Uh, why do we need the UN's approval again?

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Post by MKSheppard »

Darth Wong wrote: I'm talking about their behaviour in general for decades now.
The same behavior that made us "recklessly" deploy MRBMs armed
with nuclear warheads on European Soil in the mid 80s? The
same behavior that caused the USSR and USA to eventually dismantle
the entire FUCKING CLASS OF MRBMs as a result?
Hence the need for UN approval; they know, and everyone else knows that they're basically the Roman Empire. But nobody wants to come out and say it, so they pretend to humour the rest of the world by seeking approval which they don't really give a shit about.
Funny, if we were really the Roman Empire reborn, the American Eagle
would be spreading it's wings from the frozen north of Canada to the
baking heat of Mexico as Canadian customs and Mexican customs are
ruthlessly stamped out by american colonial policies in american run
schools after our successful invasion and occupation of both countries...

Gee, that hasn't happened! :shock: So I guess we're not the Roman
Empire Mk II!
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Post by Shinova »

I guess you all know that Germany and France are against the war against Iraq.

I heard from another board that France is doing this cause they have an oil contract and that Germany has some chemical weapons thing with Iraq.



Yep. :roll: Money makes the world go around...and around...and around....
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Post by phongn »

I'd say the US is an Empire, though an economic one rather than the type of the Romans or Victorian Britain.

Hanson wrote an interesting article on this topic last year...
It is popular now to talk of the American "empire." In Europe particularly there are comparisons of Mr. Bush to Caesar — and worse — and invocations all sorts of pretentious poli-sci jargon like "hegemon," "imperium," and "subject states," along with neologisms like "hyperpower" and "overdogs." But if we really are imperial, we rule over a very funny sort of empire.

We do not send out proconsuls to reside over client states, which in turn impose taxes on coerced subjects to pay for the legions. Instead, American bases are predicated on contractual obligations — costly to us and profitable to their hosts. We do not see any profits in Korea, but instead accept the risk of losing almost 40,000 of our youth to ensure that Kias can flood our shores and that shaggy students can protest outside our embassy in Seoul.

Athenians, Romans, Ottomans, and the British wanted land and treasure and grabbed all they could get when they could. The United States hasn't annexed anyone's soil since the Spanish-American War — a checkered period in American history that still makes us, not them, out as villains in our own history books. Most Americans are far more interested in carving up the Nevada desert for monster homes than in getting their hands on Karachi or the Amazon basin. Puerto Ricans are free to vote themselves independence anytime they wish.

Imperial powers order and subjects obey. But in our case, we offer the Turks strategic guarantees, political support — and money — for their allegiance. France and Russia go along in the U.N. — but only after we ensure them the traffic of oil and security for outstanding accounts. Pakistan gets debt relief that ruined dot-coms could only dream of; Jordan reels in more aid than our own bankrupt municipalities.

If acrimony and invective arise, it's usually one-way: the Europeans, the Arabs, and the South Americans all say worse things about us than we do about them, not privately and in hurt, but publicly and proudly. Boasting that you hate Americans — or calling our supposed imperator "moron" or "Hitler" — won't get you censured by our Senate or earn a tongue-lashing from our president, but is more likely to get you ten minutes on CNN. We are considered haughty by Berlin not because we send a Germanicus with four legions across the Rhine, but because Mr. Bush snubs Mr. Schroeder by not phoning him as frequently as the German press would like.

Empires usually have contenders that check their power and through rivalry drive their ambitions. Athens worried about Sparta and Persia. Rome found its limits when it butted up against Germany and Parthia. The Ottomans never could bully too well the Venetians or the Spanish. Britain worried about France and Spain at sea and the Germanic peoples by land. In contrast, the restraint on American power is not China, Russia, or the European Union, but rather the American electorate itself — whose reluctant worries are chronicled weekly by polls that are eyed with fear by our politicians. We, not them, stop us from becoming what we could.

The Athenian ekklesia, the Roman senate, and the British Parliament alike were eager for empire and reflected the energy of their people. In contrast, America went to war late and reluctantly in World Wars I and II, and never finished the job in either Korea or Vietnam. We were likely to sigh in relief when we were kicked out of the Philippines, and really have no desire to return. Should the Greeks tell us to leave Crete — promises, promises — we would be more likely to count the money saved than the influence lost. Take away all our troops from Germany and polls would show relief, not anger, among Americans. Isolationism, parochialism, and self-absorption are far stronger in the American character than desire for overseas adventurism. Our critics may slur us for "overreaching," but our elites in the military and government worry that they have to coax a reluctant populace, not constrain a blood-drunk rabble.

The desire of a young Roman quaestor or the British Victorians was to go abroad, shine in battle, and come home laden with spoils. They wanted to be feared, not liked. American suburbanites, inner-city residents, and rural townspeople all will fret because a French opportunist or a Saudi autocrat says that we are acting inappropriately. Roman imperialists had names like Magnus and Africanus; the British anointed their returning proconsuls as Rangers, Masters, Governors, Grandees, Sirs, and Lords. In contrast, retired American diplomats, CIA operatives, or generals are lucky if they can melt away in anonymity to the Virginia suburbs without a subpoena, media exposé, or lawsuit. Proconsuls were given entire provinces; our ex-president Carter from his peace center advises us to disarm.

Most empires chafe at the cost of their rule and complain that the expense is near-suicidal. Athens raised the Aegean tribute often, and found itself nearly broke after only the fifth year of the Peloponnesian War. The story of the Roman Empire is one of shrinking legions, a debased currency, and a chronically bankrupt imperial treasury. Even before World War I, the Raj had drained England. In contrast, America spends less of its GNP on defense than it did during the last five decades. And most of our military outlays go to training, salaries, and retirements — moneys that support, educate, and help people rather than simply stockpile weapons and hone killers. The eerie thing is not that we have 13 massive $5 billion carriers, but that we could easily produce and maintain 20 more.

Empires create a culture of pride and pomp, and foster a rhetoric of superiority. Pericles, Virgil, and Kipling all talked and wrote of the grandeur of imperial domain. How odd then that what America's literary pantheon — Norman Mailer, Gore Vidal, Susan Sontag, and Alice Walker — said about 9/11 would either nauseate or bewilder most Americans.

Pericles could showcase his Parthenon from the tribute of empire; Rome wanted the prestige of Pax Romana and Mare Nostrum; the Sultan thought Europe should submit to Allah; and the Queen could boast that the sun never set on British shores. Our imperial aims? We are happy enough if the Japanese can get their oil from Libya safely and their Toyotas to Los Angeles without fear; or if China can be coaxed into sending us more cheap Reeboks and in turn fewer pirated CDs.

Our bases dot the globe to keep the sea-lanes open, thugs and murderers under wraps, and terrorists away from European, Japanese, and American globalists who profit mightily by blanketing the world with everything from antibiotics and contact lenses to BMWs and Jennifer Lopez — in other words, to keep the world safe and prosperous enough for Michael Moore to rant on spec, for Noam Chomsky to garner a lot of money and tenure from a defense-contracting MIT, for Barbra Streisand to make millions, for Edward Said's endowed chair to withstand Wall Street downturns, for Jesse Jackson to take off safely on his jet-powered, tax-free junkets.

Why then does the world hate a country that uses it power to keep the peace rather than rule? Resentment, jealousy, and envy of the proud and powerful are often cited as the very human and age-old motives that prompt states irrationally to slur and libel — just as people do against their betters. No doubt Thucydides would agree. But there are other more subtle factors involved that explain the peculiar present angst against America — and why the French or Germans say worse things about free Americans who saved them than they did about Soviets who wanted to kill them.

Observers like to see an empire suffer and pay a price for its influence. That way they think imperial sway is at least earned. Athenians died all over the Mediterranean, from Egypt to Sicily; their annual burial ceremony was the occasion for the best of Hellenic panegyric. The list of British disasters from the Crimea and Afghanistan to Zululand and Khartoum was the stuff of Victorian poetry. But since Vietnam Americans have done pretty much what they wanted to in the Gulf, Panama, Haiti, Grenada, Serbia, and Afghanistan, with less than an aggregate of 200 lost to enemy fire — a combat imbalance never seen in the annals of warfare. So not only can Americans defeat their adversaries, but they don't even die doing it. Shouldn't — our critics insist — we at least have some body bags?

Intervention is supposed to be synonymous with exploitation; thus the Athenians killed, enslaved, exacted, and robbed on Samos and Melos. No one thought Rome was going into Numidia or Gaul — one million killed, another million enslaved — to implant local democracy. Nor did the British decide that at last 17th-century India needed indigenous elections. But Americans have overthrown Noriega, Milosevic, and Mullah Omar and are about to rid Iraq of Saddam Hussein, to put in their places elected leaders, not legates or local client kings. Instead of the much-rumored "pipeline" that we supposedly coveted in Afghanistan, we are paying tens of millions to build a road and bridges so that Afghan truckers and traders won't break their axles.

In that regard, America is also a revolutionary, rather than a stuffy imperial society. Its crass culture abroad — rap music, Big Macs, Star Wars, Pepsi, and Beverly Hillbillies reruns — does not reflect the tastes and values of either an Oxbridge elite or a landed Roman aristocracy. That explains why Le Monde or a Spanish deputy minister may libel us, even as millions of semi-literate Mexicans, unfree Arabs, and oppressed southeast Asians are dying to get here. It is one thing to mobilize against grasping, wealthy white people who want your copper, bananas, or rubber — quite another when your own youth want what black, brown, yellow, and white middle-class Americans alike have to offer. We so-called imperialists don't wear pith helmets, but rather baggy jeans and backwards baseball caps. Thus far the rest of the globe — whether Islamic fundamentalists, European socialists, or Chinese Communists — has not yet formulated an ideology antithetical to the kinetic American strain of Western culture.

Much, then, of what we read about the evil of American imperialism is written by post-heroic and bored elites, intellectuals, and coffeehouse hacks, whose freedom and security are a given, but whose rarified tastes are apparently unshared and endangered. In contrast, the poorer want freedom and material things first — and cynicism, skepticism, irony, and nihilism second. So we should not listen to what a few say, but rather look at what many do.

Critiques of the United States based on class, race, nationality, or taste have all failed to explicate, much less stop, the American cultural juggernaut. Forecasts of bankrupting defense expenditures and imperial overstretch are the stuff of the faculty lounge. Neither Freud nor Marx is of much help. And real knowledge of past empires that might allow judicious analogies is beyond the grasp of popular pundits.

Add that all up, and our exasperated critics are left with the same old empty jargon of legions and gunboats.
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Post by Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi »

Shinova wrote:I guess you all know that Germany and France are against the war against Iraq.

I heard from another board that France is doing this cause they have an oil contract and that Germany has some chemical weapons thing with Iraq.



Yep. :roll: Money makes the world go around...and around...and around....
And they say money's motvating America for it's actions. How is what they are doing any better?

Anyway, I say America should seek UN approval just so it doesn't look arrogant, and people objecting to America's actions don't bring it up.
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Post by Shadow WarChief »

Speaking of that ANSWER group that was mentioned earlier, a sheet from that group has been circulated around my school titled "responses to Bush's myths about Iraq"

When on of them said

Myth: The United States intends to liberat the Iraqi people

Reason: *paraphrase* The post-war plan is identical to that of Japan after the second world war, with a military governor in place. Therefore, the united states is only going to in to regain some oil power they lost after during the recent decades of PROGRESS (emphasis mine) in Iraq



My response to their response:


Yes I agree completely. That's why our vassal states of Japan and Germany are now begging for food on the streets and their economies are shot to hell. This is why we've just tested a 150 Megaton nuclear war head on the metropolis of Tokyo.....

Oh wait, that didn't happen. In fact Japan is one of the World's major ecenomic super powers that makes every other country in asia look like a stinking shit hole. Same plan for Iraq as in Japan? Considering how good Japan is, you've just shot yourself in the foot.
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Post by The Dark »

Oberleutnant wrote:
The Dark wrote:Right...funding...because the USA doesn't already provide 27.3% of the UN's peacekeeping bill, and 22% of their total budget, and they bitch that we don't pay more :roll:
Isn't the UN complaining about the unpaid debt?
We've already arranged a plan with the United Nations to pay off that debt (Helms-Biden legislation). It should (assuming Congress can get their collective head out of their ass) be paid off by the end of this year. I suppose my big issue with the UN is the rampant anti-Americanism, when nearly a quarter of the general budget is provided by America. The "bitching" I referred to was more specifically when they complained that the United States violated treaties when Congress passed a bill limiting us to paying 25% of the peacekeeping bill.

Ah, just found the terms of the Helms-Biden act. It was basically an agreement to pay for guarantees of rights:

Tranche One: $100 million paid to the UN
Guarantees: the UN will have no standing army; the UN will not take action forcing the US to violate its Constitution; the UN does not have external authority to borrow money (no "involuntary loans"); does not challenge US sovereignty (which is supposed to be guaranteed anyway); does not tax US citizens; does not charge interest on arrears for any nation; does not infringe on property rights.

Tranche Two: $582 million paid
Agreement: Assessment rate dropped to 22%, peacekeeping assessment to 25% (has not yet been enforced by the UN in violation of agreement)

Trance Three: $244 million to be paid
Agreement: FAO, ILO, and WHO to have no-growth budgets for biennium after acceptance; assessment rate ceilings for those three dropped to 22% (rather than the current 30%+); US seat on Budget Committee (wow...we may actually finally be allowed ON a committee[/sarcasm]); criteria for inspectors general established :!: ; US General Accounting Office access to UN budgetary information :!: ; new budget procedures to be implemented (not detailed in the brief I found).


Some other information: There are currently four groups that get discounts based on a combination of GNP, foreign debt, and population. The five permanent members of the Security Council (US, France, Britain, China, and Russia) all pay premiums over their regular assessment, which is why the USA, with ~27% of the world GDP, paid 30.4% of the peacekeeping budget in 2000. The primary reason the United States went into arrears is due to the United Nations continuing to charge the pre-Congressional law percentages after Congress passed the law saying that the United States legally could not fund over 25% of the peacekeeping budget of the United Nations, and over 20% of the regular budget (though that second portion appears to no longer be on the books).

Reading further, the United States Congress has continually modified the Helms-Biden to permit the UN to drag its feet on making changes. For FY2000, they approved the payment of 28.15% of the peacekeeping force, despite the law's requirement that it be no higher than 25%, so that the stipulations of the second payment were met.
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Post by Sidious »

Right...funding...because the USA doesn't already provide 27.3% of the UN's peacekeeping bill, and 22% of their total budget, and they bitch that we don't pay more . I also find the UN's claim that the US has 29% of the world's GNP somewhat suspicious, since Virginia Tech's numbers say that the US, Mexico, and Canada combined are only 30%. Unless the economies of Canada and Mexico combined are only 1% of the world's GNP, someone's not telling the truth. Unfortunately, I can't find any information on the estimated world-wide GDP. Plenty of growth percentage estimates, but no real numbers. All I can find is that the US's GDP is ~$10 trillion, and that in 1998 it was 27% of the world's GDP.
From the CIA Word Factbook http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/xx.html

US = 21% of Gross World Product. (So Canada + Mexico = 9%?)
China = 12%
Japanese = 7.3%
15 EU economies = 20%
Russia = 2.6%
Economy World Top of Page
Economy - overview:
Growth in global output (gross world product, GWP) fell from 4.8% in 2000 to 2.2% in 2001. The causes: slowdowns in the US economy (21% of GWP) and in the 15 EU economies (20% of GWP); continued stagnation in the Japanese economy (7.3% of GWP); and spillover effects in the less developed regions of the world. China, the second largest economy in the world (12% of GWP), proved an exception, continuing its rapid annual growth, officially announced as 7.3% but estimated by many observers as perhaps two percentage points lower. Russia (2.6% of GWP), with 5.2% growth, continued to make uneven progress, its GDP per capita still only one-third that of the leading industrial nations. The other 14 successor nations of the USSR and the other old Warsaw Pact nations again experienced widely divergent growth rates; the three Baltic nations were strong performers, in the 5% range of growth. The developing nations also varied in their growth results, with many countries facing population increases that eat up gains in output. Externally, the nation-state, as a bedrock economic-political institution, is steadily losing control over international flows of people, goods, funds, and technology. Internally, the central government often finds its control over resources slipping as separatist regional movements - typically based on ethnicity - gain momentum, e.g., in many of the successor states of the former Soviet Union, in the former Yugoslavia, in India, in Indonesia, and in Canada. In Western Europe, governments face the difficult political problem of channeling resources away from welfare programs in order to increase investment and strengthen incentives to seek employment. The addition of 80 million people each year to an already overcrowded globe is exacerbating the problems of pollution, desertification, underemployment, epidemics, and famine. Because of their own internal problems and priorities, the industrialized countries devote insufficient resources to deal effectively with the poorer areas of the world, which, at least from the economic point of view, are becoming further marginalized. The introduction of the euro as the common currency of much of Western Europe in January 1999, while paving the way for an integrated economic powerhouse, poses economic risks because of varying levels of income and cultural and political differences among the participating nations. The terrorist attacks on the US on 11 September 2001 accentuate a further growing risk to global prosperity, illustrated, for example, by the reallocation of resources away from investment to anti-terrorist programs. (For specific economic developments in each country of the world in 2001, see the individual country entries.)
GDP:
GWP (gross world product) - purchasing power parity - $47 trillion (2001 est.)
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Post by Darth Wong »

I like the way a guy can't even say "America is obviously an Empire" without people getting all defensive and pissed-off. What's wrong with that? You know and everyone else knows that America is an Empire.

What place on Earth is not permeated with American corporate influences, whose interests and deals and properties are not-so-subtly protected by American military might?

Is America good, as empires go? I'd say yes. But does that mean other nations should not be intimidated? Of course not. Everyone knows the Americans don't give a shit about world opinion, and on American TV and talk radio (not to mention bulletin boards like this one) that position is VERY clear, so don't bullshit me.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

There are different ways to measure GDP. The 10 trillion number is from one method which places the US at about 48%. The lower 23% figure only including money in the hands of individuals, not corporations IIRC.
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Post by phongn »

Darth Wong wrote:I like the way a guy can't even say "America is obviously an Empire" without people getting all defensive and pissed-off. What's wrong with that? You know and everyone else knows that America is an Empire.
I think Hanson was trying to say that the US isn't an Empire in the style of Victorian Britain or the Roman Empire. I should have posted the title: "A funny sort of empire."

But an Empire we are, I'm not denying that (nor was I trying to with that article).
Everyone knows the Americans don't give a shit about world opinion, and on American TV and talk radio (not to mention bulletin boards like this one) that position is VERY clear, so don't bullshit me.
There are some who worry about world opinion. They generally aren't in power, though. ;)
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

My opinion the US should only give a damn about the opinion of nations which don't neglect their militaries, and even then only to a point. The cuts most of Western Europe and Canada out of the equation. The world is governed by firepower. Even peaceful solutions to problems all too often either require a large military presence by a third party to keep it that way, or where forced by the military presence of a third party n the first place.
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Post by Enforcer Talen »

Id say it's an empire. not in having a monarch, of course, but in having sole dominance over the earth.

course, I want it to increase in stature. but thats just me.
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Post by Mr Bean »

Everyone knows the Americans don't give a shit about world opinion, and on American TV and talk radio (not to mention bulletin boards like this one) that position is VERY clear, so don't bullshit me.
The Democrats care about World Opion quite abit, The Repub's and Libertarians could'd give a shit either way

Maybe it was the Libs who taught the Rep's that important lesson

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Post by 0.1 »

There is no doubt that America is the foremost power in the world. Is it an empire? Well, look up most dictionary, you could argue the definition, but it isn't exactly the classic empire that goes out for pure territorial conquests... So, let's just call it an empire, so what.

In the history of empires, America is just about the most benevolent. As for why everyone is taking potshots at the U.S., well that's what happens when you're on top. It's the cycle of things, one of these days, the U.S. won't be on top, then it'll be someone else at the top taking all the shots. The extent of the world reaction is the simple realization that the U.S. is on the top of the good chain, that wasn't so clear back 30 years.

As for world opinion, America should give a damn about international credibility for the sole reason that it wants to stay on top as long as possible. Why tolerate the UN, well, simple, if the U.S. just goes on its own merry way every day doing whatever it wants to, eventually, it will have no allies left. And let's face it, if the entire world is pissed off at you, well, just look at all the empires that came before.

But it's all about balance, world opinion has to be considered, but never ever at the expense of the primary self-interest. Yeah, the Germans and the French are yapping like little dogs on the sideline screaming "America is unfair, bloody murder, blah blah bah." It's perfectly understandable, the French are in it for self-interest, and the Germans... well, the Germans are... doing something that doesn't make much sense.

This is the reason why the UN is really there, it lends "legitmacy" to the U.S., it provides the appearence of equality, never mind the fact that it's totally BS. The day that a country (other than the U.S.) voluntarily leaves the UN is the day when the beginning of the end arrives for America as a world power. In the end, it's a matter of appeasing the sensibilities of other nations enough so that the U.S. can serve their own enlightened self interest, which in this case is the elimination of a potential threat to the country. All the rest is really just noise.
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Post by CmdrWilkens »

Darth Wong wrote:I like the way a guy can't even say "America is obviously an Empire" without people getting all defensive and pissed-off. What's wrong with that? You know and everyone else knows that America is an Empire.

What place on Earth is not permeated with American corporate influences, whose interests and deals and properties are not-so-subtly protected by American military might?

Is America good, as empires go? I'd say yes. But does that mean other nations should not be intimidated? Of course not. Everyone knows the Americans don't give a shit about world opinion, and on American TV and talk radio (not to mention bulletin boards like this one) that position is VERY clear, so don't bullshit me.
Very briefly on the last you don't think the fact that an overwhelming majority of Americans called for international support, and oppossed unilateral action, means that we don't car about world opinion? We may find the resentment of others troubling but we, as a nation, care about world opinion and the polls speak for themselves.
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Post by CmdrWilkens »

SImply for the record without UN approval we would have to issue a declaration of war and then would be committing a "War of Aggression" under the UN Charter. What this means? Not much really but it could become a rather nasty point in the international media.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Let's put it this way: most Americans seem to want to humour the international community. They do not genuinely care what that commmunity thinks; they maintain the charade for the reasons others have mentioned earlier.

Do you or anyone else you know actually question America's position based on the opinion of other national leaders? I doubt it; you only wish to appease them so they won't give you annoying PR problems. That's not what I meant by caring about world opinion.
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Post by CmdrWilkens »

Darth Wong wrote:Let's put it this way: most Americans seem to want to humour the international community. They do not genuinely care what that commmunity thinks; they maintain the charade for the reasons others have mentioned earlier.

Do you or anyone else you know actually question America's position based on the opinion of other national leaders? I doubt it; you only wish to appease them so they won't give you annoying PR problems. That's not what I meant by caring about world opinion.
The thing is no one has ever really done much polling on that so hard data, as they say, is lacking and you are thus (unless you have some data source unknown to me) making a WAG about the opinion of the majority of Americans. Now maybe I'm biased as a good many of the people with whom I deal with are adamantly oppossed to war both for reasons highlighted elsewhere and for personal reasons but neh.
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Post by HemlockGrey »

And why should we care about world opinions, at this point in time? No one has anything really useful or honest to say on the matter.
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Post by CmdrWilkens »

HemlockGrey wrote:And why should we care about world opinions, at this point in time? No one has anything really useful or honest to say on the matter.
Then why should our opinion matter? If no one has anything useful to say why do we speak at all.
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Post by Darth Wong »

If you ask for proof that the majority of Americans do not care about world opinion, the fact that UN permission is not generally considered a prerequisite to aggressive military action speaks for itself.

I don't want this to turn into a debate over the merits of military intervention in Iraq; I'm just saying that Americans have always pretended to care about world opinion but this has never been reflected in the actions taken by popular leaders, and since they remain popular ...
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Post by Stravo »

Unfortunately World opinion is usually opposed to American interests. Why SHOULD America subrogate its own interests for what other nations think, particularly when these other nations have their OWN interests in mid when opposing the US. Prime example is France. Those little lying turds have millions in petro contracts with Iraq. They oppose the US actions NOT becuase of high ideals like world peace or sovereinty but because they lose out on lots of money.

So where does world opinion begin and self interest end? EVERY nation has its own interests to follow, The US is blessed in he fact that it can fullfill most of its interests without interference of other nations.

What would you do if your neighbor started complaining about your SUV and what its doing to the environment. That's right you'd tell him to fuck off, its YOUR SUV and YOUR home. Thats the general idea here.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Stravo wrote:Unfortunately World opinion is usually opposed to American interests. Why SHOULD America subrogate its own interests for what other nations think, particularly when these other nations have their OWN interests in mid when opposing the US. Prime example is France. Those little lying turds have millions in petro contracts with Iraq. They oppose the US actions NOT becuase of high ideals like world peace or sovereinty but because they lose out on lots of money.
Every nation acts on self-interest. When one nation is extremely powerful, it gets to act on unfettered self-interest.
So where does world opinion begin and self interest end? EVERY nation has its own interests to follow, The US is blessed in he fact that it can fullfill most of its interests without interference of other nations.
In a schoolyard, this is known as being a bully.
What would you do if your neighbor started complaining about your SUV and what its doing to the environment. That's right you'd tell him to fuck off, its YOUR SUV and YOUR home. Thats the general idea here.
So it's OK to be inconsiderate of others if you can get away with it? Why not throw trash out the car window while you drive down the highway? It's your car and your trash, right?
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"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

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Post by Sea Skimmer »

Darth Wong wrote: In a schoolyard, this is known as being a bully.
The worlds not fair, and trying to run international relations like you would a school yard is the road to disaster. It like trying the law enforcement approach to suicide bombers. 9/11 was the end result of that method.
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Post by Stravo »

I prefer to think of us as enlightened bullies :wink:
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