T:SCC 2x06: "The Tower Is Tall But The Fall Is Short"

[Braedley]

Good episode, but for my taste, a little too slow in parts for it to earn a 5. Some very interesting parts and tidbits, but I lost my focus for a second in spots, which looses points.

Also, someone should give that casting agent a medal! I had caught a glimpse of the Derek/Jessie interaction while watching what ever was opposite this episode on NBC (Heroes maybe?) and didn't quite place her immediately, but knew I had seen her before and that I had liked her acting.

[Anguirus]

Furthermore, the biggest obstacle against this being a T-888 is that every T-888 have been able to immediately identify Cameron as a cyborg, due to them scanning her. This one did not.

Cromartie didn't.

Only Vick did AFAIK, and he only scanned her and found out she was an "unknown cyborg" after he took a hit from her.

[Thanas]

Furthermore, the biggest obstacle against this being a T-888 is that every T-888 have been able to immediately identify Cameron as a cyborg, due to them scanning her. This one did not.

Cromartie didn't.

Only Vick did AFAIK, and he only scanned her and found out she was an "unknown cyborg" after he took a hit from her.

Yeah, upon reflection you're right.

Still doesn't mean the one is a T-888.

[Anguirus]

^ True, I did note how extremely small she is for a Terminator (she is pretty much smaller than Summer Glau in most dimensions).

If instead of being a small 888 she's a mystery model, it might not be one the show is going to get round to solving. They seem to be unceremoniously dropping Terminators who aren't named Cromartie left and right now.

[Thanas]

^ True, I did note how extremely small she is for a Terminator (she is pretty much smaller than Summer Glau in most dimensions).

Which is my main objection to labeling her a T-888. Going from Cromartie to Greenway is one thing, but going from Greenway to that petite model...

If instead of being a small 888 she's a mystery model, it might not be one the show is going to get round to solving. They seem to be unceremoniously dropping Terminators who aren't named Cromartie left and right now.

You'll never know. There might be a few episodes in the future where having female terminators would be way better for an infiltration job. I wouldn't rule out seeing female models in the future.

[Shroom Man 777]

I just saw the episode, and yay! Character development - with everyone (except Cameron), from Sarah and John to Derek and even Weaver! Robot action! I give it a 4 - it was good, but not awesome.

I hope we will get to see more Cameron character development, mang. After Allison from Palmdale... I want to see more of her... wiff John! They're so kawaii! ^___________^

Oh, and I thought that this episode's Triple 8 was also cute!

Fox Video on filming the scene.

Apparently none of that was special effects, they hired a contortionist.

Also, they say that Cameron is a more advanced model than the pretzelator, thereby confirming my theory.

They also mention that as an advance model, she would know where to strike for damage.

Cameron is an advanced model when compared to the other T-888s out there. Her HUD is different (and I think her chip also looks different, can anyone confirm it for me?) and, well, she does fight better than the Triple 8s. The only problems are physical ones, with most Triple 8s being simply larger than her - but even then, she does hold her own against them. Look at Cromartie and Vick, despite being physically smaller, she was able to match them. In the case of Vick, she was actually able to get the upper hand and she ended up removing his brain. She knows where to strike for maximum damage, and when the Triple 8s aren't larger than her, well... they get turned to pretzels.

Robot River is so clevers!

The contorting Terminator was a Triple 8. If it was a different model, wouldn't Derek or Cameron comment on that? The only thing they say is that she's been modified so that her chip wouldn't be compromised. Besides, we already know that T-888s come in varying shapes and sizes. If the only difference with her is the size, with her components being no different from normal Triple 8s except for the size, then she's still a Triple 8.

It would be like the difference between an MP5 and an MP5K.

[NecronLord]

I'm pretty sure Cameron is not meant to be another T-888. Her HUD, in whatever version, is completely different, and she's never described as one.

As for the T-1000, I don't imagine she actually has any desire to stop Skynet developing in whatever way it p leases. If an AI project can become skynet, well, that's it. Of course, by creating an enviroment far different from a military defence lab, with no risk of anyone taking it into their head to shut Skynet down, they may indeed end up with a very different machine.

Of course, a non-hostile Skynet, given the sheer genius of other variants, in inventing such things as plasma weapons, hundred year fuel cells, various advanced alloys, cybernetics at a highly advanced level, and of course, a time machine, would be the best possible outcome.

[eyexist]

Cameron is an advanced model when compared to the other T-888s out there. Her HUD is different (and I think her chip also looks different, can anyone confirm it for me?)

Cameron's Chip:


Vick's Chip:

[Feil]

Meh. Terminator of the Week. 3.

[Thanas]

Cameron is an advanced model when compared to the other T-888s out there. Her HUD is different (and I think her chip also looks different, can anyone confirm it for me?) and, well, she does fight better than the Triple 8s. The only problems are physical ones, with most Triple 8s being simply larger than her - but even then, she does hold her own against them. Look at Cromartie and Vick, despite being physically smaller, she was able to match them. In the case of Vick, she was actually able to get the upper hand and she ended up removing his brain. She knows where to strike for maximum damage, and when the Triple 8s aren't larger than her, well... they get turned to pretzels.

Guys, c'mon. We know you can shrink chassis, but shrinking it to about half the size and still call it the same model is somewhat ludicrous.

[Crazedwraith]

This is what the third terminator of the week this season? Greenway, and the two trying to kill Bedel/the psychologist. That's 50% terminator of the week, I'm beginning to get worried.

Still this episode was pretty decent. I liked the little touches: Cameron and Weaver's speech patterns are similar. The fight scene between Cameron and Pretzelbot, was well done, will them stalking into the building in perfect unison then recognizing each other in the lift when they glance at each other. The fighting styles also seem more sophisticated than usual: they actually were punching/blocking and so forth. The usual form of metal on metal combat since T2 has been grab each other and smash into nearest wall.

So overall 3/5, nothing exceptional popped out at me and it seemed a little unfocused but still advances the overall plot satisfactorily.

[Shroom Man 777]

Guys, c'mon. We know you can shrink chassis, but shrinking it to about half the size and still call it the same model is somewhat ludicrous.

If the chip is the same, if the power plant is the same, and if the parts are no different - except for size - you can't really call it a different model. A variant, yes. But another model altogether? Nah.

My analogy with the MP5 and the MP5K fits. Or, maybe a better one would be the Uzi, the Mini-Uzi, and the micro-Uzi.

[Crazedwraith]

I also noted the return of Sarah's voice overs for the first time this season. Which I've always found to be a bit hit or miss. Like the one's regard to the atom bomb's creation in "The Turk" but most the others have seemed a bit tangential.

[Shroom Man 777]

I'm rather fond of Sarah's voice overs.

[Thanas]

Guys, c'mon. We know you can shrink chassis, but shrinking it to about half the size and still call it the same model is somewhat ludicrous.

If the chip is the same, if the power plant is the same, and if the parts are no different - except for size - you can't really call it a different model. A variant, yes. But another model altogether? Nah.

My analogy with the MP5 and the MP5K fits. Or, maybe a better one would be the Uzi, the Mini-Uzi, and the micro-Uzi.

[Thanas]

^Argh, damm it. Hit submit instead of preview.

Guys, c'mon. We know you can shrink chassis, but shrinking it to about half the size and still call it the same model is somewhat ludicrous.

If the chip is the same, if the power plant is the same, and if the parts are no different - except for size - you can't really call it a different model. A variant, yes. But another model altogether? Nah.

My analogy with the MP5 and the MP5K fits. Or, maybe a better one would be the Uzi, the Mini-Uzi, and the micro-Uzi.

The T-888 is a variant of the T-800 and the T-850. So I would feel very cautios in deciding this to be a T-888. What evidence is there for calling it a T-888 except that the majority of terminators sent back are T-888s? Which does not mean all Terminators are T-888s. See Weaver.

[Thanas]

Also note - neither the Uzi nor the mini-uzi have the same patent no.

[Drooling Iguana]

This is what the third terminator of the week this season? Greenway, and the two trying to kill Bedel/the psychologist. That's 50% terminator of the week, I'm beginning to get worried.

They've got a list of people targeted for termination. Of course they're going to be running into more terminators.

[Sarevok]

So Kendra Shaw is the Final Cylon who traveled through time and space to the 13th Colony for fulfilling yet unknown prophecies ?

Amazing episode. I am glad they did not go the cheesy route of the T-1000 creating a mini me by dividing its mass. What they did instead is far more chilling and emotional. Anyone got the feeling the T-1000 was developing genuine affection for the child ? It did seem saddened it was failing in the role of a mother. This storyline could go to interesting places. On a related note you have John and Camerons partnership. He obviously lies to himself if he still thinks of her as a machine to be commanded like a remote controlled car. Maybe we are seeing the start of machine human cooperation and a possible transhuman faction to oppose both skynet and any bigoted humans who wish to kill all sentient AI ?

[Crazedwraith]

This is what the third terminator of the week this season? Greenway, and the two trying to kill Bedel/the psychologist. That's 50% terminator of the week, I'm beginning to get worried.

They've got a list of people targeted for termination. Of course they're going to be running into more terminators.

They have a list of names. They don't know anything about them. Some of them could be people they're supposed to do in themselves. The guy from this episode's purpose is up in the air, at the moment it looks like he's going to be working to skynet's advantage: developing AI.

And what are the chances that the Terminator spawned to kill this guy at the exact same time the Connor's were looking into him? At least with Bedel they had the phone book killings to go off.

[Shroom Man 777]

The woman who played Pretzel is slotted to appear in episode 8 as well. I wonder why?

Maybe she is a new kind of Infiltrator! I mean, if you want to off targets in the past, would you just send one machine to do it systematically? Won't it be cooler to send multiple machines to perform coordinated killings? Imagine, a team of Terminators sent back simultaneously to go around ruining people's shit - perhaps they could even have wireless communications to coordinate with one another! Holy shit!

[Anarchist Bunny]

The woman who played Pretzel is slotted to appear in episode 8 as well. I wonder why?

Maybe she is a new kind of Infiltrator! I mean, if you want to off targets in the past, would you just send one machine to do it systematically? Won't it be cooler to send multiple machines to perform coordinated killings? Imagine, a team of Terminators sent back simultaneously to go around ruining people's shit - perhaps they could even have wireless communications to coordinate with one another! Holy shit!

They may gussy her up so its not as apparent its the same actress, but can still do the bendy stile fighting that the contortionist provides.

[Shroom Man 777]

I think it's ingenius, really! They should hire MORE contortionists! It'll be great!

Hrm, I just have a few (new) questions regarding Cameron:

- has she TOTALLY recovered from the damage she got from the car bombing? How was she able to fix her ruined leg actuators and stuff? Hrm... maybe it wasn't really that bad, perhaps shrapnel was just lodged between the servos and hydraulics? The Terminator in T1 did suffer similar impediments and was able to repair himself (I'm talking about when his hand got shotgunned... that scene where he opened up his arm, and then later on scooped his eye out).

- then again, what about the damage to her chip? What's up with that?

- Why is Robot River suicidal?

Maybe she really doesn't want to be doing what she's doing, and she's still looking for her "get out of jail free". Poor Robot Rivers!

[Thanas]

I think it's ingenius, really! They should hire MORE contortionists! It'll be great!

Hrm, I just have a few (new) questions regarding Cameron:

- has she TOTALLY recovered from the damage she got from the car bombing? How was she able to fix her ruined leg actuators and stuff? Hrm... maybe it wasn't really that bad, perhaps shrapnel was just lodged between the servos and hydraulics? The Terminator in T1 did suffer similar impediments and was able to repair himself (I'm talking about when his hand got shotgunned... that scene where he opened up his arm, and then later on scooped his eye out).

Apparently yes. Given that Terminators survived having a gasoline truck blown up under them with no damage whatsoever in T-1, I don't think it is out of the question that it was mostly shrapnel.

- then again, what about the damage to her chip? What's up with that?

Unknown. I have filed this under "John and the rest of the crew are idiots".

- Why is Robot River suicidal?

Eh?

[Shroom Man 777]

Someone in the thread mentioned that there was foreshadowing (4shadowing) of potential Robot River suicidal tendencies with her reading that pamphlet on suicide while looking at Pretzel's broken chip. Come on, Robot River is so obviously sad - she looks like she needs a hugs! ^_____^

(It's a testament to Summer Glau's acting that she can play someone so dysfunctional that she both elicits feelings of sympathy and fear or intimidation. Same goes with Lena, Spartan Queen Sarah!)


Also, Pretzel is really cute! Even with battle damage!