Transgender Woman Murdered [UPDATED]

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Count Chocula
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

Post by Count Chocula »

This will end badly.
No, it will end with the guilty parties found guilty.

[Responding to ray245]
Biologically, the issue may be more complex. If you are referring to unaltered mammals, those who produce sperm are male and those who produce ova are female. HOWEVER, when you are referring to human beings the issue becomes much more complex. Is a Renaissance-era castrato a male? Yes. Is a homosexual female a female? Again yes. Is a person who was born wholly or partially (by genetics) male, and then chooses to become functionally female, a female? YES - if that is how she chooses to express her identity. That is an aspect of humans that is unique among mammals - we can adapt our behavior much more radically than other species on this planet. Ever seen a "butch dyke?" (with apologies - for example only, no insult intended) - that's an example of a biological female CHOOSING the traditional male role, most notably in a relationship. You could say the same in reverse about so-called effeminate gay men.

The crux of this Tennessee case seems to be that it was committed because the victim was transgendered. Substitute negro or gay if you like, it's still a crime (if this is the reason why it occurred, as seems likely) because a couple of narrow-minded a-holes decided they didn't like a member of a minority, and decided to 'get some.' While it's not a race issue, it seems to be a case of members of a majority group committing crimes upon a minority.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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Kamakazie Sith wrote:
JCady wrote:Yes, it is extremely common for transgender women to be forced into prostitution or pornography because they are unable to find work in any other field regardless of their qualifications. This is a huge problem for transgender Americans.
It is a huge problem, and it needs to be addressed. However, if you commit a crime trying to survive you should be prepared to deal with the consequences.
Prostitution should not be a crime in my opinion, but that's another debate entirely. The last time I checked, however, the crime of prostitution was not punishable by either police brutality or by death.
That argument is certainly silly when used as a generalized defense of minority criminals, but it is entirely valid in the limited context we're talking about here. When every possible employer will slam the door in your face for being a "perverted tranny freak", the options do pretty much come down to "hook or starve".
We basically have to take your word that this is the case and that "every possible employer" will either not hire a transgender person, or will fire them once discovered. Though doesn't Marina hold a job? Did I misread that somewhere?
Only twelve states include "gender identity" as a protected category in employment anti-discrimination laws; Tennessee is not one of them. Nor is Memphis one of the hundred-odd cities that have local-level employment protection for transgendered persons. The exact extent and pervasiveness of discrimination against transgender persons varies from place to place, of course, and for fairly obvious reasons tends to be directly proportional to how conservative any particular area is -- your own home state of Utah ranks among the worst.

As for direct proof, this isn't exactly something that has been the subject of formal sociological surveys or polls. It's a widely known fact among the transgender community, but it's more or less a matter of collective personal experience.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

JCady wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
JCady wrote:Yes, it is extremely common for transgender women to be forced into prostitution or pornography because they are unable to find work in any other field regardless of their qualifications. This is a huge problem for transgender Americans.
It is a huge problem, and it needs to be addressed. However, if you commit a crime trying to survive you should be prepared to deal with the consequences.
Prostitution should not be a crime in my opinion, but that's another debate entirely. The last time I checked, however, the crime of prostitution was not punishable by either police brutality or by death.
That argument is certainly silly when used as a generalized defense of minority criminals, but it is entirely valid in the limited context we're talking about here. When every possible employer will slam the door in your face for being a "perverted tranny freak", the options do pretty much come down to "hook or starve".
We basically have to take your word that this is the case and that "every possible employer" will either not hire a transgender person, or will fire them once discovered. Though doesn't Marina hold a job? Did I misread that somewhere?
Only twelve states include "gender identity" as a protected category in employment anti-discrimination laws; Tennessee is not one of them. Nor is Memphis one of the hundred-odd cities that have local-level employment protection for transgendered persons. The exact extent and pervasiveness of discrimination against transgender persons varies from place to place, of course, and for fairly obvious reasons tends to be directly proportional to how conservative any particular area is -- your own home state of Utah ranks among the worst.

As for proof, this isn't exactly something that has been the subject of formal sociological surveys or polls. It's a widely known fact among the transgender community, but it's more or less a matter of collective personal experience.[/quote]

Frankly even San Fransisco is disgusting by any objective standard. I dont want to think what other cities are like
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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Er, could a mod kindly delete my double post?
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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JCady wrote:Er, could a mod kindly delete my double post?
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The Duchess of Zeon
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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The Pale of Settlement was the area that Jews were restricted to living in. In the same way, I refer to the West Coast as being exactly identical--The Pale of Settlement for Transwomen. So I hope that provides some context, gentlemen. Yes, I have been employed before, and am employable. Here. Once I finish transitioning, however, I an emigrating to Canada with all of my documents in order and showing female, which will erase (to my new country) any record of the government of that country having considered me anything else--the only sure way to completely avoid all discrimination on the issue is to leave the country of your birth after fully transitioning, gain citizenship in another, and then never bring it up to anyone, ever. That is of course my current plan. I may change my name again to facilitate erasing all the tracks as much as possible, too (my last name, obviously not my first name. I'm Marina).

At any rate, the correct biological term for me is an "XY Sex-Inversed Female", and should be used at all times when referring to transwomen biologically. A similar term refers to women born with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, which means they are also XY, but develop from birth as women externally including complete and normal female genitalia, but are of course permanently sterile--they usually don't find out until age 15 or 16 when they don't start menstruating. So these sorts of disorders are not merely biological (a part of the brain, which is proved to control sex expression in rats, the BST(c) region, has in transwomen identical neuron density to XX expressed females, while both transwomen and XX expressed females have half the neuron density of XY expressed males--both gay and straight). Or in short the crucial, sex-expression part of the transwoman's brain is identical in neuron density to a normal, biological woman's, and half the neuron density of a man's. This has been controlled for hormone therapy, so we know that the reduced neuron density was present before hormone therapy, and is not caused by it.

Certainly this may not be universally applicable. For instance it may not be the case in Jacie, since Klinefelter's syndrome tends to cause much higher levels of expression of transsexualism, so it is possible, perhaps, to have a reduced BST(c) neuron density as one cause, and Klinefelter's as another cause, for instance, you see? But in all cases the causes are, fundamentally, biological.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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JCady wrote: Tranny is a derogatory term. It's equivalent to calling a gay person a faggot or an African-American person a nigger.
And I won't make the mistake again towards you or any that feel the same. I have also never encountered it before so [ b ] and [ i ] is hardly necessary.

Yes, it is extremely common for transgender women to be forced into prostitution or pornography because they are unable to find work in any other field regardless of their qualifications. This is a huge problem for transgender Americans.
Source please. I'd like to educate myself.
That argument is certainly silly when used as a generalized defense of minority criminals, but it is entirely valid in the limited context we're talking about here. When every possible employer will slam the door in your face for being a "perverted tranny freak", the options do pretty much come down to "hook or starve".
Cool, sources please. I'd like to educate myself.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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The Duchess of Zeon wrote:For instance it may not be the case in Jacie, since Klinefelter's syndrome tends to cause much higher levels of expression of transsexualism, so it is possible, perhaps, to have a reduced BST(c) neuron density as one cause, and Klinefelter's as another cause, for instance, you see?
Then again, it's perfectly plausible that an XXY trans girl like me has the same BST(c) neuron density as a XY trans girl. The natural phenotype for Klinefelter's is, after all, predominantly male to the point where most XXY persons never even realize they're XXY. There is a modest tendency towards a more androgynous appearance, but in my case it's rather hard to tell how much of it is due to just plain being a slim little Asian in the first place.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Coyote wrote:This will end badly.
Oh hardly, I think I've clarified things for Ray.

It's all in the head, really, a woman is someone who has the brain structure of a female. If they're born with XX chromosomes, they're a sex expressed XX female, if they're born with XY chromosomes, they're a Sex Inversed XY female, and change the modifier as necessary.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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I've never attempted suicide, I've never been a prostitute, and I'm HIV negative. Let me say that is what Aly means when he says I'm lucky... And I'd rather not elaborate, okay? But I'm saying that for the purpose of making it clear just how bad things are. Certainly my employment has been.. intermittent and my housing situation unstable. The only physical violence against me was by my parents, too. Altogether, very lucky--but still hardly unscarred. I am definitely at the top of the heap as transwomen go, regardless. Most are immeasurably worse off than I am.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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Knife wrote:Source please. I'd like to educate myself.
As I mentioned above, there has been hardly any sociological research into the transgender community, not least because it's predominantly an underground demographic. I say these things because I know they are true, but knowing they are true is based on the internal grapevine of the transgender community and that's not exactly a citable reference to outsiders.

ABC News did an article on it last year, but it barely skims the surface: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=3156598. Do note that ABC clearly didn't do ANY homework at all on this; hormone therapy for a trans girl does not change her voice (it's basically a LOT of intense speech therapy, usually do-it-yourself), and it does very little to change body hair aside from preventing the onset of male pattern baldness (you have to shave, wax, or otherwise depilate EVERYTHING, unless you've saved up enough for permanent hair removal via laser or electrolysis).
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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Here's another useful source, again a San Francisco based study. Other sources have indicated infection rates in major US cities of 60%, however.

I'll try to find one of those...

...Oh, did: And the source for that
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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Count Chocula wrote:
This will end badly.
No, it will end with the guilty parties found guilty.

[Responding to ray245]
Biologically, the issue may be more complex. If you are referring to unaltered mammals, those who produce sperm are male and those who produce ova are female. HOWEVER, when you are referring to human beings the issue becomes much more complex. Is a Renaissance-era castrato a male? Yes. Is a homosexual female a female? Again yes. Is a person who was born wholly or partially (by genetics) male, and then chooses to become functionally female, a female? YES - if that is how she chooses to express her identity. That is an aspect of humans that is unique among mammals - we can adapt our behavior much more radically than other species on this planet. Ever seen a "butch dyke?" (with apologies - for example only, no insult intended) - that's an example of a biological female CHOOSING the traditional male role, most notably in a relationship. You could say the same in reverse about so-called effeminate gay men.

[/quote]

By that definition, if you can call a eunuch a castrated male, then that means you are allowed to call a female who undergo sex change a transgendered female as well, right? A man who is straight, but choose to be feminine will simply be called a feminine male as well. I still can't see the logical reasoning behind calling a transgendered person a opposite sex.

Sorry if I am asking a politically incorrect question.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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ray245 wrote:By that definition, if you can call a eunuch a castrated male, then that means you are allowed to call a female who undergo sex change a transgendered female as well, right? A man who is straight, but choose to be feminine will simply be called a feminine male as well. I still can't see the logical reasoning behind calling a transgendered person a opposite sex.
Quite simply, because that's the gender that person identifies as. A castrati is still a man because he identifies as one, not because of the biology.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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ray245 wrote:
By that definition, if you can call a eunuch a castrated male, then that means you are allowed to call a female who undergo sex change a transgendered female as well, right?
No, that is extremely incorrect.
A man who is straight, but choose to be feminine will simply be called a feminine male as well. I still can't see the logical reasoning behind calling a transgendered person a opposite sex.

Sorry if I am asking a politically incorrect question.
You're expressing ignorance, but I am female, and you will refer to me as such. The biological, physical structure of my brain is female, thus my personality is that of a woman--what is so hard to see in that? The BST(c) region controls sex expression and has half the neuron density in transwomen as in men, a density identical with XX women. So that is the logical reason for calling a transgendered person by the Correct sex, which is the sex they have transitioned into (for XY sex-inversed females--and you ignored that explicit terminology, which calls us females--that would be female, she, her, etc). For XX sex-inversed males, that would be he, his, and so on.

The fact that transsexualism is biological is an incontrovertible one, which has been proved in repeated studies, just like it is for homosexuality, and therefore the sex-pronouns and designation used must reflect the brain-structure makeup, regardless of chromosomes, because there are a large number of disorders which cause the makeup of the brain and the body to deviate from the norm, or which even create ambiguous chromosomal patterns and even sexual organ development. Therefore the only real way to designate one's functional sex is based on brain structure, which is recognized by behavioural patterns. A eunuch is still a man (in most cases) because his brain was and is always that of a male. Same with most bulldyke lesbians. Not the case with transwomen or transmen, because their brain structure was, is, and always will be that of a woman, or a man, respectively, and that controls all of our impulses toward social interaction.

As for the scientific terminology, that has already been sourced and provided--Sex-Inversed XY Female, or Sex-inversed XX Male.

Are you clear now?

Addendum: It is NOT the opposite sex. Calling me a female is calling me the same, the correct sex, regardless of my chromosomes. This is very well established.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
ray245 wrote:
By that definition, if you can call a eunuch a castrated male, then that means you are allowed to call a female who undergo sex change a transgendered female as well, right?
No, that is extremely incorrect.
A man who is straight, but choose to be feminine will simply be called a feminine male as well. I still can't see the logical reasoning behind calling a transgendered person a opposite sex.

Sorry if I am asking a politically incorrect question.
You're expressing ignorance, but I am female, and you will refer to me as such. The biological, physical structure of my brain is female, thus my personality is that of a woman--what is so hard to see in that? The BST(c) region controls sex expression and has half the neuron density in transwomen as in men, a density identical with XX women. So that is the logical reason for calling a transgendered person by the Correct sex, which is the sex they have transitioned into (for XY sex-inversed females--and you ignored that explicit terminology, which calls us females--that would be female, she, her, etc). For XX sex-inversed males, that would be he, his, and so on.

The fact that transsexualism is biological is an incontrovertible one, which has been proved in repeated studies, just like it is for homosexuality, and therefore the sex-pronouns and designation used must reflect the brain-structure makeup, regardless of chromosomes, because there are a large number of disorders which cause the makeup of the brain and the body to deviate from the norm, or which even create ambiguous chromosomal patterns and even sexual organ development. Therefore the only real way to designate one's functional sex is based on brain structure, which is recognized by behavioural patterns. A eunuch is still a man (in most cases) because his brain was and is always that of a male. Same with most bulldyke lesbians. Not the case with transwomen or transmen, because their brain structure was, is, and always will be that of a woman, or a man, respectively, and that controls all of our impulses toward social interaction.

As for the scientific terminology, that has already been sourced and provided--Sex-Inversed XY Female, or Sex-inversed XX Male.

Are you clear now?

Addendum: It is NOT the opposite sex. Calling me a female is calling me the same, the correct sex, regardless of my chromosomes. This is very well established.
I will refer you as a female of course, nor am I against who you are. And Duchess, cool down, it is much easier to think when you are calm. I am just questioning why they use this sort of reasoning instead of looking at things in a simpler manner.

Why can't you another definition altogether then? Sometime, I find society as a whole is so caught up in the issue of definition, that it hinders our ability to reason in a calm and cool manner. If people want to call me who they want, let them be. Scientific defintion is one thing, social defintion is another thing altogether. Definition only highlight and reinforce our social insecurity why is the mental makeup, or the Sex-Inversed XY Female, or Sex-inversed XX Male more important than the physical aspect?

I mean, I know scientist use this terminology to define a person, but why do scientist or biologist say that the brain is more important than the physical body? I mean using the brain as part of the definition makes sense, but I don't know why should the brain supersede the body? That is something that people did not explain to me.

Feel free to tell me wrong, however, I hope people can really cool down before this thread was taken down and put up in the HoS section.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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Generally the brain is more important than the body in the same way that a plane does not fly a pilot; a pilot flies a plane.

That's why we consider ourselves to be possessing bodies, and not bodies possessing minds, typically.

It thus follows that one's brain supercedes one's body when the two contradict over identity.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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ray245 wrote:
I will refer you as a female of course, nor am I against who you are. And Duchess, cool down, it is much easier to think when you are calm. I am just questioning why they use this sort of reasoning instead of looking at things in a simpler manner.
Good sir, my apologies for the quickness, but you must understand that I have undertaken to explain this (each time successfully) on many occasions before, and besides, I was mostly trying to be conciliatory. I believe my reputation in occasions where I am not is, for better or worse, quite well established.
Why can't you another definition altogether then? Sometime, I find society as a whole is so caught up in the issue of definition, that it hinders our ability to reason in a calm and cool manner. If people want to call me who they want, let them be. Scientific defintion is one thing, social defintion is another thing altogether. Definition only highlight and reinforce our social insecurity why is the mental makeup, or the Sex-Inversed XY Female, or Sex-inversed XX Male more important than the physical aspect?
To wit, it is because of the legal consequences of the definition that it must be harshly policed. More to the point, you seem to still misunderstand slightly. "Sex-Inversed XY Female" does in fact precisely describe the physical aspect, because it describes physical differences in the brain of the individual in question. Physical differences in the brain are, I would submit, still physical differences.
I mean, I know scientist use this terminology to define a person, but why do scientist or biologist say that the brain is more important than the physical body? I mean using the brain as part of the definition makes sense, but I don't know why should the brain supersede the body? That is something that people did not explain to me.
It does not. The brain is a component of the body which is a determinator of personality.
Feel free to tell me wrong, however, I hope people can really cool down before this thread was taken down and put up in the HoS section.
An analogy:

It is possible, if one really wanted to, though hardly ideal, to take a laptop hard-drive, place it inside the casing of a desktop, and make the whole contraption work. Laptop hard-drives have certain physical characteristics which place limitations on them different from those on desktop hard-drives. But the computer will nonetheless still operate. However, the laptop hard-drive would be more valuable, and useful in society, if it was placed inside of a laptop, where its virtues (compactness, etc), would be utilized, unlike in a desktop where they are not virtues at all, but instead simply add to the number of potential problems in the system.

If we were to extract this laptop hard drive from the desk top and place it in a laptop, it would therefore not merely function better, but function in its intended role. Furthermore, it would be in a role whereby its advantages could actually be utilized, instead of actually ending up as hindrances.

In the same way, a female brain in a male body means that there were numerous disadvantages, whereas most female advantages are useless. Correcting the body to match the brain rectifies this, while at the same time not violating a person's fundamental right to exist by altering them. Though in a general sense the biological differences in the brain are not strictly necessary--as long as it does not harm their social utility (and on a highly, highly overpopulated planet like Earth, transsexualism has no harm to a transexual's social utility, because we better serve our societies by NOT breeding), there should really be no restriction on physical modifications to the body if the personal satisfaction they bring improves someone's ability to function and contribute to the society in which they live.

But that is merely to answer a hypothetical question which I fancied might arise, whereas the argument for the facts has already, I do hope you see, been rather neatly settled.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

MRDOD wrote:Generally the brain is more important than the body in the same way that a plane does not fly a pilot; a pilot flies a plane.

That's why we consider ourselves to be possessing bodies, and not bodies possessing minds, typically.

It thus follows that one's brain supercedes one's body when the two contradict over identity.
If I may elaborate on the matter, my dear lesbian sister (of a sort), the brain is simply a part of the body. It happens to be the part of the body that determines one's behaviour and outlook and etc, thus it determines how we interact with other humans. Female structures in the brain, in short, determine all our social interactions to be female, even if the rest of the body is anatomically male. The whole brain/body dichotomy I submit is very unhelpful to understanding this issue. Once we realize that the body of a transwoman is not male (except at a chromosomal level), but rather contains concrete female elements in the brain in areas that decisively define personality and social interaction, we begin to understand the real intelligence, subtlety, and appropriateness of the biological definition "XY Sex-Inversed Female."
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

Post by Duckie »

That is a good point- too often people seem to forget that the mind and the brain are physical objects too, that all things are biological in nature and ultimately physical things.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

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ray245 wrote:By that definition, if you can call a eunuch a castrated male, then that means you are allowed to call a female who undergo sex change a transgendered female as well, right? A man who is straight, but choose to be feminine will simply be called a feminine male as well. I still can't see the logical reasoning behind calling a transgendered person a opposite sex.

Sorry if I am asking a politically incorrect question.
"Political correctness" in my experience and opinion does not exist save as an inverse cover for blatant rudeness. And you are being blatantly rude.

As Marina covered, a transgendered person does not "choose" to fit their identified gender. They either do or are plowed under and eventually killed by the depression, anxiety and hopelessness of living a life that is not theirs. That's not a choice, that's survival.

The least - the very least - that you can do is respect our identities, the same way you would respect the identity of a cissexual gay or lesbian person.
At the time, you might think that it's a mistake you can never undo.
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Lusankya
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

Post by Lusankya »

La Maupin wrote:
ray245 wrote:By that definition, if you can call a eunuch a castrated male, then that means you are allowed to call a female who undergo sex change a transgendered female as well, right? A man who is straight, but choose to be feminine will simply be called a feminine male as well. I still can't see the logical reasoning behind calling a transgendered person a opposite sex.

Sorry if I am asking a politically incorrect question.
"Political correctness" in my experience and opinion does not exist save as an inverse cover for blatant rudeness. And you are being blatantly rude.

As Marina covered, a transgendered person does not "choose" to fit their identified gender. They either do or are plowed under and eventually killed by the depression, anxiety and hopelessness of living a life that is not theirs. That's not a choice, that's survival.

The least - the very least - that you can do is respect our identities, the same way you would respect the identity of a cissexual gay or lesbian person.
I don't think ray's trying to be rude. He's just chronically dense, and English is his second language. This constant asking of stupid questions is just his way of honestly trying to understand.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

Post by Broomstick »

Regrading transsexualism and prostitution:

I have to wonder if the "she-male" motif in porn has an unfortunate impact on people's perceptions of the transgendered. If most of a person's information about transsexuals comes from porn - which is all too possible in the US, because where else are they featured? - then it becomes all too easy to assume an obvious transsexual encountered in real life is a prostitute or other sex worker.

This meme is not limited to the West, either - a very high rate of prostitution and HIV is documented among the hijras of India, usually described as "men living as women" but I think quite a few of them would meet the definition of "transsexual" and historically most have undergone castration (which, until the 20th Century, was about as far as sex reassignment surgery went).

I've encountered a transwomen undergoing transition in real life in an architecture firm. I know of another who lost her job on transitioning and is now an unemployed alcoholic dependent on family for support. When I worked at the drug rehab clinic one of the clients was a transwoman who was, no bones about it, a prostitute. That's a very small sample on which to draw. On line, I know of one who is a professional writer and one who is a power plant engineer (and that is aside from Marina). The power plant engineer, by the way, is not out at her employment, at work she still presents as a male and feels that she must do this in order to keep her job which, as she is now supporting a partner (I have no idea if they're actually legally married or not) who is disabled. She is out as a transwoman at home and on the internet. Well, that's very complicated and getting off track. There is a transwoman professor at the University of Chicago who has admitted she felt forced to engage in sex work in order to survive at one point. Clearly, not all transsexuals engage in sex work, but it certainly is a fear among them that they will be forced into it, and it certainly has happened to some of them.

I think transsexuals who can successfully pass as "born women" have a distinct advantage over those who cannot. If they can pass then others will treat them as a woman in job interviews and employment. Those who can not pass will suffer - the mixed signals they give off (female body language and male physique, for example) will be disturbing to many (rightly or wrongly), they will not be taken seriously, they will be perceived as men in drag, as freaks... well, they are not treated kindly.

Which makes me wonder about transmen. I've heard that there are fewer transmen, but I have to wonder about that. For one thing, sexual reassignment surgery for transmen just isn't as effective for them for reasons of biology so perhaps many simply never seek that option and thus escape official notice. Society may be more tolerant of "butch" women than effeminate man so a transman not yet transitioning physically but acting masculine may arouse less anger. The simple addition of sufficient male hormone lowers a woman's voice and produces beard growth, so there may be a "do it yourself" factor (nevermind the dangers of self-prescribing and using illicit sources of hormones) so again they escape official notice. Another factor is that there are more employment options for men, even today. A woman's employment of last resort is prostitution - a man's more typically is manual labor. A transman may simply find it easier to get legitimate employment, even if small and slightly effeminate in appearance, than a transwoman does. As long as said transman is not in a situation requiring a circle jerk he should be able to pass. There have been a number of historical cases of a physical woman passing as a man for decades and only being discovered to be physically female at death.

So I don't doubt that some transsexuals wind up prostitutes, as a means to survive, because it certainly does happen to "born women". I don't doubt that's a fear they have, because it's a fear "born women" have, too. Marginalized women of any sort are more likely to wind up as prostitutes. For that matter, male prostitutes are likely to come from marginalized groups such as homosexuals and runaways. I don't doubt that a transwoman unfortunate enough to be mistaken for a man in drag is perceived as a prostitute, or a "faggot", or even a male prostitute. It's wrong, but I don't see where anyone should be surprised that it happens.

Much of the above is speculation on my part, by the way, and subject to change with additional facts being presented. Part of the problem is that transsexuals haven't been studied much and the vast majority are absolutely hidden away and likely to stay that way for their own personal safety.
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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

Post by Broomstick »

La Maupin wrote:
ray245 wrote:By that definition, if you can call a eunuch a castrated male, then that means you are allowed to call a female who undergo sex change a transgendered female as well, right? A man who is straight, but choose to be feminine will simply be called a feminine male as well. I still can't see the logical reasoning behind calling a transgendered person a opposite sex.

Sorry if I am asking a politically incorrect question.
"Political correctness" in my experience and opinion does not exist save as an inverse cover for blatant rudeness. And you are being blatantly rude.
Ray is from Singapore and very much a product of his native culture. English is his second language. Because of those two factors he regularly asks questions in such a manner as to come across as rude (he's recently stumbled a bit in some of the US election and politics threads, too).

I think he's sincerely asking to be enlightened, but he's have some difficulty communicating in a polished manner. I'd cut him a little slack in this case, at least for now.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: Transgender Woman Murdered

Post by ray245 »

La Maupin wrote:
ray245 wrote:By that definition, if you can call a eunuch a castrated male, then that means you are allowed to call a female who undergo sex change a transgendered female as well, right? A man who is straight, but choose to be feminine will simply be called a feminine male as well. I still can't see the logical reasoning behind calling a transgendered person a opposite sex.

Sorry if I am asking a politically incorrect question.
"Political correctness" in my experience and opinion does not exist save as an inverse cover for blatant rudeness. And you are being blatantly rude.

As Marina covered, a transgendered person does not "choose" to fit their identified gender. They either do or are plowed under and eventually killed by the depression, anxiety and hopelessness of living a life that is not theirs. That's not a choice, that's survival.

The least - the very least - that you can do is respect our identities, the same way you would respect the identity of a cissexual gay or lesbian person.
I am respecting your identities. However, asking something that might offend people unintentionally is better than being ignorant right?
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