secular humanism and abortion

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-31 09:22pm

HemlockGrey wrote:This is how I differentiate between sperm and fertilized eggs:

A single sperm has an astronomical chance of becoming a child.

A fertilized egg has quite a good chance of becoming a child.

Not throwing myself into debate, I'm still formulating my posistion.

Very bad line of thought. By that sort of statistics-based reasoning, the pitiful life expectancy for young African children means that their lives aren't as valid as ours. You are trying to concoct some flimsy reasoning to support a predestined conclusion.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-31 09:27pm

Very bad line of thought. By that sort of statistics-based reasoning, the pitiful life expectancy for young African children means that their lives aren't as valid as ours.

I don't see it. A sperm has a million in one chance of becoming human, an egg has...70 percent(pulling that number out of my ass, feel free to correct) but an African child is already human, so the reasoning no longer applies.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-31 09:39pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
Very bad line of thought. By that sort of statistics-based reasoning, the pitiful life expectancy for young African children means that their lives aren't as valid as ours.
I don't see it. A sperm has a million in one chance of becoming human, an egg has...70 percent(pulling that number out of my ass, feel free to correct) but an African child is already human, so the reasoning no longer applies.

The reasoning that probability = actuality still applies; you are splitting hairs in order to save your fanciful excuse.

You are saying that an egg, despite being no more human than a sperm, should be assumed to be human because it has a good probability of eventually becoming one. Do you realize that by this reasoning, it is murder to refrain from sex on the night your wife or girlfriend is ovulating? Think about this. An ejaculation on that night would have a very good chance of becoming a baby; therefore, by your logic, it IS a baby, and by not having sex, you're murdering it.

If you truly believe in this "logic", then I expect you to run to your neerest drugstore, murder the pharmacist, and then claim justifiable homicide because she was attempting to hand out birth control pills. You DO know how they work, right?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-31 09:47pm

I thought about it. I certainly wouldn't carry it to extremes, but it has some- probably irrational- limits to it.

Essentially, I think that, if you took the time to knocked up of your own accord, it's your responsibility to go through with it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-31 09:50pm

HemlockGrey wrote:I thought about it. I certainly wouldn't carry it to extremes, but it has some- probably irrational- limits to it.

Essentially, I think that, if you took the time to knocked up of your own accord, it's your responsibility to go through with it.

Responsibility to whom? The mindless glob of cells in the womb? Suppose a woman gets pregnant by accident? Is it her responsibility? Suppose a woman gets pregnant on purpose, and finds that the discomfort, morning sickness etc. are much more horrible than she thought they'd be, and she changes her mind? Are we supposed to throw her in prison so she can't get an abortion? Strap her down and keep her under 24/7 watch? Tell her that she has a "responsibility" to ... someone, and that's what gives us the moral authority to force her to undergo 9 months of suffering? Some women handle pregnancy VERY badly; did you know that?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-31 09:52pm

Dammit, I didn't want to get into a debate.

My earlier statements were probably too hasty. I have not yet conducted a full enough assessment of both sides to actually make up my mind.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-02-01 02:48am

By a statistics line of reasoning, we could conclude that it's murder to kill a mosquito because it could possibly evolve into a sentient being. Granted, the probability is really small, but so is the probability that a sperm will contribute to the formation of a zygote.