Woman killed trying to leave KKK initiation.

[SirNitram]

Link

COVINGTON, La. (AP) — A woman invited to a rural Louisiana campsite for a Ku Klux Klan initiation ritual was shot and killed after she asked to be taken back to town, a sheriff said Tuesday.

Eight people were arrested after authorities found the woman's body hidden under some brush, on the side of a road several miles from the remote campsite where the initiation was planned.

Investigators found weapons, several flags and six Klan robes at the campsite, St. Tammany Parish Sheriff Jack Strain said in a news release.

Strain said the woman, whose identity was not released, was recruited over the Internet to participate in the ritual and then return to her home state of Oklahoma to find other members for the white supremacist group.

But Strain said the group's leader, Raymond "Chuck" Foster, 44, shot and killed the woman Sunday after a fight broke out when she tried to leave. Foster was charged with second-degree murder and is being held without bond.

Capt. George Bonnett, a spokesman for the sheriff's department, said he didn't know what the initiation involved.

"We haven't completely sorted out if they finished the initiation," he said. "I assume that they had started it, but I don't know if they were finished."

Bonnett said he doesn't know if Foster has an attorney. He also said that in three years with the department, this was the first time he had seen a case involving the KKK.

Seven others were charged with obstruction of justice and were held on $500,000 bond at the St. Tammany Parish jail. All eight of the suspects live in neighboring Washington Parish, but Bonnett said he couldn't immediately identify their hometowns.

Authorities said some of the suspects tried to conceal the crime by burning the woman's belongings along with other items at the campsite.

Strain said the woman arrived in the Slidell, Louisiana, area last week and was met by two people connected to the Klan group. She was taken over the weekend to the campsite near Sun, Louisiana, on the banks of the Pearl River. Sun is about 60 miles north of New Orleans.

They never went away. And now they have all news reasons to hate and commit terror.

[ray245]

Is the KKK even allowed in the US today?

[Falkenhayn]

Is the KKK even allowed in the US today?

Unlike a "Militant Democracy" such as exists in German Grundgesetz, America dosen't have a mechanism for banning political parties or hate speech. They are very closely tracked by domestic law enforcement and anti-terrorist agencies, but they are allowed to exist, until their members break or conspire to break the law. Then those members are arrested; the organization remains.

Other avenues exist, though. Morris Dees and the Southern Poverty Law Center aided a hate-crime victim in sueing the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan out of financial existence in civil court.

[Anguirus]

Well they certainly aren't allowed to kill people, nor harass them by burning crosses on lawns. They have the First Amendment right to march peacefully...though in my opinion a "peaceful" KKK march is still conducted with the intent of terrorizing.

[Wicked Pilot]

Sucks that this woman had to die, but you gotta know that when you try to hook up with a violent hateful organization you're playing with fire. In the end I rather it be one of them that gets it, and if it's at their own hands then so the better.

[Darth Wong]

I thought the long-running joke about the KKK was that they were a dead organization and that most of the people at a KKK rally were undercover FBI agents. Does this mean they're gaining in strength? Are the white racists going to drop their pretenses and come right out to admit what they are now?

[Broomstick]

More like there's a certain number of people who were already on the extreme who are now freaking out because a black man won the election and we'll see an uptick in such organizations for a couple years.

No question it's a dying organization but there's still enough life in it to be dangerous. Extremist organizations are hardly limited to the US, they're a problem in a lot of places. Have to agree with Wicked though - while I don't want to see anyone killed I'd rather they eat their own than some innocent.

[JCady]

Murder is murder, but anyone who gets recruited into the Klan in the first place (save, obviously, undercover agents) is most certainly no real loss to humanity. And if it helps bring down this segment of the Klan, then it could even be said that her death was, ultimately, a benefit.

[The Romulan Republic]

I thought the long-running joke about the KKK was that they were a dead organization and that most of the people at a KKK rally were undercover FBI agents. Does this mean they're gaining in strength? Are the white racists going to drop their pretenses and come right out to admit what they are now?

Well combine a war to breed fear of foreigners, and an economic crisis to breed further resentment of "immigrants taking our jobs", with a black President in the White House despite all the racist rhetoric of the McCain campaign designed to stir up these people, and an upswing in popularity for such organizations should hardly suprise anyone.

[Glocksman]

Sucks that this woman had to die, but you gotta know that when you try to hook up with a violent hateful organization you're playing with fire. In the end I rather it be one of them that gets it, and if it's at their own hands then so the better.

True, though the fact that she tried to 'break away' once she realized the truth of what was going on gives her some 'heaven points' in my eyes.

My own experience is that there are a lot of 'casual' racists who on the surface will parrot the bullshit, but if actually confronted with a genuine person who has suffered because it, will fold like a house of cards.

IOW, it's easy to hate blacks, mexicans, or other minorities if you've never had to interact with any of them.
Once you've had to deal with them as individual human beings, it takes a special kind of asshole to hate them as a group.

[JCady]

Sucks that this woman had to die, but you gotta know that when you try to hook up with a violent hateful organization you're playing with fire. In the end I rather it be one of them that gets it, and if it's at their own hands then so the better.

True, though the fact that she tried to 'break away' once she realized the truth of what was going on gives her some 'heaven points' in my eyes.

True, but getting cold feet when you realize how truly murderous the Klan is doesn't necessarily mean that you're any less racist either -- just not as fanatical about that racism.

[starslayer]

I thought the long-running joke about the KKK was that they were a dead organization and that most of the people at a KKK rally were undercover FBI agents. Does this mean they're gaining in strength? Are the white racists going to drop their pretenses and come right out to admit what they are now?

As I understand it, there have been three iterations of the KKK. The first was formed right after the Civil War, was soon declared an illegal terrorist organization (see the Force Acts), and eliminated. The second started a few decades later, and became the most popular and well-known iteration, with the familiar white hoods, cloaks, and pointy hats. They were also responsible for the film The Birth of a Nation. They fell into relative obscurity, and were forced to disband in 1944 by the IRS. The third and final iteration persists today; there is no one "true" KKK as it were. There are only many separate organizations that all use the name, and communicate somewhat, but have very low membership (a few thousand at most in total).

So, to answer your question, no, I doubt it. As others have said, we'll likely see an uptick in membership for a few years, and then they'll go back to fading away. And since membership in the Klan is secret, the fanatical racists aren't going to come out any more than they already have.

[SirNitram]

I thought the long-running joke about the KKK was that they were a dead organization and that most of the people at a KKK rally were undercover FBI agents. Does this mean they're gaining in strength? Are the white racists going to drop their pretenses and come right out to admit what they are now?

That joke was probably true a decade or so ago, but there's been articles on the rekindling of the whole shebang of racial terror groups. Obvious consequence of the politics recently here.

[JCady]

I thought the long-running joke about the KKK was that they were a dead organization and that most of the people at a KKK rally were undercover FBI agents. Does this mean they're gaining in strength? Are the white racists going to drop their pretenses and come right out to admit what they are now?

As I understand it, there have been three iterations of the KKK. The first was formed right after the Civil War, was soon declared an illegal terrorist organization (see the Force Acts), and eliminated. The second started a few decades later, and became the most popular and well-known iteration, with the familiar white hoods, cloaks, and pointy hats. They were also responsible for the film The Birth of a Nation. They fell into relative obscurity, and were forced to disband in 1944 by the IRS. The third and final iteration persists today; there is no one "true" KKK as it were. There are only many separate organizations that all use the name, and communicate somewhat, but have very low membership (a few thousand at most in total).

So, to answer your question, no, I doubt it. As others have said, we'll likely see an uptick in membership for a few years, and then they'll go back to fading away. And since membership in the Klan is secret, the fanatical racists aren't going to come out any more than they already have.

Yep, that's a fairly accurate summary. The primary difference is that the first and second iterations of the KKK were centralized organizations which operated openly and could thus be legally decapitated, whereas the third iteration is a secretive, decentralized, cell-based domestic terror outfit.

[Strider]

Murder is murder, but anyone who gets recruited into the Klan in the first place (save, obviously, undercover agents) is most certainly no real loss to humanity. And if it helps bring down this segment of the Klan, then it could even be said that her death was, ultimately, a benefit.

I think this sentiment is pretty damn cold, especially considering we don't really know any of the specifics of why she was convinced to go to the meeting in the first place or why she ultimately changed her mind. In fact, I think it was brave to resist right there in the middle of all that, putting herself in (retrospectively, obvious) mortal danger. People don't always do the right thing, but it counts if they do the right thing when it matters.

[JCady]

Murder is murder, but anyone who gets recruited into the Klan in the first place (save, obviously, undercover agents) is most certainly no real loss to humanity. And if it helps bring down this segment of the Klan, then it could even be said that her death was, ultimately, a benefit.

I think this sentiment is pretty damn cold, especially considering we don't really know any of the specifics of why she was convinced to go to the meeting in the first place or why she ultimately changed her mind. In fact, I think it was brave to resist right there in the middle of all that, putting herself in (retrospectively, obvious) mortal danger. People don't always do the right thing, but it counts if they do the right thing when it matters.

She was recruited into the Klan over the Internet and travelled from Oklahoma to Louisiana for the specific purpose of being formally initiated into the Klan. There is no possible way she is a good person.

[rhoenix]

She was recruited into the Klan over the Internet and travelled from Oklahoma to Louisiana for the specific purpose of being formally initiated into the Klan. There is no possible way she is a good person.

This is an entirely subjective conclusion. Besides, despite being involved with the KKK undeniably, she also (for whatever reason - we will never know) said no at some point, and wanted to go home, which is a point I suspect you're whitewashing over.

Good people can believe bad things - their actions are a better indicator.

[The Romulan Republic]

She was recruited into the Klan over the Internet and travelled from Oklahoma to Louisiana for the specific purpose of being formally initiated into the Klan. There is no possible way she is a good person.

It would be conveniant if we could totally dismiss another human being's life based just on knowledge of one horrendously bad decision they made at its end.

[mr friendly guy]

I remember once flicking through the television channels and I saw Ricki Lake doing a summary of her best shows. One of these was about a white teenager who wanted to join the KKK. The reason, she wanted some friends (I gathered she had trouble making friends). After a lot of heckling from the crowd she said something along the lines that maybe she should join an organisation for people, rather than one for white people.

If the woman in the article went to the KKK because she was racist, I can't really feel that much sympathy. If she went there because she was stupid, like that teenager on Ricki Lake, my sympathy metre goes up a bit. But not much. Even if this woman is barely an adult, I expect them to know better than to associated with a racist organisation which has a history of violence.

[Vendetta]

It's not just "one bad decision" though, is it?

It's the culmination of a lifestyle based on race fear and hatred. In order to have ever considered that going to a formal Klan initiation was a good idea, one would already have to be a hatemongering shit of a person.

[The Romulan Republic]

It's not just "one bad decision" though, is it?

It's the culmination of a lifestyle based on race fear and hatred. In order to have ever considered that going to a formal Klan initiation was a good idea, one would already have to be a hatemongering shit of a person.

Or they could be brought up in an environment where this is what they're taught by their friends and family every day, and where they face ostracization (or in this case death) for not sharing those views.

Maybe this person was just racist scum. But considering how little we know about this case or why she went their, I for one will not jump to conclusions.

[SilverWingedSeraph]

Some people are goddamn stupid. Some people don't think before they act. And some are risen in hateful and divisive atmospheres and are raised thinking a certain way, and that can be very hard to overcome. We don't know this woman's situation, and saying that she deserved to die, or that her death is somehow okay, or no big deal, that's sickening. She tried to leave the initiation for who knows what reason, and they murdered her for it. Does anyone honestly think "oh well no great loss"? Jesus.

I'm not going to argue she was a good person. I mean, going to join the KKK in the first place, you must have your own fair share of being a fucked up piece of shit. But how the fuck does that make her death okay in any way?

[Vendetta]

Or they could be brought up in an environment where this is what they're taught by their friends and family every day, and where they face ostracization (or in this case death) for not sharing those views.

Maybe this person was just racist scum. But considering how little we know about this case or why she went their, I for one will not jump to conclusions.

So being a hatemongering shit is OK if you grew up in a society of hatemongering shits?

No, fuck off.

Unless there's a level of extreme indoctrination going on here, sufficient to completely override any form of decision making on the part of this woman, she died because she led a lifestyle of hate and fear, and the irony that she died because of her fellow human shit not the people she had been taught to hate and fear is at the very least grimly satisfying.

The world is objectively a better place without a person who would consider joining an organisation like the KKK in it, it contains at least one fuckbag's worth less hateful fearmongering than it did a few days ago.

[mr friendly guy]

I don't think any one here is excusing murder, but as to people not being outraged, or even happy that a racist is gone, meh, I can't work up any tears.

Now if she turns up to be some undercover agent then my view would change, however based on the information, she was either racist or stupid. Frankly, one less racist is a good thing. I would even consider it poetic that she was offed by her own fellow racists.

[The Romulan Republic]

So being a hatemongering shit is OK if you grew up in a society of hatemongering shits?

No, but it does mean you may be less of an irredeemable piece of filth. And I never said it was ok. I though straw men were considered a fallacy?

No, fuck off.

The sentiment is shared, sir.

Unless there's a level of extreme indoctrination going on here, sufficient to completely override any form of decision making on the part of this woman, she died because she led a lifestyle of hate and fear, and the irony that she died because of her fellow human shit not the people she had been taught to hate and fear is at the very least grimly satisfying.

Them's some pretty big stones for a guy living in a glass house. You're the one taking satisfaction in a human being's death, by your own admission.

The world is objectively a better place without a person who would consider joining an organisation like the KKK in it, it contains at least one fuckbag's worth less hateful fearmongering than it did a few days ago.[/quote]

Really? I'd think her death, apparently for trying to leave, will make it less likely that people in racist communities will stand up against these people in the future. What is murder if not a source of further hate and fear? What will spreading fear of speaking out serve?