Different size star gate

[dragon]

Don't know if this has ever been answered. But what happens if the puddle jumper (designed for a normal gate) dials to a small gate such as the one the Tollan's had?

[Ender]

The word "splat" springs to mind...

[NecronLord]

Yeah. I expect it'd re-create a central core of the thing, and hold the rest in the buffer.

On the other hand, if you dialled an Ori supergate into an ordinary stargate, and flew a ship through, the sheer amount of energy involved should surely make the normal stargate explode.

[Bilbo]

Yeah. I expect it'd re-create a central core of the thing, and hold the rest in the buffer.

On the other hand, if you dialled an Ori supergate into an ordinary stargate, and flew a ship through, the sheer amount of energy involved should surely make the normal stargate explode.

Didnt they jump a Ori supergate to a normal gate located in the Pegasus galaxy to keep it from being used by the Ori? Which would suggest that a normal and a super can be connected together.

As for the Tolan gate. I doubt the result would be good but could a puddle jumper even dial in the Milky Way galaxy? The symbols are completely different. Finally its really a moot point, as far as we know the Tolan gate was destoyed by Anubis.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

As for the Tolan gate. I doubt the result would be good but could a puddle jumper even dial in the Milky Way galaxy? The symbols are completely different. Finally its really a moot point, as far as we know the Tolan gate was destoyed by Anubis.

"Mobius" had a puddle jumper being used in the Milky Way by people who weren't even as familiar with the Stargate system as the modern SGC.

[Bilbo]

As for the Tolan gate. I doubt the result would be good but could a puddle jumper even dial in the Milky Way galaxy? The symbols are completely different. Finally its really a moot point, as far as we know the Tolan gate was destoyed by Anubis.

"Mobius" had a puddle jumper being used in the Milky Way by people who weren't even as familiar with the Stargate system as the modern SGC.

You are right. Forgot about that one. That one though was found in this galaxy so it would make sense that it was configured to work in this gate system. Considering the pish button system used to dial in a jumper I wonder if they can reprogram for the local gate like touch panels or if they have to be manually changed by someone.

[General Zod]

Shouldn't there be safety mechanisms in place to prevent larger gates from dialing to smaller ones? They already have safety mechanisms to keep it from dialing to a gate with an obscured Iris, so not including something like this would be massively boneheaded. (I know, I know, Ancient technology has poor failure rates but gates seem to be mostly stable).

[Bilbo]

Shouldn't there be safety mechanisms in place to prevent larger gates from dialing to smaller ones? They already have safety mechanisms to keep it from dialing to a gate with an obscured Iris, so not including something like this would be massively boneheaded. (I know, I know, Ancient technology has poor failure rates but gates seem to be mostly stable).

Well the Tolan gate was a one-off built by the Tolan people. Second we do not know if there have ever been supergates in the past or if they are a new invention of the Ori. Supergates though lead to an interesting thought. The Ori for whatever reason do not possess the ability to build intergalactic hyperdrives the way the Ancients and Asgard are. If they did then there would be no reason to build the supergates at all. Unless the Ori galaxy is opposite side of the Universe and too far to travel even with an Asgard hyperdrive.

[NecronLord]

Didnt they jump a Ori supergate to a normal gate located in the Pegasus galaxy to keep it from being used by the Ori? Which would suggest that a normal and a super can be connected together.

They can be connected from smaller to larger. We've only seen the reverse with normal gates dialling in to Tollana.

As for the Tolan gate. I doubt the result would be good but could a puddle jumper even dial in the Milky Way galaxy? The symbols are completely different. Finally its really a moot point, as far as we know the Tolan gate was destoyed by Anubis.

Yes. We've seen Pegasus jumpers using the milky way gate system. (Return Pt 2)

Shouldn't there be safety mechanisms in place to prevent larger gates from dialing to smaller ones? They already have safety mechanisms to keep it from dialing to a gate with an obscured Iris, so not including something like this would be massively boneheaded. (I know, I know, Ancient technology has poor failure rates but gates seem to be mostly stable).

Actually, Ancient technology doesn't fuck up much at all. Sure, some of thier things are dangerous (hilarious explosive tumour machine anyone?) but drones, ZPMs, gates, dialling devices, city shps, and jumpers; they all operate just fine after thousands of years of maintainance; some, millions of years. We can hardly criticise; our computers don't last more than five years, in most cases. Their drone chairs can be in ten thousand years of constant operation (The Tower) maintained by primatives, and work just fine.

It generally fails when it's a prototype (Aterro device) or when people mess about with it.

And no, there's no such safety system that we've seen. The Tau'ri gate locked onto the Tollan one just fine. Of course, it's possible that between the Tollan and the Nox, they knew how to circumvent that.

Also, the jumper isn't actually as large as the gate, there's some significant gap. It's not possible to accurately scale the Tollan gate, but it's possible that it's big enough to fit one through anyway.

[Crazedwraith]

The Tau'ri dialer routine;y by-passes a lot of safety protocols though (Red Sky) and Flat out ignores a lot of feed back from the gate (48 Hours) so its hardly a typical example.

[NecronLord]

The Tau'ri dialer routine;y by-passes a lot of safety protocols though (Red Sky) and Flat out ignores a lot of feed back from the gate (48 Hours) so its hardly a typical example.

We've also seen Zipacna arrive on Tollana by stargate. And while the goa'uld possess their own custom diallers, there was no mention of such.

[Lancer]

Ancient hyperdrive technology has never been all that impressive. Remember, Goa'uld technology is for the most part stolen from Ancient tech, and they've never expanded beyond the Milky Way. The Ancients used ZPM-equipped city-ships in order to travel between Galaxies, implying that their conventional power generation abilities were insufficient for intergalactic trips. The Ori had very much the same starting tech-base of the Ancients, but unlike the Ancients, they didn't bother developing new technologies at the plot-device scale.

The Asgard were pretty much the only race to develop ship-scale hyperdrives capable of rapid travel between galaxies.

[NecronLord]

Ancient hyperdrive technology has never been all that impressive.

Depends. The Asuran city ship was going relatively slowly, positively dawdling, given that we know that Asuras and Lantea are fairly close together, within a few hundred light years IIRC. But those city ships are not dedicated transports/warships. That's about the only instance of quantifiable speed.

Remember, Goa'uld technology is for the most part stolen from Ancient tech, and they've never expanded beyond the Milky Way.

They've also never had much chance to expand.

The Ancients used ZPM-equipped city-ships in order to travel between Galaxies, implying that their conventional power generation abilities were insufficient for intergalactic trips.

ZPMs are the conventional power supply for city ships. Auroras can power an intergalactic drive on their main power plant, though it's not their standard engine configuration.

The Ori had very much the same starting tech-base of the Ancients, but unlike the Ancients, they didn't bother developing new technologies at the plot-device scale.

And they're happily able to get to the Ida galaxy when they need to. What's more, the Alterans had a functioning intergalactic drive (albeit, a slow one, according to the account) when they left.

The Asgard were pretty much the only race to develop ship-scale hyperdrives capable of rapid travel between galaxies.

We've never seen a 'modern' intergalactic-drive Ancient ship in action, so there's no way to know. They could be thousands of times faster than the Asgard.

[Johonebesus]

Yeah. I expect it'd re-create a central core of the thing, and hold the rest in the buffer.

On the other hand, if you dialled an Ori supergate into an ordinary stargate, and flew a ship through, the sheer amount of energy involved should surely make the normal stargate explode.

Didnt they jump a Ori supergate to a normal gate located in the Pegasus galaxy to keep it from being used by the Ori? Which would suggest that a normal and a super can be connected together.

I think you have it backwards. They used an explosion to cause a wormhole between two normal stargates to jump from the normal gate to a super gate at the Milky Way end.

[Bilbo]

Didnt they jump a Ori supergate to a normal gate located in the Pegasus galaxy to keep it from being used by the Ori? Which would suggest that a normal and a super can be connected together.

They can be connected from smaller to larger. We've only seen the reverse with normal gates dialling in to Tollana.

As for the Tolan gate. I doubt the result would be good but could a puddle jumper even dial in the Milky Way galaxy? The symbols are completely different. Finally its really a moot point, as far as we know the Tolan gate was destoyed by Anubis.

Yes. We've seen Pegasus jumpers using the milky way gate system. (Return Pt 2)

Shouldn't there be safety mechanisms in place to prevent larger gates from dialing to smaller ones? They already have safety mechanisms to keep it from dialing to a gate with an obscured Iris, so not including something like this would be massively boneheaded. (I know, I know, Ancient technology has poor failure rates but gates seem to be mostly stable).

Actually, Ancient technology doesn't fuck up much at all. Sure, some of thier things are dangerous (hilarious explosive tumour machine anyone?) but drones, ZPMs, gates, dialling devices, city shps, and jumpers; they all operate just fine after thousands of years of maintainance; some, millions of years. We can hardly criticise; our computers don't last more than five years, in most cases. Their drone chairs can be in ten thousand years of constant operation (The Tower) maintained by primatives, and work just fine.

It generally fails when it's a prototype (Aterro device) or when people mess about with it.

And no, there's no such safety system that we've seen. The Tau'ri gate locked onto the Tollan one just fine. Of course, it's possible that between the Tollan and the Nox, they knew how to circumvent that.

Also, the jumper isn't actually as large as the gate, there's some significant gap. It's not possible to accurately scale the Tollan gate, but it's possible that it's big enough to fit one through anyway.

In Return Pt2 werent they using the galaxy link of stargates? If that is the case then the puddlejumper did not control the Stargates the special program written by McKay and Sam did. If I am remembering wrong then nevermind.

[Themightytom]

Didnt they jump a Ori supergate to a normal gate located in the Pegasus galaxy to keep it from being used by the Ori? Which would suggest that a normal and a super can be connected together.

They can be connected from smaller to larger. We've only seen the reverse with normal gates dialling in to Tollana.

[/quote]

We also saw them use the little gate to dial the SGC's gate when they went home so it msut work both ways. On the other hand a person fits through both gates, I feel like without the full blown event horizin the smaller stargate would not have enough surface area to reassemble a jumper that is larger than the gate is. maybe it can reassemble it to scale and theres a teenie tiny ori mothership cruising the event horizon of the pegasus black hole :-p

We've never seen a 'modern' intergalactic-drive Ancient ship in action, so there's no way to know. They could be thousands of times faster than the Asgard.

[/quote]

Thats a little doubtful they would have used them to go back to the milky way isntead of ditching them on various planets.

[Bilbo]

Didnt they jump a Ori supergate to a normal gate located in the Pegasus galaxy to keep it from being used by the Ori? Which would suggest that a normal and a super can be connected together.

They can be connected from smaller to larger. We've only seen the reverse with normal gates dialling in to Tollana.

We also saw them use the little gate to dial the SGC's gate when they went home so it msut work both ways. On the other hand a person fits through both gates, I feel like without the full blown event horizin the smaller stargate would not have enough surface area to reassemble a jumper that is larger than the gate is. maybe it can reassemble it to scale and theres a teenie tiny ori mothership cruising the event horizon of the pegasus black hole :-p

We've never seen a 'modern' intergalactic-drive Ancient ship in action, so there's no way to know. They could be thousands of times faster than the Asgard.

[/quote]

Thats a little doubtful they would have used them to go back to the milky way isntead of ditching them on various planets.[/quote]

Well it was implied that the Ancients intentionally built their ships with slower hyperdrives so that if one was lost the Wraith would not get a hold of the technology.

[NecronLord]

In Return Pt2 werent they using the galaxy link of stargates? If that is the case then the puddlejumper did not control the Stargates the special program written by McKay and Sam did. If I am remembering wrong then nevermind.

The user dials normally into the first stargate on the route. Then the stargates in question forward the passage to the next. They use the same technique Anubis used on his Khalek-planet, which is to store the passenger in the buffer, and forward it on to the next gate. The jumper can thus normally access the milky way gates at both ends.

Thats a little doubtful they would have used them to go back to the milky way isntead of ditching them on various planets.

This is precisely what they did. The Triia - damaged in combat - set a course for Earth when it heard of the evacuation, it didn't ditch.

What's more, we've never seen one ditched. The Aurora was completely mission-killed. The Hippafaralcus was in a drydock. It had no crew to fly it, that we know of. Presumably the yard's workers evacuated by stargate.

[Braedley]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever done the scaling on the Tollan gate? I thought it had the same inner diameter, but wasn't as bulky. Also, O'Neill's comment ("Our's bigger") can't necessarily be taken at face value, since he's been know to make such comments in jest before.

In any case, Bilbo, I think you should spend more time thinking about what you're going to post than the time you actually spend posting. You don't seem to be drawing from all the available facts here, and you've questioned stated canon.

[Themightytom]

This is precisely what they did. The Triia - damaged in combat - set a course for Earth when it heard of the evacuation, it didn't ditch.

You mean the one travelling at near lightspeed and NOT using an intergalactic hyperdirve?

What's more, we've never seen one ditched. The Aurora was completely mission-killed. The Hippafaralcus was in a drydock. It had no crew to fly it, that we know of. Presumably the yard's workers evacuated by stargate.

THEY DITCHED IT! are you suggesting that the people who BUILT the ship (You ahve stated they are "yard workers") were somehow not capable of flying after we saw Shepherd do it by sitting down and THINKING about it? It was hidden because they couldn't get it somewhere else. Rodney got the hyperdrive working all by himself so the original owners could probably ahve done the same, which implies it could get "Away" but not far enough ie: out of the galaxy.

[NecronLord]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever done the scaling on the Tollan gate? I thought it had the same inner diameter, but wasn't as bulky. Also, O'Neill's comment ("Our's bigger") can't necessarily be taken at face value, since he's been know to make such comments in jest before.

It's not possible, AFAIK. It's only ever seen in partial shots, with nothing to scale against.

You mean the one travelling at near lightspeed and NOT using an intergalactic hyperdirve?

Stop. Think. How could it be in the middle of the three million light year intergalactic void if it started out relativistic. This is, in fact, such a massive plot hole that the writers felt compelled to hang a lantern on it, and have the characters specficially point out, and then the Ancients repeat, that they started out under hyperdrive, and the hyperdrive broke down on the way.

THEY DITCHED IT! are you suggesting that the people who BUILT the ship (You ahve stated they are "yard workers") were somehow not capable of flying

Because everyone who works on a fighter plane is capable of flying it... Oh, wait.

For all you know, the work crew was either inadequate to fly it, or were perhaps even more numerous than the thing could carry.

after we saw Shepherd do it by sitting down and THINKING about it?

And Sheppard is a trained pilot, who's been regularly flying puddle jumpers in combat missions for two years by that point. And of course, it was really in a condition for intergalactic flight at that point, oh, wait.

And finally, no, the engines of the Hippafaralcus remained offline throughout Inferno aside from a brief hyperdrive jump. In fact, there's no indication that at any point, its sublights were online during its stay in the hands of the Tau'ri, and that its hyperdrive was anything approaching reliable (which would risk leaving its users stranded like those of the Triia in your scenario)

It was hidden because they couldn't get it somewhere else.

Are you kidding? That ancient facility wasn't hidden at all. It had great big observation decks right in front of the stargate, in their distinctive architectural style. What more do you want, a big sign saying 'Camel-lantean Shipyards' on the side?

Rodney got the hyperdrive working all by himself so the original owners could probably ahve done the same, which implies it could get "Away" but not far enough ie: out of the galaxy.

Why would they want to? It was not ready for battle. Why waste time and effort making it ready to go to Earth, when they know of no enemy there they'll need it against? When they can just step through the stargate. Hell, you're assuming that the resources still existed to make the Hippafaralcus fully operational. They brought their existing ships with them.

[Oskuro]

Oh, so we're talking about the Tollan gate, I thought the OP referred to the Mini-Gate that descended ancient built in Carter's basement.

I'm guessing that the gate won't reassemble items it can't get through, and the pattern will probably get deleted.
As for the Puddle-Jumpers, the Pegasus Gate System was built after the Milky Way System, so it would be reasonable to assume that the DHD on the Jumper is backwards-compatible. As a matter of fact, the Ancients had Jumpers before they left Earth (one is seen at the beginning of the pilot, if I recall correctly), so it's probable that the system is the very same, only that the gates were built in a new style.

[Bilbo]

Oh, so we're talking about the Tollan gate, I thought the OP referred to the Mini-Gate that descended ancient built in Carter's basement.

I'm guessing that the gate won't reassemble items it can't get through, and the pattern will probably get deleted.
As for the Puddle-Jumpers, the Pegasus Gate System was built after the Milky Way System, so it would be reasonable to assume that the DHD on the Jumper is backwards-compatible. As a matter of fact, the Ancients had Jumpers before they left Earth (one is seen at the beginning of the pilot, if I recall correctly), so it's probable that the system is the very same, only that the gates were built in a new style.

The gate address symbols are completely different in Pegasus right? Its hard to tell since they are represented differently and gate addresses are not shown with the same prominance that they are shown in SG-1.

As a side question. Do we know if there is any reason other than matter of convenience and security that we only ever see Atlantis dial the Earth gate? I mean we can safely assume that if they wanted to Atlantis could dial any gate they wanted to in the Milky Way galaxy right?

[NecronLord]

That seems likely.

[General Zod]

As a side question. Do we know if there is any reason other than matter of convenience and security that we only ever see Atlantis dial the Earth gate? I mean we can safely assume that if they wanted to Atlantis could dial any gate they wanted to in the Milky Way galaxy right?

What reason would they have to dial any other gate when it consumes such a massive amount of power to dial across galaxies, and their supply line comes straight from Earth?