To the religious: Why do you have faith?

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-30 11:37pm

Captain_Cyran wrote:My faith, well, I'm a PK (Preacher's Kid, not Player Killer). But that hasn't effected my faith either way too much, but it's brought me much closer to religion than I probably would be (I believe in God, not so much in Jesus, and ESPECIALLY not the Bible, at least not most of it.). My dad and I get into a lot of theological disscussions, and he's also a very liberal Methodist, not as much as The Dark.

LOL...ask your father about Dr. W. Waite Willis Jr. If he knows about him (I'd give it a 50/50 chance), ask for a description...that's my advisor and theological professor. He's the author of "Theism, Atheism, and the Doctrine of the Trinity". I was a little more conservative before I ran into him. He probably dislikes fundamentalist theology at least as much (if not more) than the average member of this board. He's also part of the Board of Ministry down here, which is good and bad...good because I know him and that'll be a slight help, but bad because he's tough. He's the only professor I've gotten a B from in college so far.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-01-30 11:58pm

A lot more people that believes in god here than I thought there was, and unexpected from some of the people that came foward with it.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-01-31 12:04am

I am a believer. I was raised a Catholic, spent my entire education in Catholic schools but I have discarded many of the notions that now are just plain ridiculous to me and try to believe in the purer idea of a higher power. I am of the Einstein school on God, that this universe is too vast, too beautiful to be the result of a simple toss of the dice. Whether its an old man with a white beard and robe or a simple force of nature I cannot tell you. But there IS something out there, I can feel it in my bones.

Those are my thoughts on the subject.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-01-31 12:43am

Stravo wrote:I am a believer. I was raised a Catholic, spent my entire education in Catholic schools but I have discarded many of the notions that now are just plain ridiculous to me and try to believe in the purer idea of a higher power. I am of the Einstein school on God, that this universe is too vast, too beautiful to be the result of a simple toss of the dice. Whether its an old man with a white beard and robe or a simple force of nature I cannot tell you. But there IS something out there, I can feel it in my bones.

Those are my thoughts on the subject.

Now retype them with ellipses every third or fourth word, and it'll look and sound exactly like it was written by your avatar.

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-01-31 01:00am

Darth Wong wrote:*want to say something ...*

*must exert self ... control ...*

Easy m'Lord.....we'll smash them all later.......

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-01-31 01:23am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Darth Utsanomiko wrote:I ought to dig up that example from awhile back where I explain why I have faith that there's a Cockatrice on my parent's roof, but I'm following Wong's example for now and staying silent (or just lazy).
Please tell me more of this Cockatrice. Does it look like this <SNIP>

I haven't actually seen it, personally, but I've given reasons to suspect it's there instead of dismissing it's possible existence. But most Cockatrices I've heard about look like that, yes, but alot bigger.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-31 02:04am

I've seen it.

It looks a lot like the invisible dragon in our sister's garage.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-01-31 02:21am

No no no, she has an Impossible Possibility in her garage. It's supposed to be have some kind of a priori existence, despite it's inability to exist.

You're probably thinking of that infestation we had in summer '99 of invisible, spoon-wielding midgets.

Cthulhu-chan · Post by **Cthulhu-chan** » 2003-01-31 03:27am

My faith in the universe's completely apathetic contempt for me is affirmed each and every day. How could I possibly think otherwise? Could be worse, at least it's not actively trying to make me miserable, ey?

Rathark · Post by **Rathark** » 2003-01-31 05:57am

I come from a protestant family, but spent 10 years in Catholic school. After a few years, the whole issue of whether or not I should take communion began to seem a little artificial. However, I was so taken in by Christian morality and belief in the afterlife that it took me a while to accept that religion was a subjective matter.

I'm not in the mood to go into intricate personal details just now, but I eventually came to the conclusion that all religions contained a grain of truth wrapped up in rituals and culturally specific concepts.

Religion is good if it keeps you sane, and bad if it drives you insane. Simple.

And Deism rules

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-01-31 11:52am

I'm on the fence as to whether or not god exists. If he does, then he's not active in our lives. Given the size of the universe and the high probability the universe is full of life, humans don't even rate as bacteria in the grand scheme of things, so I strongly doubt that he would take any interest in our day-to-day lives.

That said, I find myself opposed to the idea of (western) religion. After studying history (including family history), I feel that religion is nothing more than a construct used to by those in power to control the masses. This has been shown from ancient history up to modern day. It is only recently that science has been able to begin explaining the origins of the universe and that more and more people are receiving science education; as such, I feel that western religion won't be around much longer (I give it 300 years at most). Furthermore, after thinking about it, I've concluded that morals come from the instinct to survive (which has cause humans to form groups and relations, and from which morals are derived).

Now, if someone wants to believe in religion, thats fine by me. Just don't let it get in the way of the scientific pursuit of knowledge, don't try to force your views on others, and don't think that holy books describe the nature of the universe.

I guess its fair to say that I don't faith in religion, but faith in science and knowledge.

ArthurDent · Post by **ArthurDent** » 2003-01-31 12:43pm

I have faith because of the personal experiences I have had, not because I was brought up a certain way...which I declare because some of you think that people can only have faith because they're brainwashed or were never given any freedom of thought at home.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-01-31 01:28pm

ArthurDent wrote:I have faith because of the personal experiences I have had, not because I was brought up a certain way...which I declare because some of you think that people can only have faith because they're brainwashed or were never given any freedom of thought at home.

It's not the only way, but that doesn't change the fact that 90% of Americans have faith precisely because they were brought up with it and are exposed to it daily through America's "religion = good, atheism = bad" attitude.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-01-31 02:06pm

Durandal wrote:
ArthurDent wrote:I have faith because of the personal experiences I have had, not because I was brought up a certain way...which I declare because some of you think that people can only have faith because they're brainwashed or were never given any freedom of thought at home.
It's not the only way, but that doesn't change the fact that 90% of Americans have faith precisely because they were brought up with it and are exposed to it daily through America's "religion = good, atheism = bad" attitude.

Pssst..... did the original topic not state that this could be debated elsewhere...? And I was never taught atheism was bad, despite being Catholic.

And yes, I went through plenty of Catechism, and what not, but never that it was bad... just a choice.

Well... not in the past 8 years, anyways...

Sektor31 · Post by **Sektor31** » 2003-01-31 02:40pm

verilon wrote:
Durandal wrote:
ArthurDent wrote:I have faith because of the personal experiences I have had, not because I was brought up a certain way...which I declare because some of you think that people can only have faith because they're brainwashed or were never given any freedom of thought at home.
It's not the only way, but that doesn't change the fact that 90% of Americans have faith precisely because they were brought up with it and are exposed to it daily through America's "religion = good, atheism = bad" attitude.
Pssst..... did the original topic not state that this could be debated elsewhere...? And I was never taught atheism was bad, despite being Catholic. And yes, I went through plenty of Catechism, and what not, but never that it was bad... just a choice. Well... not in the past 8 years, anyways...

During the time I was in Catholic school, I was always fed with stuff like "atheism leads you to nothingness" and "I don't know how atheists can live like they do, without a leader". God forbid if you mention paganism in there, you'd fail for the entire year (happened to a fellow classmate).

Now, though, I follow the ever-so-good religion of agnosticism. You're open to other ideals, but not closed to them either. Being close-minded against another ideology would lead to an uncertain future (look at how many lives could've been saved if cloning research was upped, instead of feared).

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-01-31 02:51pm

Sektor31 wrote:During the time I was in Catholic school, I was always fed with stuff like "atheism leads you to nothingness" and "I don't know how atheists can live like they do, without a leader". God forbid if you mention paganism in there, you'd fail for the entire year (happened to a fellow classmate).

Now, though, I follow the ever-so-good religion of agnosticism. You're open to other ideals, but not closed to them either. Being close-minded against another ideology would lead to an uncertain future (look at how many lives could've been saved if cloning research was upped, instead of feared).

I enjoyed the life of public schooling.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-01-31 03:12pm

because I can literally cannot conceive of a world without god.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-01-31 03:14pm

ArthurDent wrote:...which I declare because some of you think that people can only have faith because they're brainwashed or were never given any freedom of thought at home.

At least if you were brainwashed, you have an excuse as to why you believe in such childish things. I see you have none such.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-01-31 03:18pm

It is interesting to note that this thread specifically asked for the comments of those that had faith or a belief in some higher power. The avowed athiests have 99.9% of the rest of the board to express their opinions which they do so frequently and vocally yet when there is a single thread that is just curious as to belief they still come in and have to say what they feel.

WE GET IT.

Now how about letting some people who rarely speak up about their beliefs speak about them without fear that the athiest brigade come down on them.

I see that the abused child syndrome is alive and well, athiests have a hard time in a religious society so what do they do when they are the majority....they follow in the footsteps of those that gave them a hard time. Give it some thought folks.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-01-31 03:26pm

I can do naught but agree with Stravo whole-heartedly. IN the first post, it was specifically asked that those without faith not post and not turn this into a debate. SO much for that. Oh, well, I guess some of us can't read. But take a look at what we are saying... read, don't reply. If you want to bash on our religions then do it in one of the half of this forum's other threads. We've heard time and again how much you hate the fact that there are people that have faith, but there is not much you are going to do to convince us otherwise, so I suggest for at least the one thread, at the request of the author, just shut it. For a single thread. Is that so hard? I mean, many of us don't go aroun shooting our mouths off about our religions every single thread, so what gives you the right to do it? A question was asked to those who have faith, not to those that are against faith in general. Again, it was asked for those with faith to respond, yet I see once again we fail to understand what it is to have some form of respect such that we with faith may have a thread of sorts in which we don't have to be ambushed all over again.

That's all I have to say, I don't want to sound too heated over this (which I'm not). And please excuse the typos.. I am living up to my title again. [yawns]

~ver.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-01-31 03:50pm

I stated why I believed when I believed. The reason was brainwashing. If you don't like it, too bad.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-01-31 03:57pm

Durandal wrote:I stated why I believed when I believed. The reason was brainwashing. If you don't like it, too bad.

We never said anything about that.... just that you CONTINUE to argue, not that your belief was any more or less valid for why you think it was.. if that makes sense. No one has anything against that, but when you turn it into an arguement in a thread that was not meant for arguement... well... that's when it goes too far.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-31 04:35pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:
ArthurDent wrote:...which I declare because some of you think that people can only have faith because they're brainwashed or were never given any freedom of thought at home.
At least if you were brainwashed, you have an excuse as to why you believe in such childish things. I see you have none such.

You know what? Its none of your goddamn business what someone chooses to believe. You have taken a stand strikingly similar to the organized religions that you profess to hate.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-01-31 04:53pm

Howedar wrote:
Wicked Pilot wrote:At least if you were brainwashed, you have an excuse as to why you believe in such childish things. I see you have none such.
You know what? Its none of your goddamn business what someone chooses to believe. You have taken a stand strikingly similar to the organized religions that you profess to hate.

His stated problem was with the lack of reason for holding a belief in childish things. To be honest, he's right to a certain extent. No doubt everyone would laugh at and make fun of me if I loudly professed a belief in Santa Claus or if I claimed I had an invisible friend named Bob who tells me what to do. Hell, some people would label me insane. But when someone loudly professes a belief in God, which is every bit as childish, irrational and unreasonable as Santa Claus or Invisible Friend Bob, suddenly there is a double-standard.

At least Wicked Pilot is consistent in his opinions of such people.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-31 05:06pm

Why do you have faith?

(no offense to verilon, et al) Because they're fearful fools (unless their religion is one like deism which has no real issue with science)