Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

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Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

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Global Security wrote:CVN NEWCON - New Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier

At present, Russia has only one operational aircraft carrier, the Nikolai Kuznetsov, which was commissioned in the early 1990s and has recently re-entered service after a prolonged overhaul. On 14 October 2008 President Dmitry Medvedev said that Russia would launch large-scale construction of aircraft carriers within the next two years. “We need new aircraft carrying warships, this is a very important direction for the development of the Navy,” he said on board Russia’s only aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov. He added that the first aircraft carrier should be built by 2013-2015. “We have lost much ground in the 1990s, when we did not build any warships. Now we have to restore an [industrial] basis for aircraft carrier construction and for the Navy as a whole.” On 11 October 2008 Russia's President Dimitry Medvedev said he had instructed the Defense Ministry to develop a program with the aim of starting to build aircraft carriers within two years. "We need to build new aircraft carriers, this is a very important direction for the Navy's development," the president said. "All great countries with powerful navies develop in this way." Prior to these statements, the first new aircraft carrier was not expected until around the year 2020.

The program of building new aircraft carrying cruiser ships that Russia is adopting after President Medvedev’s announcement was not born recently. The first Russian cruiser ships with aircraft carrying capability were built in the 1980s and 1990s. However, a lack of money prevented this programme from its natural course and finally it was abandoned, only to be restored in full and with a vengeance in 2008. It is due to be completed in 2015. A US aircraft carrierformer is a basically floating flight deck with hangars for the aircraft and barracks for pilots and marines. A Russian aircraft-carrying cruiser is a slightly smaller ship with fewer aircraft on board but heavily armed with missiles, both strategic and tactical, plus a strong anti-aircraft capability. The result is that a US carrier cannot travel without its support group, while a Russian cruiser is capable of conducting combat operations alone.
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On 15 May 2005 the navy's commander Admiral Vladimir Kuroyedov told Interfax that the Russian Navy was undertaking a project to develop a new aircraft carrier. "We are beginning work to develop a new aircraft carrier in 2005. Construction is to begin after 2010," Kuroyedov said. "We are launching this development project and will involve leading experts to find out which materials and weapons we'll need and how many aircraft carriers should be built," he said. Kuroyedov earlier told journalists that the navy is planning to put the new carrier into service in the Northern Fleet by 2016-17. Another carrier will be built for the Pacific Fleet, he said. "Deck aviation has a good future. A new multi-purpose aircraft will be created in a few years," Kuroyedov said.

In July 2006 it was reported that Vladislav Putilin, the deputy chairman of the Military-Industrial Commission, stated that the Russian State Armaments Program for 2007-2015 did not cover the development of a number of weapons systems in Russia. In particular, no aircraft carriers are planned for construction. “The issue of our naval air carrier fleet will be decided upon after 2009. I cannot say how many will we have after 2015,” Putilin said. Production of Su-33 naval fighters is not planned for the same reason.

In early 2007 the Russian government announced plans to build in Russia a complex for training deck aircraft pilots. The full-fledged training complex of the type NITKA stayed at Saki town on the Crimean in Ukraine after the disintegration of the USSR. The new one will be constructed over two to three years, and enter service by 2010. Russia, Ukraine and India signed an agreement on the joint using NITKA operated by the Ukrainian Air Force. The Russian Navy does plan on paying a lot of money to the Ukraine for leasing NITKA.

On 12 June 2007 ShipbuildingRu reported that former Secretary of the Security Council and member of the Duma [Russian parliament] Andrei Kokoshin spoke in favor of new aircraft carriers. Kokoshin stated that the new building program could start with a series of small aircraft carriers. Before, when he was the First Deputy Minister of Defense he personally supervised deliveries of the deck aviation to the Russia’s existing aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov".

Admiral of the Fleet Vladimir Masorin, head of Russia's navy, said on 09 July 2007 that the construction of another aircraft carrier for the Russian military fleet would take time. "It is a very expensive operation; therefore, it will be performed in stages: The first stage is the maintenance of the aircraft carrier we have to that we don’t lose the airmen, don’t lose the skills and, in general, don’t lose the aircraft carrier school," Masorin said. "By the end of this year we are supposed to define with industry, with science and the institutes, what kind of aircraft carrier we want to see, and of course, it is supposed to be not huge, not like the Americans, it is supposed to be sufficiently inexpensive, for those airplanes we have and are developing, and after this its design will begin. ... Further, we are hoping, but this is already beyond 2015 somewhere, construction of this ship will begin, but at least, there is a lot to do today."

Admiral Masorin, announced that within 20 to 30 years, there will be two aircraft carrying strike groups in Russia’s navy, each of them including three aircraft carrying ships. "We plan in this time to create two strike aircraft carrying groups in the North and the Far East ... One will be at sea, a second will be getting ready to replace it, and the third will be at anchor ” V. Masorin said. ... Today the U.S. Navy [plans] to have 13 aircraft carriers, the leading “gendarmes” in the world, in it military, We don’t need so many."

While Masorin predicted the first new aircraft carrier could be in service by 2015, the whole carrier program would take 20 to 30 years, the Russian newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda reported.

According to a report in The New York Times on 06 September 2007, Admiral Masorin had said in July 2007 that that the Navy planned to acquire six new aircraft carriers with nuclear propulsion over the coming 20 years. Masorin stated that three of these carriers and their naval escorts would be assigned to the Pacific Fleet, while the other three would serve in European waters with the Northern Fleet. But the shipyard in Nikolayev, Ukraine that built the Soviet Union's five aircraft carriers is politically unavailable to Russia. Russia does not have an existing shipyard with a dock that can construct a [ship] the size of an aircraft carrier.

Adm. Masorin indicated that the new Russian aircraft carrier will not compete in size with the American ships. It will be a nuclear aircraft carrier with the displacement of about 50,000 tons with around 30 planes and helicopters. Before the aircraft carriers are built, Russian shipyards will have to build enough support ships to go with them: rocket cruiser, several destroyers, frigates, submarines, and maintenance ships.

On 17 September 2007, President Vladimir Putin relieved Adm. Masorin as the commander of Russia's navy, the fourth top commander dismissed the appointed of the new Defence Minister, Anatoly Serdyukov. Masorin had reached the age of 60, at which military officers are required to tender their resignation. Putin could have, but did not, extend Masorin's term of service until he was 65. Masorin was replaced by Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky, the commander of Russia's Northern Fleet.

Reports in mid-2007 had suggested that the new carrier would be on the order of 40,000 tons of full water displacement, smaller than the 50,000 suggested by Adm. Masorin. Russia's one active carrier, the "Admiral Kuznetsov" has a full displacement of nearly 59,000 tons. One analysis assumed that the main reason for this smaller displacement was the absence of the necessary ship building facilities in Russia, which are generally in decline after the closure of the St. Peterburg Baltic Plant. Sevmash is not fully ready for the construction of aircraft carrier of great displacement.

The Su-33 is the primary aircraft used on the "Admiral Kuznetsov" aircraft carrier. The Su-33 aeroplane was been developed on the platform of the Su-27. The Su-33 is a single-seat ship-based STOBAR fighter, with upward folding wings and horizontal tail surfaces (for hangar storage); it is equipped with probe-and-drogue flight refuelling capability. The Su-33 is designed for defence of naval ships from aerial threats. In order to maintain a normal strength air group on such a smaller ship, smaller and lighter weight airplanes than the Su-33 might be needed. This suggests that the MiG-29K/KUB may be a future lightweight ship-based fighter for Russia.

The MiG-29K was initiated in 1984 as a Russian Air Force development program for a multi-role fighter, and in 1989 - 1991 the MiG-29K underwent tests aboard the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft-carrying cruiser. The MiG-29K program was revived in response to the decision of the Indian Navy to acquire the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier. This called for the provision of the ship with a multi-role ship-based arrested- landing fighter of the MiG-29K size. The ship's combat group will include 12 MiG-29K planes.

The government approved the “Basic Directions of Development of Civil Naval Equipment 2009-2016” program on 08 November 2007. It allotted 140 billion rubles over that period for the establishment of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, of which 91 billion rubles was to come from the federal budget. The director of United Shipbuilding Yury Yarov and chairman of the board Deputy Prime Minister Sergey Naryshkin were presented to the government. The USC planned to build 30-35 platforms for the exploration and production of oil and gas on the continental shelf by 2015. Subsequently, the corporation was to focus on the construction of tankers of 140,000-160,000 tons displacement, with the first of these ships to be launched in 2015. But existing wharves can handle ships of a maximum capacity of 70,000 tons displacement. Projects to build new wharves in three regions – western, northern and far-eastern – were to be chosen by VEB–Development Bank in the first half of 2008. While the formation of the United Shipbuilding Corporation and plans for new commercial ship-building facilities do not directly impact plans for aircraft carriers, there may be indirect connections between new commercial ship-building facilities and a competition to build new aircraft carriers.

Russia's Navy commander, Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky, said in July 2008 that the Navy command had decided to form in the future five or six aircraft carrier task forces to be deployed with the Northern and Pacific fleets.

On 07 September 2008 Maj. Gen. Nikolai Kuklev, the deputy commander of Russia's naval aviation, said "We are considering extending the service life of the carrier. It will stay in service until 2020 and may be even until 2025." The general also confirmed that a decision to build new aircraft carriers for the Russian Navy had been adopted. On 24 September 2008 Vyacheslav Popov, a former commander of the Northern Fleet who now sits in the upper house of parliament, said Moscow may offer Ukraine contracts to build aircraft carriers for the Russian Navy. He commented on Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov's statement on Tuesday that Russia could make several lucrative proposals to Ukraine that could convince Kiev to allow Russia's Black Sea Fleet to remain in Sevastopol after 2017, when the lease on the naval base in the Crimea expires. "We can offer Ukraine extensive and lucrative opportunities in the sphere of shipbuilding. They have the Nikolaev shipyards that used to build aircraft carriers during Soviet times," Popov said. "These shipyards are bankrupt and abandoned at present and with mutual consent we could help reactivate them," Popov said. Russia currently lacks the capacity to build aircraft carriers and modernizing its existing shipyards would be an expensive and lengthy proposition. Popov said though that this proposal "may become a sensitive issue as Ukraine's pro-Western president, Viktor Yushchenko, is seeking NATO and EU membership for the country.
Slightly edited for spelling, but you get the idea.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Col. Crackpot »

Will they make them out rust so they match the color scheme of the rest of their fleet?
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by montypython »

It would be better for the Russians to expand their shipyard capacity to handle 85000 ton warships first in places like Severomorsk, Novorosisk, and Komsomolsk-Amur in order to have the means to properly construct and repair/overall nuclear carriers. Any nuclear carrier design smaller than the Ulyanovsk class just won't be efficient enough to justify the costs, just look at the Charles de Gaulle for that.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Because clearly what an underfunded Russian military needs now is true blue water aerial projection capability, and not addressing the serious shortfalls in everything else.

It's a bit like the RN getting the CVF, only for the rest of the fleet to be whittled down to row boats with a rifle and a grenade for arms.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Col. Crackpot wrote:Will they make them out rust so they match the color scheme of the rest of their fleet?
Actually, they have started taking steps a few years ago to increase the maintenance of the fleet and brought a number of half completed ships back into service.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Guardsman Bass »

What's their strategic goal in having this type of thing? Where are they hoping to project power with it, and why? They won't exactly save them if the Chinese start moving into Siberia, although they might be able to be annoying to the US fleets in the open sea.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

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"We need to build new aircraft carriers, this is a very important direction for the Navy's development," the president said. "All great countries with powerful navies develop in this way."
Uh oh, this sounds like a "boutique-fleet" type of project. Adding aircraft carriers (CVLs at that) to service national pride rather than for practical strategic reasons. Bound to be an expensive boondoggle which will have a negligible impact upon the combat effectiveness of a withered navy.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Guardsman Bass wrote:What's their strategic goal in having this type of thing? Where are they hoping to project power with it, and why? They won't exactly save them if the Chinese start moving into Siberia, although they might be able to be annoying to the US fleets in the open sea.
I think they still regard the United States as a clear and open threat. And the United States still has carriers.

The Chinese yeah. But it's not like they haven't spent anything on their army.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Count Chocula »

Could it be that their Backfire wings aren't seen as effective against the threats the Russians think they're likely to face? A carrier is a tactical weapon, not a strategic one. Perhaps this is an indication that the Russians foresee more low-level security-type conflicts in their maritime territories.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

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An aircraft carrier is a good way to command power in international affairs; shooting confrontations with US carriers are not a serious consideration. That means thermonuclear war. However even a single squadron of the latest’s Sukhoi flying off a deck offers a serious terrorist mud hut destruction and anti camel capability, plus the ability to match most minor countries entire militaries.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

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It would be better for the Russians to expand their shipyard capacity to handle 85000 ton warships first in places like Severomorsk, Novorosisk, and Komsomolsk-Amur in order to have the means to properly construct and repair/overall nuclear carriers. Any nuclear carrier design smaller than the Ulyanovsk class just won't be efficient enough to justify the costs, just look at the Charles de Gaulle for that.
They're building a 100,000t facility at Severodvinsk for that very reason, IIRC.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Count Chocula wrote:Could it be that their Backfire wings aren't seen as effective against the threats the Russians think they're likely to face? A carrier is a tactical weapon, not a strategic one. Perhaps this is an indication that the Russians foresee more low-level security-type conflicts in their maritime territories.
Backfire wings have their uses. However, when attacking a carrier group, Backfires aren't the only assets in the theatre. You also have submarines, like the Oscars and Akulas, long range aviation assault fighters, and other bombers, and surface warships. Ideally, you'd also have carrier aircraft running around suppressing enemy aviation as well.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

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Carriers are needed. Did people just forget that survivability of one's navy, in case of war both large and small, is greatly dependent on carriers?
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I say good on Russia. I hope that while they're doing this, they're also taking the necessary steps to modernize and maintain the rest of their armed forces, as opposed to sucking up their budget into "white elephant" projects.

Hopefully, in the future, we will see Russia becoming more participative in the world stage and hopefully we can see Russia assert more influence in international affairs, working with a coalition of willing allies to stride on into the future with chins up and boots a goose-stepping.

But seriously, it's good to see Russia getting back on its feet. It's a great country and it deserves a lot better.

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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Pelranius »

I can believe it. The claim a bit back about 5 to 6 carrier groups is unrealistic, unless that admiral was talking about helicopter assault ships as well.

I wonder what the Russians will have to forgo for the CVNs (you'd need at least three to make it a worthwhile expenditure).
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:Will they make them out rust so they match the color scheme of the rest of their fleet?
Actually, they have started taking steps a few years ago to increase the maintenance of the fleet and brought a number of half completed ships back into service.
They did step up maintenance and bring a fair number of ships back from the grave. However those ships brought back are not in the same good condition as properly maintained ships would be. You can't let vessels go that far and bring them back to 100% condition. They're at best a stop-gap measure until such time as new construction arrives, if it does.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Stormbringer wrote:They did step up maintenance and bring a fair number of ships back from the grave. However those ships brought back are not in the same good condition as properly maintained ships would be. You can't let vessels go that far and bring them back to 100% condition. They're at best a stop-gap measure until such time as new construction arrives, if it does.
Better than nothing, really. They have to be judicious with their expenditure, especially when there are lots of training issues to tackle.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Sidewinder »

Stas Bush wrote:Carriers are needed. Did people just forget that survivability of one's navy, in case of war both large and small, is greatly dependent on carriers?
The US has a navy because it has many overseas territories (Hawaii, Guam, the Virgin Islands), it's reliant upon overseas trade for much of its wealth (oil tankers from the Middle East, imports from and exports to China), and its land forces are committed to support allied governments (Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea, maybe Taiwan if China gets uppity). The UK, China, and Japan have navies (Maritime Self-Defense Force in Japan's case) because they also have overseas territories (the Falkland Islands, maybe Taiwan if you believe the CCP propaganda, the Ryukyu Islands), need to defend trade routes, and in the UK's case, has committed land forces to support allied governments.

Why does Russia need a navy? Let's see, overseas territories... Well, there's the Kuril/Chishima Islands. I guess those are worth defending.

Trade routes... Isn't most of Russia's trade conducted through railroads and other land routes?

Allied governments that need support... Does Cuba still count?

No offense, but I'm reminded of the contrast between the Kingdom of Prussia, which had no navy because it doesn't need one, and the Second Reich, which wanted colonies and therefore created a need for a navy, but also tension unnecessary tension with a former ally (the UK, a Prussian ally during the Napoleonic Wars), with disasterous consequences.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

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Sidewinder wrote: The US has a navy because it has many overseas territories (Hawaii, Guam, the Virgin Islands), it's reliant upon overseas trade for much of its wealth (oil tankers from the Middle East, imports from and exports to China), and its land forces are committed to support allied governments (Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea, maybe Taiwan if China gets uppity). The UK, China, and Japan have navies (Maritime Self-Defense Force in Japan's case) because they also have overseas territories (the Falkland Islands, maybe Taiwan if you believe the CCP propaganda, the Ryukyu Islands), need to defend trade routes, and in the UK's case, has committed land forces to support allied governments.

Why does Russia need a navy? Let's see, overseas territories... Well, there's the Kuril/Chishima Islands. I guess those are worth defending.

Trade routes... Isn't most of Russia's trade conducted through railroads and other land routes?

Allied governments that need support... Does Cuba still count?

No offense, but I'm reminded of the contrast between the Kingdom of Prussia, which had no navy because it doesn't need one, and the Second Reich, which wanted colonies and therefore created a need for a navy, but also tension unnecessary tension with a former ally (the UK, a Prussian ally during the Napoleonic Wars), with disasterous consequences.
It was a little more complicated than that, but it's not simply the issue of merely having naval power but its flexibility of use that's more significant.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Count Chocula »

Russia has many former territories (and some still-Russian lands) that are on seas that border other countries. I will list them from West to East, since that's how I'm reading them from this site:

Baltic Sea: saltwater port for St. Petersburg, has former USSR client states Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania to the south, all with Baltic access, with Finland and Sweden to the immediate and near west;

Barents Sea: naval access to the north Atlantic, Norwegian Sea, Greenland Sea, North Sea and Arctic Ocean, also provides passage east via the Arctic routes. This is a logical route to project force in Europe if needed or send support east to combat China or Japan;

Black Sea: Ukraine to the north, Moldova, Romania and Bulgaria to the east, Turkey to the south with a narrow spit of land to the Mediterranean and all that implies, Georgia cater-corner above Turkey on the southeast side of the Black Sea. This is a logical body of water to base CVNs for support of interests in the Mediterranean and Middle East;

Caspian Sea: totally landlocked and a potential deathtrap for any deepwater naval forces, but its southern end is the northern shore of IRAN, making it a logical naval location for either support of, or attacks on, Iran and Persian Gulf shipping;

Farther east, MUCH farther East, we have Russia ending at the Sea of Okhotsk, Bering Sea, and sharing the Sea of Japan's shoreline with the Koreas, Japan, and from there south to the South China Sea and China. This is also the prime route to Australia and Antarctica via the North Pacific Ocean/South Pacific Ocean, Philippine Sea, and Indian Ocean.

While the US does have both more shoreline and more interests abroad, it looks like there's plenty of reason for Russia to have a real carrier fleet. Hell, if the French have a carrier the Russians should have 10!
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Sidewinder wrote:Trade routes... Isn't most of Russia's trade conducted through railroads and other land routes?
You haven't read much of Russian history haven't you?

There is a reason why St. Petersburg was built where it is. It was meant to be a hub of sea trade. Peter the Great constructed a navy specifically to deal with the Swedish Kings who either raided or invaded.

Also, the railway network can't extend all over the world. There's plenty of good reason to have sea trade to access markets in other parts of Asia, Australia, S. America and what not.
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Re: Russia to launch large-scale construction of CVNs

Post by K. A. Pital »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:There's plenty of good reason to have sea trade to access markets in other parts of Asia, Australia, S. America and what not.
Economies of scale even dictate that massive goods transfers to and from Europe, India and China should be done via bulkers (as it is done now).

Also, Siderwinder's post totally ignored the core of my argument: in case of war with any power, a carrier increases the survivability of one's Navy. Imagine that you have a lone Kirov wandering somewhere in the Mediterranean, and there's a sudden conflict with, say, Ukraine. How long would this powerful ship survive if Ukraine sends it's aviation to barrage the Kirov? It has a long arm, but it's blind without aviation. A short-sight is bad for a ship.

How imagine there's a Kirov and a carrier in a taskforce. Suddenly there are planes to give targeting to Kirov's OTH missiles, to ward off enemy aviation trying to attack said Kirov, and lock up enemy aviation in battle, or exhaust the enemy to make it easy prey for Kirov's S-300 SAMs.

Russia is only doing what the USSR did in the 1980, slowly trying to make a carrier fleet capable of protecting it's surface and submarine combatants alike, in any part of the world - the USSR planned that 4 Kiev, 2 Kuznetzov and 2 Ulyanovsk carriers would be enough for the first time, and later the fleet should be 4 CVNs + 4 CVs (a total of 8 carriers). Russia is smaller, so it could do with 4-5 carriers.

Yes, that protection of nations includes Cuba and Venezuela, which are once again taking up the role of Russian partners in LA. No longer proxies, but allied nations. Hard to grasp that the US is not the only nation which has foreign nations to defend, eh?
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