T:SCC 2x05: "Goodbye to all That"

[Thanas]

Welcome, fellow members of the resistance, to another episode of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Today's episode is named "Goodbye to all That" and will be broadcasted in the usual timeslot of 8:00 pm. ET.

John and Derek protect a future member of the resistance at a military academy, and Weaver gives Ellison his first assignment.

The episode was written by Ashley Edward Miller and Zack Stentz, the veteran writers and executive producers of the show. Those two have previously written for Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda, where their scripts resulted in the only bearable episodes after Sorbo set out to ruin the show. As such, there might be another Andromeda reference in this episode, like in their previous episode "Dungeons and Dragons".

Needless to say, I am really looking forward to this episode, since Dungeons and Dragons was the highlight of the first season. Expect to see lots of guns, and plenty of Derek Reese.

[Peptuck]

This episode reminds me why Derek is one of my faves on this show.

Okay, first off, the bad: kiddie Bedell was annoying for the most part, except for his bit where he thanked Sarah. Also, Weaver once again shows terminal stupidity by walking away from the scene of a murder in her Weaver guise. Was a little annoyed that John wasn't shown addressing Cameron's bout of insanity from the last episode, but the way the series has been shown thus far, that'll probably get addressed in a later episode. I'd almost be annoyed at the Terminator-of-the-weekness of this episode, but it was well done. Wizard of Oz references were a bit too heavy and forced for me.

The good: Pretty much the entirety of the interaction between Bedell, John, and Derek, which made up the majority of the episode. Derek crushing that overeager gung-ho cadet rocked. Cameron's brief bits were interesting, and I broke out laughing when she asked kid Bedell if he wanted a bedtime story. Good connections between adult Bedell at the academy and Bedell in the future.

Observations: Terminator this week walked across a wooden plank without breaking it, so he has to be lightweight. He also withstood a .50 cal incendiary high explosive round to the chest, though a second one to the skull at close range deformed his head. Claymores didn't do much more than slow him down. He also burned and melted in a tar pit; anyone got calcs on that?

Random notes: Cameron was at the academy in the woods during the battle with the unnamed Terminator. Why didn't she intervene? Glitch, or maybe she thought John could handle it? I get the feeling that's going to be a plot point later on.

Overall rating is a 4, because the great bits with Derek, Bedell, and John made it all work, but some nagging annoyances kept it from being as good as the last one.

[eyexist]

Was a little annoyed that John wasn't shown addressing Cameron's bout of insanity from the last episode, but the way the series has been shown thus far, that'll probably get addressed in a later episode.

It didn't surprise me that John didn't bring it up. John doesn't need another reason for Sarah and Derek not to trust Cameron.

[Tsyroc]

Observations: Terminator this week walked across a wooden plank without breaking it, so he has to be lightweight. He also withstood a .50 cal incendiary high explosive round to the chest, though a second one to the skull at close range deformed his head. Claymores didn't do much more than slow him down. He also burned and melted in a tar pit; anyone got calcs on that?

I think that John threw a thermite device on it and that was why it was burning in the tar pit. I don't know that it would work as well as them completely covering the terminator in thermite but it looks like they should have been able to melt it well enough that it wouldn't be to anyone's benefit to go to the effort of trying to get whatever remains survived out of the tar pit.

[Solauren]

Depending on the quality and type of thermite, there may not be anything left of the terminator to salvage.

I liked this episode. I gave it a 4.

Oh, does anyone else think Cameron is acting a little like the messed-up girlfriend with John? Consider the timeline for this season as it comes to that.

#1 - She says she's in love with him, and if she wasn't telling the truth, crap, Cameron is a good act-bot

#2 - She she's Johns new female friend from school, gives her a look that basically says 'fuck off, he's mine', and then proceeds to write one of her letters.

#3 - During this episode, she didn't intervene against the machine went it starting going after John. Was she waiting to see if he could handle it, and then be the hero if he couldn't? (Or was she just avoiding being in Derek's line of fire?)

[Peptuck]

Observations: Terminator this week walked across a wooden plank without breaking it, so he has to be lightweight. He also withstood a .50 cal incendiary high explosive round to the chest, though a second one to the skull at close range deformed his head. Claymores didn't do much more than slow him down. He also burned and melted in a tar pit; anyone got calcs on that?

I think that John threw a thermite device on it and that was why it was burning in the tar pit. I don't know that it would work as well as them completely covering the terminator in thermite but it looks like they should have been able to melt it well enough that it wouldn't be to anyone's benefit to go to the effort of trying to get whatever remains survived out of the tar pit.

Good point, I forgot about the pipe-bomb like thing he used on the Terminator.

Oh, does anyone else think Cameron is acting a little like the messed-up girlfriend with John? Consider the timeline for this season as it comes to that.

#1 - She says she's in love with him, and if she wasn't telling the truth, crap, Cameron is a good act-bot

#2 - She she's Johns new female friend from school, gives her a look that basically says 'fuck off, he's mine', and then proceeds to write one of her letters.

#3 - During this episode, she didn't intervene against the machine went it starting going after John. Was she waiting to see if he could handle it, and then be the hero if he couldn't? (Or was she just avoiding being in Derek's line of fire?)

I'm really thinking that this has something to do with Allison. We know that Allison had some kind of connection with future John, and Cameron has literally been confusing herself with Allison, so I'm of the notion that a lot of this could be aspects of the Allison personality/program/memories she's got rising up in the wake of her chip being damaged.

Cameron not intervening could also be part of the Allison personality, as in the last episode we saw her react with panic and fear while being threatened, but that's just a crazy conjecture on my part.

[Kodiak]

Did anyone else catch that the cadet who got chewed out was cadet "Pile"? Sounded like a reference to Full Metal Jacket.

PS, I love this show

[Lord_Xerxes]

I really liked the episode as well. I'd probably have to give it a 4 as well. But it did have some nagging annoyances for me.

Firstly was, how the hell did they get into a Military facility (even a training school) with a truck filled with that much guns and hardware? That was a little bit of a SoD moment for me. It also felt like Derek and John got accepted into a military school quite quickly. Wouldn't there be all sorts of background checks and a wait period involved? Even with the groups skill in forging, I'm curious as to whether it would be able to get them into such a place...and whether or not that would be another paper trail that the group would leave behind for someone else to find when they're trying to stay low/off the radar.

Secondly, what the hell was the resolution with the younger Bedel? Did he just not tell his parents where or who his was with. That seems like an awful big jump in trust for someone like Sarah to take upon a child when children and likely to spill the beans. She gave the kid a card with her phone number too. Seems like an awful risk for the parents or the authorities to find and lead to her.

The last was the plank. I was really expecting it to snap, and I thought that was what John's plan was in going across...Perhaps he thought it would too? It almost feelsl like the producers are going out of their way to show Lightweight Terminators. From some degree, it makes sense with Cameron as a infiltrator model. But for the larger and seemingly more robust models? Not so much.

That aside, I loved the plot points for the episode. I love the flash-forward-to-the-future segments with Derek and can't get enough of them. And I think the episode did a wonderful job of capturing the essence of John having to do what he has to for the sake of the future even when it means putting a normal life for himself or others to the side. This season is doing wonders for steering him in the direction of the "Great military leader" of the future.

[Crazedwraith]

This a fun episode, rich in references to the original Terminator, The Triple 8 got the same gun and the same costume although the Triple 8 is rather more direct that Arnie, firing through a door rather than ripping it open. One of the cadets was called 'Pyle' which is a Full Metal Jacket Reference is it not?

I was half expecting Bedell to be the guy who got hit guts blasted out and carried off by Kyle.

What was that device they were using in the future called? They seemed to be refering to it as an EMP, which rings alarm bells for me.

Slight niggling issue for me: The Terminator in this weapon wasn't carrying is weapon when he attacked the military school. If he had, John would have been dead for sure. Still it looked to me as if Derek's last head, blew a massive chunk of endo skull out right where the chip should be, so that guy's down for the count I should think.

[Imperial Overlord]

Loved the episode. I like the .50 with armour piercing ammo doing a job on the Termie. As for Cameron, she wasn't supposed to be there. With her previous erratic behavior that could have been the last nail in her coffin. It makes sense if she went there to save John if it became absolutely necessary for her to do so. Derek and John handled the Termie on their own so she didn't reveal herself. She went against direct orders to do that. Sarah and Derek would have probably thought that was the last straw, even if John didn't.

[Peptuck]

Loved the episode. I like the .50 with armour piercing ammo doing a job on the Termie. As for Cameron, she wasn't supposed to be there. With her previous erratic behavior that could have been the last nail in her coffin. It makes sense if she went there to save John if it became absolutely necessary for her to do so. Derek and John handled the Termie on their own so she didn't reveal herself. She went against direct orders to do that. Sarah and Derek would have probably thought that was the last straw, even if John didn't.

Actually, Sarah specifically told Derek that Cameron was on her way ("Cameron is a couple of hours away"), and gave her orders to go after adult Martin after they decided the T-888 wasn't going after the kid any longer. The question here is why she didn't go after the T-888 when it went after John.

[Imperial Overlord]

Actually, Sarah specifically told Derek that Cameron was on her way ("Cameron is a couple of hours away"), and gave her orders to go after adult Martin after they decided the T-888 wasn't going after the kid any longer. The question here is why she didn't go after the T-888 when it went after John.

I missed that. Might have been the fault of that annoying pollster who phoned me while I was trying to watch the episode. There goes a perfectly good theory.

[Thanas]

This episode reminds me why Derek is one of my faves on this show.

Okay, first off, the bad: kiddie Bedell was annoying for the most part, except for his bit where he thanked Sarah. Also, Weaver once again shows terminal stupidity by walking away from the scene of a murder in her Weaver guise. Was a little annoyed that John wasn't shown addressing Cameron's bout of insanity from the last episode, but the way the series has been shown thus far, that'll probably get addressed in a later episode. I'd almost be annoyed at the Terminator-of-the-weekness of this episode, but it was well done. Wizard of Oz references were a bit too heavy and forced for me.

I thought they were a nice callback to the first season and once again highlighted how close John and Cameron are in the future - close enough to tell her about his favorite bedtime stories. Which is rather...astounding considering the revelations from the last episode.

The good: Pretty much the entirety of the interaction between Bedell, John, and Derek, which made up the majority of the episode. Derek crushing that overeager gung-ho cadet rocked. Cameron's brief bits were interesting, and I broke out laughing when she asked kid Bedell if he wanted a bedtime story.

Word.

Observations: Terminator this week walked across a wooden plank without breaking it, so he has to be lightweight.

He was also tossed by a gunshot at close range, which once again points to the light weight, as well as not wrecking the top of the car when he jumped on it.

Random notes: Cameron was at the academy in the woods during the battle with the unnamed Terminator. Why didn't she intervene? Glitch, or maybe she thought John could handle it? I get the feeling that's going to be a plot point later on.

Maybe. Or she maybe just got there in time to see the aftermath.

This a fun episode, rich in references to the original Terminator, The Triple 8 got the same gun and the same costume although the Triple 8 is rather more direct that Arnie, firing through a door rather than ripping it open. One of the cadets was called 'Pyle' which is a Full Metal Jacket Reference is it not?

Yes.

What was that device they were using in the future called? They seemed to be refering to it as an EMP, which rings alarm bells for me.

No, they called it the "EFP" It is simply a massive IED.

Firstly was, how the hell did they get into a Military facility (even a training school) with a truck filled with that much guns and hardware? That was a little bit of a SoD moment for me. It also felt like Derek and John got accepted into a military school quite quickly. Wouldn't there be all sorts of background checks and a wait period involved?

Like with the kid being listed in the phonebook, I guess there is a need to compromise in order to tell a tale.

Oh, does anyone else think Cameron is acting a little like the messed-up girlfriend with John? Consider the timeline for this season as it comes to that.

#1 - She says she's in love with him, and if she wasn't telling the truth, crap, Cameron is a good act-bot

#2 - She she's Johns new female friend from school, gives her a look that basically says 'fuck off, he's mine', and then proceeds to write one of her letters.

#3 - During this episode, she didn't intervene against the machine went it starting going after John. Was she waiting to see if he could handle it, and then be the hero if he couldn't? (Or was she just avoiding being in Derek's line of fire?)

As for her not intervening, we do not know whether she just got there and only saw the aftermath. As for the rest, Cameron's relation to John has been a major plot point of the first season and she has always acted annoyed when he looked at other females - like with Cheri in the first season, where she just blanked out when he went over to her table. She also stared at Cheri when she sat next to John. Plus, she continued to flirt with him even when her cover was already compromised. This is not really a new development IMO, it is just intensified, although certain elements like the letter are new.

I'm really thinking that this has something to do with Allison. We know that Allison had some kind of connection with future John, and Cameron has literally been confusing herself with Allison, so I'm of the notion that a lot of this could be aspects of the Allison personality/program/memories she's got rising up in the wake of her chip being damaged.

Cameron not intervening could also be part of the Allison personality, as in the last episode we saw her react with panic and fear while being threatened, but that's just a crazy conjecture on my part.

I am calling crazy conjecture on the last part and as for the first, I do not know. Might be, or it might just be a continuation of Season 1 storylines (see above). As for whether Cameron is still confused and identifying herself as Allison...who knows. She seemed to have snapped out of it at the end of the last episode.

Finally, I echo the rest with calling this a 4.

[Beowulf]

EFPs are not massive IEDs. They are carefully contructed devices that are capable of using explosives to form and accelerate a projectile. They can be improvised, or manufactured just like any other weapon. The size they showed it being indicates that it is not massive.

[[R_H]]

This episode reminds me why Derek is one of my faves on this show.

Okay, first off, the bad: kiddie Bedell was annoying for the most part, except for his bit where he thanked Sarah. Also, Weaver once again shows terminal stupidity by walking away from the scene of a murder in her Weaver guise. Was a little annoyed that John wasn't shown addressing Cameron's bout of insanity from the last episode, but the way the series has been shown thus far, that'll probably get addressed in a later episode. I'd almost be annoyed at the Terminator-of-the-weekness of this episode, but it was well done. Wizard of Oz references were a bit too heavy and forced for me.

The good: Pretty much the entirety of the interaction between Bedell, John, and Derek, which made up the majority of the episode. Derek crushing that overeager gung-ho cadet rocked. Cameron's brief bits were interesting, and I broke out laughing when she asked kid Bedell if he wanted a bedtime story. Good connections between adult Bedell at the academy and Bedell in the future.

Observations: Terminator this week walked across a wooden plank without breaking it, so he has to be lightweight. He also withstood a .50 cal incendiary high explosive round to the chest, though a second one to the skull at close range deformed his head. Claymores didn't do much more than slow him down. He also burned and melted in a tar pit; anyone got calcs on that?

Random notes: Cameron was at the academy in the woods during the battle with the unnamed Terminator. Why didn't she intervene? Glitch, or maybe she thought John could handle it? I get the feeling that's going to be a plot point later on.

Overall rating is a 4, because the great bits with Derek, Bedell, and John made it all work, but some nagging annoyances kept it from being as good as the last one.

The Termie took two .50 cals to the head. The first one only damaged his left "eye" though, it wasn't a clean hit. Anyone catch the whole ".50 cal, it hits with the force of a 25mm cannon"?

But yeah, definitely a good episode, I especially liked the end where Sarah and the other Martin were reading the Wizard of Oz how that was used to narrate some of the action going on at the military academy.

A solid 4.

[Peptuck]

Actually, Sarah specifically told Derek that Cameron was on her way ("Cameron is a couple of hours away"), and gave her orders to go after adult Martin after they decided the T-888 wasn't going after the kid any longer. The question here is why she didn't go after the T-888 when it went after John.

I missed that. Might have been the fault of that annoying pollster who phoned me while I was trying to watch the episode. There goes a perfectly good theory.

Actually, this brought up something I haven't noticed before until I thought about it.

Cameron has made it expressly clear that she doesn't have to listen to what the Connors say, as early on as the second episode of the first season. Her orders come from Future John and no one else.

Yet, even though she doesn't have to follow anyone's orders, Cameron follows Sarah's orders almost without question. She doesn't have to do what Sarah says, she's never shown an indication of subservience to Sarah, yet when Sarah tells her to do something, Cameron defers to her. Cameron just naturally lets Sarah Connor take the lead and blithely obeys her orders even though she really doesn't need to do so.

[Shroom Man 777]

Maybe Cameron chose not to intervene so John could kill the robot himself and thus become a little bit more of a Great Military Leader?

[Thanas]

Actually, this brought up something I haven't noticed before until I thought about it.

Cameron has made it expressly clear that she doesn't have to listen to what the Connors say, as early on as the second episode of the first season. Her orders come from Future John and no one else.

Yet, even though she doesn't have to follow anyone's orders, Cameron follows Sarah's orders almost without question. She doesn't have to do what Sarah says, she's never shown an indication of subservience to Sarah, yet when Sarah tells her to do something, Cameron defers to her. Cameron just naturally lets Sarah Connor take the lead and blithely obeys her orders even though she really doesn't need to do so.

Perhaps because Sarah has gotten quite a glowing endorsement from her John ("the best fighter he ever knew) and because what Sarah says usually makes sense.

Maybe Cameron chose not to intervene so John could kill the robot himself and thus become a little bit more of a Great Military Leader?

What's all this with her not intervening? Unless anyone can show me that she got there in time and did not intervene, this is all speculation.

[Oskuro]

Cameron has made it expressly clear that she doesn't have to listen to what the Connors say, as early on as the second episode of the first season. Her orders come from Future John and no one else.

Actually, the dialogue goes a bit like this:

Sarah - "Are you supposed to take orders?"
Cameron - "From Jhon"
Sarah - "So if I tell Jhon to order you..."
Cameron - "No this Jhon"
Sarah - "Not this Jhon? Aren't they the same?"
Cameron - "Not yet"

I think the "not yet" indicates that she is waiting for Jhon to become the man he's supposed to become, probably a failsafe by Future Jhon to avoid his younger, more naive and clueless self from jeopardizing the mission. So maybe as the series progresses and Jhon becomes closer to being like Future Jhon, their relationship might change.

[Thanas]

^ John, please. You are correct with your interpretation btw, though it doesn't change Peptuck's arguments, since he still isn't ready.

Oh, and I also notice John hasn't looked at her chip yet, the idiot.

[Crazedwraith]

Maybe Cameron chose not to intervene so John could kill the robot himself and thus become a little bit more of a Great Military Leader?

What's all this with her not intervening? Unless anyone can show me that she got there in time and did not intervene, this is all speculation.

The show doesn't show her arriving. It pans to her standing there and watching. She's not moving to assist, she's not making her presence felt. She's hiding in the shadows. How is this not suspect?

[Thanas]

The show doesn't show her arriving. It pans to her standing there and watching. She's not moving to assist, she's not making her presence felt. She's hiding in the shadows. How is this not suspect?

The show shows her standing here after the T-888 is clearly defeated. As for not making her presence felt, do you think that would be a particularly smart move when there are probably several cadets running around who are already psyked due to the fight? Also, what would be gained by her making her presence felt? John and Derek handled it.

[Thanas]

Ratings, courtesy of The Hollywood Reporter.

NBC’s two younger-skewing action dramas fell sharply yet again. "Chuck" (5.8 million, 2.3/8) dropped 15% and "Heroes" (8.2 million, 4.0/9) dropped 11%.[...]"Heroes" was NBC's strongest scripted series the past couple years and is now fading with alarmingly quickness. It's a clear problem ... without a clear solution.

This is excellent news. Heroes dropping viewers like flies means that T:SCC might actually beat it out by the end of the season if this continues. It might not have been such a smart move by NBC to put it up on Monday to kill T:SCC since it has fared even worse than T:SCC in the rough competition with ESPN's "Monday Night Football" and TBS' Major League Baseball divisional playoffs.

Meanwhile, T:SCC bounced back:

There was increased sports competition for male viewers on cable last night (ESPN's "Monday Night Football" and TBS' Major League Baseball divisional playoffs), though the action dramas on fourth-place Fox didn't likewise dip. "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" (5.7 million, 2.3/6) bounced up 15% from last week's dire low that prompted some media rumblings about cancellation. The rumors were largely unfounded lest the show sank further. This is too important of a series for a network that's historically weak in the fall anyway.

Seriously, considering the huge fan following Heroes had...wow. Truth to be told, I was very fearful of Heores killing T:SCC by drawing away the core audience...this has not happened. Good.

[Shroom Man 777]

I just saw the episode and I found it to be whoresomely entertaining! It was a good show, and Derek Reese is a wonderful way to get a glimpse of Future War. Totally awesome, in a different way from Robot River's fucked-upness. She didn't do shit in this episode, aside from being all mysterious and librarian-y, but hey - Derek didn't even appear last show!

Poor fat nuclear power plant dude. That T-1001 is a WHORE!

[neoolong]

I don't know how else they could have really done it, but that part just screamed X-Men 2.

Otherwise, it was pretty good. And at least John gets to do something now besides whine and go off with his girlfriend.