Posleen vs TBO

[Gerald Tarrant]

What about protection from lander, B-dec, and C-dec bombardment? Its been a while since I've read the books, but don't the posleen engage ground targets with these from air and orbit?

Nope, they only attacked air/space targets which where powered or shooting at them. The Landers only ever attacked ground targets which where attacking them.

Not really. In "A Hymn Before Battle" at the main line of resistance A Posleen B-Dec or C-Dec (can't remember which) starts shooting at mobile forces, and was set to attack the Main human forces before Mike took it out with his Nuclear heroics. Later books noted that Posleen normally didn't engage in Airmobile or bombardment activities, but there were rare incidents where it happened. That's why the SheVa's were invented, because landers anywhere but on the ground were difficult to kill. This sort of suggests that the landers did engage ground targets that didn't shoot at them, otherwise the airmobile and bombardment role wouldn't have been that much of a problem.

[Darth Hoth]

Does TBO Earth have the logistics, doctrine and experience to field large, sanely equipped ground forces? From what I understood of the books (sadly, I did not discover them till several were published and off HPCA), their military was more or less all-air, with a small Army and Marine Corps and little major ground war experience after the Great Patriotic Slaughter.

(Asking out of ignorance, not malice, so please do not nuke me to a crisp, Shep. . . )

[folti78]

<snip>

That's 4,524 MRLS rockets from a single MRLS Division.

Oh, did I also mention that I was going to use multiple MRLS divisions to pound Posleen landing zones?

Assuming 65% of the rockets from a single MRLS division are intercepted, we're still going to have 2,940 MRLS rockets impact the target zone.

Erm... assuming 65% loss, only 35%(~1583) of the rockets will survive.

[consequences]

One other thing, the Demons should already know about the Darhel. To give Earth the same amount of help/sabotage that happened in OTL, the same initial contact point of thousands of years ago has to be used.

[Junghalli]

Yet, you know, their anti-aircraft platforms can easily engage aerodynamic manouvering targets, but can't engage ballistic targets. Yeah, that makes complete sense.

As I remember, the Posleen targetting systems were computerized and something on a ballistic trajectory just didn't set them off.

... Don't look at me, I didn't write it, I'm just reporting it.

[Samuel]

Yet, you know, their anti-aircraft platforms can easily engage aerodynamic manouvering targets, but can't engage ballistic targets. Yeah, that makes complete sense.

As I remember, the Posleen targetting systems were computerized and something on a ballistic trajectory just didn't set them off.

... Don't look at me, I didn't write it, I'm just reporting it.

Burn the heretic!

(Further item for senate- why no flamethrower smilies?)

One other thing, the Demons should already know about the Darhel. To give Earth the same amount of help/sabotage that happened in OTL, the same initial contact point of thousands of years ago has to be used.

It actually makes more sense than the original time line. Are TBO universe humans more used to widespread, high casualty warfare?

[Academia Nut]

One other thing, the Demons should already know about the Darhel. To give Earth the same amount of help/sabotage that happened in OTL, the same initial contact point of thousands of years ago has to be used.

I think you posted in the wrong thread consequences.

[Darth Nostril]

I don't care, you would have to put a gun to my head to make me re-read the posleenverse crap, and even then I'd taunt you with your mom jokes to force you to pull the trigger.
Posleen vs anything = posleen lose a) because the author invented political ineptitude that just isn't humanly possible b) because the posleen are thick as pig shit

[RedImperator]

Yet, you know, their anti-aircraft platforms can easily engage aerodynamic manouvering targets, but can't engage ballistic targets. Yeah, that makes complete sense.

As I remember, the Posleen targetting systems were computerized and something on a ballistic trajectory just didn't set them off.

... Don't look at me, I didn't write it, I'm just reporting it.

Burn the heretic!

(Further item for senate- why no flamethrower smilies?)

Because 1) that lame cannon smiley is irritating enough, and 2) if you need an emoticon for people to know you're flaming them, you're doing it wrong.

[Samuel]

It isn't flaming- it is killing the messenger!

I should have used a different emoticon- sorry. Is there any possible way to fix the Posleen (like draka fic) or are they simply that screwy?

[Kodiak]

There are so many ways TBO could do better. They could ring the planet with asteroids so that when the Posleen pop out they annihlate, they could use nuclear mines, they could actually stockpile resources, they could use chemical weapons, etc.

IIRC, it was stated early on that the Posleen were immune to any and all known forms of chemical weapons and could survive incredibly harsh environments without difficulty.

[Samuel]

There are so many ways TBO could do better. They could ring the planet with asteroids so that when the Posleen pop out they annihlate, they could use nuclear mines, they could actually stockpile resources, they could use chemical weapons, etc.

IIRC, it was stated early on that the Posleen were immune to any and all known forms of chemical weapons and could survive incredibly harsh environments without difficulty.

I know. It just happens to be impossible. Alot of toxins are deadly because they displace or fill in for the required chemical or receptor. For the Posleen to be immune means no substance in the known universe matches their receptors... which is impossible because the chemicals they are using do.

I need examples. CO sticks to hemoglobin better than oxygen and neurotoxins attach to the recievers and prevent them from working.

As for harsh environments... I get the feeling we are going to have The Roughneck Chronicles wank. Nothing I saw showed they were exceptional, only the Galactics say-so who know jack shit about combat and are probably lying. Honestly, 40K codex narrorators are more reliable.

[CaptainChewbacca]

WRT B-Decs engaging ground targets, all planetary defense installations were wiped out in the first 'large' wave by orbital bombardment, before any posleen were on the ground. They are more than capable of targeting troop formations or large airfields, if only they knew what they looked like.

[Samuel]

WRT B-Decs engaging ground targets, all planetary defense installations were wiped out in the first 'large' wave by orbital bombardment, before any posleen were on the ground. They are more than capable of targeting troop formations or large airfields, if only they knew what they looked like.

Except they hold space superiority for the entire series and never bother with orbital bombardment.

[TheMuffinKing]

WRT B-Decs engaging ground targets, all planetary defense installations were wiped out in the first 'large' wave by orbital bombardment, before any posleen were on the ground. They are more than capable of targeting troop formations or large airfields, if only they knew what they looked like.

Except they hold space superiority for the entire series and never bother with orbital bombardment.

I know they never performed a sustained orbital bombardment, but didn't the Posleen hammer the Maginot line and Alpine defence centers in "Watch on the Rhine"? Was that from orbit or within atmosphere?

[Beowulf]

One other thing, the Demons should already know about the Darhel. To give Earth the same amount of help/sabotage that happened in OTL, the same initial contact point of thousands of years ago has to be used.

I think you posted in the wrong thread consequences.

Right thread. You know, the Seer and all of them?

[Samuel]

WRT B-Decs engaging ground targets, all planetary defense installations were wiped out in the first 'large' wave by orbital bombardment, before any posleen were on the ground. They are more than capable of targeting troop formations or large airfields, if only they knew what they looked like.

Except they hold space superiority for the entire series and never bother with orbital bombardment.

I know they never performed a sustained orbital bombardment, but didn't the Posleen hammer the Maginot line and Alpine defence centers in "Watch on the Rhine"? Was that from orbit or within atmosphere?

I believe it was atmospheric. Of course, it only happened about 3 years into the war, so it is rather irrelevant if the opponet can prevent them from gaining a foothold.

One other thing, the Demons should already know about the Darhel. To give Earth the same amount of help/sabotage that happened in OTL, the same initial contact point of thousands of years ago has to be used.

I think you posted in the wrong thread consequences.

Right thread. You know, the Seer and all of them?

No, that goes in the Posleen vs Armaggedon universe humans.

[TheMuffinKing]

Thank you Samuel, it's been a while since I've read any "Legacy of the Aldenata".

About their bombardment 3 years into the war...does anyone know if that was an adaptive tactic, concerning their situation on and around Earth? Is this strategy part of their normal timeline of operations?

[Lonestar]

No, that goes in the Posleen vs Armaggedon universe humans.

The Seer and his assistants ARE Demons, one of them is Lilith, the first woman.

[Mr Bean]

About their bombardment 3 years into the war...does anyone know if that was an adaptive tactic, concerning their situation on and around Earth? Is this strategy part of their normal timeline of operations?

I believe that all cases of non-defensive orbital bombardment has to deal with the the so called 5%. IE God-Kings above the standard rush forward shoot until you overrun them or die.


Never forget(Plot wise) that the Polseen are a biological weapon gone Rogue. Genetically built four legged Reptiles. They eat anything, all are breeder, their young require little care only feeding and they reproduce like crazy. Add in some crazy genetic based memory(Nano-technology passed along with the young, actual gene encoding, whatever) that kicks in right around the time they are useful for tasks and you have a Easy Bake Army. Take a few thousand pick a planet and bang, you got yourself a bloodthirsty horde. Sad to say at some point they turned on their makers and now they are the equivalent of reproducing rampaging Killbots. And to be on the safe side after they conquer the planet they sooner or later commit mass suicide via tribal warfare w/nukes and large scale kinetic strikes.

[Samuel]

No, that goes in the Posleen vs Armaggedon universe humans.

The Seer and his assistants ARE Demons, one of them is Lilith, the first woman.

DO I want to know what I missed?

Thank you Samuel, it's been a while since I've read any "Legacy of the Aldenata".

About their bombardment 3 years into the war...does anyone know if that was an adaptive tactic, concerning their situation on and around Earth? Is this strategy part of their normal timeline of operations?

Adaptive tactic. In Hells Gates it was used after 3 years of continuous total war by a God King who had experience in fighting humans (he was on Diess). In Watch on the Rhine, it was used after years of war to break the fortified lines.

Both cases it was a single God-King who did it, both cases it was a new idea, both cases it was hard to carry of due to the pathetic stupidity of their troops.

About their bombardment 3 years into the war...does anyone know if that was an adaptive tactic, concerning their situation on and around Earth? Is this strategy part of their normal timeline of operations?

I believe that all cases of non-defensive orbital bombardment has to deal with the the so called 5%. IE God-Kings above the standard rush forward shoot until you overrun them or die.


Never forget(Plot wise) that the Polseen are a biological weapon gone Rogue. Genetically built four legged Reptiles. They eat anything, all are breeder, their young require little care only feeding and they reproduce like crazy. Add in some crazy genetic based memory(Nano-technology passed along with the young, actual gene encoding, whatever) that kicks in right around the time they are useful for tasks and you have a Easy Bake Army. Take a few thousand pick a planet and bang, you got yourself a bloodthirsty horde. Sad to say at some point they turned on their makers and now they are the equivalent of reproducing rampaging Killbots. And to be on the safe side after they conquer the planet they sooner or later commit mass suicide via tribal warfare w/nukes and large scale kinetic strikes.

The less said about the sheer stupidity of that concept, the better. Thanks Mr Bean for reminding me that Ringo wanted a universe to justify ground warfare. Any idea of why he wanted to do that aside from wanking US infantry?

[Adrian Laguna]

DO I want to know what I missed?

I'll make it short for you. In the TBO 'verse there are unusually long lived humans. They're called "demons", but they aren't really, it's more like a weird mutation that gives you glowy eyes and a thousand year life-span, many thousands of years in some cases.

[RedImperator]

DO I want to know what I missed?

I'll make it short for you. In the TBO 'verse there are unusually long lived humans. They're called "demons", but they aren't really, it's more like a weird mutation that gives you glowy eyes and a thousand year life-span, many thousands of years in some cases.

A common theme in Slade's writing is the factual core of myths. In TBO, which predates Armageddon by some years, the famous named demons of myth are actually extremely long-lived humans who had an impact on history, and were eventually remembered as supernatural creatures. In Armageddon, demon is a generic term for the inhabitants of Hell, but he also based the characters and appearances of the big named demons (Abigor, Beelzebub, what's-his-face with the volcanoes [I'm terrible at remembering names]) on their descriptions in mythology, and then turned the myths on their heads by making them, in universe, distorted memories of previous encounters with them.

[Gerald Tarrant]

The less said about the sheer stupidity of that concept, the better. Thanks Mr Bean for reminding me that Ringo wanted a universe to justify ground warfare. Any idea of why he wanted to do that aside from wanking US infantry?

I believe he was in the Airborne. As for the rest the afterword to Hell's Faire contains explains a bit more.

I had been . . . dissatisfied with some of the other novels that had handled alien invasion. Admittedly, if a space-faring species with faster than light travel wants to take Earth they are probably going to succeed. Once a species "owns" the gravity well, there's not much you can do about it.

Ergo, for humanity to survive (and have the book be much more interesting than "and then all the humans died and the evil aliens lived happily ever after") the aliens have to be hamstrung. But, why would aliens with FTL be incapable of using their full potential?

The few novels that had approached this problem I found unsatisfactory. So, to address this, I developed the Posleen. Starting from certain premises I traced the logic back and as I did many things derived from the logic rather than forcing the logic. Tom Clancy says that the two parts to a successful novel are "what if" and "what's next"?

What if . . . there was a species that . . . (but that would be telling). And what next?

I originally had intended for them to be able to destroy artillery, for example, but the logic of their origins militated against it. Likewise their enormously resistant physiologies. Yes, any oxygen breather will have trouble with cyanide. But at what concentration? And for what duration? But is it possible to design a species that would be highly resistant to truly weird environmental conditions? Planets where most of the atmosphere is gaseous sulphur, planets with semi-sentient and aggressive biospheres? Take every horror planet ever conceived in science fiction and design a race to survive them, and even thrive on them. And, if so, wouldn't they be resistant to any chemical attack?

And so, with some logic in hand and a vague series of images I set out to write a book. It was not intended to be published (indeed, until about three months before I sent Hymn Before Battle off to Baen Books I had never considered becoming a published author), but rather it was a book for me, something that I wanted to read, an alien invasion where the "good guys" (that's us) got to really sink their teeth into the bad guys (that's the Posleen). No gray areas, no ambiguity. Victory or death. Vive le morte! Once more unto the breach! Take that bunker or die trying!

I mean, if it isn't victory or death, what's the point? (Oh, Art? Excuse me while I laugh. Go read some of the reviews of Dickens.)

At some point in the future there will be stories that expand upon the logic and reveal all the strings behind the curtains. And books in which the focus slides completely off of the Posleen as the enemy and onto newer, more silvery, pastures. And, yes, books that are "grayer."

But, alas, the writing of those books will be some time. I've sort of "burnt out" on the Posleen and I'm going to be writing some other stuff for a few years. I don't think that there will be anything in them that will cause any of my current readers to go astray and I hope that they are more "approachable" to some of the readers who, let us say, don't care for piles of yellow, leaking corpses.

Rest assured, though, Mike O'Neal, Papa and of course Cally (as if I was going to kill her) will be back. In the meantime just imagine them out there. Mike is retaking planets from the Posleen and Papa and Cally are covering his back. Kickin' ass and not even bothering to take names.

Whether he knows it or not.

Take care and just remember; the good guys always win in the end.

Link

[Vehrec]

I originally had intended for them to be able to destroy artillery, for example, but the logic of their origins militated against it. Likewise their enormously resistant physiologies. Yes, any oxygen breather will have trouble with cyanide. But at what concentration? And for what duration? But is it possible to design a species that would be highly resistant to truly weird environmental conditions? Planets where most of the atmosphere is gaseous sulphur, planets with semi-sentient and aggressive biospheres? Take every horror planet ever conceived in science fiction and design a race to survive them, and even thrive on them. And, if so, wouldn't they be resistant to any chemical attack?

[rant]Biology Doesn't Work That Way! Anything that was engineered for so many environments and possible toxins would be so metabolically loaded down as to be almost incapable of basic functions like reproduction and growth. You can't have a race that thrives in every concieveable environment because adaptations are specific and you'd need so many of them that you wouldn't have a credible enemy anymore.[/rant]

I still can't believe it took three books for his characters to figure out the Shield Mines for instance. I'd have had those in Book One, and I'd use them against more than just infantry. They slice and dice everything, we have the perfect missile warhead for those starfighters that were so easily killed in the second book. Use your technobable for great justice!