The Great Chinese Milk Scandal

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Post by mr friendly guy »

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:
ray245 wrote:I hope that the relationship china enjoy with the current government can be maintained.
WTF are you going on about, you fucking moron!? What exactly does the milk poisoning have to do with Taiwan's relationship to the ChiComGov? Anything at all!?
ray may have said plenty of stupid things in the past, but what is so silly about this when you consider

a) Since the return of the Guomintang to power Taiwan has pushed for better relationship with the mainland and

b) you don't think this would effect relationships between any two countries in a negative aspect, I mean the seller only sold contaminated stuff to the buyer.
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Post by Grand Moff Yenchin »

PainRack wrote:Interestingly, does Moff Yechin have any links about the current Taiwanese business coalition that's protesting for compensation for the losses they're suffering?
Sadly most of the news I see now are "there's no route for compensation". There was a protest from a local bakery union to the local government merely complaining that the melamine scare has caused their business to fall near bankrupt and they were pleading for exempt of sales taxes. I couldn't find the news on the web. (It was on TV)

Besides that, almost every level of the food industry is complaining that they're victims. Logically this means that the Taiwanese Government should at last try to ask for compensation from the Chinese companies. But no...so far governmental officials, as well as Mr. Ma are still doing their cocksucking act. Again. :roll:

Here's an example. We bothered to send a group with no intentions for our people to Beijing. And according to news today, they couldn't even provide a simple "Yes/No" answer on whether the Chinese Duqing Company had excessive melamine or not.

==

To answer various topics on the Strait relationships. I would say that this is a good example of how bad Mr. Ma's Chinese commerce policy is. He relies too much on China and makes empty promises as well as cocksucks to China. He seems to have no sense on at least some prevention of over-reliance.

So far after he has opened up flights between the straits, he was expecting 3000 people per day from China, bringing in IIRC 60billion. Until now the actual number is around 200 people per week. He's expecting China to save our stock market, however, China' market is having its own problems and our officials seem to be neglecting this fact.
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Post by RedImperator »

Einhander's shit split and dumped to the HoS.
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Post by ray245 »

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:
PainRack wrote:Interestingly, does Moff Yechin have any links about the current Taiwanese business coalition that's protesting for compensation for the losses they're suffering?
Sadly most of the news I see now are "there's no route for compensation". There was a protest from a local bakery union to the local government merely complaining that the melamine scare has caused their business to fall near bankrupt and they were pleading for exempt of sales taxes. I couldn't find the news on the web. (It was on TV)

Besides that, almost every level of the food industry is complaining that they're victims. Logically this means that the Taiwanese Government should at last try to ask for compensation from the Chinese companies. But no...so far governmental officials, as well as Mr. Ma are still doing their cocksucking act. Again. :roll:

Here's an example. We bothered to send a group with no intentions for our people to Beijing. And according to news today, they couldn't even provide a simple "Yes/No" answer on whether the Chinese Duqing Company had excessive melamine or not.

==

To answer various topics on the Strait relationships. I would say that this is a good example of how bad Mr. Ma's Chinese commerce policy is. He relies too much on China and makes empty promises as well as cocksucks to China. He seems to have no sense on at least some prevention of over-reliance.

So far after he has opened up flights between the straits, he was expecting 3000 people per day from China, bringing in IIRC 60billion. Until now the actual number is around 200 people per week. He's expecting China to save our stock market, however, China' market is having its own problems and our officials seem to be neglecting this fact.
On the other hand, isolating ties with a huge economic market isn't going to help, which is why the DPP wants. That isn't going to help taiwan if it decides to ignore one of the biggest trading partners.

It is annoying to have a country where the major political difference is closer or lesser ties with china.

Ma should invest heavily in china, although the golden opportunity has passed, when taiwan was governed by the DPP and Chen.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

ray245 wrote:On the other hand, isolating ties with a huge economic market isn't going to help, which is why the DPP wants. That isn't going to help taiwan if it decides to ignore one of the biggest trading partners.

It is annoying to have a country where the major political difference is closer or lesser ties with china.

Ma should invest heavily in china, although the golden opportunity has passed, when taiwan was governed by the DPP and Chen.
I think you are sorely underestimating the average Taiwanese's national pride. And yes, I think you have read too much Straits Times. Try interacting with a few Taiwanese. To many of them, Ma's constant kowtowing is making Taiwan look like some sucker who's beholden to China.

And no, the Straits Times wouldn't bother highlight that, especially after the muckup by Lee Hsien Loong and that damnable Lee Kuan Yew's singing of praises everytime he visits China.
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Post by ray245 »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
ray245 wrote:On the other hand, isolating ties with a huge economic market isn't going to help, which is why the DPP wants. That isn't going to help taiwan if it decides to ignore one of the biggest trading partners.

It is annoying to have a country where the major political difference is closer or lesser ties with china.

Ma should invest heavily in china, although the golden opportunity has passed, when taiwan was governed by the DPP and Chen.
I think you are sorely underestimating the average Taiwanese's national pride. And yes, I think you have read too much Straits Times. Try interacting with a few Taiwanese. To many of them, Ma's constant kowtowing is making Taiwan look like some sucker who's beholden to China.

And no, the Straits Times wouldn't bother highlight that, especially after the muckup by Lee Hsien Loong and that damnable Lee Kuan Yew's singing of praises everytime he visits China.
Well, first of all, my mother is from Taiwan, other than that, I know tons of Taiwanese living in singapore, my mom's friend and so on. Quite a number of them do support closer economic ties with china.

However, it seems to me that too many Taiwanese that I know, is more concerned with political scandals than political issues.

I mean come on; you can't expect the CCP to work well with the DPP do you?

The only party that the CCP will work with right now is the KMT and even then, china seems to be forced as the KMT is considered to be the lesser of two evils.

And I don't follow the straits times in regards to taiwanese issues anyway, since I have Starhub cable with a few taiwanese news channels and the internet to find articles.

And personally, I feel that a lot of Taiwanese has a ridiculously high expectation of Ma in the first place. Come on, quite a few of them want their economy to recover in 3 months time, and expect Taiwan to boom in the middle of a freaking global recession.

And please, who is the people rejocing when Ma won elections? The majority want to have closer ties with china, mainly due to them thinking closer ties with china is going to solve every problem they face.

Also, I have always felt that the DPP is more conservative in its policy and having a higher focus on local issues, and neglecting the international aspects. After all, most of its supporters come from the slightly more traditional part of taiwan, those who scream good old taiwanese tradition over others every single time.
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Post by Grand Moff Yenchin »

Ma's policies are also offending a notable portion of KMT supporters. It's not like only DPP is against cocksucking the mainland. There are KMT members who'd rather maintain Strait relationships as they were.

Ma had been releasing a bunch of "open Strait" policies throughout the 130 days after being the president. Guess what? The Taiwanese stock dropped almost the most in Asia, right next to (suprise) Shanghai Stock. Foreign investments are being withdrawn from Taiwan, which is consistent with them withdrawing from China's market.

And although world economics are part of the reason, compared to other nations, Ma has no idea of how to stop the drop besides opening up more and waiting for China's investments. (Could a failing market save another failing market?)

Like I said in the Olympics thread, there is a difference between doing business and begging/cocksucking for money.
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Post by ray245 »

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:Ma's policies are also offending a notable portion of KMT supporters. It's not like only DPP is against cocksucking the mainland. There are KMT members who'd rather maintain Strait relationships as they were.

Ma had been releasing a bunch of "open Strait" policies throughout the 130 days after being the president. Guess what? The Taiwanese stock dropped almost the most in Asia, right next to (suprise) Shanghai Stock. Foreign investments are being withdrawn from Taiwan, which is consistent with them withdrawing from China's market.

And although world economics are part of the reason, compared to other nations, Ma has no idea of how to stop the drop besides opening up more and waiting for China's investments. (Could a failing market save another failing market?)

Like I said in the Olympics thread, there is a difference between doing business and begging/cocksucking for money.
On the other hand, the DPP cannot even offer anything concrete for the economy, other than saying it will improve business for the farming industry.

I mean come on, the DPP has squandered a chance to booast the economy and have trade ties with china that can actually expect massive payment.

Hell, if the KMT offered any other canidate beside Ma, I think it is reasonable to say the DPP will maintain power. And after eight years of sqaundering the economy of taiwan, I don't think the DPP can manage the current economic trouble well.
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Post by weemadando »

In the most recent news I've heard Cadbury's is now officially on the contaminated list for multiple products of theirs.

That's what you get for moving your manufacturing to China, away from such reputable places as Tasmania.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

ray245 wrote:Well, first of all, my mother is from Taiwan, other than that, I know tons of Taiwanese living in singapore, my mom's friend and so on. Quite a number of them do support closer economic ties with china.
Is your mother a first generation immigrant? First generation immigrants and the subsequent generation immigrants think a lot differently. The latter wants closer ties yes, but not to this extent of cocksucking.
However, it seems to me that too many Taiwanese that I know, is more concerned with political scandals than political issues.

I mean come on; you can't expect the CCP to work well with the DPP do you?
Look, why should the people not care about political scandals, when the said scandals show their politicians are lying scum bags? Or is the concept completely alien to you?
The only party that the CCP will work with right now is the KMT and even then, china seems to be forced as the KMT is considered to be the lesser of two evils.
And do you realise this is a divide and conquer tactic?
And personally, I feel that a lot of Taiwanese has a ridiculously high expectation of Ma in the first place. Come on, quite a few of them want their economy to recover in 3 months time, and expect Taiwan to boom in the middle of a freaking global recession.

And please, who is the people rejocing when Ma won elections? The majority want to have closer ties with china, mainly due to them thinking closer ties with china is going to solve every problem they face.

Also, I have always felt that the DPP is more conservative in its policy and having a higher focus on local issues, and neglecting the international aspects. After all, most of its supporters come from the slightly more traditional part of taiwan, those who scream good old taiwanese tradition over others every single time.
Oh sure, but hey, Ma was promising that he would fix the economy, only to be caught in Mexico saying he can't. The economy hasn't been doing well for the last 2 or so years. And what's more, he hasn't so much as, as Yenchin says, put forward any economic plan whatsoever beyond opening trade links with China. Do you think opening trade links alone will stimulate an economy in doldrums for many years? Not to mention, opening these trade links merely makes it easier for Taiwanese companies to bring their factories to China, while on the Chinese side, they have yet to find incentive to come to Taiwan.
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Post by CaptHawkeye »

Adrian Laguna wrote:China right now is a bit like the Gilded Age in the United States, but with a considerably more modern technical base that allows for more sophisticated shenanigans. Back in the ol' days it was just rat faeces in the sausages and hamburgers.
That's the same parrallel I drew, and it unfortunantly seems to fit. Systemic corruption and obscenely negligent production and safety standards are common in Chinese industry. Throw in extreme abuse of worker's rights and China more or less is in a political 1870s. I guess this is something to expect whenever a country experiences such rapid industrial boom that its politics don't keep up.

Of course this isn't to say they're the only target of blame. After all, it's western corporations that use Chinese Industry as a cheap source of labor despite being fully aware of its lowest-common-denominator production methods. What's that? Corporations are only motivated by the over riding goal to make a profit with as minimal expenditure as possible? Who knew right? :)
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Post by ray245 »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Oh sure, but hey, Ma was promising that he would fix the economy, only to be caught in Mexico saying he can't. The economy hasn't been doing well for the last 2 or so years. And what's more, he hasn't so much as, as Yenchin says, put forward any economic plan whatsoever beyond opening trade links with China. Do you think opening trade links alone will stimulate an economy in doldrums for many years? Not to mention, opening these trade links merely makes it easier for Taiwanese companies to bring their factories to China, while on the Chinese side, they have yet to find incentive to come to Taiwan.
Ya sure, Ma did promise to fix the economy, and failed to make any major change to the economy. I mean come on, you think that the only other canidate, Frank Hsieh is able to fix the economy?

Come on, his only platform during the race was saying Ma should not bet everything on china, yet at the same time, Frank did not offer any other alternative solution.

And Taiwan in regards to political scandals, Taiwan do have too many scandals going on, one after another. In the end, what happened was people start to treat politicans like celebrity. Until recently, the only politicans in both parties are concerned with is finding more scandals, and the side who has more scandals will lose the elections.

And in the current sistuation in Taiwan right now, no one seems to be able to fix the economy. The only major change a party is able to push is closer ties with china and nothing else. The opposition simply oppose closer ties with china and nothing else as well.

At this rate, Taiwan might as well drag Chiang Ching-kuo from his grave and offer something more solid.
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Post by Grand Moff Yenchin »

ray245 wrote: On the other hand, the DPP cannot even offer anything concrete for the economy, other than saying it will improve business for the farming industry.

I mean come on, the DPP has squandered a chance to booast the economy and have trade ties with china that can actually expect massive payment.

Hell, if the KMT offered any other canidate beside Ma, I think it is reasonable to say the DPP will maintain power. And after eight years of sqaundering the economy of taiwan, I don't think the DPP can manage the current economic trouble well.
DPP might have bad economic policies, but without reliance on China, Taiwan would not drop as rapid as the current state. Also the DPP would at least have responsible officials instead of care-free ones such as the current cabinet.

A good example to compare is the recent incident during the Sinlaku Typhoon. A bridge broke and 6 people were killed when it happened. It was in critical condition but no one set up roadblocks during the typhoon. The report on the reason for the accident cited "natural disasters". One executive official was punished but no policy maker held himself responsible.

In comparison, Chen's Minister of Transportion resigned after the Ba-Zhang River incident where some people were stuck in a sand bar and no one came to rescue due to "regulations", which resulted in their deaths.

The rise of Ma has its trends of him being kind of like the "savior" for the KMT. He looks good, he's hypocritical but he hides it well, he takes no responsibility, and the pan-Blue media (which dominates the Taiwanese media) blows his dick while they take every chance to assrape the Greens.
Ya sure, Ma did promise to fix the economy, and failed to make any major change to the economy. I mean come on, you think that the only other canidate, Frank Hsieh is able to fix the economy?
As above.
Come on, his only platform during the race was saying Ma should not bet everything on china, yet at the same time, Frank did not offer any other alternative solution.
Actually, Frank is more moderate on Strait issues. The worst or best we could get from the China bubble is a slower pace of the current crisis.
And Taiwan in regards to political scandals, Taiwan do have too many scandals going on, one after another. In the end, what happened was people start to treat politicans like celebrity. Until recently, the only politicans in both parties are concerned with is finding more scandals, and the side who has more scandals will lose the elections.
And who started this craze? The Blues of course, because they could not admit and get over their defeat on 2 presidential elections, so they start appealing the population to attack shit in which they've been doing in the past. And the pan-Blue media fan the fires as well (heck, the Blue political talk shows such as 2100 are still focusing on the scandals while we're drinking melamine milk).

Scandal muckraking used to stay on politician level with the people merely complaining or providing info. Now it's a national sport.
And in the current sistuation in Taiwan right now, no one seems to be able to fix the economy. The only major change a party is able to push is closer ties with china and nothing else. The opposition simply oppose closer ties with china and nothing else as well.
With a falling Chinese economy, dragged down reputation in export products (various nations are beginning to treat "Made in Taiwan" dairy related products as "Made in China"), dragged down personnel quality (with all due respect, Ma is going to recognize Chinese academic degrees and allowing them to take Taiwanese national exams), and other healthy foreign investments getting scared off due to Ma's China policies, I fail to see how closer ties is going to help Taiwan.
At this rate, Taiwan might as well drag Chiang Ching-kuo from his grave and offer something more solid.
No he won't, because it was his cabinet that worked.
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Re: The Great Chinese Milk Scandal

Post by ray245 »

Taiwan says melamine found in Nestle milk powders By GILLIAN WONG, Associated Press Writer
16 minutes ago



TAIPEI, Taiwan - Taiwan's health minister said Thursday its tests have found minor doses of the industrial chemical melamine in milk powders produced in China by Switzerland-based Nestle.

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The announcement came a day after a dairy at the heart of the tainted milk scandal in China was targeted in a lawsuit by the parents of a toddler who developed kidney stones after drinking infant formula with melamine, an attorney said.

Taiwan Health Minister Yeh Ching-chuan said milk powders that Nestle produced in Heilongjiang Province in northeastern China were found to contain between 0.3 and 0.85 parts per million of melamine.

"Such minor doses of melamine will not affect people's health ... but we will take them off shelves according to our recommended procedures," he said.

Liang Chia-jui, a Nestle spokesman in Taipei, said the company will agree to the recall. Nestle has taken out half-page newspaper advertisements to assure Taiwanese consumers of the safety of its milk products over the past two weeks.

Yeh said Taiwan will confer with food safety experts from the United States, Japan, Europe and the World Health Organization to decide on whether to permit milk products containing traces of the chemical.

"We need to have a rational discussion on the matter because it also affects other countries," he said.

Melamine-contaminated milk has killed four babies and sickened more than 50,000 children in mainland China.

Liang said melamine was never added to any Nestle milk products as an additive, pointing out that food experts maintain that traces of the chemical are widely found in the food chain. He insisted the milk powders produced in Heilongjiang are safe.

Taiwanese authorities have launched a sweeping inspection of milk powders and related products, including instant coffee, milk tea and baked goods. More than 160 products containing Chinese milk and vegetable-based proteins have been removed from stores.

The Chinese milk scare and the economic losses have led to renewed Taiwanese animosity toward rival China. The two sides split amid civil war in 1949 and Beijing still claims the island a part of its territory.

A team of Taiwanese food experts met with their Chinese counterparts in Beijing over the weekend and decided to set up a mechanism to quickly inform the other side about any food safety problems.

The lawsuit filed in China is believed to be the first civil lawsuit filed in response to the contamination of milk, yogurt and other Chinese dairy products with melamine.

Although product liability lawsuits have become more common in recent years, attorney Ji Cheng said he would not know until next week if the court in Henan province would take the case.

"The court will make the decision whether to accept this case after the National Day holiday," he said.

According to the lawsuit, the boy was fed baby formula made by Sanlu Group Co. from the time of his birth, said the report by Caijing, a leading Chinese business magazine.

The child's parents, who come from central China's Henan province, filed a lawsuit in a court in Zhenping county seeking $22,000 in compensation from Sanlu for medical, travel and other expenses incurred after the child developed kidney stones, the magazine said.

The Zhenping court has yet to accept the case.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081002/ap_ ... inted_milk


Sigh...Einhander, I told you relationship on both sides will be affected...

Is it too much to ask, and hope that the ties between China and Taiwan can be something like the relationship between Turkey and Greece?
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Re: The Great Chinese Milk Scandal

Post by Grand Moff Yenchin »

Gillian Wong wrote: Yeh said Taiwan will confer with food safety experts from the United States, Japan, Europe and the World Health Organization to decide on whether to permit milk products containing traces of the chemical.
Something they should've already done when the King Car company honestly admitted that they had melamine contaminated products. So far this honest company has lost 500 million because they had the guts to be honest and destroy their products. Which had Duqing-based milk powder.

In return, after Duqing openly denied they had melamine, Mr. Yeh set up a private investigation on King Car's source of milk powder, seemingly ignorant of the burden of proof King Car had already provided. Like a company would lie on such an issue and lose 500 million as well as risk its reputation :roll:

Using a popular lingo on the Taiwanese and Chinese boards. King Car was a victim of "harmonizing".
The two sides split amid civil war in 1949 and Beijing still claims the island a part of its territory.
Sort of off topic: on "Two sides split"

A team of Taiwanese food experts met with their Chinese counterparts in Beijing over the weekend and decided to set up a mechanism to quickly inform the other side about any food safety problems.
Nice to see how Ma's Strait policies work here. So far has any country in the world done something like this? No, because they do the most straightfoward: ban the products until safety is ensured. Does Ma honestly think that the Chinese would sincerely inform us on their "black-hearted" products? :lol:

The only result of this act, is that now Ma has enhanced the impression that Taiwan is relying on China on such issues.
ray245 wrote: Is it too much to ask, and hope that the ties between China and Taiwan can be something like the relationship between Turkey and Greece?
At least not before Great China Chauvinism finally dies out on both sides.
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Re: The Great Chinese Milk Scandal

Post by ray245 »

Neither do I want to see Taiwan becoming more socially conservative, after so many taiwanese continuously to claim the superiority of native Taiwanese/ small town (village) values over anyone kind of modern values.

The more you want to declare a taiwanese state, it will encourage more people to find more traditions to be proud of (nevermind if all of those traditions comes from china anyway).

I do hope that the DDP can at the least play up the grey area in regards to the one china policy, and have some sort of indirect poliitcal connections and ties on both sides of the straits, that has been build up by Ma.

Although I still have no idea why singaporeans want singapore to become like Taiwan, in regards to their politics, constantly shouting new scandals as compared to getting any major thing done.
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Re: The Great Chinese Milk Scandal

Post by Grand Moff Yenchin »

ray245 wrote:Neither do I want to see Taiwan becoming more socially conservative, after so many taiwanese continuously to claim the superiority of native Taiwanese/ small town (village) values over anyone kind of modern values.
The more you want to declare a taiwanese state, it will encourage more people to find more traditions to be proud of (nevermind if all of those traditions comes from china anyway).
[/quote]

Excuse me, what values? And I've yet to see this sort of claim. Funny that thanks to the Japanese, regardless of how they thought of Taiwan, the island was far more modernized than China by the time. Taiwanese values is more than just "Chinese based" as well as "small village". You do know that Taipei City was settled far before the KMT came, right?

Contrary to Ma and KMT's wet dreams of China, the DPP at least knows to seek help from Japan, America, where the so-called "modern values" come from.
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