Keanu Reeves saves Matrix films

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2003-01-29 04:39pm

I loathe the despicable Matrix!

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-29 05:46pm

OK, I'll say that. The Matrix was good, but it wasn't THAT good. Maybe it had some things in it we hadn't seen before, but what were they? The final fight in Legend of Drunken Master--with no effects other than slo-mo and good editing--just... fucking WHALLOPS on ANY thing in The Matrix.

And now every movie is using that "bullet-time" shot of the hero dodging shit (like in Spiderman). Argh. Gimme a blaster!

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-29 06:23pm

Malecoda wrote:OK, I'll say that. The Matrix was good, but it wasn't THAT good. Maybe it had some things in it we hadn't seen before, but what were they? The final fight in Legend of Drunken Master--with no effects other than slo-mo and good editing--just... fucking WHALLOPS on ANY thing in The Matrix.

And now every movie is using that "bullet-time" shot of the hero dodging shit (like in Spiderman). Argh. Gimme a blaster!

Okay. How would you have shown spidey-sense then?

Besides, Spider-man didn't really use bullet-time. It was more similar to a moving camera shooting in slow motion.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-29 06:30pm

They could have not shown it--I'm talking abt GG's use of the little balls with razor-wing things. They could have used a different weapon, or they could have shown it in any of the myriad ways filmmakers have of photographing things. I think Daredevil has a scene like that too--it's a gratuitous ploy to use "bullet-time". Or whatever you want to call it--I refer to Neo bending over backwards to dodge bullets. Spidey's scene was similar, but they don't have to have it at all.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-29 06:32pm

Oh yeah, and I could be wrong abt techniques and nomenclature. I am just sick of seeing that device. It's like that Gap commercial where everything stops while the camera pans around, and FX crews all over pillage it.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-29 06:39pm

Malecoda wrote:They could have not shown it--I'm talking abt GG's use of the little balls with razor-wing things. They could have used a different weapon, or they could have shown it in any of the myriad ways filmmakers have of photographing things. I think Daredevil has a scene like that too--it's a gratuitous ploy to use "bullet-time". Or whatever you want to call it--I refer to Neo bending over backwards to dodge bullets. Spidey's scene was similar, but they don't have to have it at all.

The thing you just mentioned from Spider-man was pretty much just slow motion.

As for Daredevil, I'll have to see it to be able to make a judgement.

And as for picking another way of showing it, do you actually have a suggestion that would work given the speed that they are moving?

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-29 06:47pm

Yeah--I just gave one--they could have some other weapon, I just now said that shots like that were overused. But, for more suggestions, they don't have to take the POV of the little flying things, for one thing. They could show it from the side. They could show it from the air. They could show it from a car, they could show it in a bar. They could show it at full speed, or 3/4 speed, to shock the audience with how fast these things are and how fast Spidey can hustle. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Logic fans, take note: there's nothing in here that says "my suggestions are better" it may have been a real artistic choice, but to my eye, it's been done and it looks gimmicky. Just once I'd like to see a movie fight done like how you watch a boxing match, where you go "holy shit, did you see that punch?" with no fucked-up editiing that obscures the action and gives you the shakes while exposing you to the hero's armpit. This is why I like the Drunken Master fight. A little touch of slo-mo, and some kickass ass-kicking instead of a bunch of FX.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-29 08:12pm

Crown wrote:I defy anyone to state that when they saw the Matrix, that it didn't just blow their mind! I mean looking back on it now (now that everyone else has copied) it doesn't look so cool, but back then it just blew everything out of the water.

It was a groundbreaker. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-29 08:51pm

Malecoda wrote:They could have not shown it--I'm talking abt GG's use of the little balls with razor-wing things. They could have used a different weapon, or they could have shown it in any of the myriad ways filmmakers have of photographing things. I think Daredevil has a scene like that too--it's a gratuitous ploy to use "bullet-time". Or whatever you want to call it--I refer to Neo bending over backwards to dodge bullets. Spidey's scene was similar, but they don't have to have it at all.

I think the bullet-dodging scene in "The One" is much cooler than the Matrix "bullet-time" thing.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-29 08:52pm

As for Matrix being a ground-breaker, it broke very little ground. People who have been reading sci-fi and watching Hong Kong action movies saw nothing new.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-29 08:52pm

Galvatron wrote:I loathe the despicable Matrix!

WAKE UP! TIME TO DIE!

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-01-29 08:52pm

Galvatron wrote:I loathe the despicable Matrix!

There is a certain Admin who would agree...

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-29 09:13pm

Malecoda wrote:Yeah--I just gave one--they could have some other weapon,

Like what? The Green Goblin used flying razors. What other weapon would there be?

I just now said that shots like that were overused. But, for more suggestions, they don't have to take the POV of the little flying things, for one thing. They could show it from the side. They could show it from the air. They could show it from a car, they could show it in a bar.

I have no idea how that would work considering where the shot took place.

They could show it at full speed, or 3/4 speed, to shock the audience with how fast these things are and how fast Spidey can hustle. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Showing it at less than full speed is slow motion.

Logic fans, take note: there's nothing in here that says "my suggestions are better" it may have been a real artistic choice, but to my eye, it's been done and it looks gimmicky. Just once I'd like to see a movie fight done like how you watch a boxing match, where you go "holy shit, did you see that punch?" with no fucked-up editiing that obscures the action and gives you the shakes while exposing you to the hero's armpit. This is why I like the Drunken Master fight. A little touch of slo-mo, and some kickass ass-kicking instead of a bunch of FX.

There is a reason why American movies often have worse editing in fight scenes than Asian movies. That being that Asian movies usually have actors that can do their own stunts.

TheDarkOne · Post by **TheDarkOne** » 2003-01-30 01:22am

I'm pretty sure the method they used to do the whole camera rotating around an object while the action is paused, <i>was</i> inovative, but other then that I can't think of anything really original in the Matrix.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-30 05:25am

Darth Wong wrote:The Matrix is all about trying to be really cool. I was never that big a fan of the first one, so I don't see why I would be excited about the second one. It's a market research ploy.

Oooh, we need some fantasy, right? OK, let's have some "chosen one" prophecy bullshit in there. As if it's about magic, like Mortal Kombat or Star Wars. And ooh ooh, we need to get all the little wankers, right? So let's make sure we've got a woman in tight black leather. And ooh! Ooh! We need cool music, so we'll slap some grinding tunes wherever we can. And oh boy, we should throw in some really profound dialogue for the snobs, so when Morpheus explains the Matrix to Neo, we'll have him use really literate-sounding dialogue like "the Matrix is the veil that covers your eyes blah blah blah fires scorched the sky yadda yadda yadda" instead of something straightforward like "believe it or not, you're plugged into a virtual reality simulation". And ooooh, we need martial arts! And guns too! So we'll try to concoct a plot device to have both guns and martial arts be critical to our hero!

I enjoy watching the Matrix but it's so self-conciously cool it's almost suffocating.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-01-30 05:06pm

Why are you stuck in the mindset of "it has to be flying razors in this particular place?" I JUST SAID, they could use different weapons, and your retort is "well Green Goblin used this particular weapon, so that's all they could do"? Gee, that's great. I'm glad you're not making movies. I am EXPRESSING my OPINION. The Matrix was NOT the king-shit movie you seem to think it is, and that shot was NOT innovative. Thanks for pointing out that 3/4 is less than 1, btw. I would have never known.

Lord_Xerxes · Post by **Lord_Xerxes** » 2003-01-30 05:19pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Kelly Antilles wrote:I saw the trailer during the super bowl. I wasn't impressed. It looked like a repeat of the first movie.
B....B...But....But it was....20 friggin Agent Smiths! And Neo kicked their asses with a pole! Tell me thatisn'tcool!

I read in a magazine that there is a scene with a 100 Agent Smiths at once.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-30 09:29pm

Malecoda wrote:Why are you stuck in the mindset of "it has to be flying razors in this particular place?" I JUST SAID, they could use different weapons, and your retort is "well Green Goblin used this particular weapon, so that's all they could do"? Gee, that's great. I'm glad you're not making movies.

And I'm glad you're not either. Considering that you're critizing choices that have nothing to do with the movie but have to do with the source material.

I am EXPRESSING my OPINION. The Matrix was NOT the king-shit movie you seem to think it is, and that shot was NOT innovative. Thanks for pointing out that 3/4 is less than 1, btw. I would have never known.

And where have I mentioned that The Matrix was the king-shit? I just said that you can't use that as a basis for arguing using only vaguely similar techniques in other movies where there are really no other alternatives.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-01-30 09:42pm

Lord_Xerxes wrote:I read in a magazine that there is a scene with a 100 Agent Smiths at once.

And that's going to be one hell of an action scene.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-30 09:45pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Lord_Xerxes wrote:I read in a magazine that there is a scene with a 100 Agent Smiths at once.
And that's going to be one hell of an action scene.

I'd call it more of a mastubation scene, if you catch my drift...

100?!

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-30 09:46pm

The Matrix kept me entertained, and I generally nit pick action movies to death. Even if the next pair have no plot, but the same effects and a higher ammunition expendature I'm happy.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-01-31 01:24am

Sea Skimmer wrote:The Matrix kept me entertained, and I generally nit pick action movies to death. Even if the next pair have no plot, but the same effects and a higher ammunition expendature I'm happy.

That's kind of interesting. Action movies are the only movies that I don't nitpick. By the way, "Bulletproof Monk" is going to be awesome.

I like the Matrix, but I agree that the story is pretty lame. After the first few viewings, I couldn't watch any parts other than the fights. And original or not, I hope we can all agree that the fights kicked ass.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-31 12:11pm

Robert Treder wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:The Matrix kept me entertained, and I generally nit pick action movies to death. Even if the next pair have no plot, but the same effects and a higher ammunition expendature I'm happy.
That's kind of interesting. Action movies are the only movies that I don't nitpick. By the way, "Bulletproof Monk" is going to be awesome.

I like the Matrix, but I agree that the story is pretty lame. After the first few viewings, I couldn't watch any parts other than the fights. And original or not, I hope we can all agree that the fights kicked ass.

I heard that Bulletproof Monk has some problems in the editing. Hopefully, it will be worked out and it'll be cool. CHF needs a good American movie besides Anna and the King.

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-01-31 12:59pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote: As for the Animatrix, yeah, that will be one to look out for. Isn't Mamoru Oshii doing a story arc in that?

Unless I'm completely wrong, Oshii is one of the directors for Animatrix. I'm hope Oshii isn't going turn his segment into an another vastly overhype snoozefest.

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Keanu Reeves saves Matrix films

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