Games with good stories

[Erik von Nein]

The 'would you kindly' scene is also effective, though for different reasons.

Why? I keep hearing this from people, but I still think it's one of the most story-breaking moments in the entire game. It completely invalidates everything the player's done and makes Atlas's entire character stupidly pointless. Why does he go on with this charade if he can force you to do whatever you want? The whole scene with Ryan "would you kindly"-ing himself to death shows that there is no motivation for Atlas to maintain any kind of front.

It's especially terrible once Atlas reveals himself to be a cackling maniac, instead of someone driven to the edge from a protracted war between genetically-modified, bat-shit insane people.

[General Zod]

The 'would you kindly' scene is also effective, though for different reasons.

Why? I keep hearing this from people, but I still think it's one of the most story-breaking moments in the entire game. It completely invalidates everything the player's done and makes Atlas's entire character stupidly pointless. Why does he go on with this charade if he can force you to do whatever you want? The whole scene with Ryan "would you kindly"-ing himself to death shows that there is no motivation for Atlas to maintain any kind of front.

It's especially terrible once Atlas reveals himself to be a cackling maniac, instead of someone driven to the edge from a protracted war between genetically-modified, bat-shit insane people.

He starts trying to actively fight Atlas' control once he realizes that he is, in fact, being controlled. It was probably easier to make him cooperate willingly with gentle nudging than to brute force his way through the whole thing because of that.

[Erik von Nein]

He starts trying to actively fight Atlas' control once he realizes that he is, in fact, being controlled. It was probably easier to make him cooperate willingly with gentle nudging than to brute force his way through the whole thing because of that.

Yeah, except the scene with Ryan showed it didn't matter. That's my problem with the whole thing. Ryan made the character run around like a dog. Don't tell me he wanted to be doing that.

Also, when did he fight the brain-washing? I didn't see him do it. Especially not when Ryan was ordering him around like mad. The only time "would you kindly" didn't work was when Shuschong (sp?) removed anyone's ability to use it (or the brain-washing itself, however that worked).

I mean, the build up and the conclusion was well executed, but it's style doesn't make up for what was lost for the story.

[Ford Prefect]

The 'would you kindly' scene is also effective, though for different reasons.

Why?

Primarily the execution of it reminds you how you've essentially been a slave to the game developers; there is never really any 'choice' in most* video games at the most fundamental level and this is rarely questioned. To get to that point in the game you would have done every inane thing that 'Atlas' has asked of you. You're presented with a task or goal and you work towards achieving that goal. I very much doubt that players that played through to that ever really thought about refusing Atlas. It goes beyond that. When I was playing Half-Life 2, I never once considered refusing any order given to me by anyone, except where I was asked to throw a can into the bin. In the latter instance, you are able to refuse the faceless goon, but this choice is just an illusion. Either way, you are doing what the developers want - you are either throwing the can in the bin or you are not. It's actually a pretty ballsy piece of commentary on game design and blind obedience (which is some sort of recursive, vicious cycle irony given we're talking about Bioshock ).

This is probably an accidental result, mind.

*There are exceptions, obviously. STRAK has that love affair going on with Space Rangers and he assures us that The Witcher is similar. However, I'm trying to get all post-modern pretentious so excuse me.

[Vendetta]

Yeah, except the scene with Ryan showed it didn't matter. That's my problem with the whole thing. Ryan made the character run around like a dog. Don't tell me he wanted to be doing that.

Ryan gives a set of very short specific instructions. Atlas isn't in a position to do that, so he has to give general ones and let the character do the rest (especially when he can't guarantee contact with the player, eg. in Fort Frolic). Also, Atlas/Fontaine is an inveterate conman, so there's nothing more natural to him than emotional manipulation.

[Erik von Nein]

It's actually a pretty ballsy piece of commentary on game design and blind obedience (which is some sort of recursive, vicious cycle irony given we're talking about Bioshock ).

This is probably an accidental result, mind.

I can see where they were going with it and I can appreciate it. Taken by itself it's a good take on the complete lack of player choice (which, yeah, is ironic considering how much they hype the moral choices before the game came out). I suppose I would have been much more satisfied if Atlas didn't become such a one-dimensional villain immediately afterward.

Ryan gives a set of very short specific instructions. Atlas isn't in a position to do that, so he has to give general ones and let the character do the rest (especially when he can't guarantee contact with the player, eg. in Fort Frolic).

I don't really see how that refutes my point. There were no signs of the character fighting the control. Otherwise we're just assuming an ability out of nowhere.

Also, Atlas/Fontaine is an inveterate conman, so there's nothing more natural to him than emotional manipulation.

Yeah, but it's all so pointless. It turned someone who seemed driven to the point of breaking into a cackling, one-dimensional villain in one fell swoop. Saying he's emotionally manipulative only works when he wasn't in complete control over a situation, but the main character was brain-washed. I mean, immediately following you leaving Schushong's little den he tries to command the character to commit suicide. Hell, he got the character to hijack the freakin' plane and crash it into the ocean, killing dozens of innocents, in the beginning of the game with nothing but a note. I can't imagine that was something the character wanted to do, and, if it were, then there's still no point in making up a family or all the other convoluted non-sense since he'd happily murder anyone when commanded.

[Setzer]

I liked the way BIoshock presented its story. You get a rough idea of what's going on, but the gritty details are for you to discover for yourself. I can't help but feel if the makers of MGS or Final Fantasy had made Bioshock, you'd be watching most of the game instead of playing it.

And as for Arthas: Even though killing his father to take the throne is supposed to be the ultimate sign of his corruption, it seemed like something he would do anyway. He really didn't change any as a character. We didn't really see his fall, how he gradually compromised his ideals until he was no better then the monsters he fought. One of the first missions you play involves butchering an infected town, with maybe two seconds of deliberation.

[Manus Celer Dei]

The Legacy of Kain games had an excellent plot, Blood Omen 2 aside, although it didn't make complete sense until Defiance. What's really impressive about how well everything ties together is that first two games were meant to be stand-alone games .

[Vendetta]

It's just a pity that everything else about Legacy of Kain was shit, only the first Soul Reaver was any good at all, and that was only about half a game because they ran out of time and had to release something.

[Vendetta]

I liked the way BIoshock presented its story. You get a rough idea of what's going on, but the gritty details are for you to discover for yourself. I can't help but feel if the makers of MGS or Final Fantasy had made Bioshock, you'd be watching most of the game instead of playing it.

Well, the whole "you as a player have no free will, watch how I make you dance" thing was MGS2's shtick. However, MGS2 was obtuse and crushingly pretentious, and treated interactivity as a necessary evil at the best of times, so it didn't really come out so well.