SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread III

[Bluewolf]

Ok, proposed Task force to help Astaria and South Astaria (the latter will be mainly getting the military stuff):

Navy

1 LHD
1 LPD
2 DDG
2 FFG
4 Corvette
1 SSN
1 AOE
1 AO

Army

6000 Pro Troops
1000 Engineers
500 Patatroopers
50 MBT GEN 3
60 MBT GEN 2
180 AFV GEN 3
200 AFV GEN 2
20 Medium SP Artillery
8 Towed Medium Artillery
16 Field Towed Artilley
18 Medium Defence Artilley
8 Attack Copters
18 Light Attack Copters
20 Utility Copters

Airforce:

6 Eurofighters
8 F-16'S
3 Super Tucano
1 B-1B Lancer
3 Tornado's
2 Tristar KC1 Tanker
1 E-3D AWACS
8 Globemaster III's
5 C130 K Hercules
5 C-17 Spartans
3 CP-140 Aurora
4 S-3 Grey Wolf Viking

AID:

15 Hosital Ships (with decontamination gear)
10 Large Cargo Ships

That is really sparce and I kind of need more people to pledge in to make sure this is effective

[Coyote]

I'd say Japanistan will probably just become the grumpy version of Khitan. If we stay off his lawn, we can be free to work around them.

[Siege]

If I may.... wouldn't it just be better for the game if the whole thing is retconned?

I'm with RogueIce here, although I think Astaria should be hit far worse just to counterbalance the total destruction of Shepistan. It strikes me as a bit odd (yeah I know, probably bad choice of words considering the situation) that Astaria would do relatively well whereas the other major player in the war is experiencing a total die-back. If only because it makes us look like arseholes to distribute a cure to the slavers but not to the Sheppos (no matter how much I hate them for the shit they pulled).

PS: Alright that's not entirely honest. Part of me would prefer Astaria to go the way of the Dodo because of a lingering suspicion that if Norseman returns to the game, sooner or later Sheppard will actually be proven to have been right all along. Which frankly is something I wouldn't like to see happen at all.

[Norseman]

Actually there are a few other very good reasons why Astaria would do much better than Shepistan:

1. Astaria was ready for it. They were expecting a biological attack, they had already massively restricted travel, they had all the procedures in place. Shepistan wasn't and didn't. That incidentally makes a huge, huge difference. Seriously it does.

2. Astaria is an organised western style state, Shepistan was and is a shithole. That also makes a big difference.

3. Shepistans attack vectors (missiles flying at 60K feet) is not ideal, compared to Astarias attacks which dropped bomblets which THEN began spreading the goodies.

4. Given that Astaria had abolished slavery, issued ironclad guarantees that indentured servitude couldn't become slavery-by-a-different-name, and that Shepistan struck first it doesnt seem unreasonable to give them the cures first.

5. FUN and other states sent tons of other help to Astaria the moment the crisis was known, while Shepistan was pretty much left on its own. That would also make a big difference.

6. (Optional) Also Q issued cures for the SHEPISTANI nasties, so some of the Astarian influenza viruses and shit could still be uncured, though the Astarians *would* share the vaccine ASAP with FUN and the OD.

[Siege]

Well, since you got Shroom and PeZook to sign onto your side I would be willing to take your word for it, but, um, apparently Beowulf just coated your Anthrax-covered island with an additional layer of chemical warfare agents. That was, uh, rather unexpected...

[Norseman]

Well, since you got Shroom and PeZook to sign onto your side I would be willing to take your word for it, but, um, apparently Beowulf just coated your Anthrax-covered island with an additional layer of chemical warfare agents. That was, uh, rather unexpected...

Many of these missiles will be shot down, the Astarian IADS and brilliant pebble system would still be operational, so would the navy (which can go out to sea to avoid infection). As for the rest... well... Chemical weapons are of course bad, but they can be dealt with. We are talking deaths in the tens of thousands at most I'd think, but even hundreds of thousands (highly unlikely) pale compared to the recent megadeaths.

Of course ... this will tend to reinforce the Astarian idea that everyone wants to kill them. It's silly I know but there you are!

[Bluewolf]

I am still sending my forces just for rebuilding and being able to have some kind of minor precessnce in the area. Hope that is ok with you lot.

[Siege]

Incidentally, Norseman, I find myself wondering... From where did you suddenly get a 100 million population (before the war started, obviously)? After all, you insist that you're an organized western nation instead of a shithole, but the GDP for Astaria at the start of the game would be the same as that of San Dorado, EG $350 billion, give or take a spare million. That works out to a GDP of $3,500 per capita (less than half that of Angola). To some extent I guess you could handwave that upward by saying "well slaves don't count" (I do a similar thing with the oodles of poor sweatshop workers), but still - that's a long way away from first world GDP. Am I missing something here?

[Norseman]

From my country description, note that GNP would have gone up to around $777B by the time of the attack, but this will illustrate the issue:

GDP: $750 billion USD

Astaria
Citizens: $10 000
Slave: $2 485

South Velaria
Citizen: $10 000
Free Resident: $3 500
Slave: $750

Population: Astaria proper 75 million (58 Citizen; 17 slave)
South Velaria 35 million (5.25 Citizen; 19.25 free; 10.5 slave)

So the GNP per capita of Astaria proper would be $8200, though this is not PPP. So Astaria proper would qualify as a developed country, and the PPP adjustment would be weird due to the way slavery would skew the value of labour.

South Velaria on the other hand would have a GNP per capita of $3650 (though closer to $4000 by 2010) and would most certainly qualify as a developing area with some prosperous enclaves.

Basically slavery and the presence of South Velaria does strange things to the Astarian GNP calculations, but overall Astaria proper *is* a developed country.

[Siege]

$750 billion? It's a mite late to raise a ruckus about it now, but as I understood it our GDPs were supposed to be rather postcount-related. Never mind though, that's nitpicking after the fact. It's interesting to see just how underdeveloped South Velaria is, but then again considering the continent that is to be expected.

[Norseman]

I was granted a special dispensation since I'd been here for so long, I was advanced one notch up.

[Siege]

I was granted a special dispensation since I'd been here for so long, I was advanced one notch up.

A half year makes all the difference in the world, it seems . No worries, I'd rather do with a smaller population than continually get the short end of the stick like you do...

[Bluewolf]

Well Norse your country is now going to be a point of interest for me.

[DarthShady]

Norse didn't you say you were quitting the game? Why the interest to come back and rule over a ruined shithole?

[Shroom Man 777]

Why is Beowolf chemically attacking Asstaria?

[K. A. Pital]

Norseman and Skimmer and Shep quit.

We didn't kill Shep so that Norseman can declare ass-backwards "victory" of some sort, especially as wars have zero to do with public opinion.

If you quit, that's it. No return.

If you will weasel, Norse, I will start chemically cleaning your nation of dangerous contaminants right now. With supertoxins. Actually, that's what we need to do anyway in those lifeless lands.

[Karmic Knight]

If you will weasel, Norse, I will start chemically cleaning your nation of dangerous contaminants right now. With supertoxins. Actually, that's what we need to do anyway in those lifeless lands.

No fire?

[Beowulf]

Why is Beowulf chemically attacking Asstaria?

For using Biological weapons, especially in a manner likely to result in damage to targets other than that intended. That said, aside from the fact that the Tomahawks came out of nowhere, there's nothing much to link the attack to me specifically. Tomahawks are cheap and plentiful.

[K. A. Pital]

No, Astaria would not be operational after sprayed with over 100 tons of shit.

Norseman quit - and if he wants to break his word... *calculated the number of nuclear devices to explode over Astaria*

[TimothyC]

Hey Stas - do we still get along well?

[Bluewolf]

Btw Stas I have quite reached any of Astaria yet, they have set off so to speak.

[K. A. Pital]

Hey Stas - do we still get along well?

Yeah, sure.

Also, ressurecting dead nations? Skimmer just left with Japanistan intact, but Shepistan and Astaria are for all intents and purposes, nigh completely dead - or will be within mere months, which is occuring now.

I would believe Astaria and Shepistan are nothing more than sealed-off nuclear testing grounds. "Occupying" them is a futile attempt until decades pass (with 100 grams per square kilometere of anthrax-derived agents dispersed, do you really ever want to set foot in there?)

[Lonestar]

Still stopping the flow of refugees into the country....

[TimothyC]

Hey Stas - do we still get along well?

Yeah, sure.

Cool. Any chance I can buy some nukes for Oil and/or Skybolts?

[CmdrWilkens]

Going back, I'm sticking with the interpretation I laid out which is for:

Astaria: 20-25% dead
Shepistan 30-35% Dead
East Shepistan: 50%+ (and rising) dead [this will probably cap somewhere around 60-70% at which point there aren't enough people left to call it a country or even a region any more)
Old Dominion: 5% (from collateral hits and some spillover despite stringent border precautions)

Stas you may be able to smack Shep a nice one with a massive attack but, as with the masive MESS strikes the previous year you are going to suffer damage and a true kill [50% + dead] just isn't likely.