Far Cry 2

[Stark]

No Ford, you and your grain bread and your drones are just economics. I'm the great equaliser!

[Singular Intellect]

I'm surprised my new friends bother communicating with me once my history is 'learned' by them. After all, if they're injured, my option is always to shoot them in the head rather than heal them, even with a full health pack loadout. And that's not even including the whole 'shoot them in the back even after rescuing me or a mission' behavior.

[Stark]

Yeah, you're a real tough guy. I'm glad you let us all know how hardcore you are. It's not like quicksave makes the buddy-res irrelevant anyway, lol?

[Zixinus]

You have no idea what you're talking about. The Jackal doesn't think you're not worth killing; he thinks he understands you, and he thinks he's going to teach you. Play more of the game. He's also openly batshit insane, so what do you want? Turns out when you get sent to fix something in an African shithole everything is not as simple as it seems? OMG.

:/

If he doesn't kill you because he's batshit insane, that's OK, its just weird that you haven't arrived by an hour or so and he's already there while you got plot-convenient malaria.

You would also expect big-name arms-trader in a big shithole to kill anyone who has any intention of killing him. If he doesn't do that because he's insane, well... ok.

I'm not bothered by the fact that not everything is as simple as it seems. Where did you jump to that conclusion?

[Stark]

That was probably the part where you said 'omg jackal doesn't kill you when you're sick is stupid'. You wait till he shows up again, or the finale. It's a shame the game doesn't have any more real 'characters', eveyrone else is either Dutch, Australian or a mercenary cipher.

[Zixinus]

That was probably the part where you said 'omg jackal doesn't kill you when you're sick is stupid'.

Just because he's insane, his action not any less stupid.

Perhaps its just my bias from the trailers, but I thought the whole Jackal-hunt was one, long, hard road of piecing together enough clues, collecting more and more information about him scoped out of warring warlords and slowly forming a picture of his identity. I expected not to see him until I actually attracted attention.

Instead, he shows up in the first five minutes, reads aloud your mission paper about his own assassination by your hands and doesn't kill you.

Insane or no, characteristic or no, that is an idiotic move on his part. You kill the guy that's sent to kill you, not give him a gun and send him his merry way. I doesn't matter what he thinks is doing, this is fucking common sense. The kind I expected from an arms trader that has been dealing with warlords and criminals for a long time.

Granted, him being insane, you being sick as hell in a town that is under siege makes it a little more believable that he simply had pity on you.

Perhaps his genius and original mind will be revealed to me later on, but my first impression of him stays the same. That plot twist feels very, very shoehorned.

[Stark]

It's like you're from a different planet.

Did you ignore the part where the whole scene was to inform you of the Jackal's beliefs and ethics? He knows you were sent to kill him; you failed, you're fired, and people like you only work for money... ergo you're no longer a threat to him. And he's fucking RIGHT; you take no action to find him at all and the next time you see him he'll be saving your life again.

It SHOULD have clued you in that he was a bit crazy, with firm ideas on how the world (the African conflict world specifically) worked, and that he felt an affinity with you and people like you... but nah, you just saw 'lol villain didn't kill teh assassin is dumb'. You missed LAYERS of meaning.

[weemadando]

It's like you're from a different planet.

Did you ignore the part where the whole scene was to inform you of the Jackal's beliefs and ethics? He knows you were sent to kill him; you failed, you're fired, and people like you only work for money... ergo you're no longer a threat to him. And he's fucking RIGHT; you take no action to find him at all and the next time you see him he'll be saving your life again.

It SHOULD have clued you in that he was a bit crazy, with firm ideas on how the world (the African conflict world specifically) worked, and that he felt an affinity with you and people like you... but nah, you just saw 'lol villain didn't kill teh assassin is dumb'. You missed LAYERS of meaning.

Let us never forget the one thing Blood Diamond taught us all: "TIA".

[CaptHawkeye]

Let us never forget the one thing Blood Diamond taught us all: "TIA".

I keep hoping someone in the game is going to say that to me.

Uh Zix, I think you missed pretty much the whole opening. The Jackal stated that your diseased, unarmed, noob ass had been fired. On top of that he has some strange fascination with the player character. So why is it so out there that he has no interest in killing you? It's not about what "makes sense" at face value. You're in a land of mindless killing perpetuated by an endless supply of mobster war lords who have gained much on the West's inability to care.

Did you watch Dark Knight and go "Jesus why doesn't the Joker just kill Bats already" even though the Joker makes it painfully clear scene after scene that killing Batman would be totally pointless in the grand scheme of his plans? You're applying a cripplingly limited outlook on antagonists here.

[Zixinus]

Question: On the local maps, in the upper-left corner, there is a diamond and a number. Does it refer to how many diamond locations are in that area or just the total value?

It's like you're from a different planet.

Yes, one that made sense.

Did you ignore the part where the whole scene was to inform you of the Jackal's beliefs and ethics?

Likely, considering you were apparently playing a different game.

*watches the intro on youtube again*

Nope, still see pretty much the same guy, who's reading up your orders to kill him than leaving you a knife and a gun.

He knows you were sent to kill him; you failed, you're fired, and people like you only work for money... ergo you're no longer a threat to him.

How was I fired? I didn't really catch how was I supposedly off the job entirely. Because he knows that you want to kill him? That makes me off entirely the job without any choice because... how exactly? There is still a chance to kill him, just a very, very small one.

If I am a mercenary, that means I am an assassin. An assassin either revokes the job or finishes it. When did I revoke the job? I looked at the journal and it mentions nothing about "well, so much for killing the Jackal".

It SHOULD have clued you in that he was a bit crazy, with firm ideas on how the world (the African conflict world specifically) worked, and that he felt an affinity with you and people like you... but nah, you just saw 'lol villain didn't kill teh assassin is dumb'. You missed LAYERS of meaning.

Or just a clumsy, shoehorned plot event that was disappointing.

All I saw was a guy with delusions of invulnerability and control, referring a book that most likely gave morals that fitted the mentality of someone like an arms trader and then taking what looks like pity on me.

Excuse me for not being impressed.

Did you watch Dark Knight and go "Jesus why doesn't the Joker just kill Bats already" even though the Joker makes it painfully clear scene after scene that killing Batman would be totally pointless in the grand scheme of his plans? You're applying a cripplingly limited outlook on antagonists here.

No, it was just that I expected a cold, calculating guy that allowed no risk in his operation, hence why he was dangerous.

Instead, I got this insane, although interesting guy who reads aloud "my" orders to kill him, tells me that I failed the job, gives me a knife and a gun, and then leaves me be.

Later on, obviously I will surprise him by killing him, because that's the primary reason to show the villain in the first ten minutes. He will think that we are all good, buddy-buddy when we actually have enough and decide to kill him for other reasons than what he expects.

[Stark]

Oh, you're one of THOSE people, who thinks they've 'worked it all out' because it's 'so obvious' and thus the interesting character and tone of the game is all just a big wait for you to be able to say 'I told you so'? It turns out that the African conflict environment is one based on personal relationships and utter disloyalty!

To be honest, I'm hoping you DON'T defeat the Jackal - I'm hoping they follow the tone of the game to it's logical conclusion, and you end up brutalised like him and the people he talks about on the tapes, bitter and jaded or broken and animalistic. If there's any plot selectiveness at all, I expect to JOIN the Jackal; better than Jackal than the likes of Voorhees and Greaves. This may be too complex for you to follow.

But hey, you couldn't work out what the diamond indicator is, so being smarter than someone is probably a rarity for you.

[Singular Intellect]

Yeah, you're a real tough guy. I'm glad you let us all know how hardcore you are. It's not like quicksave makes the buddy-res irrelevant anyway, lol?

I'm just seeing how ruthless the game will let you be. My next pass through the game will be much more humane and will be intented to play as the 'decent' sort.

So far I've noticed that you seemingly have to rescue another individual in order to continue the main story line if you keep killing all your friends.

I also want to see how much easier it is to get medicine, or if I even notice a difference.

[thejester]

Yeah so this thread finally convinced me to take the plunge and buy a 360 with FC2 as the first game.

First impressions:

- My initial reaction to the first Jackal tape was 'ZOMG Apocalypse Now!', but its done well enough that the rip-off aspect isn't a big deal.

- The checkpoints thing has become somewhat tiresome, and I'm only an hour or two in.

- Fuck this thing has potential. The range of missions is so vast, it's a pity that the basic environments all look so smilar.

[Ford Prefect]

Oh, you're one of THOSE people, who thinks they've 'worked it all out' because it's 'so obvious' and thus the interesting character and tone of the game is all just a big wait for you to be able to say 'I told you so'? It turns out that the African conflict environment is one based on personal relationships and utter disloyalty!

Hilarious. He quotes directly from Beyond Good and Evil, for Christ's sake; a book which is about the foolishness of traditional morality and the blind acceptance of that tradition. It should be - and I found it - extremely unambiguous exactly what was going on in that scene, which has been one of the most effectively plotted moments I've seen in video games over the past year. In one fell, delirious swoop it establishes the character of the Jackal and the tone of the game. I was hooked on the basis of that scene alone.

[Zixinus]

Oh, you're one of THOSE people, who thinks they've 'worked it all out' because it's 'so obvious' and thus the interesting character and tone of the game is all just a big wait for you to be able to say 'I told you so'?

No, Stark, I'm one of THOSE people that can see an obvious plot twist a fucking mile away and hope that it won't actually happen.

To be honest, I'm hoping you DON'T defeat the Jackal - I'm hoping they follow the tone of the game to it's logical conclusion, and you end up brutalised like him and the people he talks about on the tapes, bitter and jaded or broken and animalistic. If there's any plot selectiveness at all, I expect to JOIN the Jackal; better than Jackal than the likes of Voorhees and Greaves. This may be too complex for you to follow.

Or maybe, just maybe the intro was a modified in the last minute of the development to shoehorn a plot event that I guess was to happen a bit later?

Or am I not allowed to be not impressed? Is that it?

But hey, you couldn't work out what the diamond indicator is, so being smarter than someone is probably a rarity for you.

Right, because being unable to figure out a vague scribble on the map means is an excellent indicator of intelligence. After all, asking a simple question to confirm your guess must be a sign of mental retardation!

I presume someone not being impressed by something you are impressed with must also be a rarity for you. Or you know, having a valid, differing opinion must also be a completely alien concept for you. Or just having something that bugs someone regarding something you like must also be a terrible pain in your side, because everyone must see it your way. After all, you can't allow yourself to be WRONG in any way, now can we?

So, go fuck yourself Stark. My problem was a minor one, a nitpick in the story. To me, killing a guy with orders to kill you is a standard precaution. But he didn't, because if he did, there wouldn't be much of a plot unless you are somehow an undead guy. So he doesn't kill me for whatever reason. Fine. I was just not terribly impressed with it.

Let me get this whole shit straight: I like the Jackal's character. He's really someone I expect to be, a guy who has seen enough to consider selling guns fueling mini-wars an accaptable practise. Judging by his tapes, he seems someone who can be actually relatable.

I don't actually want to kill the guy. I'd like to see the story unfold. I just can't quite wrap my head around the idea of why he didn't kill me when he was reading "my" orders to kill him.

What I didn't like was the hurried feel of the intro. I'm not ten minutes in the country and I suddenly have a malaria attack. I'm not in the country for more than a day or so and I have the Jackal in my hotel room. Excuse me for my sense of believability is strained.

[Stark]

I love how you get all butthurt over the diamond thing, when I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THERE WAS A QUICKSAVE BUTTON. I didn't bother trying to iron-in the mounted MGs either. Clearly I should be angry and bitter at Zac and JSF because I didn't bother reading the manual! IT'S THEIR FAULT DAMMIT.

Turns out your opinion based on ignorance and intentional rejection of themes isn't a very worthwhile one; who knew? It's obvious that your first post was one simply based on ignorance of the game's themes, and you've just become more hardline on this issue as more people have told you you missed the point. If you don't like the FC2 portrayl of the giant grey area of Africa and how it messes people up, that's fine; don't try and tell me the intro is weak or contrived or whatever just because you don't understand it.

[seanrobertson]

I rented the game for my X360. It controls beautifully and looks even better.

Still, something about the game simply doesn't grab me. As far as I can tell, the shooting action's excellent and there's depth aplenty; but even from the start, the malaria fits and fucked-up "check the map while trying to drive" bullshit was a turn-off.

I was all set to have a big boner for the game, but trying to navigate the chickenshit dirt roads whilst constantly checking my big, obtrusive map ruined the experience for me early on.

If I didn't have a contract pending and owned, not simply rented, this game, I'm sure I'd have a more favorable impression of it. But as-is, I see a pretty mess.

[Stark]

I told JSF people would hate having to actually DO things ingame. It's a big draw to minimise the UI and put everything 'ingame' for many people, but having to - gosh - navigate around an African wilderness isn't for everyone. I'm not sure exactly how it matters where the map is displayed myself (unless the 360 resolution makes it impossible to both see where you're driving and the map board as well, as you can on PC).

[Zixinus]

I love how you get all butthurt over the diamond thing, when I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THERE WAS A QUICKSAVE BUTTON. I didn't bother trying to iron-in the mounted MGs either. Clearly I should be angry and bitter at Zac and JSF because I didn't bother reading the manual! IT'S THEIR FAULT DAMMIT.

I was not angry over the question, asshole. What I was angry over was that instead of a simple answer, I got mockery and insults. Excuse me for getting mad over that, but judging by your attitude, I think that was very much intentional.

It's obvious that your first post was one simply based on ignorance of the game's themes, and you've just become more hardline on this issue as more people have told you you missed the point. If you don't like the FC2 portrayl of the giant grey area of Africa and how it messes people up, that's fine; don't try and tell me the intro is weak or contrived or whatever just because you don't understand it.

Yes, because having a malaria attack in the first ten minutes of the country (while malaria actually takes at least weeks to manifest) is by no means an obvious and forced plot twist. The Jackal inexplicably showing up in your hotel room must also go without argument, for it is brilliant and does not leave any kind of plot holes nor confusion.

A few sentences from either the Jackal or even in your journal would have easily cleared any of the confusion up. Like, after reading your mission orders, "It does pay to have ears in a hotel because we both know that there is no way you can do the job now." or something like that would have closed some of the plot holes.

I still like the game, hell, I love it. It's the first non-broken game I've played in a while.

I could go into more of this (in fact, I wanted to, but don't see much of a point in retrospect), but this pissing match bores me. So, fuck off.

[Stark]

The malaria thing caught me out; I didn't pay attention to the taxi and didn't read the manual, so I had assumed you'd been there for some time (rather than having just that second arrived).

It's fabulous you've done the classic troll stuff of strawmanning and then declaring the discussion over; it's sad that you demand others accept and respect your totally subjective opinon ('lol is bad') but you utterly refuse to accept anyone elses (like anyone saying 'it's good and thematic').

[Ohma]

Yes, because having a malaria attack in the first ten minutes of the country (while malaria actually takes at least weeks to manifest) is by no means an obvious and forced plot twist. The Jackal inexplicably showing up in your hotel room must also go without argument, for it is brilliant and does not leave any kind of plot holes nor confusion.

That's not a twist, that's a contrivance, it could've just as easily been "ohnoes car wreck!" or "hey, you drugged my beer you assho~*thud*". Man, *that's* what you're all in a hissy fit over? That there's a contrivance that stretches your suspension of disbelief a bit in the intro segment of the game?

[seanrobertson]

I told JSF people would hate having to actually DO things ingame. It's a big draw to minimise the UI and put everything 'ingame' for many people, but having to - gosh - navigate around an African wilderness isn't for everyone.

I don't have a serious problem traversing a large game. I loved that aspect of Oblivion, the GTAs and so on.

Just the same, I would have preferred that I got a good feel for the game in general before I was sent to the opposite corner of the "world."

I'm not sure exactly how it matters where the map is displayed myself (unless the 360 resolution makes it impossible to both see where you're driving and the map board as well, as you can on PC).

I don't mean the GPS. I mean the actual map. The GPS was readable but its scope was barely beyond line-of-sight, so it was little help.

[charlemagne]

I don't mean the GPS. I mean the actual map. The GPS was readable but its scope was barely beyond line-of-sight, so it was little help.

Well yeah, it's no problem on PC to drive around with the map open. I do that all the time, because navigating with only the GPS sucks.

[seanrobertson]

I don't mean the GPS. I mean the actual map. The GPS was readable but its scope was barely beyond line-of-sight, so it was little help.

Well yeah, it's no problem on PC to drive around with the map open.

I wish I could've done that No matter how I held the map, it occupied a fat portion of my view.

[thejester]

I didn't have a problem on 360 - once you drove the map semi-recessed so you can still see the road.