T:SCC 2x06: "The Tower Is Tall But The Fall Is Short"

[Thanas]

After a week of baseball, T:SCC returns today at the usual time. The episode is called "The Tower Is Tall But The Fall Is Short".

The T-1001 mysteriously seeks a doctor, while Sarah, John, and Cameron find someone else from their list. A woman from the future arrives to see Derek.

The episode is written by Denise Thé, the thirds staff writer of T:SCC.

For those who want to be spoiled, here is her blog entry - be warned though, it contains multiple spoilers for tonights episode.

[Braedley]

Just read the first 4 paragraphs of that blog (and only the first 4, it gives a good synopsis with much spoilage) and I can't wait to watch this tonight.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Oh wow, I think we know now why the T-1001 is keeping the kid around. She learning how to make an intelligence.

[eyexist]

And this episode confirms that John did kill Sarkissian.

[Anguirus]

I voted 4...nothing but minor quibbles here. I do wish that the writers would overcome the temptation to send new Terminators back all the time...however, this is more than compensated for by the terrific fight scene and the mystery of why Skynet would want to kill a psychologist who now seems to be helping Weaver with the Turk. I wonder what Weaver would have done if she had identified John Connor...

Anyway, I'm glad we finally found out that John killed Sarkissian, and that he's at least starting to deal with it. The idea of soldiers going AWOL to the past is an intriguing one as well, and an obvious idea when one finds out (as we did here) that the Resistance commands multiple time machines. Indeed, one would expect that the idea of evacuating into the past en masse has been floated. Also: Future Connor is apparently having some serious problems keeping his herd of reprogrammed Terminators under control.

God damn did I love both Weavers in this episode. I'm pretty sure that psychologist is going to bring them and the Connors together at some point before the end of the season.

[Shroom Man 777]

How was Cameron in this episode which I haven't seen?

[eyexist]

How was Cameron in this episode which I haven't seen?

Cam turned that other female terminator into a pretzel - literally..

Also, that terminator's chip was the same as Vick's ( albeit destroyed via self-destruction) confirming that Cameron is apparantly a unique and individual snowflake in the terminator population.

[charlemagne]

I rated it a 5, terrific episode.

Derek's girlfriend may not be that AWOL, she kept surveillance photos of John and the gang which she swept under the bed while he got her something to drink, so what is she doing, keeping another eye on John maybe? Or checking on Derek? (Oh, and Derek should lose the hobo style. He needs to shower more often and get some clean clothes.)

Weaver keeping the real kid around is a terrifying concept, and her doing better now in impersonating the child's mother is creeping me out even more.

The elevator fight scene was cool, interesting way of disabling a Terminator The interlude with the boy and his parents was funny, and not overdone. He caught a climpse of them starting to fight again when he and his parents got out and the doors closed, I guess he'll have some interesting dreams the next few nights. And I'm also glad that Cameron finally kicked ass again without needing help to finish the opponent off.

Finally seeing what happened with Sarkissian was cool. The AI being bored was cool, and Weaver deciding to treat it like a child and hire the shrink was kinda obvious, but still nice. It seems like Sarah and John might keep seeing the Doc, so propably that's the link that'll bring them to Weaver.

[Xon]

It is just so awesome when you can have a character say what amounts to "damn I need therapy" and have no time for it and scheduals it to occur in the past.

I voted 4...nothing but minor quibbles here. I do wish that the writers would overcome the temptation to send new Terminators back all the time...however, this is more than compensated for by the terrific fight scene and the mystery of why Skynet would want to kill a psychologist who now seems to be helping Weaver with the Turk.

A well ajusted Skynet would not be the same geonocial skynet we all know of. Not all the dangers to skynet are physical. How it develops is just as important on if it develops.

[charlemagne]

One thing I forgot to add: nice subtlety with the suicide theme, too, with Cameron apparently thinking even more about it after the other Terminator self-destructed (she's just sitting there reading that leaflet on suicide again).

[eyexist]

Either of you catch the teaser for next week's episode? It seems that this will be the one where one of the main characters die.

[Thanas]

^Spoiler speculation in tiny text please.

I rated this a 4 as well. Excellent episode, but not as great as 2x04, for example. A good introduction for Jesse.

Four things came to mind -
a) interesting that it was Cameron and not Sarah who first found out he may have psychological problems and that Sarah didn't even consider it until she heard the tape.
b) Weever and the kid...ouch. Poor kid.
c) Cameron completely dominated that fight. I therefore conclude that it was an inferior model. Maybe one of her predecessors?
d) The Turk is becoming more and more aware. And apparently it has a sense of humor. Nice. I have the sneaking suspicion that if Skynet is stopped, it won't happen because John et al blow it up, but because it is treated properly. Of course, with Weaver in charge....

[CaiusWickersham]

Either of you catch the teaser for next week's episode? It seems that this will be the one where one of the main characters die.

What's the pool on who it's going to be?

John and Sarah are out, that's pretty much darn certain.
Cameron and Derek -- possible but highly doubtful
Ellison -- a bit more likely, but I think there's more story potential for him
Cromartie -- my prime pick now, I don't see what else they can do with him

[Thanas]

^what part of me asking you to kindly post spoiler speculation in tiny text did you miss?

[His Divine Shadow]

It would seem not everything is okay back in the future with Connor and all the "metal" he's using.

[eyexist]

^Spoiler speculation in tiny text please.

Whoops, my fault. I'll start up a new thread about it.

a) interesting that it was Cameron and not Sarah who first found out he may have psychological problems and that Sarah didn't even consider it until she heard the tape.

Classic case of denial. Heaven forbid Sarah get called out on being a shitty mother.

c) Cameron completely dominated that fight. I therefore conclude that it was an inferior model. Maybe one of her predecessors?

I think that Cameron just excels in close-quarter combat. The last time we saw her do well against a termie (without a grenade launcher ) was vs. Vick in the armored car. In the other instances she gets thrown about like a rag doll and only wins due to capitalizing on distractions.

[Thanas]

It would seem not everything is okay back in the future with Connor and all the "metal" he's using.

I would wager that this is not an accurate portrayal of the situation. Remember, this is a grunt we are talking about here. We do know that some of the reprogrammed terminators malfunction (like in Dungeons and Dragons). Overall though, metal must offer a distinct kind of battle advantage for Connor to be using it that much.

I also doubt that Major Shaw - ahem - "Jessie" has the whole picture. If Connor really has at least one terminator working with each resistance group, the resistance must have captured a lot of them.

[Thanas]

^Spoiler speculation in tiny text please.

Whoops, my fault. I'll start up a new thread about it.

Feel free to do so, but also feel free to speculate in this thread in tiny text if you want to.

Classic case of denial. Heaven forbid Sarah get called out on being a shitty mother.

I do not know. She seemed rather agitated in the premier, so I am puzzled as to why she would disregard that in this epsiode.

c) Cameron completely dominated that fight. I therefore conclude that it was an inferior model. Maybe one of her predecessors?

I think that Cameron just excels in close-quarter combat. The last time we saw her do well against a termie (without a grenade launcher ) was vs. Vick in the armored car. In the other instances she gets thrown about like a rag doll and only wins due to capitalizing on distractions.

I am not so sure about that. We have seen the following fights:

Cameron vs Cromartie in the S1 premier: no clear advantage though Cameron managed to disable Cromartie.
Cameron vs T-888 in 1x02 - A clear win for Cameron with the Terminator choosing to flee.
Cameron vs Carter - Carter seems to have the advantage there.
Cameron vs Vick - no clear winner.
Cameron vs T-888 in the future - clear win, though due to grenade launcher.
Cameron vs unknown model - pretzel.

Note that she isn't scared by Cromartie and chooses to engage him in the S1 season finale.

So I would say that she can certainly hold her own against a T-888. The fact that she absolutely dominated this fight - note that the other terminator got only two punches in - seems to suggest to me that her model line is not even a close match to that one.

[eyexist]

I believe that model was an upgraded T888, set to self destruct it's chip if it's been disabled.

[Thanas]

I believe that model was an upgraded T888, set to self destruct it's chip if it's been disabled.

I don't think so. Remember, all T-888s share two defining characteristics: a) they are male and b) massive in size. They are after all derived from the T-800.

If that model would be a T-888, that would be like saying the Puma IFV is a Leopard III.

[Peptuck]

This episode continues the series' fine tradition of somehow managing to cram two episodes' worth of content into a single episode wthout sacrificing anything.

I saw nothing wrong with this episode, and when I realized that it was essentially going to be a psychological one, I was instantly floored. All of the characters, especially John and Sarah, were given some brilliant writing and development in this episode, but I found the most interesting part to be Weaver's relationship with her daughter. It was creepy yet somewhat heartwarming at the same time, and I got the impression that she might actually care about Savannah. The Derek/Jessie subplot was tied in well, along with the suicide theme.

Only quibble I have is a missed opportunity: Cameron in the psychiatrist's office. Then again, we've had pretty much an entire episode devoted to Cameron's psychological issues, so I guess that's fine.

Under most circumstances I would have been annoyed with our Terminator Of The Week, but the fight scene between her and Cameron, complete with the absolute owning Cameron dished out, rocked hard enough to make my annoyance sit down and be quiet.

I'm left thinking that the reason Cameron defeated this one was because it was a smaller female model, and thus not as strong. All the male models she either broke even with or was marginally weaker than, though that could simply be due to battlefield luck; you pit two people who are the exact same in strength and stamina against each other, and one of them will eventually get the upper hand through luck, skill, or chance, after all.

Looking forward to next week's episode.

[Thanas]

Fox Video on filming the scene.

Apparently none of that was special effects, they hired a contortionist.

Also, they say that Cameron is a more advanced model than the pretzelator, thereby confirming my theory.

They also mention that as an advance model, she would know where to strike for damage.

[Anguirus]

Remember, all T-888s share two defining characteristics: a) they are male and b) massive in size.

All the confirmed ones are male, but Fake Greenway and Carter were not what I'd call "massive." Cameron and others have said that different chassis are used for different missions. I'd buy the Pretzelator (hah) as an 888. We know it's apparently designed and/or built at a later date than Vick, due to the self-destruct.

I'm not sure I'd read too much into Cameron's ownage here. Even in a robot fight, luck and experience will count for a lot. They may well have been equal in strength. Cameron is probably the most experienced Terminator at taking down other Terminators, not counting some of Connor's Terminators in the future. That's probably what's coming into play; she's an advanced infiltrator, not an advanced tactical combat model (as far as we know, anyway). Even the comment from the Fox site seems to describe experience (in the field or programmed) rather than innate effectiveness.

What really struck me is how similar the programs still are between Cameron and this week's bad Terminator. They IDed each other at the same moment because they used the same exact movements in trying to get to the same place. I didn't think 888s acted that similarly, much less Cameron and another model.

[Drooling Iguana]

d) The Turk is becoming more and more aware. And apparently it has a sense of humor. Nice. I have the sneaking suspicion that if Skynet is stopped, it won't happen because John et al blow it up, but because it is treated properly. Of course, with Weaver in charge....

It'll be interesting to contrast how Skynet is raised with how John was raised.

[Thanas]

Remember, all T-888s share two defining characteristics: a) they are male and b) massive in size.

All the confirmed ones are male, but Fake Greenway and Carter were not what I'd call "massive." Cameron and others have said that different chassis are used for different missions. I'd buy the Pretzelator (hah) as an 888. We know it's apparently designed and/or built at a later date than Vick, due to the self-destruct.

That still does not make it a T-888. Carter was certainly very muscular. Look at John standing in front of Carter - Carter utterly dwarfs him. Greenway certainly is different. Yet he may very well have been built for the very specific mission of infiltrating the plant.

Furthermore, the biggest obstacle against this being a T-888 is that every T-888 have been able to immediately identify Cameron as a cyborg, due to them scanning her. This one did not.

What really struck me is how similar the programs still are between Cameron and this week's bad Terminator. They IDed each other at the same moment because they used the same exact movements in trying to get to the same place. I didn't think 888s acted that similarly, much less Cameron and another model.

The do not, which is another argument against this being a T-888.

d) The Turk is becoming more and more aware. And apparently it has a sense of humor. Nice. I have the sneaking suspicion that if Skynet is stopped, it won't happen because John et al blow it up, but because it is treated properly. Of course, with Weaver in charge....

It'll be interesting to contrast how Skynet is raised with how John was raised.

Good point.