T:SCC 2x08: "Mr Ferguson is Ill Today"

[Thanas]

Ghetto edit: Also, it takes five shots for him in the same place to go down.

[Thanas]

Cromartie didn't have as much prolonged contact to humans as Cameron, so I think he just didn't experience as much "thought-provoking" stuff as she did, and he didn't have someone to reflect this experiences with. And besides that, wouldn't Cromartie still have the switch preventing "higher brain function" set to "on"?

Yeah, you're right, I forgot about that.

[Thanas]

Doesn't look like any of the 9mm penetrated at all or did much damage. In fact, this seems to be even less damage than Cameron took when Cromartie shot her in the chest in the pilot episode.

[Crazedwraith]

First, for the shrugging off - Arnold wasn't pounded with those armor-piercing rounds Derek mentioned, was he? And for the ambush - it wasn't really a danger to him. He could have stood there indefinitely and fired back.

The sound was slightly unsynchronised when I was viewing this, I must have missed this fact. When did Derek say they were using AP? And where did he get them?

It is never said, but given the fact that they are hunting Terminators, I would suggest they view AP rounds as standard ammo. Also, I assume he got them at the same place where he got the AP rounds in 2x05.

So to use a technical term you are: 'making it up' and then stating your assertions as fact, to back up your argument. Classy.

The only AP rounds in 2x05 were the funky .50cal rounds for Derek's rifle, which I assume he borrowed from the military stores at the school.

[Thanas]

So to use a technical term you are: 'making it up' and then stating your assertions as fact, to back up your argument. Classy.

I am making an assumption based on prior behaviour of the characters. I was specifically referring to the rounds in Cameron's shotgun, where based on the very similar damage they inflicted they seem to be similar designs. Of course not the same, but AP rounds nonetheless.

So, to summarize: They do have access to AP rounds in the past, the damage effects are similar, so why wouldn't Cameron have used AP?

The only AP rounds in 2x05 were the funky .50cal rounds for Derek's rifle, which I assume he borrowed from the military stores at the school.

No, if you recall they loaded their truck with it before driving to the school.

[Crazedwraith]

No, if you recall they loaded their truck with it before driving to the school.

Really? I don't remember that at all. I will concede the point though.

Still doesn't mean I think Cromartie got the end he deserved. After all his cunning in 'Mousetrap' he goes out when he's doing a bog standard Terminator Rampage and he leaves a bunch of threads untied; like the possible Weaver/Skynet/Cromartie cross purpose conflict.

[Thanas]

Still doesn't mean I think Cromartie got the end he deserved. After all his cunning in 'Mousetrap' he goes out when he's doing a bog standard Terminator Rampage and he leaves a bunch of threads untied; like the possible Weaver/Skynet/Cromartie cross purpose conflict.

I agree. It somehow didn't feel epic enough, although the imagery was great. Plus, I fear we will see more Terminator of the week now that he is gone, which IMO is a bad thing.

[Peptuck]

Still doesn't mean I think Cromartie got the end he deserved. After all his cunning in 'Mousetrap' he goes out when he's doing a bog standard Terminator Rampage and he leaves a bunch of threads untied; like the possible Weaver/Skynet/Cromartie cross purpose conflict.

I agree. It somehow didn't feel epic enough, although the imagery was great. Plus, I fear we will see more Terminator of the week now that he is gone, which IMO is a bad thing.

I'm 99% certain that he's coming back in some way. Next episode promo even shows Cromartie.

[Thanas]

I'm 99% certain that he's coming back in some way. Next episode promo even shows Cromartie.

Thank you for that. It really means much to me, considering I never watch promos of any kind out of fear of being spoiled or having reveals ruined for me.

So people, please use the nice Spoiler

spoiler tags

we got now when discussing future episodes.

That said, with regards to Cromartie:
Spoiler

I bet he is turned over to Weaver by Ellison. Which will mean that he will be restored, but not be Cromartie at all. It'll just be his chassis. His personality is gone with his chip.

[Crazedwraith]

Still doesn't mean I think Cromartie got the end he deserved. After all his cunning in 'Mousetrap' he goes out when he's doing a bog standard Terminator Rampage and he leaves a bunch of threads untied; like the possible Weaver/Skynet/Cromartie cross purpose conflict.

I agree. It somehow didn't feel epic enough, although the imagery was great. Plus, I fear we will see more Terminator of the week now that he is gone, which IMO is a bad thing.

As I can see it it can go two ways:

1) Less action more plot and more characterisation, Hopefully involving the Connors finding about Weaver and her project, either through Ellison, now that they're met up finally or not and eventually bringing them into conflict with Ellison and taking them full circle in that sense.

2) Maintain the level of action, involving many new Terminators and humans both criminals (Sarkisian et al) and Future renegades (Derek's fuck buddy)

I'm hoping for 1. Though the two, I suppose are not mutually exclusive.

[charlemagne]

I think the next couple of episodes will feature less action anyways, because stunts and special effects drain the budget.

[Thanas]

I think the next couple of episodes will feature less action anyways, because stunts and special effects drain the budget.

First, let me say: nice avatar.

I am not so sure about that, though, considering that we are close to episode Nr. 13, which was supposed to be the season finale. So I think we will see plenty of action.

[Drooling Iguana]

Cromartie didn't have as much prolonged contact to humans as Cameron, so I think he just didn't experience as much "thought-provoking" stuff as she did, and he didn't have someone to reflect this experiences with. And besides that, wouldn't Cromartie still have the switch preventing "higher brain function" set to "on"?

Minor point: We don't know if that switch even exists in the SCC continuity. It didn't exist in the theatrical version of T2 and while the show has used the deleted scenes from the extended version as a guide for the chip-removal scenes in the series I don't recall anything that definitively says whether those events actually happened in SCC's backstory.

[charlemagne]

First, let me say: nice avatar.

Thanks, that's our family turtle

I am not so sure about that, though, considering that we are close to episode Nr. 13, which was supposed to be the season finale. So I think we will see plenty of action.

Ok, so they just sticked with the initial plan and slapped the new episodes on after that?

Btw, I wonder if Cameron's sloppiness will be an issue later. Cromartie said she made mistakes... but I wonder if it's because her chip is not in pristine condition, or if it's because of her turning a bit more human because "nobody likes a nag" and all. Maybe she'll have to learn to trigger the "humanity" aspect on and off, just like Data with his emotion chip.

Also, I guess John didn't say one word about Cromartie's visit one episode earlier after all. He deserves a major ass-whopping by the gang because of that.

Minor point: We don't know if that switch even exists in the SCC continuity. It didn't exist in the theatrical version of T2 and while the show has used the deleted scenes from the extended version as a guide for the chip-removal scenes in the series I don't recall anything that definitively says whether those events actually happened in SCC's backstory.

Minor but good point, I forgot that the switch business isn't really canon.

[Thanas]

First, let me say: nice avatar.

Thanks, that's our family turtle

How old is he/she, and of what race?

I am not so sure about that, though, considering that we are close to episode Nr. 13, which was supposed to be the season finale. So I think we will see plenty of action.

Ok, so they just sticked with the initial plan and slapped the new episodes on after that?

Who knows? Obviously they cannot just put the plot on the backburner - it is already written, so they will have to just delve deeper into more stuff. Or write endless filler episodes, which would suck and I don't think they'll go down that route.

Btw, I wonder if Cameron's sloppiness will be an issue later. Cromartie said she made mistakes... but I wonder if it's because her chip is not in pristine condition, or if it's because of her turning a bit more human because "nobody likes a nag" and all. Maybe she'll have to learn to trigger the "humanity" aspect on and off, just like Data with his emotion chip.

That would be a bad idea IMO. Data's emotion chip made him retarded. I do not want that to happen to Cameron. Plus, the whole "trigger humanity" would kinda defeat the purpose of a self-evolving chip anyway.

Also, I guess John didn't say one word about Cromartie's visit one episode earlier after all. He deserves a major ass-whopping by the gang because of that.

Yeah, he does. But I doubt we really will see anything about that - for it would require John or Riley admitting to that. Which I doubt either of them will do.

[charlemagne]

How old is he/she, and of what race?

He's a Greek land tortoise, only 15 years old.

Yeah, he does. But I doubt we really will see anything about that - for it would require John or Riley admitting to that. Which I doubt either of them will do.

Well I can imagine John or even more Riley feeling remorse over this and confessing. It was his direct fault that Cromartie could just stroll in and grab his Mom, I think that should affect him this way - John's not an asshole, just a confused and traumatised teenage boy.

[Mad]

I liked the episode. The cuts were a bit forced at times, yeah, because there weren't really any "revelations" going on, e.g. why and how Derek & Cameron came to Mexico so fast. It didn't cut back and forth between different time frames all the time, so it's not really Pulp Fiction style, but it was ok overall.

Agreed. That was quite the plot hole. I hope they address it in the podcast.

John called Derek before he called Sarah (and got Cromartie), so it makes sense for them to arrive at around the same time.

[charlemagne]

John called Derek before he called Sarah (and got Cromartie), so it makes sense for them to arrive at around the same time.

Yeah, but John just got Derek's voicemail IIRC - he pressed the numbers code for "need help", but did those two numbers also mean "we're stuck in Mexico in the town me and mom used to live way back"? Or was there another phone call I'm forgetting?

[Thanas]

How old is he/she, and of what race?

He's a Greek land tortoise, only 15 years old.

Testudo hermanni? Because there are two species called greek land tortoise.

Yeah, he does. But I doubt we really will see anything about that - for it would require John or Riley admitting to that. Which I doubt either of them will do.

Well I can imagine John or even more Riley feeling remorse over this and confessing. It was his direct fault that Cromartie could just stroll in and grab his Mom, I think that should affect him this way - John's not an asshole, just a confused and traumatised teenage boy.

We'll see. I am not that confident about that, considering that he didn't tell his mother about Cromartie in the first place.

[charlemagne]

Testudo hermanni? Because there are two species called greek land tortoise.

Exactly, testudo hermanni.


One thing that really impressed me in this episode was Sarah's never-dying will to fight. We've seen a lot of this, of course, but in the trunk, she found that empty tin can and was perfectly ready to try and use it to slash at whoever opened that trunk. This woman just won't give up, I like how the writers stick to that without every thinking of changing it.

[Losonti Tokash]

John called Derek before he called Sarah (and got Cromartie), so it makes sense for them to arrive at around the same time.

Yeah, but John just got Derek's voicemail IIRC - he pressed the numbers code for "need help", but did those two numbers also mean "we're stuck in Mexico in the town me and mom used to live way back"? Or was there another phone call I'm forgetting?

Yeah but the number showed up on Derek's cell phone. You know you can google land line phone numbers and get directions to their locations?

[Thanas]

John called Derek before he called Sarah (and got Cromartie), so it makes sense for them to arrive at around the same time.

Yeah, but John just got Derek's voicemail IIRC - he pressed the numbers code for "need help", but did those two numbers also mean "we're stuck in Mexico in the town me and mom used to live way back"? Or was there another phone call I'm forgetting?

Yeah but the number showed up on Derek's cell phone. You know you can google land line phone numbers and get directions to their locations?

Actually, I just rewatched the episode. Derek tries to hide the number from Cameron, who nevertheless manages to get a glimpse at it and then dials it. A mexican police officer then says the name of the police station/jail as a greeting.

[charlemagne]

Yeah but the number showed up on Derek's cell phone. You know you can google land line phone numbers and get directions to their locations?

Ouch fucking hell... I did forget that John didn't use his cell phone but the police station landline. Good, plot hole filled.

[Thanas]

Another observation - how good of a shot is Cameron anyway? She managed to hit the same spot three times despite moving, being shot at, recoil and a moving target. Even the two shots that deviated only did so by centimeters.

[Anguirus]

She is somehow strong/stable enough to ignore the recoil on that gun whilst firing from the hip. I'd imagine that their very nature makes Terminators excellent rifle shots, as they can hold their arms in the exact same position for arbitrarily long periods, and make small adjustments as needed. This wouldn't help as much with a machine pistol on full-auto, naturally, and indeed Terminators seem to use those almost as indiscriminately as anyone else.