Ranking Stargate Warships

[Bilbo]

Ok. I was doing a little thinking and trying to rate all the major ships in the Stargate warships from the shows. I have put together a list so please feel free to put input forward on changes you think should be made. Below the list I have given some explanation on why I have done some of my rankings.

Note: These are purely one on one strength ratings. No account for cost of ships. Just rating them on how they would do in one on one duels.

1. Atlantis
2. Asgard upgraded Daedalus, Phoenix, Apollo
3. Ori Mothership
4. Ancient Aurora class warship
5. O’Neil Class Warship
6. Hiveship
7. Anubis Supership
8. Apophis Supership
9. Anubis ancient tech upgraded Hatak
10. Asgard Beliskner Class
11. Puddlejumper
12. Hatak Class Ship
13. Daedalus
14. Prometheus
15. Alkesh
16. Wraith Cruiser


Okay. To start I think a fully powered (3 full ZPM) and fully loaded with drones Atlantis city ship would be the most unstoppable ship we have ever seen. We have seen that Atlantis when powered by a single partial ZPM was able to survive at least hours of bombardment by 3 Hive ships and 3 or more Wraith Cruisers. That is a level of shields we never see duplicated by anyone.

Next comes the Asgard upgraded Daedalus which easily kills what up to this point was the most powerful ships we had seen the Ori warships. This makes Ori ships third.

Next we have the older Ancient warships and the O'Neil Class Asgard ship. Its hard to place these in relation to each other. The O'Neil is the only ship that survived the first battle with an Ori ship with it appears no visible damage. To me this places it on par with the Aurora class.

Below this comes the Hive ships who have huge firepower and thick shields. If someone built one with shields they would be even scarier. But then maybe the Wraith after dealing with Ancient weapons that seem to bypass shields meant the wraith dumped shields in favor of armor and more energy to weapons.

After this it comes a little more difficult. I personally place the Anubis supership down here because it went down to half a dozen or so Hatak's while shields were reduced by being in an atmosphere. No other ship we have seen have their shields reduced by being in an atmosphere (as far as anyone has ever mentioned on-screen). Below this comes the Anubis built supership that was destroyed before launch but according to the Tok'ra would have completely altered the balance of power among the system lords.

Below this comes the Anubis enhanced Hatak, I dont place them higher because unless Anubis only upgraded a very few of his ships they cannot be too powerful or Lord Yu would have never held out against Anubis.

Finally we get to the Belisker class Asgard ship. This appears to be a very old ship design that used advanced tech to pierce Hatak shields easily but with a little bit of Ancient tech they became toast to a single upgraded Hatak.

Below this is an odd choice. The puddlejumper. With its drone weapons and cloak we see one easily destroy a lone Hatak. Since this was done with only 2 drones when they normally carry more I say its a pretty safe bet that a jumper beats a Hatak hands down.

Near the bottom we have the first Earth ships which we never see take on a Hatak and do more than survive. Railguns and nukes just dont do it against anyone. They can survive for a good while when they get the first Asgard shield upgrades but they never dish decent damage until Daedalus gets its second upgrade with straight off the design board Asgard shields and weapons and moves to number 2 on the total list.

At almost the bottom we have the Alkesh and the Wraith Cruiser. Both ar pretty weak but I give the edge to the Alkesh since its cloaking device has allowed it to damage heavier ships in the past.


Opinions?

[Crazedwraith]

How can the Asgard upgrade human vessel be better than an Actually Asgard vessel. Surely something Asgard from the ground up is going to perform better than a goa'uld mothership ripoff with Asgard tech haphazardly screwed on whenever they got the chance?

[Bilbo]

How can the Asgard upgrade human vessel be better than an Actually Asgard vessel. Surely something Asgard from the ground up is going to perform better than a goa'uld mothership ripoff with Asgard tech haphazardly screwed on whenever they got the chance?

Only because the Asgard upgraded Daedalus had items just developed by the Asgard and neer put on any Asgard ship. Remember the Daedalus once upgraded destroyed several Ori motherships. On the other hand an O'Neil class was at the first battle with the Ori and while it survived not a single Ori ship was damaged much less destroyed.

I am sure if the Asgard had stuck around they would have made an O'Neil Mark 2 with their new shields and weapons and it would have easily outpaced the Daedalus. But they didnt. They commited suicide 10 minutes after giving away their newest upgrades.

[Bilbo]

My bad. The Earth ship that got all the upgrades from the Asgard including the Asgard computer core was the Odyssey not the Daedalus.

So my list should list the Odyssey as the #2 ship on the list. As a fruther bonus the Odyssey posseses the Daniel/Merlin built cloaking device which is good enough to evade detection by Ori ships in the Ori galaxy.

So the Odyssey would be 2 and the Apollo, the alternate future Phoenix, and the Daedalus would be 2.5 on the list.

[NecronLord]

Why is the Atlantis type ranked above Auroras? Which are a dedicated warship design developed (to our knowledge) five million years later solely to fight. Sure, three ZPMs is a lot of power, but it needs at least one and a bit to even get underway. And normally requires all three to take off and manouver. You really have no evidence to suggest it can out-fight an Aurora-class.

In much the same way, there's no objective comparison between some of the others, either. Who knows what Anubis' flagship was capable of when fully powered (it was almost certainly larger, and denser, than Atlantis, in that respect, it should actually take more power to leave a planet, which we've seen that it can do) though it was implied to even be capable of destroying an entire planet. Something we've seen nowhere else aside from malfunctioning Ancient power systems.

A lot of your other pieces there are questionable too, not least the ranking of a puddle jumper above a ha'tak; yes, on one occasion it shot one down, but by that standard, African militamen with Kalashnikovs outrank Russian jets. A ha'tak certainly carries far more firepower and a better hyperdrive than a jumper.

Only because the Asgard upgraded Daedalus had items just developed by the Asgard and neer put on any Asgard ship. Remember the Daedalus once upgraded destroyed several Ori motherships. On the other hand an O'Neil class was at the first battle with the Ori and while it survived not a single Ori ship was damaged much less destroyed.

That thing was one sixty fourth the size of the other O'Neills we see in the series. It is either meant to represent the Daniel Jackson class, and they fucked up the CGI, or it's a different class.

Also, all the Earth ships still going now have the asgard upgrades.

[Ford Prefect]

though it was implied to even be capable of destroying an entire planet.

Implied? I thought it did actually blow up Abbydos, and when the team returned that one last time it was just some sort of weird illusion that Abbydosian ascended put together. I haven't seen that episode in a while now, though.

[NecronLord]

though it was implied to even be capable of destroying an entire planet.

Implied? I thought it did actually blow up Abbydos, and when the team returned that one last time it was just some sort of weird illusion that Abbydosian ascended put together. I haven't seen that episode in a while now, though.

We don't see the planet fly apart. It might have just devastated the area around the stargate.

[Bilbo]

Necron makes a fair point. Alot of the assumptions on the middle ground of the list is arbitrary. I limit the Anubis super ship because no other ship in the show is shown to lose over half its shield capability by being in an atmosphere. Since we never see this happen to shields on Ancient ships one has to figure its a weakness of Goa'uld ships and thus may be a weakness of all of their ships. Though we do not see enough in atmosphere combat to be able to tell for sure.

To me the Aurora class ranks lower than Atltantis for several reasons.

1. When the Asuran homeworld is attacked we see several destroyed. The combined fleet takes them out pretty well while only losing some hiveships and one traveller ship. This indicates that even when fully manned and charged which one can easily assume the Asuran cruisers are their shields are still pierced pretty quickly.

2. We see that 3 hiveships can destroy the Phoenix in under 3 minutes. On the other hand Atlantis with only one ZPM is able to withstand a full assault by Hive Ships for several hours. If Atlantis had been fully loaded with drones then the siege of the final episode s1 / first episode s2 would have ended the instant the Daedalus had gotten there. The shields would have easily lasted long enough for every Wraith ship to be blasted down by drones.

So it comes down to Atlantis at full capability has massively superior shields and equal firepower in drones though I would bet that Atlantis stocks more drones. Though this is merely an assumption based on ship size comparison.


As for the puddlejumper I agree I put it pretty far up there. But to me there is reason. The only time we ever see a cloaked ship spotted is in atmosphere. With this in mind a puddlejumper is always going to get a the first shot in against a Hatak. Now we saw that only two drones took one out. Assuming lucky shot its still a pretty safe bet that a fully loaded jumper firing all 6? 8? drones would easily do it. Its hard to know for certain but we have only seen drones hit hataks twice. Once by Jack against Ares where two drones kill his ship and once when Jack fires ancient outpost against Anubis fleet. Sure he fires alot more drones but we see those drones flying right through Hataks and Anubis ships multiple times and swinging around to fly through again.


A little side note: In the flashback of the Ancients destroying the Asurans we see the Aurora class ships firing beam weapons. In Inquisition the woman describes an attack that wiped out her family that sounded more like a beam weapon than a drone weapon. Yet we never see these weapons used in person. Maybe the beam weapons are only good for ground attack.

[Bilbo]

That thing was one sixty fourth the size of the other O'Neills we see in the series. It is either meant to represent the Daniel Jackson class, and they fucked up the CGI, or it's a different class.

Also, all the Earth ships still going now have the asgard upgrades.

I go with CGI error. Even if it was a Daniel Jackson they are not that much smaller than an O'Neill.

The Odyssey will still rank over other upgraded Earth ships since only it possesses the Jackson cloaking device, an item they have either chosen to not add to other ships or that they cannot for some reason. If they could add it to other Daedalus class ships they would have by now. Would be very useful for fighting in the Pegasus galaxy.

[Bilbo]

I will have to watch the episode again. Pulling up shots from Stargate Wiki the O'Neil and the Daniel Jackson do not look the same. I am fairly certain that in the episode we see an O'Neil class and they really badly messed up the CGI if there is a scaling issue.

[Bilbo]

I will have to watch the episode again. Pulling up shots from Stargate Wiki the O'Neil and the Daniel Jackson do not look the same. I am fairly certain that in the episode we see an O'Neil class and they really badly messed up the CGI if there is a scaling issue.

Did some searching. If you look at this link you see a shot showing some of the ships sent against the Ori fleet.

http://www.allempires.com/article/index ... #section_3

The Asgard ship is definitely an O'Neil class not a Daniel Jackson. Since none of the ships overlap and there is no real reference point to compare the scaling issue at least in this shot can be explained as the Asgard ship being much further back than the other ships. The Asgard more than anyone would have a decent idea that some badass ships are going to come through that Supergate and the Asgard commander may have been hedging his bets against getting destroyed.

[NecronLord]

1. When the Asuran homeworld is attacked we see several destroyed. The combined fleet takes them out pretty well while only losing some hiveships and one traveller ship. This indicates that even when fully manned and charged which one can easily assume the Asuran cruisers are their shields are still pierced pretty quickly.

What makes you think they’re fully equipped, manned and charged. They just came back from a campaign, and may as well be in dock.

2. We see that 3 hiveships can destroy the Phoenix in under 3 minutes. On the other hand Atlantis with only one ZPM is able to withstand a full assault by Hive Ships for several hours. If Atlantis had been fully loaded with drones then the siege of the final episode s1 / first episode s2 would have ended the instant the Daedalus had gotten there. The shields would have easily lasted long enough for every Wraith ship to be blasted down by drones.

They fire on it as it drops out of hyperspace. Even replicator ships (bug replicator) arguably the most advanced in many areas that we’ve seen, cannot raise shields immediately upon dropping out of hyperspace. Why assume the Phoenix could?

So it comes down to Atlantis at full capability has massively superior shields

Perhaps.

and equal firepower in drones though I would bet that Atlantis stocks more drones

Why? Dedicated warship, vs thing that people live in.

As for the puddlejumper I agree I put it pretty far up there. But to me there is reason. The only time we ever see a cloaked ship spotted is in atmosphere.

Not true. Anubis was able to detect cloaked tel’taks in space after downloading Thor’s knowledge. Indeed, even his gliders were able to engage such ships.

With this in mind a puddlejumper is always going to get a the first shot in against a Hatak. Now we saw that only two drones took one out. Assuming lucky shot its still a pretty safe bet that a fully loaded jumper firing all 6? 8? drones would easily do it.

Again, you don’t know that. You’re guessing

Its hard to know for certain but we have only seen drones hit hataks twice. Once by Jack against Ares where two drones kill his ship and once when Jack fires ancient outpost against Anubis fleet. Sure he fires alot more drones but we see those drones flying right through Hataks and Anubis ships multiple times and swinging around to fly through again.

We also see the ships not just exploding on the first hit, like Ares’ did.

A little side note: In the flashback of the Ancients destroying the Asurans we see the Aurora class ships firing beam weapons.

No we don’t.

In Inquisition the woman describes an attack that wiped out her family that sounded more like a beam weapon than a drone weapon. Yet we never see these weapons used in person. Maybe the beam weapons are only good for ground attack.

We see two beam weapons used by the Ancients/Asurans. One on the LaGrange defense satellite, and one from the gate-satellite. Both are capable of engaging starships.

[Bilbo]

I am not going by what is the most effective warship pound for pound. With that in mind Atlantis based on its sheer size would drop on the list. With how big she is you could build multiple Aurora class. I was rating purely on how the ships would rate in overall power if we did a series of one on one duels.

With that in mind nothing we have seen shows that anything could beat a fully powered and armed Atlantis city ship.


The Deathglider you are referring to is when Osiris sent Death Gliders after SG-1's cloaked ship right? Didnt she order them to scan for atmospheric interference and that is how they found the cloaked cargo ship? Was there another point where Anubis detects a cloaked ship?

As for the puddle jumper you are right. There is the chance that Jack made a one in a million shot or that the Hatak of Ares was heavily damaged from his losing to Anubis and it was more vulnerable. Only points against that are the lack of visible damage and neither Jack or Sam saying anything about any apparant damage.

[NecronLord]

I am not going by what is the most effective warship pound for pound. With that in mind Atlantis based on its sheer size would drop on the list. With how big she is you could build multiple Aurora class. I was rating purely on how the ships would rate in overall power if we did a series of one on one duels.

Look. In simplest terms, there is no way of knowing how many drones a city ship or an Aurora carries, and how many they can deploy over any given time.

With that in mind nothing we have seen shows that anything could beat a fully powered and armed Atlantis city ship.

Because you're unwilling to admit that you're actually making a lot of this up.

The Deathglider you are referring to is when Osiris sent Death Gliders after SG-1's cloaked ship right?

No. After that. Redemption part one. It happily closes in on a cloaked tel'tak in open space and opens fire, instantly disabling its cloak.

[Bilbo]

I am not going by what is the most effective warship pound for pound. With that in mind Atlantis based on its sheer size would drop on the list. With how big she is you could build multiple Aurora class. I was rating purely on how the ships would rate in overall power if we did a series of one on one duels.

Look. In simplest terms, there is no way of knowing how many drones a city ship or an Aurora carries, and how many they can deploy over any given time.

With that in mind nothing we have seen shows that anything could beat a fully powered and armed Atlantis city ship.

Because you're unwilling to admit that you're actually making a lot of this up.

What am I making up? We know from Rodney that when the Wraith fleet opened fire the single ZPM was enough to keep the shield up for hours. On the other hand we see Asuran controlled Aurora ships destroyed in the final battle and we hear about but dont see them destroyed by the Wraith when the two go back to war.

So defensive wise the Atlantis city-ship wins out defensively over an Aurora warship. Both ships use the same weapons in ancient drones. Equal weapons but one side with superior defense would suggest which way the battle would go.

The only other evidence available:

1. Somehow the Asurans got onto Atlantis to slaughter all the Ancients in the one episode when they took Atlantis from the Expedition. We dont know if they beat their way in or some other method. We do know that Atlantis had only one ZPM and at that point was out of drones.

2. The Wraith did not approach Atlantis when they seiged the place till after they sent enough waves of drones to know the last of the drones were used up. At least one wave of darts attacked after Sheppard used the last of the drones on the previous wave of drones. Pretty good chance that this was the Wraiths plan all along to make it safe to approach with their hiveships.


So it does come down to a degree to a gutshot which I said from the beginning was what alot of this list was. What changes would you make? To me the Aurora Cruisers are nice but not nearly as tough as they are made out to be. Hell several are destroyed in the final battle over the Asuran homeworld with the loss of only a few hives and one Traveller Ship. Though this might be the Asuran hate program in effect causing them to focus on the Hives more than anyone else in that battle.

But really, not trying to argue. How would you order the list?

[NecronLord]

What am I making up? We know from Rodney that when the Wraith fleet opened fire the single ZPM was enough to keep the shield up for hours. On the other hand we see Asuran controlled Aurora ships destroyed in the final battle and we hear about but dont see them destroyed by the Wraith when the two go back to war.

We have no idea which Asuran ships were destroyed by the Wraith. They don't just have Auroras, you know. They have a cruiser class (cloakable) and a frigate positively diminutive frigate class. The only time we can really make serious statements about their performance is the battle of Asuras, and that's a veritable bag of flies.

So defensive wise the Atlantis city-ship wins out defensively over an Aurora warship. Both ships use the same weapons in ancient drones. Equal weapons but one side with superior defense would suggest which way the battle would go.

The only other evidence available:

1. Somehow the Asurans got onto Atlantis to slaughter all the Ancients in the one episode when they took Atlantis from the Expedition. We dont know if they beat their way in or some other method. We do know that Atlantis had only one ZPM and at that point was out of drones.

Why was it out of drones? Are you suggesting the Tau'ri took them all with them? They recieved a sizeable new shipment of drones in The Tower and didn't use them on screen before The Return.

2. The Wraith did not approach Atlantis when they seiged the place till after they sent enough waves of drones to know the last of the drones were used up. At least one wave of darts attacked after Sheppard used the last of the drones on the previous wave of drones. Pretty good chance that this was the Wraiths plan all along to make it safe to approach with their hiveships.

And? So? Therefore?

So it does come down to a degree to a gutshot which I said from the beginning was what alot of this list was. What changes would you make? To me the Aurora Cruisers are nice but not nearly as tough as they are made out to be. Hell several are destroyed in the final battle over the Asuran homeworld with the loss of only a few hives and one Traveller Ship. Though this might be the Asuran hate program in effect causing them to focus on the Hives more than anyone else in that battle.

But really, not trying to argue. How would you order the list?

I wouldn't. We can't make some kind of comprehensive, all consuming list of badassery like a top ten music chart.

[J Ryan]

In regards to Atlantis' fighting ability am I the only one that sees the difference between sitting immobile on the ground and flying in space?

In the episodes where Atlantis is shot at by the Hive ships, it is sat on an ocean of water. It should surely be able to devote all of it's energy to keeping the shield up, as well as focusing all the shield in one direction (up). Also the large body of water would act as a huge heat sink something lacking in space. Atlantis makes a good fortress but I don't think you can equate that to the fighting ability as a front line vessel, where it will be expected to run engines, life support, gravity, drones etc.

[Bilbo]

In regards to Atlantis' fighting ability am I the only one that sees the difference between sitting immobile on the ground and flying in space?

In the episodes where Atlantis is shot at by the Hive ships, it is sat on an ocean of water. It should surely be able to devote all of it's energy to keeping the shield up, as well as focusing all the shield in one direction (up). Also the large body of water would act as a huge heat sink something lacking in space. Atlantis makes a good fortress but I don't think you can equate that to the fighting ability as a front line vessel, where it will be expected to run engines, life support, gravity, drones etc.

The shield holds in atmosphere. Also they were able to absorb shots for hours on one ZPM. With one ZPM they took off and entered hyperspace though they didnt get to jump as far as they wanted. That though I believe was more of an issue with sending alternate Rodney back to his own dimension nearly draining the entire ZPM. Since that episode pretty well stated it drained the ZPM to nearly nothing it suggests that barring this event the single ZPM would have powered the ship, the shields, and taken them into hyperspace to their new home.

Now add two more ZPM's to the mix.

One on one considering the strength of the Atlantis shield I do not see anyone beating it in a fight. I wouldnt suggest using it as Stargates Super Star Destroyer but if you had her loaded for bear and fully powered she could destroy any single target we have seen so far that she chose to engage.

[Ghost Rider]

So when are we getting numbers or do I just lock it now?

[Stargate Nerd]

In much the same way, there's no objective comparison between some of the others, either. Who knows what Anubis' flagship was capable of when fully powered (it was almost certainly larger, and denser, than Atlantis, in that respect, it should actually take more power to leave a planet, which we've seen that it can do)

Not to mention the Wraith Hive Ships which enter and leave atmosphere and even land without any difficulties that we know of, and yet the Wraith seem to lack a power source equivalent to the ZPM as seen by their quest to retrieve one after the battle at Asuras.
Stargate is really messed up.

[Nephtys]

Those Asuran ships make no damned sense at all. They're clearly Aurora-type ships, sure. But what the hell does that mean?

The beaten-up, Jury-rigged Orion fired off one salvo of drones that gutted and killed a hiveship. This was a jury rigged derelict, that had to basically drain all of it's power to do so.

The dozens of fully functional, new construction Auroras, crewed by expert machines.... sat around like beached whales, firing ineffective orange bullets (Not drones) at the rag-tag fleet that attacked the planet, and got their asses kicked by Daedalus and Apollo.

This really doesn't compute. What the Asurans did is equivilent of having your fleet of battleships engaged by a swarm of crappier, smaller, worse vessels (with possibly two exceptions), and the Admiral ordering all gunnery crews on deck to fight the enemy ships off with rifles. Blowing up one single refugee transport with guns is not a sign of competence, especially for a civilization that can build FTL Deep Space sensors that can cover half a galaxy.

[NecronLord]

Those Asuran ships make no damned sense at all. They're clearly Aurora-type ships, sure. But what the hell does that mean?

The beaten-up, Jury-rigged Orion fired off one salvo of drones that gutted and killed a hiveship. This was a jury rigged derelict, that had to basically drain all of it's power to do so.

The dozens of fully functional, new construction Auroras, crewed by expert machines.... sat around like beached whales, firing ineffective orange bullets (Not drones) at the rag-tag fleet that attacked the planet, and got their asses kicked by Daedalus and Apollo.

At least one of them does actually fire drones at a hive ship and destroy it in the background of the battle; presumably they were running low on drones having been out crushing wraith for weeks.

But yes. It's a cheap ass handwaving to write out unpopular villains. It's best not to think about it too hard.

[NecronLord]

Not to mention the Wraith Hive Ships which enter and leave atmosphere and even land without any difficulties that we know of, and yet the Wraith seem to lack a power source equivalent to the ZPM as seen by their quest to retrieve one after the battle at Asuras.
Stargate is really messed up.

They're also made of glorified meat. We don't know how dense they are.

On the other hand, we definately know that the goa'uld ships are dense enough to sink; see Descent, while a city ship isn't denser than water (They not only float, but rise to the surface of an ocean when placed at its bottom).

[Bilbo]

Those Asuran ships make no damned sense at all. They're clearly Aurora-type ships, sure. But what the hell does that mean?

The beaten-up, Jury-rigged Orion fired off one salvo of drones that gutted and killed a hiveship. This was a jury rigged derelict, that had to basically drain all of it's power to do so.

The dozens of fully functional, new construction Auroras, crewed by expert machines.... sat around like beached whales, firing ineffective orange bullets (Not drones) at the rag-tag fleet that attacked the planet, and got their asses kicked by Daedalus and Apollo.

At least one of them does actually fire drones at a hive ship and destroy it in the background of the battle; presumably they were running low on drones having been out crushing wraith for weeks.

But yes. It's a cheap ass handwaving to write out unpopular villains. It's best not to think about it too hard.

The only thing I can think of is that the Ancients are kind of like the Federation. They are so in love with their incredible shield tech that their ships have no armor to protect when shields are down. This would only matter though if they had their ships sitting in orbit with shields down and the fleet did quite a bit of damage before most Asuran ships could raise their shields.

Another possibility is the Asurans had modified their ships to be superior in orbittal bombardment and this reduced how effective they were in combat but this would make little sense since they should have still expected to run into Wraith who might start defending their food source.

So basically the writers want us to forget how decent the Ancients warships are or the Asurans were not building full Aurora but instead built quick cheap versions to start their war.

[Nephtys]

Shields in Stargate seem to just work that way. They are your main and probably only line of defense. When Daedalus had to drop her shields for a few seconds to beam up Ronan and Shepard from the ruins of Michael's lab, they got pretty messed up from those cruiser shots. Afterwards, when their shields went back up, they could withstand fire for an indefinite amount of time.

With such a disparity between the protective power of shields and physical protection, why NOT just cram more shields into your ship? Which explains the entire idea behind the Drones. They seem to penetrate most shields without a care in the world, despite having puny warheads. Same with the Asgard weaponry shown to defeat the Goa'uld, until Anubis found a way to block them.