SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread III

[Steve]

Those are covert attacks and nobody can be quite sure who has attacked them.

[RogueIce]

And bombing Astaria and sinking all their ships wouldn't lead to a war with Astaria's allies? It would seem that a state of war already exists here.

Technically not, so long as it's only one nation. Japanistan had a two-power defensive pact, which means they'll only come to Astaria's defense (theoretically) if two or more nations attack them (and vice versa for Japanistan).

If it's just one nation, at least publically, then Japanistan is under no obligation to defend them.

[Raj Ahten]

Those are covert attacks and nobody can be quite sure who has attacked them.

I really doubt keeping the perpetrators secret would truly be possible for long, especially against Japanistan given all the electronic surveillance they do. And even if it is, I'd say the CSR and Shepistan are gambling big here (The CSR far more than Shepistan). A paranoid regime like Japanistan could very well see these "covert" attacks as the activities of any one of its rivals and act accordingly. The MESS could also be hit in retaliation for something they didn't do (which may be Shep's intention, though if Japanistan is close with Astoria he is risking his pipeline of high tech weapons to do so). A very dangerous situation indeed.

[Norseman]

Since Japanistan probably doesn't want to get involved I'd have to find fairly ironclad proof before they'd do anything. Other than sell me weapons that is.

[Norseman]

I should incidentally make it clear that the submarine attack on Kings Port occurs AFTER the third post which I've just made, as we agreed earlier on.

[Master_Baerne]

Japanistan will have to decide whether it values Shepistan or Astaria more as an ally. And with as little offense to Norseman as possible, Shepistan is vastly more useful as a sponge for MESS attacks.

And the Duke himself will be attending the Sirnoth Shindig.

[TimothyC]

Norseman - What does that last bit say?

[Zor]

Just something i was musing about, considering the fact that Astaria has been basically cut off from the rest of the world since the 1920s (and likewise the Politcal Movements), would not Astaria be backwards in other areas such as in Woman's Rights, LGBT Rights and so on?

Zor

[K. A. Pital]

So Astaria decided to run mop-ups in South Veleria. Very well.
*reads notes*
I'll wait until all Astarian plotlines conclude until making any steps forward.

[PeZook]

So Astaria decided to run mop-ups in South Veleria. Very well.
*reads notes*
I'll wait until all Astarian plotlines conclude until making any steps forward.

It will happen in a few hours.

[Norseman]

Just something i was musing about, considering the fact that Astaria has been basically cut off from the rest of the world since the 1920s (and likewise the Politcal Movements), would not Astaria be backwards in other areas such as in Woman's Rights, LGBT Rights and so on?

The head of the Bureau of State Security is a woman, and one of the Astarian liaisons is a female Captain of the bureau. So no. As for LGBT, uhm, well no, not really. Astaria has developed on its own, but it hasn't been frozen.

[PeZook]

Boom!

Slavery ends in Astaria.

I wonder who saw it coming

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Boom!

Slavery ends in Astaria.

I wonder who saw it coming

Maybe it's time to do a time reversal.

[K. A. Pital]

*makes notes*
In several weeks, once he nationalizes the slaves, the C.S.R. will officially send a letter of diplomatic contact. The goal? If his state "owns" all slaves, there will be a demand to immediately check records and slaves, and release from slavery all foreign-born citizens who were "enslaved" in other territories and return them to country of origin. Andd a demand for foreign observers.

In return the CSR will recognize Astaria as a nation and cease hostilities against what would be considered a viable nation now.

[PeZook]

Take note: port attacks happen after the speech, since nobody knows what happened yet. Reports from my liaison officers and the Byzantine diplomat will start circulating amongst diplomatic circles soon.

The problem is, of course, that technically, slave laws are still on the books, there just aren't any slaves, and buying new ones is illegal.

It will be a while before the middle classes will figure out what happened, and we can reasonably expect a political shitstorm for the Regent once it happens.

[Norseman]

*makes notes*
In several weeks, once he nationalizes the slaves, the C.S.R. will officially send a letter of diplomatic contact. The goal? If his state "owns" all slaves, there will be a demand to immediately check records and slaves, and release from slavery all foreign-born citizens who were "enslaved" in other territories and return them to country of origin. Andd a demand for foreign observers.

First of all the state doesn't own the slaves, they're now indentured servants, which, if you read the post means that the only right they lack is the right to decide where they work (and to get paid). Secondly Astaria will refuse to accept any note from the CSR. However much of what you are talking about is already done, I've shown this to some of the other players:

Labour Mobilization Act of 2010
Nationalizes all slaves, but it also converts all state owned slaves into indentured servants. Note that the latter is new; previously state slaves were never sold, and generally emancipated after 10-20 years of service. However this bill makes them indentured servants right off the bat.

According to Astarian law indentured servants have the right of life and limb, of marriage, of property, and the right to buy their release from indenture. This of course makes their situation far better than it was before.

Labour Registration Act of 2010
Stipulates that all indentured servants must pass before a commission (3 people) to be assessed for their usefulness to the war effort. Their previous masters will receive an option of leasing any indentured servant not needed for the war effort. Such a lease costs 5% of the compensation amount a year. Said compensation is paid in government bonds by the way, and said bonds do not pay interest while you are leasing the indentured servant they were issued to compensate for. Note that leases may be traded, primarily to avoid ossifying the labour market.

This basically ensures that the economy won't collapse by depriving people of their labour. However it also ensures that any illegal slaves (e.g. foreigners) are bound to be found out as they are brought before the Labour Registration Commissions. Said commissions will always be staffed by people from outside the district where they operate, and they will spend at least ten minutes alone with each slave. The lease scheme, which most owners will accept, ensures that the Astarian state won't have to pay interest in up to ten years. Combined with the 5% per annum reduction, inflation, and economic growth this means that the compensation will be rather small by the time its actually paid.

Luxury Imports Act of 2010
Prohibits imports of certain luxuries, and imposes a heavy tax on others. This is to prevent frivolous expenditures in time of war. One of the imports that are absolutely banned happens to be slaves, and any slave imported is of course immediately confiscated.

So technically this is not abolition, it's just that there aren't any more slaves, and there's no way of getting more.

Astaria will quietly request the help of Byzantium, Pezookia, and Tonkin (the nations with whom they've had most contacts), to help them repatriate any illegal slaves found by the registration sweep. On the record these missions will not be observers, since Astaria considers itself quite capable of enforcing its own laws.

In return the CSR will recognize Astaria as a nation and cease hostilities against what would be considered a viable nation now.

The problem is that you seem to think the Astarians are willing to talk to the CSR at all, they're not. Any government that cringed and made peace would find itself swinging from a gibbet. Especially since the attack on the port occurs after this message was issued.

[PeZook]

For all it's worth, PeZookia is willing to act as a middle-man and help bring about the end of the war.

[K. A. Pital]

Secondly Astaria will refuse to accept any note from the CSR.

In that case the CSR will still consider Astaria a nonexistent entity and proceed with achieving it's objectives.

Especially since the attack on the port occurs after this message was issued.

It would take days to reach the world anyway. Astaria is remote and under a comm blackout now if I understood correctly.

The CSR conducted the assault on the seaport withoout prior knowledge of your measures. However, we won't shed a tear if you paint us black some more.

[Norseman]

By the way Astarian televisions are filled with equivalents of such carefully researched documentaries such as He May Be a Communist and Air Defences. Just to keep the home fires burning.

As for the seaport I've been checking with people, and apparently fertilizer shipments and other explosive shipments are loaded in seperate areas from other cargoes (for obvious reasons), and there are generally restrictions on how much can be carried. So I'll bear that in mind when I write the reaction to the seaport attack.

Astaria is not under a comms blackout though, telephones and the internet and international radio still works. It's just massive travel restrictions, curfews, etc, etc. In short hunkering down to receive massive WMD attacks. Meanwhile the economy is moving to at least a partial wartime footing.

Of course the abolition of slavery will mean a massive economic crash, as indentured servants can be forced to work as hard as slaves. I'm picturing a 5%-8% drop in GNP in 2010, and a continued 3%-5% drop in 2011, with things maybe easing up in 2012. Increased trade due to the need for foreign currency, or rather foreign weaponry, may force the government to implement domestic rationing.

[K. A. Pital]

As for the seaport I've been checking with people, and apparently fertilizer shipments and other explosive shipments are loaded in seperate areas from other cargoes (for obvious reasons), and there are generally restrictions on how much can be carried.

Yeah. But there should be still at least 1000 tons of the crap. Such a cargo would detonate violently and essentially become a similar incident as the above mentioned real life explosions of ships.

[PeZook]

The curious thing about this war is that neither side declared one, and the CSR doesn't even recognize Astaria. The Reds didn't issue any demands, either

PeZookian officials will hit up the CSR politickos quietly and see if we can get the Republic to stop bombing and torpedoing Astaria at least.

After all, if we get the Astarian markets to open up...hoo, boy. More than 100 million consumers!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The curious thing about this war is that neither side declared one, and the CSR doesn't even recognize Astaria. The Reds didn't issue any demands, either

PeZookian officials will hit up the CSR politickos quietly and see if we can get the Republic to stop bombing and torpedoing Astaria at least.

After all, if we get the Astarian markets to open up...hoo, boy. More than 100 million consumers!

Not really. These aren't the most sophisticated of consumers, nor are their buying power comparable to 1st world.

[Setzer]

Money is money. I'm sure there's something you can sell in large quantities to Astaria.

[PeZook]

Not really. These aren't the most sophisticated of consumers, nor are their buying power comparable to 1st world.

...yet.

We could sell them all sorts of stuff, from cheap cars through modern electronics to massive Shroomanian internet porn sites

Even if they just want to have a couple cans of coke each, that's still half a billion yearly right there

[Setzer]

And I can set up brothels, since they can't fuck their slaves any more.