T:SCC Season 2x07: "Brothers of Nablus" (spoilers)

[Thanas]

^Maybe Skynet runs out of infiltrator models? Remember that time travel is the last resort of Skynet. However, I have always attributed pretzelator's loss to being an inferior model, so that idea is nothing new.

[Shroom Man 777]

Maybe it's because Skynet no longer has the coltans.

But, fuck, this latest showing means Cromartie is frickin' dangerous. We've never seen a Terminator off another Terminator with that kind of ease, to the point of using a clenched fist to chestburst the other robot's power cell. Cromartie must've had a montage to train himself against Cromartie versus Cameron Round 2 - the Return of the Revenge.

I find it odd that the star Terminators all have names beginning with C. Cameron, Cromartie, Catherine... Weaver.

[Feil]

But, fuck, this latest showing means Cromartie is frickin' dangerous. We've never seen a Terminator off another Terminator with that kind of ease, to the point of using a clenched fist to chestburst the other robot's power cell.

It was idiotic. If a terminator can use a bit of metal and his fist to rip out another terminator's interior bits, any high-caliber rifle, machine gun, or a slug shotgun should be able to disable a terminator with similar ease.

Meanwhile, yet another Terminator of the Week. 2.

[Shroom Man 777]

Fake Greenway, Fifty-Caliber Face, Pretzel, and now the Bionic Black Man. That's actually four Terminators.

[Anguirus]

But, fuck, this latest showing means Cromartie is frickin' dangerous. We've never seen a Terminator off another Terminator with that kind of ease, to the point of using a clenched fist to chestburst the other robot's power cell. Cromartie must've had a montage to train himself against Cromartie versus Cameron Round 2 - the Return of the Revenge.

My pet theory is that Terminators who survive combat with other Terminators get much better at fighting them.

T2: Arnold and T1000 fought really awkwardly at first, then in their subsequent fight were really going all out on each other and using their full strength and capabilities.

TCC Pilot: Cameron and Cromartie tangle with each other, pretty much an even fight that Cameron wriggles out of by luck.

Last season Cameron beat Vick (with help) and tied Carter.

This season Cameron and Cromartie have both scored one-sided wins against other Terminators, despite the fact that Cameron still needed help against Fake Greenway.

So it's not a perfect theory, but hey, it's something.

[SylasGaunt]

Does he really count as a terminator of the week when he gets ganked in the first few minutes? More of a cameo really..

[Crazedwraith]

Does he really count as a terminator of the week when he gets ganked in the first few minutes? More of a cameo really..

More like the first few seconds. That pissed me off. Its even worse than a terminator of a week. There better be a bigger payoff on the Ellison Terminator than just this episode.

[Anguirus]

^ In my opinion, Cromartie deciding he's smarter than Skynet is a huge payoff, which really adds to his character. Weaver also went to a fair amount of effort to get Ellison off the hook, which is interesting. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if fallout from his incarceration continues to affect things...he really seems like he's gone through the wringer at the end of the ep.

[NecronLord]

Cromartie punching his hand through another terminator's chest was ridiculous. To the point that I can't help but wonder if it wasn't some elaborate ruse, with the Ellison-terminator faking death.

John Connor's back to whiny stupid bitch. Seriously now. "We have to leave, Cromartie was here" is what he should have said...

[charlemagne]

"We have to leave, Cromartie was here" is what he should have said...

Well, he also said "He won't be back, it's not how he works" - but yeah, Cromartie doesn't exactly seem to work like other Terminators...

[Crazedwraith]

Even if John doesn't think Cromartie won't return to their house, its still retard of him not tell everyone else he's search the immediate vicinity for them. They could still randomly run into him on the street or a shop or anything really.

[Thanas]

^Heck, if John doesn't want to tell his mother due to his issues with her, he can always tell Cameron. It is not like they haven't hidden things from Sarah before.

[Peptuck]

^Heck, if John doesn't want to tell his mother due to his issues with her, he can always tell Cameron. It is not like they haven't hidden things from Sarah before.

I get the impression that might be exactly what happens in the next episode.

[Tsyroc]

I really liked this episode. Lots of action and tension. Even if several of the characters acted stupidly.


As for the Ellison terminator, who says it was from Skynet? If the Resistance can send reprogrammed terminators back to protect people they could also send them back to whack people. Maybe by helping Weaver, Ellison is helping Skynet and the Resistance found out about it so they sent whatever spare terminator model they had around back in time to take out Ellison.

Ellison inadvertently helping Skynet would also explain how they were able to dupe him as a skin job terminator. Skynet could have had excellent records about how he looked (just like it had records of Sgt Arnold in T3) in order to make the flesh coating.

On the other hand, if the Resistance is sending terminators back solely to kill Ellison then why would they go to the trouble of sending one that looks like him? Sending one that looks like him seems unnecessary unless it was intended to take his place or at least frame him someway.

There's definitely some weird ass shit going on. I wouldn't be surprised if there are multiple factions of A.I.s and maybe even future humans all with different agendas.

In the extended version of T2 they open up Uncle Bob's head to reset a switch on his chip which allows his CPU more learning capacity and flexibility. It was stated that sort of thing was done to equipment that would be out of contact with Skynet from veering off mission and away from its original programing. I'm thinking it is possible Skynet found out about this sort of issue the hard way and did not anticipate it being a problem so there could quite likely be A.I.s out there that are not on Skynet's side. They may still be against the humans too.

We really don't have enough information to be certain who is behind the terminator attack on Ellison. Maybe it's Skynet? Maybe it's the Resistance? Maybe it's future Weaver who sent it to test Ellison (a bit more of a stretch)? Any which way it goes this show is certainly entertaining.

I also don't trust Derek's girlfriend. Hopefully she'll prove the doubters wrong and not get killed doing it but right now I don't trust her much at all.

[Imperial Overlord]

I really didn't like the Ellison Terminator of the week for reasons which have already been posted and discussed. On top of that, it wasn't necessary. Weaver extracts Ellison from prison so the legal problems are solved. A shot of Cromartie following Ellison would remind us all that Cromartie is still in the game. It was pointless and served only to degrade the Terminators from nearly unstoppable killing machines to easily dispatched robosoldiers.

[Anguirus]

Easily dispatched...by another robosoldier that had complete surprise. Am I crazy for not minding this? If Cameron flips out and starts taking down enemy Terminators in twos and threes then I'll probably be annoyed.

[Crazedwraith]

Does surprise make it easier to punch a hole through a hyperalloy combat chasis? I didn't know.

[Feil]

Easily dispatched...by another robosoldier that had complete surprise. Am I crazy for not minding this?

Yes, you are. Fighting a terminator with a piece of metal should be equivalent to trying to kill a human with a wiffle bat. A terminator fighting a terminator with a piece of metal should just be equivalent to a really strong, resilient guy trying to kill a human with a wiffle bat.

[Lancer]

Now that Skynet no longer has access to Coltan, which was part of the alloy used to create the T-888's. It likely now has to resort to inferior T-800 series models, explaining why Cameron and Cromartie are able to so easily deal with the recent batch of Terminators when compared to Vick and Carter. When Cameron was fighting the Victoria (the female Terminator in The Tower is Tall), Cameron outpowered her fairly easily and twisted her into a pretzel, as opposed to the prolonged fights she had with Cromartie, Vick and Carter.

[Anguirus]

Does surprise make it easier to punch a hole through a hyperalloy combat chasis? I didn't know.

A cursory examination of a Terminator shows that they are not completely covered in teh ubermetal armor. In addition, this is not the first time than an 800 series has been impaled by another Terminator employing a metal rod.

So if a Terminator is not fighting back or aware of another's presence, a surgical strike on the power source is the way to go.

It's not my fault that you guys think Terminators are some massive, arbitrary level of durable just because they don't drop to the ground and bleed to death like a human does when hit by a few bullets. Terminators have been seriously damaged or destroyed by car crashes, industrial equipment, and heavy-caliber rifles, and you think another Terminator should need to wail on one for two minutes to take it out, despite the fact that they have incredible strength for their size?

[Imperial Overlord]

Does surprise make it easier to punch a hole through a hyperalloy combat chasis? I didn't know.

A cursory examination of a Terminator shows that they are not completely covered in teh ubermetal armor. In addition, this is not the first time than an 800 series has been impaled by another Terminator employing a metal rod.

You mean the time the extensively damaged Terminator was impaled with a larger metal rod by an even stronger T-1000 that produced flashy lightning special effects when it impaled Arnie and he was only temporarily incapacitated? Yeah, that's our problem in a nutshell.

[NecronLord]

Now that Skynet no longer has access to Coltan

Holy unjustified assumption Batman!

Just because it lost one source doesn't mean it has no others.

[Anguirus]

LOL, it's funny cause context doesn't matter.

-The "extensively damaged" T-800 hadn't taken ANY damage to the section that you are so fixated on, the back, before T-1000 started hitting him with the rod. I suppose the blows from the metal beam might have weakened him a bit, but they certainly did little else to his structural integrity considering that he's standing around no problem at the end of the film.

-There is no evidence that a T-1000 is any stronger than a T-800 or T-888.

-The T-800 was impaled through the power cell, rather than it being removed intact. Hence the different VFX.

-He was temporarily incapacitated only because heat sinks allowed him to build up power (IIRC this comes from James Cameron). Thus, Cromartie should be fine if he doesn't take Fake Ellison to a steel mill.

[Imperial Overlord]

LOL, it's funny cause context doesn't matter.

-The "extensively damaged" T-800 hadn't taken ANY damage to the section that you are so fixated on, the back, before T-1000 started hitting him with the rod. I suppose the blows from the metal beam might have weakened him a bit, but they certainly did little else to his structural integrity considering that he's standing around no problem at the end of the film.

He had been beat to hell and back, quite possibly damaging some or (many) internal components. That he can stand at the end of the film doesn't mean he hasn't suffered extensive internal damage.

-There is no evidence that a T-1000 is any stronger than a T-800 or T-888.

Go watch the movie again. He's clearly stronger than the T-800, although not so much that T-800 can't put up a good fight.

-The T-800 was impaled through the power cell, rather than it being removed intact. Hence the different VFX.

Which requires a much more damage to the chassis to make a hole big enough fit Cromartie's fist in there instead of a hole the diameter metal rod.

-He was temporarily incapacitated only because heat sinks allowed him to build up power (IIRC this comes from James Cameron). Thus, Cromartie should be fine if he doesn't take Fake Ellison to a steel mill.

That's assuming the only way a much less battered and abused model can manage to get any reserve power is through heat sinks.

[Lancer]

Now that Skynet no longer has access to Coltan

Holy unjustified assumption Batman!

Just because it lost one source doesn't mean it has no others.

Conceeded. However, dialogue from the episode in question (Heavy Metal) implies that supplies of coltan are difficult to come by ("Coltan is rare in the future. Much of it was destroyed when the bombs went off..."), and later episodes indicate that Skynet is strapped for resources in general.

Losing a major stockpile of coltan to make hyperalloy with and making use of a substitute would explain why the recent batch of Terminators have been observed to be physically inferior to Cameron and the early T-888's (Cromartie, Carter, and Vick). Cameron fought Cromartie and Carter to a draw but was unable to overcome either, and was able to get the upper hand against Vick because he stopped fighting her in order to shoot Derrick. In contrast, Cameron is able to overpower Victoria (the female Terminator from The Tower is Tall) and deform her endoskeleton, and Cromartie breached robot-Ellison's endoskeleton with ease.