Are we in a new political cycle?

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
ArcturusMengsk
Padawan Learner
Posts: 416
Joined: 2007-07-31 04:59pm
Location: Illinois

Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by ArcturusMengsk »

I'd like to preface this message with a link to a thread on Democratic Underground, which serves as good an introduction to this idea as any other:
Image

The Prophet—The prophet comes to the scene with a completely new ideological approach to a stagnating problem. People attach themselves to the prophet affectively, and his (or her) key strength is communication. The prophet is able to package the ideological and structural changes such that ordinary people can not only understand it (in its own ideological space), but hook into some part of it, become affectively invested in it. The prophet will run over the opposition effectively on issues that would have been taboo even a few years before, largely because people have been primed communicatively for a general social transformation. The prophet will usually become an iconic figure within the ideological boundaries, and within the culture at large. The examples in the recent 30 year cycles are, of course, FDR and Reagan.

The Bureaucrat—The bureaucrat will usually be attached to the Prophet as a calmer and less radical figure, though he will share the ideological worldview of the prophet for the most part. He will be perceived as a less exalted continuation of the prophet, but it is precisely the lack of the affective investment that will sink the bureaucrat in the end. The bureaucrat will be perceived not as a transformational figure, but as a capable manager of a change that’s already taken place. But because he can’t inspire the sort of attachments that the prophet could, he will usually be doomed to a short reign, as the affective energy swings in the other direction. The examples in the recent 30 year cycles are Truman and Bush Senior.

The Interregnum—Because the affective attachments of the prophet waned during the reign of the bureaucrat, it really has nowhere else to go. It swirls around attaching itself to various secondary issues, though the bureaucrat may try to hook it into a war posture. As the reign of the bureaucrat comes to an end, then, you will often see deeply invested social conflicts (McCarthyism, the Culture Wars and L.A. Riots, etc.), as the affective energies once attached to the ideology gets set loose across the social landscape. This will lead to what i call the interregnum: the emergence of the other ideology within the 30 year cycle. In the case of the Roosevelt cycle, we see the emergence of Eisenhower. In the middle of the Reagan cycle, we see the emergence of Clinton. In both cases, the interregnum will be run by a relatively mild version of the second ideology, since the affective energies attached to the prophet have not completely disappeared. Because the interregnum will be relatively mild in terms of social transformation, it will almost always end in a painfully close election, since the distinction between the ideologies will seem less severe, and the middle group of undecideds will be unable to hook into one program or the other: Kennedy/Nixon; Bush/Gore.

The Disaster—As the ruling ideology endured the interregnum, it intensified its polarity as a matter of distinguishing itself from the mildness of the second ideology. When it gets into power after the interregnum, it throws this radicalization wholeheartedly at whatever social problems it perceives. For this reason, the Disaster is an amped up, highly volatile affective era, as we move from relative mildness in the distinction between ideologies to hard core distinction in the development of policy. In the first 30 year cycle, you thus get the rapid changes in civil rights laws and the war on poverty, while in the Bush 2 era you get the most extreme tilting toward neo-liberal economics, far beyond what Reagan could have dreamed of accomplishing. This radicality, moreover, will lead to the kind of social instability that makes war more probable, and pushes the ideology above any connection to reality. It thus leads to disaster for the ideology: the 60’s as the moment when the 30 year Democratic cycle became so radical that it could not sustain itself; the 00’s as the moment when Reaganism collapsed under the pressure of ideological purity.

So, if you’re smart, you should be asking the following: What about Nixon? In my view, Nixon/Ford/Carter were transition figures, placeholders as the electorate waited for a new cycle. The affective attachments of the period are confused, swaying from deep hatred and unmitigated love, to depression, and general ennui. They were, in short, unordered attachments. It’s not a mistake, I think, that the late 1960’s and early 1970’s were thus a period of structural readjustment in the economy and massive technological transformation of the society. The affective attachments, set loose from the mainstream ideologies, sunk themselves into all forms of economic and cultural production, actually collapsing the distinction between economy and culture in the process.

Now, you might be asking: are we in for another period of transition? Certainly, the economic factors would point to a situation nearly parallel to that of 1968: the dominant ideology has sunk the economy into a ideological black hole, perhaps requiring structural readjustment in the same way as the early 1970’s was the economic push of neo-liberalism that was only later cashed out as Reaganism.
To simplify somewhat, this poster holds that political periods, at least in the modern era, are structured similarly: they are heralded in by a popular figure championing a new political paradigm (Roosevelt, Reagan), who are succeeded by a less popular and more 'mechanistic' figure with just enough effectiveness to continue to the old policies, but who is much more vulnerable to defeat (Truman, H.W. Bush); these 'bureaucrats' in turn find themselves displaced by moderate members of the opposition ideology (Eisenhower, Clinton), who themselves lead to a radicalization of the existing paradigm and its gradual dissolution (Johnson, W. Bush). And while there are certain elements in the two cycles of the twentieth century that differ from one another - Kennedy's role in the New Deal era has no corollary in our present Reaganist system - the similarities are there, I feel, and bear consideration.

The question in notions such as these, of course, is the placement of the Nixon-Ford-Carter years: it seems to upset the idea that political 'epochs' segue smoothly into each other. I am personally of the opinion that Nixon ought to have held the position of esteem among Republicans and conservatives generally that Reagan holds today; and while it's true that his economic policies were more liberal generally than Reagan's (and his support of liberal institutions like OSHA and the EPA certainly inveighs against his economic conservatism), it is certainly true that his rhetoric, his appeal to the 'Silent Majority', was the beginning of the end of the New Deal coalition. It seems to me that, had the Nixon Administration not ended in disgrace, that we'd have entered the conservative ('Reagan') cycle much sooner, with complete Republican dominance of Washington for the seventies, eighties, and most of the nineties, and we'd have entered a liberal re-alignment that much sooner.

If this is a valid way of looking at modern political history, then might it be possible to deduce a vague idea as to what the future has in store? If so, the question is, presuming - as now looks likely - that Obama is elected, what role will he play in the shifting of political sympathies? Will he be akin to Nixon, able to tap into a newly-emerging political alignment without being the direct benefactor of it, and actually delays its eventual victory over the opposing ideology? Or will he be more of a Reagan-figure, who directly leads to a resurgence of the newly dominant ideology?

There are parallels with both eras. Like Reagan, Obama's star seems to be ascending at the expense of a hugely unpopular incumbent President; but like Nixon he is running against a non-incumbent member of the dominant political party, who has largely subsumed the role of the President within the party (Johnson-Humphrey; Bush-McCain). Like Reagan, he has enormous charisma and has the ability to galvanize the masses, but again like Nixon, his proposed policies seem more pragmatic and remain located in the opposing (Reaganist) paradigm; just as Nixon was largely a moderate, Obama is more of a centrist than a traditional New Deal liberal, although like Nixon his rhetoric is relatively partisan.

Or perhaps this 'dialectical' mode of political history is bunk, and American politics really is more of a game of personalities than any back-and-forth swing of ideological sympathies. I'd be greatly interested in hearing the thoughts of the board on this matter.
Diocletian had the right idea.
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by Darth Wong »

This article attempts to identify a pattern, but that's it. It does not identify any real mechanism other than two ill-defined opposing forces pushing and pulling at each other, and the fact that you can try to shoehorn events of the last half-century into this pattern does not necessarily mean you have figured out a model which you can rely on to have predictive capabilities in the future. Especially since the actual definitions and locations of those opposing forces keeps changing, so it becomes even easier to force events to fit into this model.

Also, if this model is reliable, one should expect to be able to apply it in every democratic country. Has any attempt been made to do this in any country other than the US?
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
ArcturusMengsk
Padawan Learner
Posts: 416
Joined: 2007-07-31 04:59pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by ArcturusMengsk »

Darth Wong wrote:It does not identify any real mechanism other than two ill-defined opposing forces pushing and pulling at each other, and the fact that you can try to shoehorn events of the last half-century into this pattern does not necessarily mean you have figured out a model which you can rely on to have predictive capabilities in the future. Especially since the actual definitions and locations of those opposing forces keeps changing, so it becomes even easier to force events to fit into this model.
I agree with you, it's a bit of 'fuzzy logic', and it doesn't work as a hard scientific theory because it lacks any predictive power. However, I think it hinges on an assumption that every political movement, once they attain power, enter into a phase of radicalization in which it attempts to realize its ideological bases even at the expense of hard reality: under Bush II the top tax bracket was cut down to 35% (even under Reagan it was 50%); we have seen the results of this ideologically-motivated economic theory as the credit crunch. In the sixties, the New Deal coalition largely fractured on the wedge issue of race; Johnson's signing on the 1964 Civil Rights Bill largely ended the South's identification with the Democratic Party and with liberalism generally.

So while I don't think this is a hard-and-fast rule of thumb by any means - and how could it be? even 'political science' is not, strictly speaking, scientific - I do think that this idea might be onto something. Just what that is I haven't the slightest; and I leave it up to those more well-informed than I am to make of it what they want.
Also, if this model is reliable, one should expect to be able to apply it in every democratic country. Has any attempt been made to do this in any country other than the US?
I don't know, and I don't know if it would work, for the simple reason that most other democratic nations lack the intense polarization that is the essence of American politics. I believe, though I admittedly have no real evidence for it, that any two-party monopolistic party system should fall into relatively predictable patterns as one party loses its dominance over certain sectors of the electorate. Surely someone more well-versed than I am in international politics could see if it applies to any other nation.
Diocletian had the right idea.
Ekiqa
Jedi Knight
Posts: 527
Joined: 2004-09-20 01:07pm
Location: Toronto/Halifax

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by Ekiqa »

Why do they call Bush a neo-Liberal? Is he not a neo-Conservative?
User avatar
ArcturusMengsk
Padawan Learner
Posts: 416
Joined: 2007-07-31 04:59pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by ArcturusMengsk »

Ekiqa wrote:Why do they call Bush a neo-Liberal?
Neo-liberalism is actually an economic theory pioneered by Milton Friedman that champions state deregulation of corporate activities and a 'trickle-down' model of wealth acquisition; its name is taken from the old (revolutionary) notion of 'liberalism' as first expressed by Adam Smith, that the free market is the surest and best model of economic activity within a society. In short, neo-liberalism is the modern conservative theory of economics.
Diocletian had the right idea.
User avatar
Bounty
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10767
Joined: 2005-01-20 08:33am
Location: Belgium

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by Bounty »

Ekiqa wrote:Why do they call Bush a neo-Liberal? Is he not a neo-Conservative?
Most of the rest of the world uses "liberal" to describe free-marketeers, not progressives.
User avatar
Ender
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11323
Joined: 2002-07-30 11:12pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by Ender »

I think it is an attempt to find a pattern where there isn't one. As was pointed out, Nixon, Ford, Carter doesn't fit in this at all, and if the pattern holds it should also extrapolate further backwards in time. It doesn't. Nor does it appear to apply across borders, which as a sociological model it should. It is an interesting thought, but ultimately I don't think it holds any water.
بيرني كان سيفوز
*
Nuclear Navy Warwolf
*
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
*
ipsa scientia potestas est
User avatar
Guardsman Bass
Cowardly Codfish
Posts: 9281
Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by Guardsman Bass »

It doesn't even really seem to fit in the first part of the twentieth century, to boot. Teddy Roosevelt was a strong progressive and change agent (he was certainly a progressive in many ways, and was a strong advocate for some of their causes), but a prophet? Taft could have been his bureaucratic implementation type, since he largely extended Roosvelt's polices, but Wilson was a strong force for change (both positive and negative), and the men that followed him (Harding, Coolidge, Hoover) were less than remarkable.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
-Jean-Luc Picard


"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood
User avatar
Ariphaos
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1739
Joined: 2005-10-21 02:48am
Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA
Contact:

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by Ariphaos »

The first thing I tried to do was attempt to think of a similar period previous to this.

I think the author of this theory is a prime example of finding patterns where you want to find them.
Give fire to a man, and he will be warm for a day.
Set him on fire, and he will be warm for life.
User avatar
CmdrWilkens
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9093
Joined: 2002-07-06 01:24am
Location: Land of the Crabcake
Contact:

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by CmdrWilkens »

Xeriar wrote:The first thing I tried to do was attempt to think of a similar period previous to this.

I think the author of this theory is a prime example of finding patterns where you want to find them.
Moreover the pattern breaks on Kennedy to begin with. He actually shifted a whole bunch of new agenda's and could hardly be considered "the disaster." Now yes the Vietnam War was a disaster but the economic policies at home were generally sound, we saw the continued rise of American manufacturing evidenced at the end of the Roosevelt/Truman administrations and opened whole new fields of opportunity in communications, flight, and electronics especially following the NASA missions. If anything Kennedy was more of a transformational FIGURE than Roosevelt was. FDR may have enacted transformative policies but he came from the same mold as virtually every politician of his era and came up through the same cauldron of machines and cronyism.
Image
SDNet World Nation: Wilkonia
Armourer of the WARWOLVES
ASVS Vet's Association (Class of 2000)
Former C.S. Strowbridge Gold Ego Award Winner
MEMBER of the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist LEAGUE

"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. "
-Kingdom of Heaven
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Darth Wong wrote: Also, if this model is reliable, one should expect to be able to apply it in every democratic country. Has any attempt been made to do this in any country other than the US?
It'd be difficult since the U.S. odd electoral system basically forces it into a situation of opposing dualistic political factions. While there may be dominant partners in other democracies, Canada and other states are much more multipolar.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
thejester
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1811
Joined: 2005-06-10 07:16pm
Location: Richard Nixon's Secret Tapes Club Band

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by thejester »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: Also, if this model is reliable, one should expect to be able to apply it in every democratic country. Has any attempt been made to do this in any country other than the US?
It'd be difficult since the U.S. odd electoral system basically forces it into a situation of opposing dualistic political factions. While there may be dominant partners in other democracies, Canada and other states are much more multipolar.
It also assumes leadership change, which may not happen in parliamentary systems with no term limits.
Image
I love the smell of September in the morning. Once we got off at Richmond, walked up to the 'G, and there was no game on. Not one footballer in sight. But that cut grass smell, spring rain...it smelt like victory.

Dynamic. When [Kuznetsov] decided he was going to make a difference, he did it...Like Ovechkin...then you find out - he's with Washington too? You're kidding.
- Ron Wilson
User avatar
TC Pilot
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1648
Joined: 2007-04-28 01:46am

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by TC Pilot »

The short answer is no, we're not in a new "cycle". There's not going to be any substantial realignment. The same general areas vote for the same general party and have since the collapse of the New Deal coalition and the realignment resulting from the 60s. A bad economy and a bad president are only giving it the appearance of a massive change.

This proposed cycle certainly doesn't apply to the pre-New Deal era when the Republicans were a clear majority party (Wilson only won in 1912 because of the Roosevelt/Taft struggle), and only works even for the given examples in the loosest sense. Are 20 years of Roosevelt/Truman, Great Depression/New Deal/World War II really equivalent to Reagen/Bush? Are the massive changes to the electorate and politics of the 60s really comparable to the last eight years? Vaguely, maybe. Hardly in any meaningful way.

Basically, if the process repeats itself in thirty years, you might have something. Otherwise, it's just making up an arbitrary pattern.
"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."
User avatar
CmdrWilkens
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9093
Joined: 2002-07-06 01:24am
Location: Land of the Crabcake
Contact:

Re: Are we in a new political cycle?

Post by CmdrWilkens »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: Also, if this model is reliable, one should expect to be able to apply it in every democratic country. Has any attempt been made to do this in any country other than the US?
It'd be difficult since the U.S. odd electoral system basically forces it into a situation of opposing dualistic political factions. While there may be dominant partners in other democracies, Canada and other states are much more multipolar.
I would point out one small qualifier which is that the MODERN US political system sets up the R/D divide of the country but we've had influential and nationally relevant third parties before. The demise fo the Whigs, the rise of the Know Nothings, the rise of the Republican Party, the Progressive party (and the TDR spoiler which led to Woodrow Wilson). yes the current system is designed to enforce the two party setup but there have been notable exceptions until after TDR's failed bid.
Image
SDNet World Nation: Wilkonia
Armourer of the WARWOLVES
ASVS Vet's Association (Class of 2000)
Former C.S. Strowbridge Gold Ego Award Winner
MEMBER of the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist LEAGUE

"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. "
-Kingdom of Heaven
Post Reply