Doctor Who Season 2 Episode 13 Rewatch: "Doomsday"

[Thanas]

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the last episode of the Dr.Who rewatch project. After this there is nothing but the specials to watch and review.

So please join me in the last episode from Season 2, "Doomsday". In many ways this was the doomsday for RTD's run of the series. Starting from this episodes, the general quality of the later seasons started to slide. Was it because they ran out of ideas? Was it because Billie Piper left too big a shoe to fill? Or was it simply because they got lazy after this?

Who knows. What I do know however is that this episode is one of my favorites. So, fellow fans, let's watch as the Doctor, Rose, Jackie and Mickie battle enemies for the last time (no, JE does not count).

As always, please post your ratings in your review thread. As an aside, the previous episode "Army of Ghosts" received a rating of 4.44, making it one of the most highest rated episode ever. As usual, people who forgot to post their rating in their review post, were ignored.

[LadyTevar]

This show earns the 5 of 5 for one reason, and one reason only:

Dalek-Cyberman Smack-talk!
Ending with Rose's best line in the entire season: "Four million Cyberman, no problem. One Doctor... now you're scared."

[Thanas]

What can I say - a five from me as well. More later when I order my thoughts after rewatching it.

[Patrick Degan]

Five of five. Not only for the Battle of Canary Wharf but also for the tragic separation of Rose and the Doctor. The logical place for their saga to have ended. The Doctor should have been left traveling on his own through the next season sorting out what he was going to do with himself now that he had that huge Rose-shaped hole in his life in addition to saving the universe. Sadly, that was not what we got.

And even as it was, the next season with Martha Jones didn't have to go as it did, with the Doctor essentially treating her like shit, albeit unknowingly, by constantly throwing Rose in her face. It didn't have to be her suddenly falling in love with him, there could have been at least some time passage before that if it had to be introduced at all. And what we get with John Simm at the end of the season really started the disaster that led us to "The Stolen Planet/Journey's End".

I go with the laziness theory for seasons 3 & 4 —combined with RTD just having no self-control over imposing his own fanboyishness onto a professional production.

[Stark]

Pete, Gay Jake AND Mickey in one episode? Instant 5. You don't even need fantastically hilarious lines like 'the Sybahmen fund a whey to travelll betwen wurlds... and so did whe!!!' to get a 5, but it helps.

Somewhere along the line they forgot that for drama to work, you have to care about characters, and for silly alien fights to have meaning, you have to have drama. This works because it's Rose's Super Family in the middle of Disastertown, not because of the fanservice nature of the conflict itself. Later, when it was just flying aliens and massive jeopardy, it was boring and meaningless because there was no reason to give a shit or for those people to even be there. They stole the planet and I yawned.

My favourite shot in the episode is the second-last one. The Doctor is a thousand years old; his relationship with Rose is a few weeks for us. A single walk round the console, focusing on his work, and he's over it and composed, back to the life, still a prisoner of himself.

[Hillary]

Voted 4.

Not much to say here. I thought it wasn't quite as good as the previous episode. I particularly hated the resolution - a force powerful enough to suck Daleks and Cybermen from around the world into the void wasn't strong enough to prise the Doctor and Rose's fingers from the weights they were hanging on to.

I guess this is a common theme running through RTD's tenure. Set up such a deadly and ultimate threat that there is no reasonable way out of it.

You can't fault the Dalek/Cybermen exchanges and the Cult of Skaro was a great idea (wasted in the Manhatten abortion). Lots of nice interaction between the cast too. Pete and Jackie's coming together was handled wonderfully and Mickey played the boyfriend who knows he's second choice perfectly.

As everyone knows, it's all downhill from here with the odd exception.

[Stark]

Not much to say here. I thought it wasn't quite as good as the previous episode. I particularly hated the resolution - a force powerful enough to suck Daleks and Cybermen from around the world into the void wasn't strong enough to prise the Doctor and Rose's fingers from the weights they were hanging on to.

There's silly technobabble about them having more goop on them or something (how the works for the Daleks which were both inside a voidship AND inside the Ark is beyond me) since they've got a few seconds exposure and the cybies have like, years or weeks or something exposure. Doesn't explain how it sucked the air in too, but oh well.

How can you hate the 'we scrunched up a piece of paper and filmed it' portal shot? That was hilarious!

[Ford Prefect]

Stark put it well in the past: Pete's World is bosso. I was totally down with this episode, so I'm giving it a five. As had been mentioned, because of emotional connection with the cast, the fact that Cybermen and Daleks are actually fighting is awesome, as opposed to fanservice silliness (it still is, but it's also awesome). Can you believe that this episode actually gave me hope that they were going to do something interesting with the Daleks? I fondly remember that. Pity it didn't turn out well.

[Stark]

Yeah, it was all 'hey Daleks reduced to a few guys with individuality, this seems like first step in the necessary de-powering' and we got 'Dalek Poomba gave his ass for this plan'.

[Ford Prefect]

I dont' want to think about it. Every time I do I just want to shout about dropping balls and crashing and burning and whatnot. Shit, actual Dalek characters! I don't like the Manhattan two parter, but I loved Dalek Caan chatting to that New Yorker dude about 'home' - it just made the pay-off even worse, because I was given a taste of Dalek characterisation and someone tossed coffee into my face.

Doomsday, quite honestly, is the last time I enjoyed Doctor Who.

[Hillary]

Yeah, it was all 'hey Daleks reduced to a few guys with individuality, this seems like first step in the necessary de-powering' and we got 'Dalek Poomba gave his ass for this plan'.

The biggest missed opportunity for the series. How awesome could it have been with a proper writer.

RTD baked us a fantastic cake and pissed on it before we could take a bite.

Bastard.

How can you hate the 'we scrunched up a piece of paper and filmed it' portal shot? That was hilarious!

[Ryushikaze]

5. Straight up. Every thing Journey's end did wrong, this did right. Every good thing in the Manhattan 2 parter owes itself to the seeds planted in this episode (sad that they were so ill used later on).
Like everyone said, the episode works because we give a damn. Yeah, the Dalek/ Cyber smack talk, and the Rose/ Dalek smack talk was all kinds of kick-ass, but that was because we gave half a crap about the people involved, and the threat presented was somehow relatable, unlike season 3/29 where the threat was both absurd and had no immediacy (honestly, take out the Toclafane, etc. etc. and just have the Doctor and Master duke it out for smaller scale reasons, and it would have worked a lot better), and Journey's end was just... ludicrous in its scope. Especially with the utter lack of threat the daleks presented.

I still say there's one way for the daleks in that episode to make sense, and that is that it was all a grand, elaborate, rube goldbergian plot with the primary goal to show the Doctor that he could be controlled like a puppet on strings, and that Sek was the ma- thing holding the strings.

Back to the episode, even Torchwood Chick became someone you could care about, and was well used, fighting to her last. Compare that to Journey's end where Sarah Jane basically just existed to get mad at Davros and fail with the rest of the gang. Doomsday made good and empathic use of people who didn't exist before the episode. Journey's end failed to make empathetic use of people we have been watching and empathizing with for years.

[Thanas]

Pete, Gay Jake AND Mickey in one episode? Instant 5. You don't even need fantastically hilarious lines like 'the Sybahmen fund a whey to travelll betwen wurlds... and so did whe!!!' to get a 5, but it helps.

Somewhere along the line they forgot that for drama to work, you have to care about characters, and for silly alien fights to have meaning, you have to have drama. This works because it's Rose's Super Family in the middle of Disastertown, not because of the fanservice nature of the conflict itself. Later, when it was just flying aliens and massive jeopardy, it was boring and meaningless because there was no reason to give a shit or for those people to even be there. They stole the planet and I yawned.

Word.

My favourite shot in the episode is the second-last one. The Doctor is a thousand years old; his relationship with Rose is a few weeks for us. A single walk round the console, focusing on his work, and he's over it and composed, back to the life, still a prisoner of himself.

I don't think he's over it. He looks more resigned to me for the moment, going through the motions. I don't really think the implications have sunk in yet, that's what we get in the christmas special.

Stark put it well in the past: Pete's World is bosso. I was totally down with this episode, so I'm giving it a five. As had been mentioned, because of emotional connection with the cast, the fact that Cybermen and Daleks are actually fighting is awesome, as opposed to fanservice silliness (it still is, but it's also awesome). Can you believe that this episode actually gave me hope that they were going to do something interesting with the Daleks? I fondly remember that. Pity it didn't turn out well.

Your rating, please.

[Ford Prefect]

Your rating, please.

I was totally down with this episode, so I'm giving it a five.

[Thanas]

Excuse me while I check if my reading comprehension is better than that of a fifth-grader.

[PREDATOR490]

5/5

My personal favourite episode of the series because of the smacktalk and following Dalek vs. Cyberman battle.

The over emphasis in the Dalek reaction to the Doctor, having them backpedal just from Rose telling them a name, seems out of character and forced. The one failing point of this episode however falls entirely around that Ark. The Daleks could have easily just pushed Rose into touching the thing or threaten to zap either of them if the other didnt do it, instead they huddle around it long enough for the Doctor to come and save them. Which is incidentally the one point I find the most annoying due to watching the Daleks just sit there as he literally walks around them without pause.
This is supposed to be the guy they fear enough to backpedal from the mere mention of his name and these are the 'elite' cult of Daleks designed to devise new strategies of beating enemies so they allow their greatest enemy free reign to babble away with his sonic screwdriver in pocket long enough for him to pull it out and fuck everything up for them... not impressed.
The way that scene should have went would be:

Doctor marches in
He refuses to touch the machine
'Exterminate'
*ZAP*
Dead Doctor
*Zap Doctors body continually until he has exhausted all of his regenerations*
*Force the companions to touch the machine then Zap them*
*Daleks rule the universe*

Overall, that scene would have been more sensible and made the Daleks look smarter if they threatened to kill Rose if he didnt touch it, he touches it and stalls long enough for the chaos to get them out. The way they did it makes the Daleks looks stupid because they overlooked the Sonic Screwdriver as a potential threat when they should know better than to leave ANYTHING within the Doctor's reach, nevermind the one tool he has had for decades and used to fight the Daleks before. The lack of a threat against Rose is equally annoying since the soldier in 'Dalek' had the intellect to threaten her life into forcing the Doctor to do it's bidding and yet these Daleks didnt think of it.

Other than that, the episode is pretty good and quite dramatic, although this episode seems to have taken the Dalek ability to levitate to the extreme with flying formations and straffing runs against cybermen on the ground. Personnally, I find the straffing runs in this episode and Manhatten to be visually awful, it might be the fault of the CGI but flying Daleks dont look right.

[Stark]

I'm glad some people are honest that they have no idea what 'drama' is. The errors of fact just make it better; the Cult is supposed to know Rose is important to the Doctor through magic, they're supposed to rush to deploy the Ark when they're clearly proceeding according to SOP, and Daleks shouldn't fly because they look funny. Ha!

I actually think it's amusing how neatly people divide between people who think the 'smacktalk' is good and those who appreciate drama. I can barely stop my eyes rolling through most of the Dalek/Cyberman dialogue; it's juvenile fanservice nonsense with little dramatic content. For the pew-pew crowd, however, it's the highlight of the episode, and not that silly human drama business.

Mastubatory fan fantasies are all the more amusing when they're totally devoid of the character context from the show. I hear, if the Daleks weren't driven to near-hysteria by his mere presence, the Doctor would totally walk on in without the expectation of safety gained from millions of years of combat, and supergenius space soldiers would just blast him down instead of expecting him to have a plan! Turns out you can't change one element of a situation and expect to look anything but fucking stupid.

[El Moose Monstero]

I'll give it a 5, but my main beef with the episode was Bad Wolf Bay. From the second Rose started trying to say 'I love you', it was painfully obvious that we were going to get some sort of interference to prevent the Doctor saying it. Not because it was 'dramatic', but because it neatly avoided any form of serious repercussions for the writers - "It's ok, he never said it, so we never actually have to deal with it... oh, but apparently, anyone claiming to be him can whisper it in her ear and she'll melt, man".

I don't know what I'd have preferred - maybe him actually psychologically pushing her away to force her not to pine over him and start a new life - that would have actually been moving instead of the 'oh-ho! we didn't actually say it! Aren't we teases?', although frankly given the horror of stolen earth and journey's end, I think not bothering with that entire scene would have been good.

[Thanas]

I'll give it a 5, but my main beef with the episode was Bad Wolf Bay. From the second Rose started trying to say 'I love you', it was painfully obvious that we were going to get some sort of interference to prevent the Doctor saying it. Not because it was 'dramatic', but because it neatly avoided any form of serious repercussions for the writers - "It's ok, he never said it, so we never actually have to deal with it... oh, but apparently, anyone claiming to be him can whisper it in her ear and she'll melt, man".

Well, at that point RTD didn't really know that he was writing JE at some point. I think it is unfair to judge the scene when comparing it with JE. Let's assume that Who had ended at this point - in that context the scene works.

I have to say that in some ways it was a copout, on the other hand it works, considering that the cruel universe didn't even let him say goodbye. My main beef with JE is that it handled every plot point raised in the first two seasons in a throwaway manner, same here. RTD clearly ran out of time.

Let me post some excerpts from the original script of JE so you can see how bad RTD had thought things through:

135. EXT. BAD WOLF BAY - DAY

FX: THE TARDIS MATERIALISES. Wide open beach.

Caption: Bad Wolf Bay, Norway.

JACKIE walking out, THE DOCTOR #2 & ROSE follow, then THE DOCTOR & DONNA; the Doctor & Donna stay by the Tardis. FX: DOCTOR DUPLICATION as and when, though not often.

JACKIE
Well, fat lot of good, this is! Back of beyond. Bloody Norway! I'll have to phone your father.

THE DOCTOR #2
Oh, I never said, congratulations - you had a baby boy! What did you call him?

JACKIE
Doctor.

THE DOCTOR #2
Really?!

JACKIE
No, you plum. He's called Tony.

THE DOCTOR #2
Tony Tyler? Okay. Nice.

But Rose is looking back at the Tardis (dialogue has taken them a good 20 feet away, good distance). At the Doctor.

ROSE
...but I dont understand. What are we doing?

THE DOCTOR
We're leaving you. With your family. In the parallel universe.

DONNA
The walls of the world are closing. We'll have to go soon. It's dimensional retroclosure - see, I really get that stuff now!

ROSE
But... I came all that way. To find you.

THE DOCTOR
And you've got me. Well. Him.

ROSE
(cautous, to #2)
But... are you the same?

THE DOCTOR #2
Same man. Same memories. Same...thoughts. But a little bit better.

ROSE
In what way?

THE DOCTOR #2
Well. Better for you. I've only got one heart.

ROSE
Which means..?

THE DOCTOR #2
I'm part human. Specifically, the ageing part. I'll grow old. And never regenerate. I've only got one life, Rose Tyler. And I'm spending it here.

ROSE
One heart..?

And she puts her hand on his chest.
So intimate, now.

THE DOCTOR
He's a bit too Human, for my liking. Too fast in destroying those Daleks. He needs someone to look after him, Rose. Someone like you.

DONNA
They're not listening.

THE DOCTOR
No, they're not, are they?

Because Rose & Doctor #2 are just staring at each other.

ROSE
I stood here. On the worst day of my life. You still haven't finished that sentence.

THE DOCTOR #2
What sentence?

ROSE
'Rose Tyler...

THE DOCTOR #2
...isn't it cold?'

ROSE
Oh, you really are the same!

THE DOCTOR #2
Mmm, not quite.

And he kisses her!

Big proper kiss!

But on the Doctor. The original. Denied this.

Doctor #2 & Rose separate. So happy.

JACKIE
Actually...that was weird!

THE DOCTOR
Tell you what, here you go -

Throws them a chunk of CORAL -
Doctor #2 catches it.

THE DOCTOR (CONT'D)
This universe is in need of defending. Chunk of Tardis. Grow your own.

THE DOCTOR #2
But that takes thousands of years.

THE DOCTOR
No, because...

DONNA
...if you shatterfry the plasmic shell and modify the dimensional stabiliser to a foldback harmonic of 36.3, you accelerate growth by the power of 59!

THE DOCTOR/THE DOCTOR #2
We never thought of that!

DONNA
I'm just brilliant!

THE DOCTOR
The Doctor. The Tardis. With Rose Tyler. Just as it should be.

ROSE
(to the Doctor)
But I didn't think... What about you? You gonna be all right?

THE DOCTOR
Oh, I've got madam.

DONNA
Human with a Time Lord brain, perfect combination! We can travel the universe for ever. Best friends! And equals, just what old skinnyboy needs, an equal!

FX: the TARDIS lamp flares, the box groans.

THE DOCTOR
We've got to go. This reality's about to be sealed off. For ever.

ROSE
Bye then, Good luck!

THE DOCTOR
And you, Rose.
(to Donna)
Come on, in we get.

Donna goes inside.

JACKIE
Thank you, Doctor.

THE DOCTOR
Look after Tony!

Mentioning Tony makes Rose turn to jackie, to give her a great big hug, just so happy.

Leaving just the Doctor and Doctor #2 staring at each other.

And a terrible look passes between them.

Doctor #2 mutters something.
'Sorry.'

The Doctor just nods, grave.
Then turns, goes into the Tardis.

Rose turns back, smiling, takes Doctor #2's hand, to watch:

FX: WIDE SHOT, Doctor #2, Rose & Jackie standing there, on Bad Wolf Bay, as the TARDIS... fades away.

And then the three of them walk away, to their new life.

Then RTD noticed he has written himself into a hole at that point, let me quote from some emails:

RTD to Benjamin Cook:

That scene doesn't work. I have always known that, from the moment I typed it out, but I don't know how to fix it. Rose has to be stupid to fall in love with Doctor #2. No matter what I do, that's not her Doctor. I can elastoplast over it by saying that Doctor #2 needs Rose, but that's slight. You don't feel that. Why doesn't Rose hop into the TARDIS and go with the real Doctor? The walls of the universe are open enough for her to pop to and fro. She's always wanted to get him back, so why does she stay on Bad Wolf Bay? The hardest thing of all in that scene - and Billie might yet have problems with it - is getting Rose to walk away from the TARDIS in the first place, disguised by that funny Jackie dialogue. That, indeed, is the problem with the whole scene, that Rose has to act out of character to stay on Bad Wolf Bay. She's utterly, marvellously selfish, and would push past anyone to get to her Doctor.

I have to work out whose scene it is, too. In many ways it's the Doctor's the real Doctor's. David thinks it's a tragic scene, because it's all about the original, but that's exactly what has reduced Rose's intelligence; she'd doing what the plot demands, not what she'd demand. That's always wrong. But follow Rose's impulse and we're off into... well, plots that we can't shoot, pages of arguing, the Doctor denying her a life with him for no good reason other than my need to tie up the loose ends. Oh, it's driving me mad. In Doomsday, Bad Wolf Bay was the best scene ever, and now I've made it the location of the most unconvincing scene ever - and I don't know how to fix it. All sorts of false notes are chiming, I think I hate the kiss. That's when Rose's intelligence is zero. It makes me feel nothing, when I should be feeling everything.[...]One thing I do know: this isn't a couple-of-lines-rewrite. It's more fundamental. Julie keeps e-mailing with suggestions, like Rose saying to the original, 'But he's not you', which only makes me say, 'So why stay with him?!' This isn't a dialogue problem. There's no sentence that will paper over the cracks. It's a plot rewrite.

Benjamin Cook to Russell T. Davies:

Yes, I suppose the original Bad Wolf Bay scene, in Doomsday, worked because the Doctor and Rose had to be separated. This scene isn't working because they choose to be. The imperitive has gone. Ouch!

Now, instead of taking the logical route and have the Doctor and Rose take off together, with some future scene showing her dieing of old age or something, RTD took the copout that we all know.

All excerpts are from "The Writer's Tale". I could elaborate more, but I think those emails show the point.

[El Moose Monstero]

Oh, I'll admit I was being unfair by bringing in SE/JE, the episode deserves comparison on its own merits, I was just being flip. I am however entertained by the emails, as it seems to me that despite being aware of the problems, he seems to have ended up not following his own advice, as all the things he was complaining about still happened to some extent.

[Thanas]

Oh, I'll admit I was being unfair by bringing in SE/JE, the episode deserves comparison on its own merits, I was just being flip. I am however entertained by the emails, as it seems to me that despite being aware of the problems, he seems to have ended up not following his own advice, as all the things he was complaining about still happened to some extent.

That is a good characterization. From the same book, watch as he tries to justify his final edit:

I could see what worked and what didn't, and I realised how good the kiss was, but equally that the kiss had no consequence. That's why it wasn't earning its place. But it's obvious, in the end, isn't it? The scene is about Rose choosing between the two Doctors. So, on the last draft, finally, I've written clearly, obviously, Rose making that choice. Rose is in control. The rushes have helped, too. When Rose is in the TARDIS with Doctor #2, Billie is looking at him with sheer lust. As only Billie can do! That, too, puts the power into Rose's hands. The mechanics start to work.

And then he cut out the major part of the kiss scene (look on youtube for the confidential version) he is talking about. Also, he cut out the davros scene which had served as setup for it in which Rose does indeed demand an answer to the question, and which makes some sense out of her actions on the beach. To top it off, the "sheer look of lust" is half a second. Yeah, flimsy rationalizations FTW. "It all makes perfect sense, once you include the scenes I cut. Oh wait."

I am now of the opinion that JE was mostly such a huge clusterfuck because RTD had no idea where to go and what to do with the characters he created. In the end, it sounds like he chickened out and failed to take things to the logical conclusions. Also, from the emails and the various cut scenes I am getting the idea that a lot of the explosions and Donna-babbling shit was because RTD had nothing else to fall back on. In short, JE was the biggest clusterfuck available - guest stars who had trouble recognizing their characters, a show runner who had no idea how to end his run and finally, a lot of last minute script changes that werde all hail-mary passes.

At the moment I am wondering if RTD has realized what clusterfuck he created. He clearly know his scenes are not working, but tries to justify them anyway. Looks like he is going through the five stages and is still stuck on the first.