T:SCC 2x06: "The Tower Is Tall But The Fall Is Short"

[Thanas]

Someone in the thread mentioned that there was foreshadowing (4shadowing) of potential Robot River suicidal tendencies with her reading that pamphlet on suicide while looking at Pretzel's broken chip. Come on, Robot River is so obviously sad - she looks like she needs a hugs!

Oh, c'mon. She was thinking John was suicidal and wanted to learn more about suicide. That's why she took a look at the pamphlet. And I don't think she looks sad. If anything, she looked pretty satisfied as having owned the pretzelator.

[Shroom Man 777]

I mean, generally... ever since she screwed up in Samson and Delilah, and again in Allison from Palmdale, you don't see her interacting that much with the others. At least, not like in season 1.

[NecronLord]

I'm ususally the last person to say this. But don't anthropomorphise. Terminators literally cannot commit suicide, even though they can decide it's for the best. It's hardly surprising that the phonomenon should intrigue one. Doesn't mean she wishes to.

[Shroom Man 777]

She might not be able to do so, but who's to say that she doesn't want to? In the season's first episode, River's already told Sarah that if ever she screws up again, John must not be allowed to attempt to fix her. And in Allison from Palmdale, actually "becoming" a human being, even if only temporarily, and then rediscovering that one is actually not human might have screwed up with her a lot. Then again, she could've just labeled it as an error or a glitch and thought nothing of it...

Reminds me of Automatic for the People, which happened right after River's first malfunction in Samson and Delilah.

Sarah: Am I still going to get sick?

River: I don't know.

Sarah: Is today how it happens?

River: I don't know.

Sarah: What am I supposed to do, just wait? Like a time bomb, am I going to just go off some day?

River: I don't know. Am I?

She's definitely one unstable robot. Our psychologist character might end up with two non-human patients in need of counseling.

Anyway, Robot River is meant to be anthropomorphized! She's a Taminator!

Hrm... you know, with Derek Reese's hobo-look and unshaven chin, he looks like Jayne Cobb. Maybe Robot River will malfunction and slice him with a kitchen knife and comment that he looks better in red.


Goddamn it, I'm such a fangirl. I can't believe it. I mean, I was never this drawn to Summer Glau's performance as River, not in Firefly or in Serenity. Sure, she was good then, but now... damn. Is Cameron that well-played? Or is part of it because I'm also such a fangirl over nuclear-powered chrome-steel endoskeletal killing machines? Damn!

[NecronLord]

She might not be able to do so, but who's to say that she doesn't want to?

What's to say she does? Simple curiosity, rather than actual depression, will suffice.

In the season's first episode, River's already told Sarah that if ever she screws up again, John must not be allowed to attempt to fix her.

That's not suicidal tendancies, that's common sense. Reactivating her was very, very, dangerous, and would potentially harm her mission.

And in Allison from Palmdale, actually "becoming" a human being, even if only temporarily, and then rediscovering that one is actually not human might have screwed up with her a lot. Then again, she could've just labeled it as an error or a glitch and thought nothing of it...

I think you're putting too much humanity into her. It's a machine. While it's one that does have feelings, that doesn't mean they directly translate to our feelings. Her issues in Allison are far more likely to be a 'deep cover mode' boolean being accidentally activated, than something like a human ailment, for example.

Reminds me of Automatic for the People, which happened right after River's first malfunction in Samson and Delilah.

Also, gah, you ought to stop calling her River. Her name is Cameron!

[NecronLord]

Here's a thought for how the pretzelator may re-appear... Was it actually clear if it was thermited? Otherwise, it could conceivably be repaired and used as a particularly effective disguise for Cameron...

[Crazedwraith]

Here's a thought for how the pretzelator may re-appear... Was it actually clear if it was thermited? Otherwise, it could conceivably be repaired and used as a particularly effective disguise for Cameron...

That would be interesting but wouldn't they be rather worried about fiddling with her chip after the series opener?

[Shroom Man 777]

Also, gah, you ought to stop calling her River. Her name is Cameron!

But it's so kawaii, and alliterative! Robot River!

Hmm... I think it would not be wise to stick Cameron's (:P) chip into a unit that was able to destroy its own chip upon tampering. Part of the anti-reprogramming measures might include disabling the Triple 8 from receiving new chips. Also, from what we saw, the chip was destroyed from its "plug" up to its middle point... so maybe the "connection port" (or whatever you call that USB-like thing for the chips to connect to) also had damage, or was the one that did the damage somehow.

Why would Cameron need a disguise, anyway? Pretzels!

[eyexist]

I'm ususally the last person to say this. But don't anthropomorphise. Terminators literally cannot commit suicide, even though they can decide it's for the best. It's hardly surprising that the phonomenon should intrigue one. Doesn't mean she wishes to.

I guess that why Cameron was so intrigued by the pretzelator's chip, since termies can't self terminate. Cam was reading up on suicides because she was concerned for John safety. Remember it was her that insisted he go back to the Psychologist while Sarah remained in denial.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hmmm... true. It's sweet that Cameron is so concerned with John, not just for his physical well-being, but also his mental and emotional safety as well. Sure, it's part of her programming, but still, she knows the future John very well (just how well? we don't know!) and she wants to shape him into the man he's got to be. We've even seen her (re-)overriding her own Skynet programming for his sake. Man, she does love him. I guess that wasn't one of her lies.


And Sarah is a shitty mom.

[Thanas]

Here's a thought for how the pretzelator may re-appear... Was it actually clear if it was thermited? Otherwise, it could conceivably be repaired and used as a particularly effective disguise for Cameron...

That would be interesting but wouldn't they be rather worried about fiddling with her chip after the series opener?

The chip was also totally different from Cameron's chip. Cameron's chip is a long, stiletto-like chip. The pretzelator's chip was blocky and short in comparison. There is no reason to assume Cameron's chip will fit into the slot of the other maching.

And the first one who makes a pun out of that gets Arnie sent after them with orders to test just how compatible Terminators and humans are.

[Crazedwraith]

I though the chip was short and block because it had just burnt itself out in self destruct. Rather than being a different make.

[Thanas]

It didn't burn out, it short-circuited iirc. AFAIK that does not cause a chip to shrink and notice that there were no break lines. It seemed rather smooth.

[NecronLord]

Also, gah, you ought to stop calling her River. Her name is Cameron!

But it's so kawaii, and alliterative! Robot River!

Hmm... I think it would not be wise to stick Cameron's (:P) chip into a unit that was able to destroy its own chip upon tampering. Part of the anti-reprogramming measures might include disabling the Triple 8 from receiving new chips

That's conceivable I suppose. Also, I swear, if you keep calling that model a triple eight, I'll find a way to reach through the screen and slap you. Was it six feet tall?

. Also, from what we saw, the chip was destroyed from its "plug" up to its middle point... so maybe the "connection port" (or whatever you call that USB-like thing for the chips to connect to) also had damage, or was the one that did the damage somehow.

Why would Cameron need a disguise, anyway? Pretzels!

Once Weaver clocks her for what she is, and let's presume it'll happen, it'd be, err, suicidal to go near her again. A disguise may come in useful at that point.

[NecronLord]

The chip was also totally different from Cameron's chip. Cameron's chip is a long, stiletto-like chip. The pretzelator's chip was blocky and short in comparison. There is no reason to assume Cameron's chip will fit into the slot of the other maching.

Assuming their shock damping assemblies are the same size, then a 888 chip and Cameron's, at least, probably fit the same socket. I can't think of any reason for Skynet to change the socket unless the technology changed. There would be much better ways of preventing unauthorised chips being used, and changing the socket arrangement would just prevent backward compatibility, preventing it using its new chips in damaged older terminators.

I suppose the T-3 novel does give it such a profligate attidue towards its older terminators, but it's the only source that does.

[Crazedwraith]

Did John put the bug back after he left? Or have the Connor totally missed the whole Weaver connection?

[Feil]

Did John put the bug back after he left? Or have the Connor totally missed the whole Weaver connection?

I don't think he did. There is a deliberate shot past the light where the bug was while the Termimommy is with the shrink, and I didn't see the bug.

[Thanas]

The chip was also totally different from Cameron's chip. Cameron's chip is a long, stiletto-like chip. The pretzelator's chip was blocky and short in comparison. There is no reason to assume Cameron's chip will fit into the slot of the other maching.

Assuming their shock damping assemblies are the same size, then a 888 chip and Cameron's, at least, probably fit the same socket. I can't think of any reason for Skynet to change the socket unless the technology changed. There would be much better ways of preventing unauthorised chips being used, and changing the socket arrangement would just prevent backward compatibility, preventing it using its new chips in damaged older terminators.

On page 2 of this thread, eyexist showed some pictures of the different chips. Not only is Camerons chip about double the length of a T-888 chip, it is also only half as wide. Now, unless the sockets are somewhat flexible (which is unlikely and never do we see that in a movie), there is no way you could fit them into the respective sockets. Just look at the size.

The difference is probably due to the difference in the overall size of the robots.

Did John put the bug back after he left? Or have the Connor totally missed the whole Weaver connection?

He did not.

[NecronLord]

On page 2 of this thread, eyexist showed some pictures of the different chips. Not only is Camerons chip about double the length of a T-888 chip, it is also only half as wide. Now, unless the sockets are somewhat flexible (which is unlikely and never do we see that in a movie), there is no way you could fit them into the respective sockets. Just look at the size.

The difference is probably due to the difference in the overall size of the robots.

You're making several unjustified assumptions of scaling without reference there. While they have different lengths relative to their widths (and even that's questionable; both chips appear to be about three times as long as their connector pins are wide, more than that is difficult to say, as they're being held at different angles) there is no objective means of scaling them in those pictures. In T2 there is explicitly said to be a shock dampening assembly in the head of terminators holding those chips, which could simply be adjusted to allow different size chips to fit in the same space, should it be necessary.

[eyexist]

Vick's chip is shorter and wider than Cam's. There's a better screenshot of Cam holding the chip with the same pliers John used when she pulls it out. Unless someone beats me to it I can post it from home after work.

[Enigma]

I haven't seen this show yet and I am one of those that can't get into a series without seeing it from the beginning. But I do have some question about Cameron. How is she compared to the Terminators in the three movies?

[Faqa]

I haven't seen this show yet and I am one of those that can't get into a series without seeing it from the beginning. But I do have some question about Cameron. How is she compared to the Terminators in the three movies?

A - There were only two movies, filthy heathen.

B - Cameron is essentially a lighter, more advanced version of Arnold's model. She has several capabilities he did not(chief among them a greater ability to blend in with humans and mimic their behavior).

Although it's not really worth getting into the show just for her, IMO. She's just one of the characters on the show, and Summer Glau is good, but not great. But the writing is smart, very tight in terms of continuity, and the acting team is fairly good. THOSE are qualifications, if you like.

As for the episode, well, very little happened, but I liked it as an in-depth look at John and what he's been going through this season.

Although the REAL draw was Weaver and her interaction with her daughter and the psychologist. First of all, the whole setup is incredibly creepy. Secondly, it's hilarious.

But most of all, it's a pretty nice look at the psychology of the 'other' side. You clearly see the flaws in terminator understanding of human behavior - I especially liked the shoe-tying scene. To her, the doctor was pointing out a flaw - something to be fixed. She didn't(still doesn't, really) understand the concept of empathy. None of them did, except perhaps Uncle Bob at the very end of T2. And maybe Cameron, we still don't know. She learned, like Vick, perhaps, to mimic loving behavior, but she still doesn't know what it means. And unlike Vick, she's actually interested. Puzzled. A fascinating interaction.

Sidenote: Am I the only one who managed to get out an "awwwwwww" when the kid sat on Weaver's lap in the end?

As for the action scene? FUCK YEAH. That is all. Melee combat at it's finest. Although sending such a small Terminator(smaller than Summer Glau, who is reportedly TINY) is a bit puzzling. Why not a big, hulking T-888? What makes this doctor so special that he can't be killed by brute force?

This ep gets a five. I actually like it BETTER than "Allison From Palmdale".

I love this show. Will it marry me?

[Enigma]

I haven't seen this show yet and I am one of those that can't get into a series without seeing it from the beginning. But I do have some question about Cameron. How is she compared to the Terminators in the three movies?

A - There were only two movies, filthy heathen.

B - Cameron is essentially a lighter, more advanced version of Arnold's model. She has several capabilities he did not(chief among them a greater ability to blend in with humans and mimic their behavior).

How does she stack up against a T-1000 or a T-X?

[Peptuck]

I haven't seen this show yet and I am one of those that can't get into a series without seeing it from the beginning. But I do have some question about Cameron. How is she compared to the Terminators in the three movies?

A - There were only two movies, filthy heathen.

B - Cameron is essentially a lighter, more advanced version of Arnold's model. She has several capabilities he did not(chief among them a greater ability to blend in with humans and mimic their behavior).

How does she stack up against a T-1000 or a T-X?

Don't know, haven't seen her fight either yet.

[Anguirus]

^ I don't see any reason why she would be able to hold her own against either one better than either version of Arnold. She is lighter than the T-800 so unless she's much more mechanically advanced, she is not as strong or massive. And while she is more flexible, she doesn't seem especially so. She still has a very brute-force fighting style. If she tangles with Weaver, she'll have to out-think her somehow.

The T-X (which may not even exist in this timeline) could probably one-shot her, since she caused severe damage to even the "uparmored" Arnold-Terminator.