I am currently in a debate about the relative worth of a university degree (let's say Bachelor) when compared to a community college degree. I am arguing in favor of the university degree and so far I have pointed out the greater resources, direct access to science and the general higher level of expertise of the teachers.
Does anybody know of any other good arguments I can use?
US education system
Moderator: Alyrium Denryle
US education system
Last edited by Thanas on 2008-10-27 11:54am, edited 1 time in total.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: Us education system
I don't think that a Community College is suppose to be a 4-year institution replacement. It's there for an Associates or for you to get your grades up(or to save money).
Also, I think your thread title is pretty funny, considering the subject matter.
Also, I think your thread title is pretty funny, considering the subject matter.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Re: Us education system
You get to be in contact with other very smart people. All the others going for their degrees are bright enough to complete the previous levels AND do independant research.
Re: Us education system
Samuel wrote:You get to be in contact with other very smart people. All the others going for their degrees are bright enough to complete the previous levels AND do independant research.
Which Community College did you go to?
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Re: Us education system
I was talking about the university degree. He was asking us for advantages for that.
Re: US education system
Even that is a silly argument. You don't have to be a "Very Smart Person" to go to a University, especially if it's somewhere like Southwestern Liberal Arts & Buisness School State.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Re: US education system
You have to be smarter than if you were going to community college.
Re: US education system
They're not geared for the same purposes, though. Like Lonestar said, CCs are for associate's degrees, taking supplementary classes, getting better grades, or getting technical skills (welding, woodworking, EMT training etc.). To say one's better than the other is wrong, as they serve completely different purposes.
SDNet: Unbelievable levels of pedantry that you can't find anywhere else on the Internet!
Re: US education system
No, you don't.Samuel wrote:You have to be smarter than if you were going to community college.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Re: US education system
You don't? I thought university covered the 4 to 8 years work while community colleges covered 2 years...
Wait, community colleges are the teaching schools and universities are the research schools
Uh, never mind.
Wait, community colleges are the teaching schools and universities are the research schools
Uh, never mind.
-
Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
Re: US education system
Advantages of universities over community colleges, leaving aside unreasonable comparisons like an awful university vs a very good community college:
1) The high end of knowledge at a good university is higher than it is at a good community college. If you treat them as metaphors for a mountain of knowledge, the university is a taller mountain. That's not to say that every student (ie- stone in the mountain) is taller than every student in a community college, but as an aggregate group, they are taller.
2) The cultural diversity at a good university is greater than it is at a good community college. Community colleges tend to reflect their name: even at a good community college, their student body tends to come almost entirely from the local community, with a smaller proportion of students from distant origins than a good university will have. So you will have a potentially richer cultural experience by going to a good university.
3) University courses tend to be of generally higher quality, teaching more in-depth. In my own profession, virtually all licensed engineers went to university rather than tech college, because tech college courses just don't make the grade and their graduates need to take extra courses to qualify.
4) As a result of items #1 to #3, university degrees are more prestigious than community college diplomas.
1) The high end of knowledge at a good university is higher than it is at a good community college. If you treat them as metaphors for a mountain of knowledge, the university is a taller mountain. That's not to say that every student (ie- stone in the mountain) is taller than every student in a community college, but as an aggregate group, they are taller.
2) The cultural diversity at a good university is greater than it is at a good community college. Community colleges tend to reflect their name: even at a good community college, their student body tends to come almost entirely from the local community, with a smaller proportion of students from distant origins than a good university will have. So you will have a potentially richer cultural experience by going to a good university.
3) University courses tend to be of generally higher quality, teaching more in-depth. In my own profession, virtually all licensed engineers went to university rather than tech college, because tech college courses just don't make the grade and their graduates need to take extra courses to qualify.
4) As a result of items #1 to #3, university degrees are more prestigious than community college diplomas.
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
Re: US education system
No one goes into a Community College in the USA expecting a 4 year degree. But your statement was "You have to be smarter than if you were going to community college." Which is untrue. You could be going to CC for a bunch of reasons. You could be taking Calculus and some basic engineering concept courses, science courses beyond "101", advance Information Systems related courses etc. Because they tend to be cheaper than a four year institution and they may be able to transfer over to a four year(public) university.Samuel wrote:You don't? I thought university covered the 4 to 8 years work while community colleges covered 2 years...
Meanwhile, you have some people who go to Southwestern Liberal Arts and Business School State, major in "Recreation and Parks Services", and take a class called "Math for Liberal Arts".
So, no. You do not have to be smarter to go to a 4-year institution.
However, as DW said, a 4 year degree(depending upon the degree type, and where from) will typically open up more doors for you than a Associates Degree. BUT getting an Associates in IT from a Community College, combined with some Certs and job experience, will probably open more doors then having that degree in "communications" from Southwestern Liberal Arts and Business School State. Especially if it comes up in the interview that you're a fulltime worker and got a CC Degree while working, as opposed to the guy from Phi Fucko Jackass whose Mom and Dad paid 4(or 5) years of tuition for that degree in underwater basket weaving from Southwestern Liberal Arts and Business School State.
Clear as mud?
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
-
CaptainZoidberg
- Padawan Learner
- Posts: 497
- Joined: 2008-05-24 12:05pm
- Location: Worcester Polytechnic
- Contact:
Re: US education system
A year's tuition at a typical community college is about $4000 for in county students.
Compare that to roughly $10,000 for a state university, or $20,000-40,000 for most private schools (although that's slightly misleading because private schools tend to offer a lot of scholarship).
So for the cost of giving one person a 4 year degree at a large public university, we could give four people a 2-year associate degree's. For the cost of giving one person a 4 year degree at an expensive school like Princeton ($33k per year), we could give a whooping 16 people 2-year associate's degrees.
Is one psychologist with an expensive 4 year degree really more valuable to society than 16 nurses? Or 16 programmers? Or 16 skilled technicians? Or 16 factory workers?
Our society's priorities on education have been thrown out of whack. Instead of focusing on career preparation for the bulk of our population, we're trying to funnel everyone into college, even though the vast majority of the population doesn't have the specific mental skills required to succeed in academia.
Community college is incredibly underrated. It provides high-quality, affordable education that can prepare the bulk of our population for the careers of the future - rather than preparing a very select few for a small number of prestigious jobs. America will see great returns on any investment that it makes in our nation's community colleges.
Note that I go to a private engineering university, and not a community college. However, if I had the power to control the allocation of government funds for higher education, I would place a greater emphasis on community college than 4-year schools.
Compare that to roughly $10,000 for a state university, or $20,000-40,000 for most private schools (although that's slightly misleading because private schools tend to offer a lot of scholarship).
So for the cost of giving one person a 4 year degree at a large public university, we could give four people a 2-year associate degree's. For the cost of giving one person a 4 year degree at an expensive school like Princeton ($33k per year), we could give a whooping 16 people 2-year associate's degrees.
Is one psychologist with an expensive 4 year degree really more valuable to society than 16 nurses? Or 16 programmers? Or 16 skilled technicians? Or 16 factory workers?
Our society's priorities on education have been thrown out of whack. Instead of focusing on career preparation for the bulk of our population, we're trying to funnel everyone into college, even though the vast majority of the population doesn't have the specific mental skills required to succeed in academia.
Community college is incredibly underrated. It provides high-quality, affordable education that can prepare the bulk of our population for the careers of the future - rather than preparing a very select few for a small number of prestigious jobs. America will see great returns on any investment that it makes in our nation's community colleges.
Note that I go to a private engineering university, and not a community college. However, if I had the power to control the allocation of government funds for higher education, I would place a greater emphasis on community college than 4-year schools.