Transgender Woman Murdered [UPDATED]

[The Duchess of Zeon]

So, you're saying that police in large cities specifically hunt down transgender people and then falsely accuses them of prostitution just for walking. They throw out the audio recordings that they use for normal prostitutes when dealing with transgender prostitutes?

Yes, it's happened to countless friends and acquaintances for mine. There are no audio recordings made--they just arrest them as prostitutes. The vast majority of the time the charges are dropped, but they spend a couple nights in jail and are humiliated in the process, and that's all the cops really care about doing in such circumstances.

Also, the original article specifically stated that all charges had been dropped against her, so, no, she was not a prostitute--there were no grounds found with which to charge her with prostitution, ergo, my friend, she was not a prostitute.

[Ender]

Shouldn't this be in OT as it is a "true crime" story?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Shouldn't this be in OT as it is a "true crime" story?

Sir, I do believe it deals with a rather important and recent topic, that of discrimination against transsexuals. It is not intended to be posted for its drama--shootings are not particularly dramatic sorts of murders--but for its sociopolitical implications and the indication it shows of a tendency toward widespread discrimination in our society, against a particular segment of that society.

[Alyrium Denryle]

So, you're saying that police in large cities specifically hunt down transgender people and then falsely accuses them of prostitution just for walking. They throw out the audio recordings that they use for normal prostitutes when dealing with transgender prostitutes?

Do they do it systematically? Maybe not. Do they get bored and see one and decide to have some fun? Yes. Are there numbers? No. Is it easy to prove? No. Does it happen? Yes. You will have a hard time finding a transexual or transgendered person who has not had to suffer that shit in one form or another.

[Kamakazie Sith]

If you'd paid the slightest attention to the case, you'd notice that the police department dismissed all charges against her, because there was zero evidence whatsoever that she was a sex worker. The arrest was made purely on the discretion of the two officers who brutalized her, and it's blatantly obvious that they arrested her for no other reason than being bigoted mouth-breathing retards who wanted to play a little bit of "beat the crap out of the tranny freak".

That's a common action in all cases where there has been police brutality. Unless you think Rodney King was innocent. Was he charged with the crimes he committed prior to the excessive force? No. The charges were dropped. He wasn't even charged with attempting to assault the officers before they started to beat him. He wasn't charged with felony fleeing which he should have been charged with...

And you know what? They pretty much got away with it -- they only lost their jobs, when they should be in prison for aggravated assault and battery.

I agree here.

[Kamakazie Sith]

So, you're saying that police in large cities specifically hunt down transgender people and then falsely accuses them of prostitution just for walking. They throw out the audio recordings that they use for heterosexual prostitutes when dealing with transgender prostitutes?

Yes, it's happened to countless friends and acquaintances for mine. There are no audio recordings made--they just arrest them as prostitutes. The vast majority of the time the charges are dropped, but they spend a couple nights in jail and are humiliated in the process, and that's all the cops really care about doing in such circumstances.

Your friends should file civil suits. My department is small, and we use audio recordings for evidence for prostitution. It is hard to swallow that someone could be charged with prostitution in a large city that is able to keep FLIR equipped helicopters in the air as part of patrol, but not afford basic digital recording devices.

Also, the original article specifically stated that all charges had been dropped against her, so, no, she was not a prostitute--there were no grounds found with which to charge her with prostitution, ergo, my friend, she was not a prostitute.

Just because the charges were dropped doesn't mean they weren't valid. It just means that the prosecution knew it couldn't win at this point.

Ghetto EDIT - I have to correct a shortsighted response of mine in bold. I just wasn't thinking so I hope nobody was offended, and I deeply apologize if anyone was offended.

[JCady]

Don't jump to conclusions that the Memphis PD will fuck this one up because of your own preconceptions. Memphis is perhaps the most laid-back, liberal, rational city in TN. This type of murder, besides being heinous, will also receive national attention. I expect a fully competent prosecution, with the guilty parties identified and found guilty by a jury of their peers.

The only reason anything was done about the initial beating incident was that the guilty officer had the gall to file an internal complaint against a third police officer at the station who refused to help assault Johnson. That led to an administrative review of the security footage by the local district attorney in order to determine if the other officer's inaction was justified, and it was the DA -- not the police department -- who decided that McRae's actions were outrageously inappropriate and called in the FBI.

Had McRae kept his mouth shut, he would have been protected by the "thin blue line" and never gotten in trouble.

[Count Chocula]

JCady,

You have a valid point, but now it's a murder case. That alone will draw much more scrutiny than a "bigot cops beat transgendered female" case. Due to their earlier (indiscretion) worst-case stereotype Southern dipshit redneck Deliverance-class biased fuckup, the officers who were fired are most likely the chief suspects in the murder. Also, the District Attorney brought the original assault incident to light; that reinforces my impression that MPD will do this one right.

The fact that one of the guilty officers shone the spotlight on his own fucktard actions, unfortunately, reinforces the Southern stereotype. Look at the good side: 2 more down, ??? to go.

[JCady]

So, you're saying that police in large cities specifically hunt down transgender people and then falsely accuses them of prostitution just for walking. They throw out the audio recordings that they use for heterosexual prostitutes when dealing with transgender prostitutes?

Yes, it's happened to countless friends and acquaintances for mine. There are no audio recordings made--they just arrest them as prostitutes. The vast majority of the time the charges are dropped, but they spend a couple nights in jail and are humiliated in the process, and that's all the cops really care about doing in such circumstances.

Your friends should file civil suits. My department is small, and we use audio recordings for evidence for prostitution. It is hard to swallow that someone could be charged with prostitution in a large city that is able to keep FLIR equipped helicopters in the air as part of patrol, but not afford basic digital recording devices.

Ms. Johnson was arrested on charges of prostitution several more times between the beating incident and her murder last night. Every single time, the charges were later dropped due to a lack of evidence. I always try to give police officers the benefit of the doubt, but the only way that could possibly be construed as anything but retaliation would be to posit that Memphis undercover officers are so totally incompetent that they can't remember to turn on a tape recorder when running a simple prostitution sting.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Ms. Johnson was arrested on charges of prostitution several more times between the beating incident and her murder last night. Every single time, the charges were later dropped due to a lack of evidence. I always try to give police officers the benefit of the doubt, but the only way that could possibly be construed as anything but retaliation would be to posit that Memphis undercover officers are so totally incompetent that they can't remember to turn on a tape recorder when running a simple prostitution sting.

What's your source?

[Knife]

I find it suspicious. Isn't it possible the victim was indeed a prostitute AND a tranny? We're all acting like if the victim (not saying she's supposed to die or wanted it) is automatically relieved of their transgressions in life due to oppressions. The cops could well have fucked with her and she could still be a whore. Advocates have failed to prove this vital fact, when dip shit cops could have been out to be pricks.

[Broomstick]

So, you're saying that police in large cities specifically hunt down transgender people and then falsely accuses them of prostitution just for walking. They throw out the audio recordings that they use for heterosexual prostitutes when dealing with transgender prostitutes?

Yes, it's happened to countless friends and acquaintances for mine. There are no audio recordings made--they just arrest them as prostitutes. The vast majority of the time the charges are dropped, but they spend a couple nights in jail and are humiliated in the process, and that's all the cops really care about doing in such circumstances.

Your friends should file civil suits. My department is small, and we use audio recordings for evidence for prostitution. It is hard to swallow that someone could be charged with prostitution in a large city that is able to keep FLIR equipped helicopters in the air as part of patrol, but not afford basic digital recording devices.

Chicago - a rather large and well-funded city - is STILL winding through trails and accusations of police torture dating back 20 years or more. This sort of shit DOES happen. I won't go into the details of police misconduct in Chicago other than to say it runs from assaults to theft to murder and it's not limited to transsexuals.

And even if she WAS a whore she does not deserve to be beaten and doing so is a CRIME that should be punished regardless of who or what she was.

[JCady]

Ms. Johnson was arrested on charges of prostitution several more times between the beating incident and her murder last night. Every single time, the charges were later dropped due to a lack of evidence. I always try to give police officers the benefit of the doubt, but the only way that could possibly be construed as anything but retaliation would be to posit that Memphis undercover officers are so totally incompetent that they can't remember to turn on a tape recorder when running a simple prostitution sting.

What's your source?

Source links are at the bottom of my blog post: http://phoenixvtam.livejournal.com/13821.html

[Alyrium Denryle]

Your friends should file civil suits. My department is small, and we use audio recordings for evidence for prostitution. It is hard to swallow that someone could be charged with prostitution in a large city that is able to keep FLIR equipped helicopters in the air as part of patrol, but not afford basic digital recording devices.

Arrested for a crime is different than making the charge stick past a bail hearing. Arresting someone is something that, frankly, a police officer can do on a whim. Getting it to stick and not be sued is another matter. But when you target poor nearly homeless transexuals for such treatment... Little danger of that.

[JCady]

I find it suspicious. Isn't it possible the victim was indeed a prostitute AND a tranny?

First, do not use the term "tranny". It's derogatory and unacceptable.

Second, do you know why transgender women are often prostitutes? Because in all but twelve states, it is absolutely legal to discriminate against transgender persons. You can't fire someone for being part of a racial minority or for being a woman, but you can fire anyone for being trans. This would have been addressed by the federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), but gay-rights advocates led by Representative Barney Frank convinced the Democratic Party to remove the provisions protecting transgender Americans and turn ENDA into a gay rights only bill.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Chicago - a rather large and well-funded city - is STILL winding through trails and accusations of police torture dating back 20 years or more. This sort of shit DOES happen. I won't go into the details of police misconduct in Chicago other than to say it runs from assaults to theft to murder and it's not limited to transsexuals.

And even if she WAS a whore she does not deserve to be beaten and doing so is a CRIME that should be punished regardless of who or what she was.

I never said things like this don't happen, and I certainly never said that she deserved this. I hope justice is served. However, what I am wondering is why JCady is making statements of fact without naming the source. Also, there seems to be a misconception that just because charges are thrown out means that they weren't valid in the first place...

[Knife]

Arrested for a crime is different than making the charge stick past a bail hearing. Arresting someone is something that, frankly, a police officer can do on a whim. Getting it to stick and not be sued is another matter. But when you target poor nearly homeless transexuals for such treatment... Little danger of that.

Nice supposition. Now make it an argument.

[Knife]

I find it suspicious. Isn't it possible the victim was indeed a prostitute AND a tranny?

First, do not use the term "tranny". It's derogatory and unacceptable.

Uhm, by what terms? If you feel uncomfortable fine, just say so. I used it due to linguistic vagueness on the issue. Your reaction makes an emotional response. A knee jerk if you will. Don't want to be a tranny, fine. Isn't it possible that the transsexual was a prostitute AND a transsexual?

Second, do you know why transgender women are often prostitutes? Because in all but twelve states, it is absolutely legal to discriminate against transgender persons.

Not following your logic. Is it your argument that because they are transgender and discriminated against the only recourse is to be a whore?

You can't fire someone for being part of a racial minority or for being a woman, but you can fire anyone for being trans.

Or the tired old argument that repressed people must turn to crime to survive?

This would have been addressed by the federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), but gay-rights advocates led by Representative Barney Frank convinced the Democratic Party to remove the provisions protecting transgender Americans and turn ENDA into a gay rights only bill.

Ah, so you have a data point, please extrapolate it into some sort of meaning.

[ray245]

First point to note, I am not trying to discriminate Transsexuals here. The issue of transsexual did bring up one issue I am curious about, and please correct me if I am very wrong with this question.

How do we define Male and Female in a political and scientific term anyway? Shouldn't the definition of male and female be based on the issue of reproduction? Do you produce a sperm, or do you produce an egg? If a male is pregnant with the child, shouldn't he be defined as the mother or female instead?

Again, feel free to correct him if I asked a very wrong and sensitive question.

[JCady]

I find it suspicious. Isn't it possible the victim was indeed a prostitute AND a tranny?

First, do not use the term "tranny". It's derogatory and unacceptable.

Uhm, by what terms? If you feel uncomfortable fine, just say so. I used it due to linguistic vagueness on the issue. Your reaction makes an emotional response. A knee jerk if you will. Don't want to be a tranny, fine.

Tranny is a derogatory term. It's equivalent to calling a gay person a faggot or an African-American person a nigger.

Second, do you know why transgender women are often prostitutes? Because in all but twelve states, it is absolutely legal to discriminate against transgender persons.

Not following your logic. Is it your argument that because they are transgender and discriminated against the only recourse is to be a whore?

Yes, it is extremely common for transgender women to be forced into prostitution or pornography because they are unable to find work in any other field regardless of their qualifications. This is a huge problem for transgender Americans.

You can't fire someone for being part of a racial minority or for being a woman, but you can fire anyone for being trans.

Or the tired old argument that repressed people must turn to crime to survive?

That argument is certainly silly when used as a generalized defense of minority criminals, but it is entirely valid in the limited context we're talking about here. When every possible employer will slam the door in your face for being a "perverted tranny freak", the options do pretty much come down to "hook or starve".

[JCady]

First point to note, I am not trying to discriminate Transsexuals here. The issue of transsexual did bring up one issue I am curious about, and please correct me if I am very wrong with this question.

It's an understandable question, but it's kinda off topic. I'm not a moderator, of course, but it's probably better to start another thread for that.

[Coyote]

This will end badly.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Tranny is a derogatory term. It's equivalent to calling a gay person a faggot or an African-American person a nigger.

I did not know that.

Yes, it is extremely common for transgender women to be forced into prostitution or pornography because they are unable to find work in any other field regardless of their qualifications. This is a huge problem for transgender Americans.

It is a huge problem, and it needs to be addressed. However, if you commit a crime trying to survive you should be prepared to deal with the consequences.

That argument is certainly silly when used as a generalized defense of minority criminals, but it is entirely valid in the limited context we're talking about here. When every possible employer will slam the door in your face for being a "perverted tranny freak", the options do pretty much come down to "hook or starve".

We basically have to take your word that this is the case and that "every possible employer" will either not hire a transgender person, or will fire them once discovered. Though doesn't Marina hold a job? Did I misread that somewhere?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Arrested for a crime is different than making the charge stick past a bail hearing. Arresting someone is something that, frankly, a police officer can do on a whim. Getting it to stick and not be sued is another matter. But when you target poor nearly homeless transexuals for such treatment... Little danger of that.

Nice supposition. Now make it an argument.

Most of my experience is with gay men, but from what I remember of a paper I wrote ages ago (and the source article I cannot find on web of science) a rather large portion of gay men report having been harassed by the police within the past year. Now, I can only make an inference, an inference that is backed up by pretty much everything any of my numerous transexual friends have ever told me, that it is worse for them. Much worse. No one has numbers though. You search through a research database and you will not find a single paper reporting mistreatment of transexuals by police.

Police typically I hate to say, fit the profile for homo and transphobia. Gay people have social networks and support systems we can use to protect ourselves. Activists groups that LOVE to bite into such people. Transexuals largely do not. I am ashamed to say that even our groups marginalize them. Considering that homosexuals are more likely to be victimized the greater their gender non-conformity, do the fucking math.

[Alyrium Denryle]

We basically have to take your word that this is the case and that "every possible employer" will either not hire a transgender person, or will fire them once discovered. Though doesn't Marina hold a job? Did I misread that somewhere?

Marina is one of the lucky ones. I will leave it at that. Speaking only of MtFs 32% have HIV, which is also the suicide-attempt rate, unemployment within past 6 months is 50%. CLinical depression 60%. Rape rate, 50%, gender discrimination 62%, 36% have been physically assaulted because they are trans.

And that is in San Fransisco, and the ones who are referred to the researchers by established organizations. Not the ones on the street.