Many Christian pastors dismiss mental illness

[The Spartan]

Link

Many Christian pastors dismiss mental illness
Study: A third of those who sought church help told disorder was spiritual
By LiveScience Staff
LiveScience
updated 1:27 p.m. CT, Wed., Oct. 15, 2008
In a study of Christian church members who approached their church for help with a personal or family member's diagnosed mental illness, researchers found that more than 32 percent were told by their pastor that they or their loved one did not really have a mental illness.

The problem was solely spiritual in nature, they were told.

Here's the thing: Other studies have found that clergy, and not psychologists or other mental health experts, are the most common source of help sought in times of psychological distress.

"The results are troubling because it suggests individuals in the local church are either denying or dismissing a somewhat high percentage of mental health diagnosis," said study leader Matthew Stanford, professor of psychology and neuroscience at Baylor University in Texas. "Those whose mental illness is dismissed by clergy are not only being told they don't have a mental illness, they are also being told they need to stop taking their medication. That can be a very dangerous thing."

The results, based on surveys of 293 individuals, were published in the journal Mental Health, Religion and Culture.


Baylor researchers also found that women were more likely than men to have their mental disorders dismissed by the church.

In a subsequent survey, Baylor researchers found the dismissal or denial of the existence of mental illness happened more in conservative churches, rather than more liberal ones.

All of the participants in both studies were previously diagnosed by a licensed mental health provider as having a serious mental illness, such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, prior to approaching their local church for assistance.

On the one hand, I'm not surprised. On the other, I'm disturbed that someone with something as serious as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder would would ignore the doctor's advice for something like that. Though, as I said, I'm not surprised, I've come across people, advertisements and whatever else that insist that every problem in your life (short of serious illness like cancer, and even then...) can be solved by praying more.

Makes me think of Andrea Yates (mother that drowned her five kids here in Houston). I don't recall the particulars of whether or not she spoke with a pastor (who in theory should be a trained counselor) or with an actual doctor, but imagine if that was the case and she ignored the advice of her doctor to follow her pastor's advice of praying more only to hear the voices in her head advise her to drown the children.

[Solauren]

Um, I think that's what happened with Ms. Yates...

[The Spartan]

Um, I think that's what happened with Ms. Yates...

Actually, it's been a few years but I seem to recall that her doctor took her off of anti-psychotic meds, not that she necessarily ignored his advice because of her preacher. The specifics of that particular case weren't really what I was trying to get at though.

[Solauren]

Hit the Submit button when trying to scroll (stupid me)

Check Andrea Yates

She'd been suffering for mental problems for years prior to killing her kids. Her minister, however, made it worse.

From Wikipedia
Numerous media outlets alleged that Yates' minister, Michael Peter Woroniecki, bears some responsibility for the deaths, reporting that he and his wife built a framework of homicidal and suicidal delusions in Yates' impressionably ill mind through "relentless gloom and doom sermonizing."

She had come to believe that she was a "bad mother" who was spiritually and behaviorally damaging her children, and that it was better to kill herself and her offspring rather than to allow them to continue "stumbling" and go to hell-a staple of her minister's teaching to parents found on his 1996 video, which the Yates both received from him and watched.

After viewing this video, Dr. Lucy Puryear told Houston's KTRK-13 News and Good Morning America that although Andrea would have still been mentally ill, she didn't believe Yates would have ever drowned her children had it not been for Woroniecki's religious influences.

Religious figures should be required by law to send anyone that asks them for help beyond simple issues (i.e Father, I'm tempted by another woman) to a psychatrist.

Either that, or they should be required to have some kind of state certified counsellor training.

[The Spartan]

She'd been suffering for mental problems for years prior to killing her kids. Her minister, however, made it worse.

Hmm, I'd forgotten that bit.

Religious figures should be required by law to send anyone that asks them for help beyond simple issues (i.e Father, I'm tempted by another woman) to a psychatrist.

Either that, or they should be required to have some kind of state certified counsellor training.

Preaching to the choir buddy.

[Sidewinder]

My first thought at seeing the thread title was, "Of course they'd dismiss it; they're mentally ill themselves!"

Gallows humor aside, it's horrendously frustrating when people who aren't mental health professionals try to "help" a mentally ill person by overriding the patient's psychologist/psychiatrist. My father has advised me to stop taking psychiatric medications and to lie to my psychiatrist when the psychiatrist asks if I've been following the prescription, so I won't be declared "uncooperative" and be involuntarily committed to a mental hospital.

[Darth Wong]

Heh. Chalk up yet another similarity between Christianity and Scientology.

[PeZook]

Heh...and just yesterday, some church bozo here went on TV proclaiming, with a straight face, that posession was on the rise and there was a serious lack of trained exorcists in the Church!

I guess priests everywhere are working hard to contribute their part!

[Kanastrous]

My first thought at seeing the thread title was, "Of course they'd dismiss it; they're mentally ill themselves!"

Gallows humor aside,<snip>

My first thought, too.

But I don't see anything humorous about it, at all.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Proof that even well-meaning and tolerant religious figures considered to be "pillars of the community" still prove a liability due to their belief in supernatural forces.

[The Vortex Empire]

Why would they seek help from a church for a mental disorder in the first place?

[Kanastrous]

Why would they seek help from a church for a mental disorder in the first place?

Why would they seek *anything* practical, from a church, in the first place?

Once someone has accepted that the corner church is the phone booth for talking to God, is any subsequent behavior too stupid to follow?

[Surlethe]

A couple of years ago, my then-circle of friends was torn apart by someone we (now) suspect had a type of narcissism. We (or some of us) were really religious at the time, and one of my friends suggested that she was being possessed by a certain type of demon.

We have, more or less, come to our senses since then, but people with that worldview will naturally incorporate their worldview's predictions into how they look at things. It's yet another empirical rebuttal of the notion that science and religion can coexist in different sphere: they cannot, because religion is a set of claims about how things are. Usually, the claims don't impinge on daily life, but in cases like this, they do: church leaders, who think there are such things as demons and spiritual temptation and the healing power of Jesus, make recommendations based on those claims. It is no different than a doctor prescribing therapy and a medication based on the claims of his scientific worldview. At the end of the day, religion is just another model of the world, "the two can coexist peacefully" bullshit to the contrary.

[RedImperator]

Why would they seek help from a church for a mental disorder in the first place?

Why would they seek *anything* practical, from a church, in the first place?

Once someone has accepted that the corner church is the phone booth for talking to God, is any subsequent behavior too stupid to follow?

A single visit to a psychologist or a psychiatrist costs well over $100, and most medical plans don't cover it. Talking to a priest is free. Why don't you two geniuses tell me why some people might be relying on the clergy for mental health care?

[Metatwaddle]

Why would they seek help from a church for a mental disorder in the first place?

Actually, all Catholic and Anglican/Episcopal priests go through pretty serious training in counseling during seminary. They are the ones that, at least to some extent, know what the fuck they're doing. It's not self-evidently stupid to seek out counseling from a priest. The problem is that so many ministers of small evangelical churches and the like just don't have sufficient training. I suspect that that contributes to the phenomenon described in the article where

In a subsequent survey, Baylor researchers found the dismissal or denial of the existence of mental illness happened more in conservative churches, rather than more liberal ones.

The other consideration is cost. My therapist works an hour away from my home. I see her once a week, or four times a month. I also see a psychiatrist, who also works an hour away (she's in the same practice). I only see her once every six weeks or so, but when I do, she charges even more per hour than my therapist. Put together, the cost of seeing them is about the same as the cost of renting a one-bedroom apartment around here.

By contrast, there is a liberal Episcopal priest who works at a church not ten minutes from my house (it's the church I went to as a child). He is funny, compassionate and intelligent, he has training in counseling from seminary, and he charges nothing. If I were still religious, of course I would consider going to him for advice!

[Alyrium Denryle]

A couple of years ago, my then-circle of friends was torn apart by someone we (now) suspect had a type of narcissism. We (or some of us) were really religious at the time, and one of my friends suggested that she was being possessed by a certain type of demon.

We have, more or less, come to our senses since then, but people with that worldview will naturally incorporate their worldview's predictions into how they look at things. It's yet another empirical rebuttal of the notion that science and religion can coexist in different sphere: they cannot, because religion is a set of claims about how things are. Usually, the claims don't impinge on daily life, but in cases like this, they do: church leaders, who think there are such things as demons and spiritual temptation and the healing power of Jesus, make recommendations based on those claims. It is no different than a doctor prescribing therapy and a medication based on the claims of his scientific worldview. At the end of the day, religion is just another model of the world, "the two can coexist peacefully" bullshit to the contrary.

Wait... arent you at least nominally catholic?

A single visit to a psychologist or a psychiatrist costs well over $100, and most medical plans don't cover it. Talking to a priest is free. Why don't you two geniuses tell me why some people might be relying on the clergy for mental health care?

There are also trust issues. Someone might not trust revealing personal things to a shrink they hardly know, but they might feel comfortable with a priest or other clergy they feel they can trust who they see regularly and feel they can confide in. There is a LOT of stigma attached to mental illness too. If you can give someone a way to rationalize away their mental illness they will take it.

Actually, all Catholic and Anglican/Episcopal priests go through pretty serious training in counseling during seminary. They are the ones that, at least to some extent, know what the fuck they're doing. It's not self-evidently stupid to seek out counseling from a priest. The problem is that so many ministers of small evangelical churches and the like just don't have sufficient training. I suspect that that contributes to the phenomenon described in the article where

That is one thing. Catholics bear in mind are liberal by christian standards, and they have these people called Jesuits who are very well educated forming a lot (not all) of their policy. Same with the anglicans.

These are churches with an intellectual tradition attached, and child molestation and some wacky policy aside (at least in the US, there are a lot of priests that quasi-openly laugh at the catholic church's position on gay marriage, abortion etc) they actually do good for their congregations taken as a whole.

The protestants, especially the ones that are fundies who DONT have an intellectual tradition attached to their church... not so much

[Alyrium Denryle]

Ghetto edit:

By contrast, there is a liberal Episcopal priest who works at a church not ten minutes from my house (it's the church I went to as a child). He is funny, compassionate and intelligent, he has training in counseling from seminary, and he charges nothing. If I were still religious, of course I would consider going to him for advice!

Even if you were not, honestly priests like would help you out anyway...

[Kanastrous]

Why would they seek help from a church for a mental disorder in the first place?

Why would they seek *anything* practical, from a church, in the first place?

Once someone has accepted that the corner church is the phone booth for talking to God, is any subsequent behavior too stupid to follow?

A single visit to a psychologist or a psychiatrist costs well over $100, and most medical plans don't cover it. Talking to a priest is free.

You get what you pay for. I think pretty much everybody - practicing religious people included - can be expected to have at least heard of that principle. The fact that something is free does not mean that it is worth having.

Why don't you two geniuses tell me why some people might be relying on the clergy for mental health care?

Because they live in a partial fantasy world in which God really lives in the church, the clergy really communicate with Him, He really is interested in intervening upon the congregants' behalf, and something practical can come of their delusions.

[Erik von Nein]

Yeah, the Episcopalians were usually pretty decent about helping out. They're not called liberal catholic-lites for nothing. Heh.

Honestly, having priests trained in consoling isn't really a bad thing, so long as they're also trained to know when they're way in over their heads and can recommend them to a specialist. Or a pro-bono consoler.

[RedImperator]

Why would they seek *anything* practical, from a church, in the first place?

Once someone has accepted that the corner church is the phone booth for talking to God, is any subsequent behavior too stupid to follow?

A single visit to a psychologist or a psychiatrist costs well over $100, and most medical plans don't cover it. Talking to a priest is free.

You get what you pay for. I think pretty much everybody - practicing religious people included - can be expected to have at least heard of that principle. The fact that something is free does not mean that it is worth having.

Why don't you two geniuses tell me why some people might be relying on the clergy for mental health care?

Because they live in a partial fantasy world in which God really lives in the church, the clergy really communicate with Him, He really is interested in intervening upon the congregants' behalf, and something practical can come of their delusions.

Or, you know, they can't afford mental health care and a priest--who they have been told their whole lives they can trust to speak with about their problems (and in the case of Catholics, Episcopalians, and others whose clergy went to a real seminary instead of St. Jeb and All His Kin's Bible College, they can)--is the only option they have. Yes, there certainly are people who are ignoring the advice of medical professionals, but there are also people--millions of them, possibly, who simply have no better option. The fact so many people are turning to priests for mental health care is likely as much an indictment of the mental health care system in this country as it is of religiosity.

[Kanastrous]

The fact so many people are turning to priests for mental health care is likely as much an indictment of the mental health care system in this country as it is of religiosity.

That's for sure, and true.

[Metatwaddle]

That is one thing. Catholics bear in mind are liberal by christian standards, and they have these people called Jesuits who are very well educated forming a lot (not all) of their policy. Same with the anglicans.

These are churches with an intellectual tradition attached, and child molestation and some wacky policy aside (at least in the US, there are a lot of priests that quasi-openly laugh at the catholic church's position on gay marriage, abortion etc) they actually do good for their congregations taken as a whole.

The protestants, especially the ones that are fundies who DONT have an intellectual tradition attached to their church... not so much

Heh, yeah, that's more or less what I was trying to get across with my post, but you expanded upon it a little better. There's a strong correlation between a church's liberalism and its standards for education, and the Episcopalians and the Catholics (esp. the Jesuits) are probably the best examples. I don't know much about the standards of other liberal churches, like United Church of Christ or even UUs, but the UUs I know are almost as secular as agnostics and atheists and would never deny the existence of mental illnesses in a million years. Numerically they're far outweighed by the Catholics anyway.

[Mayabird]

The protestants, especially the ones that are fundies who DONT have an intellectual tradition attached to their church... not so much

If anything, most of the protestant churches have an anti-intellectual tradition. Psychology is one of those things that people with too much education and learning talk about; therefore, it is Satanic.

I wonder if the actual study mentioned denominations instead of just "conservative" vs. "liberal" churches. Maybe not, as Baylor is a Baptist university and they can't/won't exactly point out any of the dirt on themselves.

[Ariphaos]

My own mental health treatment was delayed by three years because of religious fuckers. I was going to a catholic school and they wanted to see how it would play out and pray for it or some crap like that. My parents enrolled me into a public school after we moved partly to get out of that rut.

Three years earlier on that program would have saved two decades of headaches for me.