T:SCC 2x04: "Allison from Palmdale"

[Peptuck]

a) Was Cameron lying to Allison? Did some terminators really want peaceful coexistence with the resistance?

This one strikes me as beng a strong possibility, as Uncle Bob did point out that SkyNet disables Terminators' higher thought processes to keep them on track. I would not at all be surprised if some Terminators went rogue. Cameron herself is definitely showing indications that she's heading that way.

b) Was Allison merely a follower or something more to John in the Future?

I'm leaning toward "something more," because Cameron specified that John "chose" Allison "for a reason".....whatever that was. It would also explain why Cameron was going to such lengths to study Allison, if she needed to be able to mimic her very well in order to get close to John, and if John knew Allison personally, it might have affected his choice to keep Cameron around after TechCom captured her.

This may tie in with my theory that Cameron created an Allison "program" to follow, literally becoming Allison to infiltrate TechCom.

c) How did Cameron experience Allison's escape attempts?

I'm aiming for a combination of recordings and descriptions she would have gotten from Allison herself, and adding that to her Allison program. It certainly looks like the machines were letting Allison escape, if only to guage how she acted in stressful situations, which would help them compile an accurate program to mimic her.

[Drooling Iguana]

Are we even certain that Cameron was ever reprogrammed? Could she simply be a rogue Terminator who went back in time of her own volition?

[Thanas]

This may tie in with my theory that Cameron created an Allison "program" to follow, literally becoming Allison to infiltrate TechCom.

Crazy speculation here: What if it is in fact her Allison program that overrides the Termination order or makes her defect? Maybe the mimikry is too perfect?

Also, we know that Cameron didn't go after Connor immediately. We know that Derek was being put through the wringer first. And know we also know why Cameron likes Chopin - Allison's mother did. With that in mind, her dancing in the last season is even more laden with symbolism than it previously was.

[Thanas]

Are we even certain that Cameron was ever reprogrammed? Could she simply be a rogue Terminator who went back in time of her own volition?

We are not certain she ever was reprogrammed, she does however claims to be.

Nevertheless, the fact that John trusted her enough to be the only one with direct access to his inner sanctum that we know of, plus the fact that she was able to walk the base freely and heavily armed to boot seem to be indications that somehow she did gain his trust.

Come to think of it, if Allison and John were really lovers, how messed up of a person is John Connor anyway? To keep a mimikri of his lover around...man, that is messed up beyond belief.

[Peptuck]

This may tie in with my theory that Cameron created an Allison "program" to follow, literally becoming Allison to infiltrate TechCom.

Crazy speculation here: What if it is in fact her Allison program that overrides the Termination order or makes her defect? Maybe the mimikry is too perfect?

Really, this is my pet theory too. It also might explain Cameron's actions throughout the first season, including some small but very significant scenes, like the flicker in her eyes when John is removing her chip and the death glare she gives Charley when he calls her a scary robot.

Who knows, Cameron may end up suffering a multiple personality disorder as the series progresses.

Come to think of it, if Allison and John were really lovers, how messed up of a person is John Connor anyway? To keep a mimikri of his lover around...man, that is messed up beyond belief.

Yeah, that's another theory I've got. It would certainly make a disturbing kind of sense.

[Thanas]

Another thing - if the next episode doesn't show John trying to get a good look at her chip, he is too stupid to live.

Who knows, Cameron may end up suffering a multiple personality disorder as the series progresses.

Hopefully not...there would be way too many echoes of River in there for my taste.

[Anguirus]

^ I don't recall River ever manifesting different personalities. They even made a bit of a joke out of that in the film.

We know that Derek was being put through the wringer first.

I'll have to watch "D&D" again, but was that where she got all those bracelets?

[Peptuck]

Another thing - if the next episode doesn't show John trying to get a good look at her chip, he is too stupid to live.

I'll honestly be surprised if he isn't checking her chip in one of the upcoming episodes, as he does mention he wants to check hers when he confronts her in the halfway house.

[Thanas]

^ I don't recall River ever manifesting different personalities. They even made a bit of a joke out of that in the film.

Yes, but don't tell me you can see the similarities here - psychotic girl who might go off at any minute and kicks ass. And if they go that route, she will of course exhibit character traits like River - inane commments and drastic mood swings.

Anyone remember that "bird" comment last episode?

I'll have to watch "D&D" again, but was that where she got all those bracelets?

No, Derek wasn't wearing any bracelet to begin with.

[Oskuro]

Come to think of it, if Allison and John were really lovers, how messed up of a person is John Connor anyway? To keep a mimikri of his lover around...man, that is messed up beyond belief.

Other possibility that occurs to me, is that thanks to the wonderful magic of screwing up with the timeline, the Future version of Jhon Connor already knows what's going to happen, and he might have "chosen" Allison because he knew she would lead to Cameron eventually.

The messed-up timeline could explain why Connor is such a great leader: He already knows what to do, knows he can reprogram Terminators, knows about the Time Displacement Device, and can anticipate many of Skynet's moves.

[Thanas]

^No, that would mean that future John Connor is in the same timeline as the current John Connor. Which he isn't, as stated by the pilot. And if we follow the logical implications of your theory, that would mean Connor is an even more inhuman bastard than he already is.

[Oskuro]

Well, he knowingly sent his own father back in time to die, so I'm not too sure about future Jhon's character. The flashback episode with Derek Reese did give me a weird vibe coming from future Connor's actions, but I guess we'll see (hopefully, I really hope all that talk about cancelation remains talk).

[Anarchist Bunny]

Well, he knowingly sent his own father back in time to die, so I'm not too sure about future Jhon's character. The flashback episode with Derek Reese did give me a weird vibe coming from future Connor's actions, but I guess we'll see (hopefully, I really hope all that talk about cancelation remains talk).

o_O

He sent his own father back in time to ASSURE HE WAS BORN! And if you try to claim that he could of sent his father back to knock his mother up and someone else to save her thats a giant risk. He knows growing up that his father dies saving his mom and creating him. Sending Kyle Reese 100% guarantees that Skynet won't kill him rather than mucky up the timeline.

Plus, and there seems to be a huge fucking issue with people not understanding that while you know something, it doesn't mean all the characters do. John Conner is very secretive about Kyle Reese being his father because Skynet has him as a slave for many years! Skynet knows that John Conner is the son of Sarah Conner, but not who the father is. If Skynet finds that out, it can kill Kyle at the workcamp before they escape and thus prevent John Conner's birth.

[Oskuro]

^ of course he did, but I feel it would still be a hard choice. Doing things for the greater good is not easy, and it certainly doesn't feel right when you have to do it cold-blooded, all I'm saying is that the war might have turned future Connor into a somewhat dark character, as war usually does to the best of people.

But of course, for me that's more interesting story-wise than having him be the perfect shiny savior of mankind, so I'm throwing a bit of my hopes for the show into my opinion here.

[Thanas]

^ of course he did, but I feel it would still be a hard choice. Doing things for the greater good is not easy, and it certainly doesn't feel right when you have to do it cold-blooded, all I'm saying is that the war might have turned future Connor into a somewhat dark character, as war usually does to the best of people.

But of course, for me that's more interesting story-wise than having him be the perfect shiny savior of mankind, so I'm throwing a bit of my hopes for the show into my opinion here.

Eh? He is the savior of mankind. There is no chance this show will screw with that and portray him as anything but.

[Thanas]

Also, with regards to cancellation - both io9 and entertainment today called it to be a complete fabrication, io9 even citing inside sources at Fox.

"The rumors are all speculative and never fact checked with the network or studio," says a Fox rep. Here's the actual situation: Fox has ordered 13 episodes of Sarah Connor season two, and those episodes are still in production. The network has not yet made a decision, one way or another, about whether to order the remaining nine episodes of the season, says the rep. It's not clear how soon this decision has to be made, but there's still some breathing room.

Season two of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, has made the folks at Fox TV very happy, dominating the adults 18-49 key demos.

[neoolong]

Yay! I can't wait for more episodes. The previews with John getting to do more stuff makes me excited.

[Oskuro]

Eh? He is the savior of mankind. There is no chance this show will screw with that and portray him as anything but.

All I meant is that he doesn't have to be a good guy to be the savior of mankind. Take for example Linda Hamilton's portrayal of Sarah Connor on T2, despite her noble intentions, she is in a dark place, wich, to me, makes her the most interesting character of the movie.

[Imperial Overlord]

John Connor is the leader of a war to prevent the extinction of the human race at the hands of genocidal army of machines commanded by an AI. He's undoubtedly had to make a number of really unpleasant decisions that sent good people to their deaths because he didn't see any better options. I imagine that by 2029 he's as tough as old shoe leather and has a lot of emotional scars.

As for what Cameron said to Allison about "some of us want peace", why believe that she told the truth? It's not impossible (it certainly would explain why Skynet turns off the Terminators ability to learn most of the time when it sends them on missions) but it seems more likely that it was just a lie to try and convince Allison to cooperate.

[Thanas]

As for what Cameron said to Allison about "some of us want peace", why believe that she told the truth? It's not impossible (it certainly would explain why Skynet turns off the Terminators ability to learn most of the time when it sends them on missions) but it seems more likely that it was just a lie to try and convince Allison to cooperate.

There are a lot of small hints that point towards a third AI faction - for example, look at Derek's imprisonment and interrogation in "Dungeons and Dragons". The building is far outside any Skynet complex and is guarded only by a single, outdated terminator model.

At the end, the resistance members are left with a hatchet to break free and escape, something that seems an unlikely move by either Skynet or the resistance. If it would be Skynet, why leave them alive after meeting their newest asset? If it would be the resistance and it somehow managed to dispatch the guard terminator and place the hatchet there, why not simply destroy the shackles and help them escape? In fact, it cannot be the resistance because they were very happy to see Derek again.

[Imperial Overlord]

There are a lot of small hints that point towards a third AI faction - for example, look at Derek's imprisonment and interrogation in "Dungeons and Dragons". The building is far outside any Skynet complex and is guarded only by a single, outdated terminator model.

It could be Skynet trying to orchestrate some complicated long term plot, but you are right it is suggestive of a third AI faction.

[Peptuck]

As for what Cameron said to Allison about "some of us want peace", why believe that she told the truth? It's not impossible (it certainly would explain why Skynet turns off the Terminators ability to learn most of the time when it sends them on missions) but it seems more likely that it was just a lie to try and convince Allison to cooperate.

There are a lot of small hints that point towards a third AI faction - for example, look at Derek's imprisonment and interrogation in "Dungeons and Dragons". The building is far outside any Skynet complex and is guarded only by a single, outdated terminator model.

At the end, the resistance members are left with a hatchet to break free and escape, something that seems an unlikely move by either Skynet or the resistance. If it would be Skynet, why leave them alive after meeting their newest asset? If it would be the resistance and it somehow managed to dispatch the guard terminator and place the hatchet there, why not simply destroy the shackles and help them escape? In fact, it cannot be the resistance because they were very happy to see Derek again.

I got the impression from the DVD commentary that this was supposed to be some kind of psychological warfare facility where they interrogated prisoners, and let them go just to screw with their heads. Cameron does ID the barcode that they marked Derek with as one from a SkyNet workcamp.

[Thanas]

I got the impression from the DVD commentary that this was supposed to be some kind of psychological warfare facility where they interrogated prisoners, and let them go just to screw with their heads.

That makes little sense, really. I mean, Skynet trying to let the prisoners go? What does it gain from that? Nothing. The guys weren't even tailed. Now, if I would be Skynet, I would only let crack resistance fighters get away so I can track them to their base. None of that happened.

Cameron does ID the barcode that they marked Derek with as one from a SkyNet workcamp.

I agree with you that that would be a point against my theory, yet Cameron is not really such a trustworthy source in the matter, given her and Derek's wordplay and utter hate for each other. Heck, she did nothing to help Derek and was all too happy with watching him die. And you cannot tell me that somebody who can accurately copy barcodes for a nuclear facility is incapable of performing a crude operation that a simple paramedic could perform succesfully.

[Singular Intellect]

And you cannot tell me that somebody who can accurately copy barcodes for a nuclear facility is incapable of performing a crude operation that a simple paramedic could perform succesfully.

Just what crazy logic makes you think the ability to replicate a barcode has any bearing on ability to perform any type of surgery, even a supposed relatively simple one?

Do you look at an artist who can impressively replicate someone's face on paper and therefore conclude they should be able to safely extract bullets from a dying gunshot victim?

[Thanas]

And you cannot tell me that somebody who can accurately copy barcodes for a nuclear facility is incapable of performing a crude operation that a simple paramedic could perform succesfully.

Just what crazy logic makes you think the ability to replicate a barcode has any bearing on ability to perform any type of surgery, even a supposed relatively simple one?

Do you look at an artist who can impressively replicate someone's face on paper and therefore conclude they should be able to safely extract bullets from a dying gunshot victim?

You seem to have missed where Cameron was revealed to be a robot. What skills doesn't she have that a paramedic has?