T:SCC 2x08: "Mr Ferguson is Ill Today"

[Thanas]

Sarah, Cameron, Derek, and Ellison work together while Cromartie gets closer to John and Riley in Mexico

Apparently, the whole gang visits Mexico. Why? And why do they need to bring Riley with them?

Let's hope this episode is better than the last one. And I really hope Cromartie is not the one getting killed - I like him far too much for it.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Eh. I knew who they were going to get rid of, it was really their only option out of who was up. Still I don't think they needed to get rid of anyone yet, and if they did it should of been Charlie Dixon.

Also the splitting up into each one's story was forced in this episode. Completely unnecessary and threw the pacing off.

[Losonti Tokash]

I actually really liked it. Gave it a bit of a Pulp Fiction feel.

[Burak Gazan]

"She has damage to her chip. She's making mistakes. Not as many as you are though...."

The cut was different but all in all not too bad. Good ending though with Sarah completely losing it in fury smashing the CPU. That amount of hate deserves respect

[Darth Lucifer]

Sarah, Cameron, Derek, and Ellison work together while Cromartie gets closer to John and Riley in Mexico

Apparently, the whole gang visits Mexico. Why? And why do they need to bring Riley with them?

Let's hope this episode is better than the last one. And I really hope Cromartie is not the one getting killed - I like him far too much for it.

Despite Sarah having smashed Cromartie's chip into tiny pieces, I have a feeling that they'll find a way to bring him back. Isn't there another chip floating around out there? I'm thinking of the one from the Ellison Terminator that Cromartie killed protecting the real Ellison. Unless I'm mistaken, that T-888's chip wasn't destroyed and for all we know, Cromartie could have backed himself up on its CPU. I'm hoping so, because we already know T-888's can still control their bodies with their heads detached. This coupled with the fact that Sarah didn't give Cromartie the thermite treatment. Then again, it would be easier for Cromartie to just use the Ellison terminator endoskeleton than to use his old one. I'm just taking wild guesses here.

At the end, I thought he went down way too easy. Have guns really improved that much from the mid-90's or is the T-888 model that much weaker than the T-800 (which took way more gunfire in Terminator 2)?

[Solauren]

You'll note it was Cameron's weapon that did all the damage to the T-888.

And we've seen that there are armor-piercing style rounds that damage Terminators quite handily.

Rounds that were not being used in the Terminator movies.

[charlemagne]

Sarah didn't give Cromartie the thermite treatment.

She said they'd come back to destroy it.

I liked the episode. The cuts were a bit forced at times, yeah, because there weren't really any "revelations" going on, e.g. why and how Derek & Cameron came to Mexico so fast. It didn't cut back and forth between different time frames all the time, so it's not really Pulp Fiction style, but it was ok overall.

John's and Cameron's talk was a bit creepy... I almost expected her to say something like "I can alleviate your teenage hormone stress a bit, if you like, I'm doing it for future John all the time" Also she purposely showed off her boobs, that's a new infiltration technique there.

The part with Sarah in the trunk was well done, a bit like the big Cromartie shootout with the camera in the swimming pool.

Also, I'm glad Sarah finally lost it, too. She'd been bottling up so much, that cannot have been healthy. Flipping out on Cromartie's chip was a good way to have her lose it. Also hopefully John will lose the stupid now, since he finally actually managed to get Riley shot at.

So now what... they got rid of Cromartie, the only other Terminator out there they knew of. Now they can focus on the Turk, and I bet they'll all be surprised when Sarah's "This was it" to Ellison will turn out to be quite untrue.

[McC]

I'm hoping they bring Riley into the fold. One of the things that most annoys me about shows where there's a supernormal element is that everyone always goes to great lengths to hide it from people who are obviously trustworthy (c.f. Smallville). Riley, particularly now, can pretty certainly be trusted with the full knowledge of what's going on, and may even be able to help. I'm not sure how...but all the same.

Still, this was quite a good ep.

[Anguirus]

The episode had a perfectly serviceable plot, some great lines, and some great shots. It still didn't quite come together into "5" material for me, though...guess I'm getting picky.

Considering what Cromartie survived before, I expected him to get a bit of a bigger death. (Note: this is unrelated to the "how durable are Terminators" on and off discussion, just how I felt about him as a character.) Specifically, I was surprised that he shut down with his chip so largely intact at the end...maybe a connection was hit by John's coup de grace. (Also, anyone else notice his spasmodic breathing? I thought it was weird since they only appear to breathe for infiltration purposes...but it was certainly creepy.)

Hopefully dispatching the immediate threat lets them delve more into the Weaver and the "Connor family dynamic" storylines. I also must reiterate that as sad as I am to see Cromartie go, they had to either kill him, rework him, or lose his menace entirely. (Also considering what the guy's been through, Darth Lucifer's idea seems scarily plausible. They probably wouldn't pull a stunt like that till another season or so rolls by, just when everyone's forgotten about him though!)

[Anguirus]

Ghetto edit: anyone else understand the title?

[Thanas]

Ghetto edit: anyone else understand the title?

It is Cromartie's first line in the show, when he acts as a substitute teacher.

Despite Sarah having smashed Cromartie's chip into tiny pieces, I have a feeling that they'll find a way to bring him back. Isn't there another chip floating around out there? I'm thinking of the one from the Ellison Terminator that Cromartie killed protecting the real Ellison. Unless I'm mistaken, that T-888's chip wasn't destroyed and for all we know, Cromartie could have backed himself up on its CPU. I'm hoping so, because we already know T-888's can still control their bodies with their heads detached. This coupled with the fact that Sarah didn't give Cromartie the thermite treatment. Then again, it would be easier for Cromartie to just use the Ellison terminator endoskeleton than to use his old one. I'm just taking wild guesses here.

Why would Cromartie feel the need to back himself up? Besides, I would doubt that the frequency of the body control extends as far back as mexico.

You'll note it was Cameron's weapon that did all the damage to the T-888.
And we've seen that there are armor-piercing style rounds that damage Terminators quite handily.
Rounds that were not being used in the Terminator movies.

Also, note that she always hit the same spot, whereas Derek and Sarah were just blasting at him. Couple that with AP rounds and you get the idea.

I liked the episode. The cuts were a bit forced at times, yeah, because there weren't really any "revelations" going on, e.g. why and how Derek & Cameron came to Mexico so fast. It didn't cut back and forth between different time frames all the time, so it's not really Pulp Fiction style, but it was ok overall.

Agreed. That was quite the plot hole. I hope they address it in the podcast.

John's and Cameron's talk was a bit creepy... I almost expected her to say something like "I can alleviate your teenage hormone stress a bit, if you like, I'm doing it for future John all the time" Also she purposely showed off her boobs, that's a new infiltration technique there.

Not really. Remember Vick's chip? She has always brushed up against him or given him a good view of her when she wanted him something to do.

Also, I'm glad Sarah finally lost it, too. She'd been bottling up so much, that cannot have been healthy. Flipping out on Cromartie's chip was a good way to have her lose it. Also hopefully John will lose the stupid now, since he finally actually managed to get Riley shot at.

Don't count on it.

I'm hoping they bring Riley into the fold. One of the things that most annoys me about shows where there's a supernormal element is that everyone always goes to great lengths to hide it from people who are obviously trustworthy (c.f. Smallville). Riley, particularly now, can pretty certainly be trusted with the full knowledge of what's going on, and may even be able to help. I'm not sure how...but all the same.

Well, so far she does not know anything about machines. And there really is no reason for them to bring her into the fold - what can she do that the others cannot? Plus, Sarah and Cameron do not like her at all and of course, there is still the matter of John doing stupid things because of Riley...Finally, Sarah might veto the idea because she does not want to place civillians at risk.


As for me, the episode fell short. It could have achieved greatness if Cromartie hadn't died that quickly, although this was more realistic than Cameron destroying him in hand-to-hand combat.

[Thanas]

Ghetto edit: A 4 for me.

[charlemagne]

Not really. Remember Vick's chip? She has always brushed up against him or given him a good view of her when she wanted him something to do.

I'll have to rewatch that.

Another thought: so back when Sarah and John lived in Mexico, Sarah was stupid or naive enough to go by their real names.

I agree that Cromartie's "death" was a bit anti-climatic, but there still were some great shots, the pose of Cromartie firing at the windows while being pounded by bullets looked great, so did John delivering the mercy shot.

The whole scenery was a great choice in my opinion, I'm a sucker for "dias de la muerte" stuff ever since Grim Fandango

[Anguirus]

Yeah, Bear McCreary's Blog answered my question, but thanks. I haven't seen the pilot in awhile. I finally got paid for this month, maybe I should pick up a season 1 DVD set...

[Crazedwraith]

Fuck, Cromartie got a pussy death. Ambush with a couple of MP5's and a shotgun? Ahnuld would have shrugged that attack off. Now Cromatie has been through some weird shit. (could 7 years in a scrap heap/unprotected time travel for the skull weakened his chassis?) He also failed to retreat when ambushed from a position he wasn't able to accurate return fire from, which is bloody stupid.

Cromartie's inaccuracy with firearms compared to movie Terminators is nothing new but particular jarring in the episode, Sarah and Derek were using the same windows to fire from repeatedly: all he had to do was aim at the window and fire when they popped up.

Also, Cameron sidling up to John in bed wearing an obvious pink bra under her top... Along with Terminator of the week, Cameron turning into John's personal slut bot is one of my bug worries for the show. It kinda makes sense but it also reeks of fan service.

I'm giving this a 3/5 despite my bitching, the story and presentation of this episode is solid its just the 'pay off' at the end doesn't well pay off, at all.

[Anguirus]

Frankly, I'm almost surprised that the sexual subtext between John and Cameron hasn't gone farther. Think about it. She's a manipulative robot with an obsessive sense of devotion, no real sense of morals, and no modesty. John is a 16 year old. If the show didn't acknowledge this, it would border on breaking my SOD. As it is, they have dealt with it in a tasteful and understated manner that leaves both of them some room to grow. It almost seems like there is intentional avoidance of fanservice (notice how her clothes miraculously failed to take much damage when her car blew up?).

Hell, John's practically a prude. I expected him and Riley to be all over each other in Mexico.

As for Cromartie being inaccurate...I agree that he certainly should have winged one of them (in fact, it looked to me like Derek got a graze at one point) but he was trying to return fire in two directions at once with a weapon in each hand. That's a recipe for fail. Arnold's Terminator only had super-hyper accuracy in the minigun scene, which was frankly absurd on its face (it is impossible to use precision fire with a real minigun, it was a Movie Minigun). If Arnold had had decent accuracy in T1 then the movie would have been over after the nightclub scene...never mind that he deliberately purchased and employed a laser sight on his .45 Longslide.

And as for his durability, Cameron's shotgun (was it a shotgun? I figured it for a big rifle) was about as big as she was, and she hit him four times on the left side of his face at like a 10 ft. range. (Also, her accuracy was no doubt improved by the fact that she wasn't firing automatic weapons arms akimbo like John Woo.) That should kill him, did kill him, and I'm glad it did and Terminators are just plain not magic pwn-bots in this show.

[Peptuck]

I liked this one, though a few niggling bits bothered me. Mostly, the multiple viewpoints of this episode felt kind of off and unnecessary; there was nothing in this episode that couldn't be achieved with normal editing and storytelling.

I was bothered at first by how easily Cromartie went down, but on closer viewing of the episode it looks like Cameron was shooting him with solid slugs instead of buckshot, judging by the deformation of his face. If they were using armor-piercing ammunition, then that scene makes a lot more sense.Still, John shooting him in the head at the end with a pissy M9 (I think) was silly; 9mm wouldn't even make Cromartie flinch.

Fridge logic: did no one in LA notice the fact that Cromartie's open-topped car had a woman duct-taped in the back during the whole drive out of town? He should have just dumped her in the trunk right off.

I'm finally getting around to not hating Riley anymore, which surprised me. I did like how she finally admitted that her relationship with John was pretty off-kilter and screwed up.

Notes on Cameron this episode: Damn, she is manipulative. At least with John, though she's done it before when she needs him to do something. I do like the continued hinting at a much deeper connection between her and future John. Also, looked like there were a few flickers of deliberate emotion from her again in this episde; when she got up from the bed, she seemed to be deliberately inhaling and exhaling, and when she was remarking that Derek stayed out of the house a lot, she got an annoyed grimace on her face. Also, in the police station, she seemed to be almost....well, I'm not going to say "frantic" because she wasn't, but she seemed about as worried for John as a machine could possibly be.

I noticed Ellison is using his former status as FBI to bluff around people. You'd think that resigning would cut him out of the loop, though in the Mexican cops' case, they probably didn't bother checking if he flashed a badge.

Anyone else get the impression Cromartie isn't quite dead yet? Next episode's preview shows the Connors trying to dig him back up, and there's at least one shot in that preview showing Cromartie active again.

I rate it a 4.

[Crazedwraith]

T1 Terminator fired Rifles and shotguns akimbo in the Police scene. Accurately. Through walls. (Admittedly one at time, not simultaneously) A 9mm MP5/pistol combo should not overly affect him. Plus he didn't need to try and fire at two targets at once. Fire at one target until eliminated, then switch to the other target. He could have got close enough to a wall to avoid being shot at by one of then as well.

Seeing as T2 Terminator walked through a SWAT team's worth of MP5s fire for long enough to knee cap the entire team, it struck me as wrong that Cromartie was clearly affected by it in this episode. Which leads me on to: eights in a junkpile did him no good at all.

Arnold's Terminator only had super-hyper accuracy in the minigun scene, which was frankly absurd on its face (it is impossible to use precision fire with a real minigun, it was a Movie Minigun). If Arnold had had decent accuracy in T1 then the movie would have been over after the nightclub scene...never mind that he deliberately purchased and employed a laser sight on his .45 Longslide.

How about the aforementioned shooting through walls? And its been a while since I saw T1 but I only seem to recall Arnold missing because he was getting shotgunned up by Reese and then because Sarah was running in the middle of the crowd, he didn't so much miss as other people got in the way.

[Thanas]

Fuck, Cromartie got a pussy death. Ambush with a couple of MP5's and a shotgun? Ahnuld would have shrugged that attack off. Now Cromatie has been through some weird shit. (could 7 years in a scrap heap/unprotected time travel for the skull weakened his chassis?) He also failed to retreat when ambushed from a position he wasn't able to accurate return fire from, which is bloody stupid.

First, for the shrugging off - Arnold wasn't pounded with those armor-piercing rounds Derek mentioned, was he? And for the ambush - it wasn't really a danger to him. He could have stood there indefinitely and fired back.

Seeing as T2 Terminator walked through a SWAT team's worth of MP5s fire for long enough to knee cap the entire team, it struck me as wrong that Cromartie was clearly affected by it in this episode. Which leads me on to: eights in a junkpile did him no good at all.

Unless I am mistaken, swat teams do not regularly load their weapons with AP rounds. And was Cromartie really that effected by it? IIRC only his clothes were pierced. He shrugged it off and continued to fire at Derek and Sarah and if Cameron hadn't shot him then, I have no doubt he would have won that fight.

Also, Cameron sidling up to John in bed wearing an obvious pink bra under her top... Along with Terminator of the week, Cameron turning into John's personal slut bot is one of my bug worries for the show. It kinda makes sense but it also reeks of fan service.

Nah, that actually made sense - her playing on his hormones. Unlike in 2x03 where it was pure fan service.

[charlemagne]

Still, John shooting him in the head at the end with a pissy M9 (I think) was silly; 9mm wouldn't even make Cromartie flinch.

When John shot him Cromartie was missing half a head already, and I think shooting right in the inside of a Terminator's head, not at the armour/plating, might be hurtful even if it's a puny 9mm.

I noticed Ellison is using his former status as FBI to bluff around people. You'd think that resigning would cut him out of the loop, though in the Mexican cops' case, they probably didn't bother checking if he flashed a badge.

That was a bit curious, Ellison actually showed the Mexican police chief a badge, but I don't think you get to keep your badge when you resign from the FBI. So either he really bluffed around with a fake badge, or he painted over the "Invalid" stamp like the retired FBI agent in Once upon a time in Mexico

[His Divine Shadow]

At the end, I thought he went down way too easy. Have guns really improved that much from the mid-90's or is the T-888 model that much weaker than the T-800 (which took way more gunfire in Terminator 2)?

I assume special 12ga slug ammunition was used, of the AP variety. Still given what we've seen I didn't expect that to be enough either.

[Crazedwraith]

First, for the shrugging off - Arnold wasn't pounded with those armor-piercing rounds Derek mentioned, was he? And for the ambush - it wasn't really a danger to him. He could have stood there indefinitely and fired back.

The sound was slightly unsynchronised when I was viewing this, I must have missed this fact. When did Derek say they were using AP? And where did he get them?

He shrugged it off and continued to fire at Derek and Sarah and if Cameron hadn't shot him then, I have no doubt he would have won that fight.

He looked pretty fucked up and shaky when he was turning to face Cameron.

Nah, that actually made sense - her playing on his hormones. Unlike in 2x03 where it was pure fan service.

Yeah, it can be justified but the term 'slippery slope' comes to mind. Once they start making up good excuses they open the door to bad ones.

That was a bit curious, Ellison actually showed the Mexican police chief a badge, but I don't think you get to keep your badge when you resign from the FBI. So either he really bluffed around with a fake badge, or he painted over the "Invalid" stamp like the retired FBI agent in Once upon a time in Mexico

Has he actually officially left the FBI yet? I thought he was just on an enforced 'leave of abscence' to 'recover' from the Cromartie slaughter incident.

[Thanas]

Frankly, I'm almost surprised that the sexual subtext between John and Cameron hasn't gone farther. Think about it. She's a manipulative robot with an obsessive sense of devotion, no real sense of morals, and no modesty. John is a 16 year old. If the show didn't acknowledge this, it would border on breaking my SOD. As it is, they have dealt with it in a tasteful and understated manner that leaves both of them some room to grow. It almost seems like there is intentional avoidance of fanservice (notice how her clothes miraculously failed to take much damage when her car blew up?).

Yeah, I agree. In fact, note that we haven't gotten any "Connors need to infiltrate a beach" or other stuff this season.

I was bothered at first by how easily Cromartie went down, but on closer viewing of the episode it looks like Cameron was shooting him with solid slugs instead of buckshot, judging by the deformation of his face. If they were using armor-piercing ammunition, then that scene makes a lot more sense.Still, John shooting him in the head at the end with a pissy M9 (I think) was silly; 9mm wouldn't even make Cromartie flinch.

Well, I would assume that this was only to let John vent some of his anger - it is not like the 9mm did any real damage at all. Cromartie was already out of commission. Maybe he hit the only functioning eye as coup de grace? Obviously, Cameron removed the chip thereafter, so I would still say she did the most damage.

Notes on Cameron this episode: Damn, she is manipulative. At least with John, though she's done it before when she needs him to do something. I do like the continued hinting at a much deeper connection between her and future John. Also, looked like there were a few flickers of deliberate emotion from her again in this episde; when she got up from the bed, she seemed to be deliberately inhaling and exhaling, and when she was remarking that Derek stayed out of the house a lot, she got an annoyed grimace on her face. Also, in the police station, she seemed to be almost....well, I'm not going to say "frantic" because she wasn't, but she seemed about as worried for John as a machine could possibly be.

I'd say she was pretty frantic, considering that it means "marked by fast and nervous, disordered, or anxiety-driven activity". Note that she even left her combat posture. So yeah, I'd say this was a huge "Oh Shit" moment for her. And again, makes me wonder if there is something happening like with SW droids - the longer they are turned on, the faster they develop personalities. A similar thing seems to have happened with Cromartie as well, though to a lesser degree.

[Thanas]

First, for the shrugging off - Arnold wasn't pounded with those armor-piercing rounds Derek mentioned, was he? And for the ambush - it wasn't really a danger to him. He could have stood there indefinitely and fired back.

The sound was slightly unsynchronised when I was viewing this, I must have missed this fact. When did Derek say they were using AP? And where did he get them?

It is never said, but given the fact that they are hunting Terminators, I would suggest they view AP rounds as standard ammo. Also, I assume he got them at the same place where he got the AP rounds in 2x05.

He shrugged it off and continued to fire at Derek and Sarah and if Cameron hadn't shot him then, I have no doubt he would have won that fight.

He looked pretty fucked up and shaky when he was turning to face Cameron.

Really? Because I just reviewed the scene and all I see is a slight cut on his face. His reaction time seems to be the same considering this was done in slow motion. And even after Cameron blasted him two times already, he fired back. With half his face already missing.

Nah, that actually made sense - her playing on his hormones. Unlike in 2x03 where it was pure fan service.

Yeah, it can be justified but the term 'slippery slope' comes to mind. Once they start making up good excuses they open the door to bad ones.

I have faith in the writers.

[charlemagne]

Has he actually officially left the FBI yet? I thought he was just on an enforced 'leave of abscence' to 'recover' from the Cromartie slaughter incident.

That's a good question, but I assumed that he left, because after all he did take an official job with Weaver.

And again, makes me wonder if there is something happening like with SW droids - the longer they are turned on, the faster they develop personalities. A similar thing seems to have happened with Cromartie as well, though to a lesser degree.

Cromartie didn't have as much prolonged contact to humans as Cameron, so I think he just didn't experience as much "thought-provoking" stuff as she did, and he didn't have someone to reflect this experiences with. And besides that, wouldn't Cromartie still have the switch preventing "higher brain function" set to "on"?