SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread III

[Shroom Man 777]

The Ohio class can go up to 24 knots submerged, though.



Yer Moms in construction.

[MKSheppard]

So I've sparked a SSAN arms race.

I Arms Races!

Some pertinent things to consider guys:

1.) It takes about 4-5 years to construct an OHIO scale submarine.

2.) May I highly suggest that you guys take one of your existing submarines out of service, and refit it with 1 x Universal Launch Silo and 1 x 800mm TT; so you can do weapons systems integrations and workups without having to wait for the YER MOMs to be built? It would really suck if you spent five years making YER MOM, and the moment it goes out on sea trials and tries to fire it's first 800mm "FUCK YOU" torpedo, a whole host of things go bad?

The above is why I didn't have 40" TT and giant 87" silos on all of my submarines; because I wanted to take my time with systems integration, and add only one new thing in each class...

[PeZook]

The Ohio class can go up to 24 knots submerged, though.

Yeah, but the Yer Mom doesn't have a pressurized water reactor.

1.) It takes about 4-5 years to construct an OHIO scale submarine.

The Yer Mom program started a while ago ; We paid for the in-construction subs in cold, hard points before the game started. Comissioning new yer moms will, of course, take that long.

2.) May I highly suggest that you guys take one of your existing submarines out of service, and refit it with 1 x Universal Launch Silo and 1 x 800mm TT; so you can do weapons systems integrations and workups without having to wait for the YER MOMs to be built? It would really suck if you spent five years making YER MOM, and the moment it goes out on sea trials and tries to fire it's first 800mm "FUCK YOU" torpedo, a whole host of things go bad?

We can assume we did that, and the Yer Mom itself is the first full-scale testbed of those systems. Hell, I'll just take one couple SSKs off my OOB and redesignate them as test subs for new wacky weapon systems.

The above is why I didn't have 40" TT and giant 87" silos on all of my submarines; because I wanted to take my time with systems integration, and add only one new thing in each class...

Well, yeah - it's not like we have a dozen Yer Moms running about

[MKSheppard]

Yeah, but the Yer Mom doesn't have a pressurized water reactor.

The cool thing about the Ohio is that it's a hybrid natural circulation/pressurized water reactor. At slow speeds; it uses natural circulation to move the water around; and as it's speed (and thus power requirements) rises, a pump kicks in to move the coolant around. Awesome no?

[PeZook]

Yeah, but the Yer Mom doesn't have a pressurized water reactor.

The cool thing about the Ohio is that it's a hybrid natural circulation/pressurized water reactor. At slow speeds; it uses natural circulation to move the water around; and as it's speed (and thus power requirements) rises, a pump kicks in to move the coolant around. Awesome no?

Well, shit. I thought about giving it this kind of propulsion, but thought "Nah, it's probably not feasible for some reason"



I guess I'll rewrite the post a bit

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

So I've sparked a SSAN arms race.

I Arms Races!

Some pertinent things to consider guys:

1.) It takes about 4-5 years to construct an OHIO scale submarine.

2.) May I highly suggest that you guys take one of your existing submarines out of service, and refit it with 1 x Universal Launch Silo and 1 x 800mm TT; so you can do weapons systems integrations and workups without having to wait for the YER MOMs to be built? It would really suck if you spent five years making YER MOM, and the moment it goes out on sea trials and tries to fire it's first 800mm "FUCK YOU" torpedo, a whole host of things go bad?

The above is why I didn't have 40" TT and giant 87" silos on all of my submarines; because I wanted to take my time with systems integration, and add only one new thing in each class...

This is why when we went with our Akula type SSGN, we stuck with standard torps, cavitation torpedoes and so forth. Nothing too weird to blow any of our subs up, just like what happened to the Kursk. What is new on our boat, are the 20 Mach 4 missiles designed for many fun things.

But why did the construction of the subs take so long? The Akulas didn't take that long to be finished.

P.S. PeZook, technically, the new CSR SSGNs are ... classified? The world isn't supposed to know they exist.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

TWO attacks? What was the other one?

Didn't he cut the damn cable? We might never have figured who did it, but OOC, we know someone did do it.

America's defense spending is around $540 billion. You're just shy of half of that, for a country that has a sixth of its GDP.

America's defense spending apparently saddles around 760 billion, and may or may not be the full picture, especially given that there are black budgets, etc.

The fact is that I've been pushing for the CCCP so we can all work together and pitch in in building weapons systems where everyone's defense industries can contribute irregardless of the systems are Western/NATO or Warsaw Pact equipment. It would be bad for me to just ditch my own national defense industries and start buying stuff made abroad, since my people would crucify me for that and that would be bad for the economy.

The trouble with your CCCP, was that at one point of time you ran off to talk with IRT about collaborations. Among the SNC, its dominant members regard the IRT with suspicion, and do our best not to be associated with them. More so about your willingness to share strategic technologies such as nuclear reactors and so forth. We are reluctant to share any strategic technologies that will end up in potential enemies' hands.

If we get the CCCP up and running, that means even if I buy Warpac equipment, the fact that the CCCP means all our defense companies are in on it means that the purchase will still profit my dudes (and yours) and so that means if you guys come up with any new weapons systems under the CCCP - I can just go "YES" and throw money at it.

The issue has never really been about profit. We just are uncomfortable sharing lots of strategic technologies.

Anyway, the fact that the Slavic National Conference is totally exclusive to you guys and leaves Shroomania out to lots of planning factors like, say, annexing the whole Border State regions, is really also doubleplusbad. We're feeling excluded and rather uneasy and from the looks of it, the Old Continent is barely a cohesive and unified front. Shroomania has extended the hand of friendship, but it's being rather coldly received. So, bleh. Maybe Shroomania should join the MESS (no, we won't).

Why are you even concerned with the Border State regions? It's so far away from Shroomania. Even if there's WWII hysteria, what happened in the Border Regions is messy enough for both me and Shady to clean up.

[Master_Baerne]

Lack of details is fine. Most of us wouldn't understand them anyway.

[Norseman]

Just FYI most of the slave trade in Frequesque ought to be local agents doing the rounding up and initial sales. Astaria is just one possible, though relatively profitable, market. In short the world isn't filled with Astarian slave merchants running around with butterfly nets, it's mostly locals who see an opportunity when their region declines into chaos.

[Shroom Man 777]

Didn't he cut the damn cable? We might never have figured who did it, but OOC, we know someone did do it.

Oh yeah, that asshole. Well... fuck him.

[Mang! What gives! I thought Shep and I were Super Best Friends, yet all the shit he fucked up were mine! That WHORE! I hate him forever.]

America's defense spending apparently saddles around 760 billion, and may or may not be the full picture, especially given that there are black budgets, etc.

Damn. Goddamn Wikipedia should never be used for research.

The trouble with your CCCP, was that at one point of time you ran off to talk with IRT about collaborations. Among the SNC, its dominant members regard the IRT with suspicion, and do our best not to be associated with them. More so about your willingness to share strategic technologies such as nuclear reactors and so forth. We are reluctant to share any strategic technologies that will end up in potential enemies' hands.

There's a difference between military and civilian collaborations. Our deal basically involved him selling missiles and bombs to everyone (like those Shepistan and OD suckers), and me selling blood transfusions and mannequin leg prosthetics and televisions and expensive shitty clothes.

In fact, I've been pretty wary with selling guns to potential enemies and most of my sales have been done to friendly nations in the Shroomanian Commonwealth. There is also Canissia, which is replacing lots of its fighters with F-16XLs, but that's mostly it.

Put a clause that none of the weapons developed in the CCCP may be given to other nations without approval, and I'll adhere to it - as I've said previously.

PeZook already ratifies it.

The issue has never really been about profit. We just are uncomfortable sharing lots of strategic technologies.

I haven't shared any of my strategic technologies to the IRT.

Why are you even concerned with the Border State regions? It's so far away from Shroomania. Even if there's WWII hysteria, what happened in the Border Regions is messy enough for both me and Shady to clean up.

It's right next door with PeZookia, a nation that Shroomania shares a Special Relationship with. Their collective pantaloons are turning brown over this.

[Karmic Knight]

So, Shroom, how much for the refitted Sturgeons?

Also, can I get the people doing the research there to watch/record the de-weaponing?

[Shroom Man 777]

Sure.

Um... let's just say that the price will be reasonably affordable to you, and profitable for me (by how much, I dunno... defitting and selling them would be better than letting them rust, or wasting cash to chop them up). *shrugs*

The cost will also cover training your crews to sail the ship in very homoerotic manners!

Let's just not mention the price. I mean, we're world leaders, we don't have to bother with every single minute detail in our world.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

There's a difference between military and civilian collaborations. Our deal basically involved him selling missiles and bombs to everyone (like those Shepistan and OD suckers), and me selling blood transfusions and mannequin leg prosthetics and televisions and expensive shitty clothes.

In fact, I've been pretty wary with selling guns to potential enemies and most of my sales have been done to friendly nations in the Shroomanian Commonwealth. There is also Canissia, which is replacing lots of its fighters with F-16XLs, but that's mostly it.

Put a clause that none of the weapons developed in the CCCP may be given to other nations without approval, and I'll adhere to it - as I've said previously.

PeZook already ratifies it.

Strategic technologies span a whole list. It isn't just about guns and what not. It also involves microprocessors, laser rods etc. The United States, Japan, and Europe have export controls designed to prohibit the propagation of advanced technologies. And yes, Byzantium has export controls for a very long list of technologies.

Like you selling Vineyards the demilitarized Sturgeons. None of us in the SNC would have sold that to them unless the Vineyards was a close strategic ally.

It's right next door with PeZookia, a nation that Shroomania shares a Special Relationship with. Their collective pantaloons are turning brown over this.

So? Why are you butting your head into someone else's affairs? And even if you did voice your concern, it will be noted, filed, and chucked somewhere in the bureaucracy.

[K. A. Pital]

That's good enough. A nice sub, much like my future SSGNs.

P.S. SSGN construction times are depending on industry scope. The USSR constructed them at a rather fast rate (2 years to complete a sub, with many possibly laid down).

[Shroom Man 777]

Strategic technologies span a whole list. It isn't just about guns and what not. It also involves microprocessors, laser rods etc. The United States, Japan, and Europe have export controls designed to prohibit the propagation of advanced technologies. And yes, Byzantium has export controls for a very long list of technologies.

If the US, Japan and Europe's export controls don't prevent them from selling videogames and shitty consumer electronics, then there's nothing stopping me from selling commercial products for a quick buck.

Langley, Sirnoth, the Vineyards and San Dorado are reputable nations. I'm not selling shit to Turd World shitholes, Velaria, or whatnot.

Like you selling Vineyards the demilitarized Sturgeons. None of us in the SNC would have sold that to them unless the Vineyards was a close strategic ally.

Vineyards is former Shroomanian Commonwealth and, thus, a Shroomanian ally in the Frequesue region.

Plus, Sturgeons are ships from the 1960s.

So? Why are you butting your head into someone else's affairs? And even if you did voice your concern, it will be noted, filed, and chucked somewhere in the bureaucracy.

Chucking the concerns of an OC power and Continental Defense Plan partner and ally into the bureaucracy where no one will hear of it is rather an impolite way of telling us that our thoughts and opinions count for zilch and sends mixed messages when you want us to help you guys in case the Japanistanis come over to kill everyone.

Am I butting my head into someone else's affairs? No. If Shroomania did a landgrab somewhere, like sending Christopher Walken in some middle of nowhere in Velaria, you'd have someone raising concern over it - like that Byzantine guy. If some nutjobs go around dicking in some WWII U-boat, you sent a submarine into Shroomanian territory - rather than filing a note of concern to be chucked somewhere in the bureaucracy.

Shroomania hasn't (officially) raised a peep of concern about the Shadows annexing the Border States. The annexation was a major military operation, your SNC people practically took three (or four?) nations over, and so some people should've been given forewarning over that. Shroomania is still in the Old Continent, is a major power in the region, and by all means we should've raised quite a lot more noise about your people going over our heads in a major military adventure without consulting us. You can say that the SNC owes Shroomania nothing, but if you want Shroomania to be in on your whole continental defensive plans, then keeping us in the black about your big plans is a major no-no.

Considering that the higher echelons of Shroomanian (and PeZookian) government have been going beyond the call of duty to play down the Shadows' annexation of the Border States, to the point of ignoring it, while going beyond the call of duty to make the goddamn communists resemble something like actual-factual human beings in the eyes of the Shroomanian public... it would be mighty nice if you help us get that observer status in the SNC.

BTW, We are building B-1 bombers and SSGNs precisely so if (and when) the Japanistanis come for the Old Continent - if they come after us, then we will have something to hit them back with.


[You don't want me to consider popping my defense budget back to 1% (or something) and sitting out any possible nuclear war to welcome the winners - be they MESS, Old Continent, or Shepistani/Japanistani - with open arms and capitalism.]

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

If the US, Japan and Europe's export controls don't prevent them from selling videogames and shitty consumer electronics, then there's nothing stopping me from selling commercial products for a quick buck.

And yet Shep is using ShroomTel processors. That by no means is something to be taken lightly especially if it is used for military purposes.

Langley, Sirnoth, the Vineyards and San Dorado are reputable nations. I'm not selling shit to Turd World shitholes, Velaria, or whatnot.

From your perspective, not from ours.

Vineyards is former Shroomanian Commonwealth and, thus, a Shroomanian ally in the Frequesue region.

Plus, Sturgeons are ships from the 1960s.

So?

Chucking the concerns of an OC power and Continental Defense Plan partner and ally into the bureaucracy where no one will hear of it is rather an impolite way of telling us that our thoughts and opinions count for zilch and sends mixed messages when you want us to help you guys in case the Japanistanis come over to kill everyone.

Am I butting my head into someone else's affairs? No. If Shroomania did a landgrab somewhere, like sending Christopher Walken in some middle of nowhere in Velaria, you'd have someone raising concern over it - like that Byzantine guy. If some nutjobs go around dicking in some WWII U-boat, you sent a submarine into Shroomanian territory - rather than filing a note of concern to be chucked somewhere in the bureaucracy.

You tell me why it should matter, then I would care. You haven't even given me even a single justification to care even a single bit, beyond ranting on behalf of PeZookia. You tell me why I should care, or I would not care. It is simple logic.

If it is the issue of commie-paranoia, it is for you to deal with your people, not us. We can give assurances, but it's up to you to manage your own people, since they are the ones who control the vote. Our influence is limited at best

Shroomania hasn't (officially) raised a peep of concern about the Shadows annexing the Border States. The annexation was a major military operation, your SNC people practically took three (or four?) nations over, and so some people should've been given forewarning over that. Shroomania is still in the Old Continent, is a major power in the region, and by all means we should've raised quite a lot more noise about your people going over our heads in a major military adventure without consulting us. You can say that the SNC owes Shroomania nothing, but if you want Shroomania to be in on your whole continental defensive plans, then keeping us in the black about your big plans is a major no-no.

And how again should this concern Shroomania? You haven't even so much as tell us why you should know anything about what is an internal SNC matter. It's like India butting in on Sri Lanka and saying their war on the Tamil Tigers concerns them, when the Tamil Tigers aren't even doing anything to the Indians. The last time India did, that resulted in the assassination of the Indian Prime Minister Gandhi. So yeah, why should Shroomania again be involved in something that doesn't concern Shroomania?

With regard to continental defence plans, those plans thus far were limited to air defence. (and we haven't even posted a post on the signing of the Continental Air Defence Treaty, come to think of it. So the treaty only exist in verbal form, much less even on paper and is not even back by any legalese.) By no means did it even include land defence. So again, why should the matter of the USSR be a matter of Shroomania?

Considering that the higher echelons of Shroomanian (and PeZookian) government have been going beyond the call of duty to play down the Shadows' annexation of the Border States, to the point of ignoring it, while going beyond the call of duty to make the goddamn communists resemble something like actual-factual human beings in the eyes of the Shroomanian public... it would be mighty nice if you help us get that observer status in the SNC.

That observer status is now up to the SNC, but since we haven't gotten around to organise a meeting (we just had one), so no, your observer status is up in limbo until we hold one.

BTW, We are building B-1 bombers and SSGNs precisely so if (and when) the Japanistanis come for the Old Continent - if they come after us, then we will have something to hit them back with.

[You don't want me to consider popping my defense budget back to 1% (or something) and sitting out any possible nuclear war to welcome the winners - be they MESS, Old Continent, or Shepistani/Japanistani - with open arms and capitalism.]

If you do that, then we will actively exclude Shroomania from any defense planning, or anything related to defense. But yeah, there's nothing to stop you from going neutral.

[Shroom Man 777]

And yet Shep is using ShroomTel processors. That by no means is something to be taken lightly especially if it is used for military purposes.

Actually, those are Tonkin processors. Degenatron and Gaystation uses processors from Tonkin. Phongn posted an article about how he was filthy rich for selling his processors to Shroomanian companies and the Vineyards for their Vintendo Vii.

Besides, I think that's totally unfair. I didn't even know about Shepistanis using ShroomTels or Shroompeace pirates torpedoing whaling ships, yet Shep dicks around and then it becomes Shroomania's (or my) mess to clean up.

(EVERYONE is getting in on putting Shroom- or -shroom in names anywhoo. I don't think that just because it has 'Shroom' in it, it's Shroomanian.)

Langley, Sirnoth, the Vineyards and San Dorado are reputable nations. I'm not selling shit to Turd World shitholes, Velaria, or whatnot.

From your perspective, not from ours.

Langley bought some Crimson, or was it Byzantine, S-300/400s and San Dorado bought some of your Su-something somethings. They're friendly nations and we can actually convince them to ally with us, rather than Shepistan and Japanistan, or the MESS.

If we station bombers and subs in their territory, Shepistan and Japanistan might also divert some of their bombers to those countries - meaning *slightly* less Shep/Jap bombers are sent to kill us in the Old Continent. That also means Shepistan and Japanistan will need *slightly* more jet fuel.

You tell me why it should matter, then I would care. You haven't even given me even a single justification to care even a single bit, beyond ranting on behalf of PeZookia. You tell me why I should care, or I would not care. It is simple logic.

If it is the issue of commie-paranoia, it is for you to deal with your people, not us. We can give assurances, but it's up to you to manage your own people, since they are the ones who control the vote. Our influence is limited at best

And how again should this concern Shroomania? You haven't even so much as tell us why you should know anything about what is an internal SNC matter. It's like India butting in on Sri Lanka and saying their war on the Tamil Tigers concerns them, when the Tamil Tigers aren't even doing anything to the Indians. The last time India did, that resulted in the assassination of the Indian Prime Minister Gandhi. So yeah, why should Shroomania again be involved in something that doesn't concern Shroomania?

With regard to continental defence plans, those plans thus far were limited to air defence. (and we haven't even posted a post on the signing of the Continental Air Defence Treaty, come to think of it. So the treaty only exist in verbal form, much less even on paper and is not even back by any legalese.) By no means did it even include land defence. So again, why should the matter of the USSR be a matter of Shroomania?

Well, I think it's common courtesy to tell other nations that your people are going to do something big like that.

Besides, in-game I'm not doing any butting in at all. This is all OOC stuff. I'm complaining of perceived anti-Shroomitism. I don't like being marginalized and left in the sidelines.

If you do that, then we will actively exclude Shroomania from any defense planning, or anything related to defense. But yeah, there's nothing to stop you from going neutral.

From the way things are, it seems like Shroomania is already excluded from all that stuff.

Besides, that would be a goddamn shame, since Commodores Coot and Cain were getting along rather well.

I just want an alliance of Old Continent guys to match the MESS and Japanistan/Shepistan, but you guys don't seem to want or care for Shroomania to be in on it - what gives?

[PeZook]

Fingolfin, what the hell crawled up your ass all of a sudden?

Jesus, since when is Shroomania selling "strategic technology" to "unstable nations"?

Tonkin doesn't need Shroomanian technology, they're a huge Imperium with a well developed industrial base. Console processors won't help them squat, and Shep can just buy advanced electronics and weapons that the IRT makes themselves.

The FTO are lukewarm to friendly, and they didn't get any missiles from Shroom, either. OMG, he'll sell them disarmed 1960s submarines! Batter down the hatches!

It's not like the FTO isn't comissioning their own fully capable advanced subs, anyway.

On the Border States, it's not an internal SNC matter. The Border States were sovereign countries, as per the last peace treaty with the Shadow Empire, not some rouge province. It was a retarded treaty, to be sure, but this was an important international development. And, of course, Shroom was only trying to help WRT international opinion.

I'm not sure why Byzantium is getting all paranoid about fucking Shroomania of all places!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Actually, those are Tonkin processors. Degenatron and Gaystation uses processors from Tonkin. Phongn posted an article about how he was filthy rich for selling his processors to Shroomanian companies and the Vineyards for their Vintendo Vii.

Besides, I think that's totally unfair. I didn't even know about Shepistanis using ShroomTels or Shroompeace pirates torpedoing whaling ships, yet Shep dicks around and then it becomes Shroomania's (or my) mess to clean up.

(EVERYONE is getting in on putting Shroom- or -shroom in names anywhoo. I don't think that just because it has 'Shroom' in it, it's Shroomanian.)

Well, only you put Shroom everywhere. Though I have to agree people should stop "Shrooming" every damn thing.

Langley bought some Crimson, or was it Byzantine, S-300/400s and San Dorado bought some of your Su-something somethings. They're friendly nations and we can actually convince them to ally with us, rather than Shepistan and Japanistan, or the MESS.

Stas placed a number of embargos on a number of items, and so did I. Defensive weapons we might sell, but not offensive weapons. Two different things here.

If we station bombers and subs in their territory, Shepistan and Japanistan might also divert some of their bombers to those countries - meaning *slightly* less Shep/Jap bombers are sent to kill us in the Old Continent. That also means Shepistan and Japanistan will need *slightly* more jet fuel.

They might not like to get dragged into a war, to be honest.

Well, I think it's common courtesy to tell other nations that your people are going to do something big like that.

Beyond common courtesy, what good would it have done? It's not like any of these Border States have any reason, much less means, to attack Shroomania. There wasn't a chance the conflict would have spilled over anyway.

Besides, in-game I'm not doing any butting in at all. This is all OOC stuff. I'm complaining of perceived anti-Shroomitism. I don't like being marginalized and left in the sidelines.

Fair enough. Though in-game, I haven't done much that should be even interpreted as anti-shroomatism.

From the way things are, it seems like Shroomania is already excluded from all that stuff.

Besides, that would be a goddamn shame, since Commodores Coot and Cain were getting along rather well.

If we have deliberately excluded you from any planning, we would have expressively forbidden PeZookia from working with Shroomania. But we didn't.

On the other hand, if you actively place export control laws on your products and sell them responsibly, CSR might be more inclined to work with Shroomania, and in turn Byzantium.

I just want an alliance of Old Continent guys to match the MESS and Japanistan/Shepistan, but you guys don't seem to want or care for Shroomania to be in on it - what gives?

Well, Stas' people regard Shroomania with suspicion.... so...

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Fingolfin, what the hell crawled up your ass all of a sudden?

Jesus, since when is Shroomania selling "strategic technology" to "unstable nations"?

Tonkin doesn't need Shroomanian technology, they're a huge Imperium with a well developed industrial base. Console processors won't help them squat, and Shep can just buy advanced electronics and weapons that the IRT makes themselves.

The FTO are lukewarm to friendly, and they didn't get any missiles from Shroom, either. OMG, he'll sell them disarmed 1960s submarines! Batter down the hatches!

It's not like the FTO isn't comissioning their own fully capable advanced subs, anyway.

On the Border States, it's not an internal SNC matter. The Border States were sovereign countries, as per the last peace treaty with the Shadow Empire, not some rouge province. It was a retarded treaty, to be sure, but this was an important international development. And, of course, Shroom was only trying to help WRT international opinion. Alternatively, I would suggest a treaty similar to some RL treaties that prohibit the sharing of strategic technologies with certain powers.

I'm not sure why Byzantium is getting all paranoid about fucking Shroomania of all places!

Well, I noticed that San Dorado is using Shroomanian reactors in her submarines. That is cause for some degree of concern since the reactor forms a very huge part in the operation of a nuclear submarine. While the FTO doesn't pose a threat, spreading strategic technologies around gives possible rise that it will end up in the wrong hands and then become a problem.

And since Byzantium didn't support the treaty dismantling the Shadow Empire, we are actively shafting it down the tube anyhow.

[PeZook]

Well, I noticed that San Dorado is using Shroomanian reactors in her submarines. That is cause for some degree of concern since the reactor forms a very huge part in the operation of a nuclear submarine. While the FTO doesn't pose a threat, spreading strategic technologies around gives possible rise that it will end up in the wrong hands and then become a problem.

It is?

Well, even so, I don't see much of a problem. Shepistan has its own reactors (and can buy advances ones from Japanistan anyway), and Japanistan can make whatever they want on their own.

All relevant strategic technologies are spread around already, except perhaps liquid-fuelled ballistic rockets.

And since Byzantium didn't support the treaty dismantling the Shadow Empire, we are actively shafting it down the tube anyhow.

Well, sure. King Paul was all "good riddance" to it as well, but we appreciate Shroomania's propaganda help with our people.

[Shroom Man 777]

Well, only you put Shroom everywhere. Though I have to agree people should stop "Shrooming" every damn thing.

Actually, Shep's been doing it too. And I recall that some lake in Frequesue, which... uhh some of their fighters fought over (I can't be arsed to remember which nations) had Shroom in it.

Also, Bruce Shroomsteen is apparently very big in San Dorado.

And I had nothing to do with them!

They might not like to get dragged into a war, to be honest.

Neither would I - but we're all in this together!

Beyond common courtesy, what good would it have done? It's not like any of these Border States have any reason, much less means, to attack Shroomania. There wasn't a chance the conflict would have spilled over anyway.

Well, it would've prevented the public from shitting their pants. It also would've made leaders feel good that at least they were told in advance of something big and important happen - since not being told of big and important happenings kind of makes people feel not-big and not -important.

Fair enough. Though in-game, I haven't done much that should be even interpreted as anti-shroomatism.

Thank goodness I had those Shroompeace guys based at Zoria since A.) They're a figment of Shep's imagination. So you actually didn't end up violating Shroomanian territory and performing unauthorized killings of Shroomanians.

I was actually thinking of having a giant squid attack that Byzantine submarine. But it was too late... and too silly.

Maybe I'll reserve it for some Shepistani submarine that's dicking around.

If we have deliberately excluded you from any planning, we would have expressively forbidden PeZookia from working with Shroomania. But we didn't.

On the other hand, if you actively place export control laws on your products and sell them responsibly, CSR might be more inclined to work with Shroomania, and in turn Byzantium.

But what have I sold irresonsibly?

'Sides, you guys sell guns to the same people I sell guns to.

Well, Stas' people regard Shroomania with suspicion.... so...

The number of Shroomanian tourists in the CSR is on the rise! Relations are at an all time high!

Crimson photographers take pretty pictures of Farbanti!

Well, I noticed that San Dorado is using Shroomanian reactors in her submarines. That is cause for some degree of concern since the reactor forms a very huge part in the operation of a nuclear submarine. While the FTO doesn't pose a threat, spreading strategic technologies around gives possible rise that it will end up in the wrong hands and then become a problem.

If we are allies, I can use my positive points to influence the FTO while Stas does whatever he usually does. Thus, together, we can own them.

And I can use some form of legalese so that the San Doradoans are obligated to me (and thus to us) in some way for purchasing the nuclear subs?

And since Byzantium didn't support the treaty dismantling the Shadow Empire, we are actively shafting it down the tube anyhow.

Eh, screw that. For one, that treaty was fifty years ago. For two, we wanted some shitholes in the Old Continent, didn't we?

Screw the Border States. Fuck them.

Well, sure. King Paul was all "good riddance" to it as well, but we appreciate Shroomania's propaganda help with our people.

What propaganda help?

[Steve]

Hey, the only thing I "Shroom"ed was referring to something as "Shroomwellian", and I didn't consider it unrealistic for our world's George Orwell to be born in the closest thing we have to Britain.

[Karmic Knight]

The FTO are lukewarm to friendly, and they didn't get any missiles from Shroom, either. OMG, he'll sell them disarmed 1960s submarines! Batter down the hatches!

Even worse, they are being made to try and develop a usable cargo-sub that would immediately be placed on the world market for licensing and building!

Actually, Shep's been doing it too. And I recall that some lake in Frequesue, which... uhh some of their fighters fought over (I can't be arsed to remember which nations) had Shroom in it.

Also, Bruce Shroomsteen is apparently very big in San Dorado.

And I had nothing to do with them!

I also did a couple of things, including Martin Luthshroom the Something Something-th, since I remember you claiming to be a mishmash of Germany and Great Britain.


edit: Does Khitan still enjoy a pirate infestation, or was that cleared up at some point?
edit2: What is the pirate activity near Astaria like, they are pretty close to what I can only imagine would be a pirate haven?

[PeZook]

What propaganda help?

IIRC, you did some press releases and the like.

Even worse, they are being made to try and develop a usable cargo-sub that would immediately be placed on the world market for licensing and building!

Frankly, I consider it a lousy idea unless you're a besieged island dependant on cargo shipments from elsewhere

edit: Does Khitan still enjoy a pirate infestation, or was that cleared up at some point?
edit2: What is the pirate activity near Astaria like, they are pretty close to what I can only imagine would be a pirate haven?

Khitan is a (relatively) modern country now, and Astaria is not a pirate haven or another BorderStatesque shithole.

But don't worry - the Border States will still be rather shitty places for some time