeared "erratic" during a crisis while Obama had been calm, sober and serious.

Obama, moments after the bill failed, urged people not to panic, according to the Post's Perry Bacon. "It's important for the American public and the markets to stay calm" said Obama, adding: "One of the messages I have to Congress is get this done, Democrats, Republicans step up to the plate."

The focus on the economy seems to have accrued to Obama and the Democrats' benefit.

The latest Gallup tracking poll puts Obama ahead of McCain by eight points -- 50 percent to 42 percent. It was the second consecutive tracking poll that showed Obama with a statistically significant lead and the fourth straight track that showed Obama maintaining or widening his lead since the survey showed the two candidates locked in a 46 percent to 46 percent tie early last week.

With the bailout bill almost certain to remain in the news for the remainder of this week (and perhaps far longer), McCain and the Republican Party must find a way to turn around their negative trend line on the issue.

Republican House leaders may have signaled the new strategy for the party in a news conference moments ago when they blamed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) for a partisan speech that, they argued, tanked the possible passage of the legislation. McCain, for his part, has yet to offer any thought on the latest developments.

Stay tuned to The Fix for updates on this constantly-changing story.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-09-29 03:45pm

The dow is down over 600 points, how does that happen? I was under the impression that trading was supposed to be suspended if the dow ever fell more than 500 in a single day.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2008-09-29 03:50pm

aerius wrote: http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/Trader.aspx ... uitBreaker

We're still still a fair ways away from the down limits.

Looking at the BBC's delayed feed, we're getting there. Down by over 700 as I type and every time I refresh the number grows. Chance of hitting the big barries is pretty much nil unless the market implodes but I wouldn't be shocked if we got a short delay.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2008-09-29 03:52pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:The dow is down over 600 points, how does that happen? I was under the impression that trading was supposed to be suspended if the dow ever fell more than 500 in a single day.

It's percentage-based.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-09-29 03:53pm

Asia will go thermonuclear in a few hours. And Shanghai isn't open till next week.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2008-09-29 04:00pm

Crazy_Vasey wrote:Looking at the BBC's delayed feed, we're getting there. Down by over 700 as I type and every time I refresh the number grows. Chance of hitting the big barries is pretty much nil unless the market implodes but I wouldn't be shocked if we got a short delay.

And the market spites me by rallying the moment I post. It's really a good thing I'm not a trader.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2008-09-29 04:09pm

---- AYES 205 ---

Ackerman
Allen
Andrews
Arcuri
Bachus
Baird
Baldwin
Bean
Berman
Berry
Bishop (GA)
Bishop (NY)
Blunt
Boehner
Bonner
Bono Mack
Boozman
Boren
Boswell
Boucher
Boyd (FL)
Brady (PA)
Brady (TX)
Brown (SC)
Brown, Corrine
Calvert
Camp (MI)
Campbell (CA)
Cannon
Cantor
Capps
Capuano
Cardoza
Carnahan
Castle
Clarke
Clyburn
Cohen
Cole (OK)
Cooper
Costa
Cramer
Crenshaw
Crowley
Cubin
Davis (AL)
Davis (CA)
Davis (IL)
Davis, Tom
DeGette
DeLauro
Dicks
Dingell
Donnelly
Doyle
Dreier
Edwards (TX)
Ehlers
Ellison
Ellsworth
Emanuel
Emerson
Engel
Eshoo
Etheridge
Everett
Farr
Fattah
Ferguson
Fossella
Foster
Frank (MA)
Gilchrest
Gonzalez
Gordon
Granger
Gutierrez
Hall (NY)
Hare
Harman
Hastings (FL)
Herger
Higgins
Hinojosa
Hobson
Holt
Honda
Hooley
Hoyer
Inglis (SC)
Israel
Johnson, E. B.
Kanjorski
Kennedy
Kildee
Kind
King (NY)
Kirk
Klein (FL)
Kline (MN)
LaHood
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Levin
Lewis (CA)
Lewis (KY)
Loebsack
Lofgren, Zoe
Lowey
Lungren, Daniel E.
Mahoney (FL)
Maloney (NY)
Markey
Marshall
Matsui
McCarthy (NY)
McCollum (MN)
McCrery
McDermott
McGovern
McHugh
McKeon
McNerney
McNulty
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Melancon
Miller (NC)
Miller, Gary
Miller, George
Mollohan
Moore (KS)
Moore (WI)
Moran (VA)
Murphy (CT)
Murphy, Patrick
Murtha
Nadler
Neal (MA)
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Pallone
Pelosi
Perlmutter
Peterson (PA)
Pickering
Pomeroy
Porter
Price (NC)
Pryce (OH)
Putnam
Radanovich
Rahall
Rangel
Regula
Reyes
Reynolds
Richardson
Rogers (AL)
Rogers (KY)
Ross
Ruppersberger
Ryan (OH)
Ryan (WI)
Sarbanes
Saxton
Schakowsky
Schwartz
Sessions
Sestak
Shays
Simpson
Sires
Skelton
Slaughter
Smith (TX)
Smith (WA)
Snyder
Souder
Space
Speier
Spratt
Tancredo
Tanner
Tauscher
Towns
Tsongas
Upton
Van Hollen
Velázquez
Walden (OR)
Walsh (NY)
Wasserman Schultz
Waters
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Weldon (FL)
Wexler
Wilson (NM)
Wilson (OH)
Wilson (SC)
Wolf

---- NOES 228 ---

Abercrombie
Aderholt
Akin
Alexander
Altmire
Baca
Bachmann
Barrett (SC)
Barrow
Bartlett (MD)
Barton (TX)
Becerra
Berkley
Biggert
Bilbray
Bilirakis
Bishop (UT)
Blackburn
Blumenauer
Boustany
Boyda (KS)
Braley (IA)
Broun (GA)
Brown-Waite, Ginny
Buchanan
Burgess
Burton (IN)
Butterfield
Buyer
Capito
Carney
Carson
Carter
Castor
Cazayoux
Chabot
Chandler
Childers
Clay
Cleaver
Coble
Conaway
Conyers
Costello
Courtney
Cuellar
Culberson
Cummings
Davis (KY)
Davis, David
Davis, Lincoln
Deal (GA)
DeFazio
Delahunt
Dent
Diaz-Balart, L.
Diaz-Balart, M.
Doggett
Doolittle
Drake
Duncan
Edwards (MD)
English (PA)
Fallin
Feeney
Filner
Flake
Forbes
Fortenberry
Foxx
Franks (AZ)
Frelinghuysen
Gallegly
Garrett (NJ)
Gerlach
Giffords
Gillibrand
Gingrey
Gohmert
Goode
Goodlatte
Graves
Green, Al
Green, Gene
Grijalva
Hall (TX)
Hastings (WA)
Hayes
Heller
Hensarling
Herseth Sandlin
Hill
Hinchey
Hirono
Hodes
Hoekstra
Holden
Hulshof
Hunter
Inslee
Issa
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Jefferson
Johnson (GA)
Johnson (IL)
Johnson, Sam
Jones (NC)
Jordan
Kagen
Kaptur
Keller
Kilpatrick
King (IA)
Kingston
Knollenberg
Kucinich
Kuhl (NY)
Lamborn
Lampson
Latham
LaTourette
Latta
Lee
Lewis (GA)
Linder
Lipinski
LoBiondo
Lucas
Lynch
Mack
Manzullo
Marchant
Matheson
McCarthy (CA)
McCaul (TX)
McCotter
McHenry
McIntyre
McMorris Rodgers
Mica
Michaud
Miller (FL)
Miller (MI)
Mitchell
Moran (KS)
Murphy, Tim
Musgrave
Myrick
Napolitano
Neugebauer
Nunes
Ortiz
Pascrell
Pastor
Paul
Payne
Pearce
Pence
Peterson (MN)
Petri
Pitts
Platts
Poe
Price (GA)
Ramstad
Rehberg
Reichert
Renzi
Rodriguez
Rogers (MI)
Rohrabacher
Ros-Lehtinen
Roskam
Rothman
Roybal-Allard
Royce
Rush
Salazar
Sali
Sánchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Scalise
Schiff
Schmidt
Scott (GA)
Scott (VA)
Sensenbrenner
Serrano
Shadegg
Shea-Porter
Sherman
Shimkus
Shuler
Shuster
Smith (NE)
Smith (NJ)
Solis
Stark
Stearns
Stupak
Sullivan
Sutton
Taylor
Terry
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Thornberry
Tiahrt
Tiberi
Tierney
Turner
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Visclosky
Walberg
Walz (MN)
Wamp
Watson
Welch (VT)
Westmoreland
Whitfield (KY)
Wittman (VA)
Woolsey
Wu
Yarmuth
Young (AK)
Young (FL)

---- NOT VOTING 1 ---

Weller

Themightytom · Post by **Themightytom** » 2008-09-29 04:15pm

REALLY??? McCain didn't actually vote after all of that fluff, and the more current outgassing about how the Democrats "put politics first" and he didn't even vote???

Can someone with a background in Economics tell me why it wouldn't have been a good idea to just allocate a large chunk of the random 700B to buying up properties in danger of foreclosure, and restructuring mortgages so that home"owners" have a realistic chance of paying their loans back, and they are paying the government back to boot? if a dead housing market and the combination of corporate greed and buyer stupidity caused this mess, and continue to cause this mess, wouldn't have been a good idea to put on a tourniquet?

Count Chocula · Post by **Count Chocula** » 2008-09-29 04:17pm

Annnd more news:

AP
Fed makes billions available to battle crisis
Monday September 29, 2:33 pm ET
By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer
Fed makes billions available to battle credit crisis; pledges to act as needed

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Federal Reserve and foreign central banks agreed to pump billions of dollars into the global financial system Monday to unlock tight lending that threatens to unhinge the U.S. economy.

The Fed said the action is intended to "expand significantly" the cash available to financial institutions in an effort to relieve to the worst credit crisis since the Great Depression. In taking the action, the Fed cited "continued strains" in the demand for short-term funding.

Central banks will continue to work closely and are prepared to take "appropriate steps as needed" to ease the crisis and get banks lending again, the Fed said.

On Wall Street stocks dropped sharply even after the Fed's announcement. At one point in the afternoon, the Dow Jones industrials plunged more than 700 points after the House voted down a massive financial rescue package.

Under one new step, the Fed will boost the amount of 84-day cash loans available to U.S. banks. The Fed is increasing the amount to $75 billion, up from the current $25 billion starting on Oct. 6. Banks bid on a slice of the loans at an auction.

That move will triple the supply of 84-day loans to $225 billion, from $75 billion, the Fed said.

Meanwhile, the Fed will continue to make $75 billion worth of shorter, 28-day loans available to banks.

All told, the total amount of cash loans -- 84-day and 28-day -- available to banks will double to $300 billion from $150 billion, the Fed said.

Moreover, the Fed made an extra $330 billion available to other central banks. That boosted to $620 billion the total amount available to the central bank through currency "swap" arrangements, where dollars are traded for their currencies. That total is up from $290 billion previously being made available through such arrangements.

The Bank of Canada, the Bank of England, the Bank of Japan, the European Central Bank, the Swiss National Bank and the central banks of Denmark, Norway, Australia and Sweden are involved in those swap arrangements.

"We are experiencing a massive credit implosion," said T.J. Marta, a fixed-income strategist at RBC Capital Markets.

The move comes as the U.S. financial meltdown's tendrils have ensnared banks in Britain, the Benelux and Germany.

By pledging to provide "a very large" cash infusion, the Fed hopes the actions will "reassure financial market participants."

The Fed action came hours before the House defeated a $700 billion financial bailout plan, ignoring urgent pleas by President Bush and Bernanke to move swiftly.

The plan was designed to break through a dangerous credit clog that has threatened to freeze up the entire financial system and throw the economy into a recession. At the heart of the plan, the government would buy bad mortgages and other dodgy debts held by banks and other financial institutions. By getting those rotten assets off their books, financial institutions should be in a better position to raise capital and boost lending, supporters contend.

(emphasis added)

If the Fed has this capability, why the hell would a bailout plan be proposed in the first place? Goddamn, there's most of the stated amount of the bailout right there! I'm starting to sense another motive....Stuart, can I borrow a tinfoil hat from Armaggedon? A nice Western-style, please.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2008-09-29 04:19pm

Themightytom wrote:REALLY??? McCain didn't actually vote after all of that fluff, and the more current outgassing about how the Democrats "put politics first" and he didn't even vote???

Why would Senator McCain vote for a House bill?

Kodiak · Post by **Kodiak** » 2008-09-29 04:20pm

Themightytom wrote:REALLY??? McCain didn't actually vote after all of that fluff, and the more current outgassing about how the Democrats "put politics first" and he didn't even vote???

This was a house vote. McCain and Obama are in the Senate.

Count Chocula · Post by **Count Chocula** » 2008-09-29 04:20pm

Themightytom wrote:

REALLY??? McCain didn't actually vote after all of that fluff, and the more current outgassing about how the Democrats "put politics first" and he didn't even vote???

Both McCain and Obama, being senators, are off the hook vote-wise. They can spin coulda-shoulda-woulda however they want..

Ekiqa · Post by **Ekiqa** » 2008-09-29 04:22pm

Tribun wrote:Sorry for another post, this just in.
Contrast it to McCain's reaction:
His reaction

How can the guy say with a strait face that it was Obama's and the Dem's fault, when the majority of them voted for it?

Count Chocula · Post by **Count Chocula** » 2008-09-29 04:22pm

Damn! I'm not piling on, phongn and Kodiak beat me to the "Submit" button.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2008-09-29 04:24pm

Themightytom wrote:REALLY??? McCain didn't actually vote after all of that fluff, and the more current outgassing about how the Democrats "put politics first" and he didn't even vote???

John McCain is a member of the United States Senate. This vote was conducted in the United States House of Representatives.

Also, 1) only one question mark per sentence is necessary, 2) every sentence starts with a capital letter, and 3) pick a tense and stick with it.

Ekiqa · Post by **Ekiqa** » 2008-09-29 04:28pm

Count Chocula wrote:If the Fed has this capability, why the hell would a bailout plan be proposed in the first place? Goddamn, there's most of the stated amount of the bailout right there! I'm starting to sense another motive....Stuart, can I borrow a tinfoil hat from Armaggedon? A nice Western-style, please.

Because the Treasury wanted more power?

Where do you think the guys who are going out of power in Washington are going to do next?

They're gonna get jobs for the banks that they bailed out.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2008-09-29 04:30pm

The Fed probably wanted to avoid pumping another $600+ billion into the world economy, with inflation a concern.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-09-29 04:35pm

General Zod wrote:
Tribun wrote:Sorry for another post, this just in.
Contrast it to McCain's reaction:
His reaction
This makes it more obvious than ever that his stunt last week was a transparent publicity grab. Apparently it's not important enough for him to stop campaigning to help fix the crisis now that there's no debates immediately scheduled.

Yeah, the people McCain was supposedly leading and wringing in yesterday, according to had lemmings' bragging, killed the bill, and that's Obama's fault? Because he didn't suspend his campaign? Drop the show, McCain, razzle-dazzle failed.