Transgender Woman Murdered [UPDATED]

[ray245]

I thought we should limit this stories to the off-topic section. The previous thread did discuss the issue of Tansexuals well enough.

[Kamakazie Sith]

http://www.aurorasentinel.com/articles/ ... 189587.txt

Naturally, the police are insisting that it "must have been" suicide. Because no one ever murders trans women, and even if they did. . . well, they're perverts who deserve it anyhow.

I sympathize with the struggles that you and others have to endure, but you need to remain objective. You seem a bit hot headed when it comes to these issues, and it clouds your objectivity.

First. Where exactly in the article did the police say that she deserved it or even implied that? Second, the police aren't saying "It must have been suicide" they are saying that "the evidence in the case points to suicide". Now since they haven't released the details of that evidence then layman are even more unqualified to conclude murder.

Furthermore, suicide is the likely possibility because the police, and the medical examiner are leaning in that direction due to the evidence. What evidence have you seen besides opinion that leads you to believe she was murdered, and what evidence do you have that the police and the medical examiner are lying?

[Admiral Valdemar]

This isn't major news, however tragic, and we do already have a large discussion around here on this particular topic. I'm merging this with the thread previously created rather than shunt it to OT.

[Alyrium Denryle]

First. Where exactly in the article did the police say that she deserved it or even implied that? Second, the police aren't saying "It must have been suicide" they are saying that "the evidence in the case points to suicide". Now since they haven't released the details of that evidence then layman are even more unqualified to conclude murder.

Furthermore, suicide is the likely possibility because the police, and the medical examiner are leaning in that direction due to the evidence. What evidence have you seen besides opinion that leads you to believe she was murdered, and what evidence do you have that the police and the medical examiner are lying?

Broken furniture, lack of depression, good outlook on life. You know, things that make someone a low suicide risk? Do those count?

I have seen this happen before with a guy I knew in HS. Kinda hard to kill yourself when strapped to a chair with plastic wrap taped around your head(as I recall)... Fuck, if I could remember his last name...

[JCady]

http://www.aurorasentinel.com/articles/ ... 189587.txt

Naturally, the police are insisting that it "must have been" suicide. Because no one ever murders trans women, and even if they did. . . well, they're perverts who deserve it anyhow.

I sympathize with the struggles that you and others have to endure, but you need to remain objective. You seem a bit hot headed when it comes to these issues, and it clouds your objectivity.

First. Where exactly in the article did the police say that she deserved it or even implied that? Second, the police aren't saying "It must have been suicide" they are saying that "the evidence in the case points to suicide". Now since they haven't released the details of that evidence then layman are even more unqualified to conclude murder.

Furthermore, suicide is the likely possibility because the police, and the medical examiner are leaning in that direction due to the evidence. What evidence have you seen besides opinion that leads you to believe she was murdered, and what evidence do you have that the police and the medical examiner are lying?

Your blind puppy-dog loyalty towards the police is more annoying than endearing, you know.

Let me make it perfectly clear. For a transsexual woman in modern-day America, the police are the enemy. Whenever you interact with them, you will be verbally if not physically abused. If you cannot pass they will assume you are a whore, and they will treat you like one even if they can't "prove" it. If they have the slightest excuse to arrest you, they will. If you are assaulted, they will side with the attacker if they can, or walk away if they can't. If you are raped, they will let the rapist off the hook because he's "obviously" a fine upstanding citizen and you're a sick pervert. If you are murdered, they will refuse to gather evidence and then dump the case for lack of evidence.

The only difference between a good cop and a bad cop is that the good cop will "only" stand back and watch while the bad cop beats you up. But he's never ever going to help you even if he knows it's the right thing to do, because a "brother cop" comes first, period.

That is the reality I have to live in.

[JCady]

Do note that as a California emergency medical technician, I work with local law enforcement on a regular basis. Several of my friends are police officers; the man who taught me to shoot was a Sheriff's Department deputy. I have the utmost professional respect for law enforcement officers, and I'm quite aware that the majority of them are honest, sincere, hard-working men and women.

But, none of that changes the fact that American police as a whole have a proven track record of both directly and indirectly perpetrating the most vile and horrific abuses against transgender Americans, especially male-to-female transsexuals. In other words, they are honest, sincere, hard-working, and tremendously transphobic. . . and they see no contradiction in that. In fact, most of them probably define being transphobic as a necessary element of being a fine, upstanding citizen.

[Ender]

Emotional ravings aside, do you have any proof that actually counters KS' points? I also don't see where they said the crime was deserved, nor does a search turn up any returns indicating that the police are disregarding, say, the coroner's report indicating it was not a suicide.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Everything she's said is accepted as being true in the transgendered community based on the number of people who have reported being victims of police brutality in it, but studies aren't easily quantifiable, since we're not exactly a community with the resources to bring suit or the history of trust to report problems.

It's one of those things where I know what she's saying is true, and she knows it is true, but it can't be proved, so it can't be argued. We just live with that threat, day in and day out, and nervously hope it doesn't strike us. I'm luckier than most, true, insomuch as I've only been detained without cause by the police once.

[Ender]

Everything she's said is accepted as being true in the transgendered community based on the number of people who have reported being victims of police brutality in it, but studies aren't easily quantifiable, since we're not exactly a community with the resources to bring suit or the history of trust to report problems.

It's one of those things where I know what she's saying is true, and she knows it is true, but it can't be proved, so it can't be argued. We just live with that threat, day in and day out, and nervously hope it doesn't strike us. I'm luckier than most, true, insomuch as I've only been detained without cause by the police once.

I should not need to point out that accepted as true is very different from being true. It was at one point accepted as true that the earth was flat. Again, is there any actual proof to verify the claims JC has put forth?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Everything she's said is accepted as being true in the transgendered community based on the number of people who have reported being victims of police brutality in it, but studies aren't easily quantifiable, since we're not exactly a community with the resources to bring suit or the history of trust to report problems.

It's one of those things where I know what she's saying is true, and she knows it is true, but it can't be proved, so it can't be argued. We just live with that threat, day in and day out, and nervously hope it doesn't strike us. I'm luckier than most, true, insomuch as I've only been detained without cause by the police once.

I should not need to point out that accepted as true is very different from being true. It was at one point accepted as true that the earth was flat. Again, is there any actual proof to verify the claims JC has put forth?

There is this Amnesty USA report, to quote:

That transgender individuals, particularly women and young people, bear the disproportionate brunt of police brutality against LGBT people is among the AI report's key conclusions. The AI report also found that within the LGBT community, people of color, youth, the homeless and immigrants are at greater risk of police abuse. AIUSA Executive Director Dr. William F. Schulz commented at the Sept. 22 Stonewalled press conference in New York City, "Transgender individuals, people of color and the young suffer disproportionately, especially when poverty leaves them vulnerable to homelessness and exploitation and less likely to draw public outcry or official scrutiny. It is a sorry state of affairs when the police misuse their power to inflict suffering rather than prevent it."

Anyway, I won't try to argue this--please don't even respond to me, insomuch as I entered this consider it already conceded. I will go on carrying about my life in the way I must--with the basic assumption that the police are my mortal enemies who must be avoided at all costs--and you can do whatever you please as well.

This isn't something a debate can resolve, Ender. It's a fact of life for us but one that little research has been done into and so we can provide little of the factual support demanded for it here. That's why I don't want to get into an argument--and why even though I won't bring the issue up (and I'm frankly irritated Jacie brought it up at all, because we didn't need more drama and that's all this is) again--I obviously am never going to change my views on the subject because I know through the personal experience of my friends (and to a mercifully lesser extent myself) that it's true. I do what is necessary to stay alive, as does Jacie, and that's all that matters to us.

[Ender]

This isn't something a debate can resolve, Ender.

Um, yes, it can. JC made the accusation that the police are covering up a murder. That is a criminal offense. Courts exist for the express purpose of resolving whether a crime has been committed through debate and citation of evidence. This is not a court, but the same principles hold. A specific accusation against specific individuals has been made. The insistence that, without proof, you are still right and that you refuse to debate it is contrary to the rules of the board.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Okay, Shep, can it, before I dropkick this into HoS for an encore performance. We can do without your flamebaiting here for one night.

We're in the habit of proving things with empirical evidence, so I'm afraid gut feelings are verboten here. If the police are covering something up, someone has to prove that. I don't give a shit what anecdotes one can pull out, it doesn't hold water here.

[JCady]

Is it true that police brutality in general is perpetrated only by a small number of "bad cops" and that the majority of police frown severely upon such unprofessional conduct? Absolutely so. Is it fair to treat all police as the enemy because you can't tell the good from the bad? Probably not. But fair is not the same thing as reasonable, and I would assert that it is perfectly reasonable for me to take measures necessary to ensure my own personal safety.

In a way, that's the price the police pay for solidiarity. When they invoke the "Blue Code of Silence" and handle discipline strictly internally, the public perception is inevitably going to be that bad cops can get away with anything because good cops still put brotherhood before justice. When they insist on keeping all of their dirty laundry in-house, we have no way of knowing whether they've cleaned it up or whether they're just stuffing it under the bed.

When the only response to a hotheaded young officer being unnecessarily rough when arresting a trans girl is for a seasoned veteran to take him aside and quietly tell him that he was out of line and that he'd better shape up if he wants to keep his job. . . that may be a "win" for the department in terms of preventing a repeat incident by that officer, but it's a great big "lose" in terms of repairing the damage to the police department's reputation with the transgender community. Because as far as we know, you just gave him a pat on the back and sent him back out on the streets to do it again.

It doesn't take many hotheaded young officers like that to convince the transgender community as a whole to decide that it cannot risk trusting the cops. Not that every cop is bad, but that we're not going to stick our necks out and hope we win the "good cop, bad cop" roulette. And unless the police start taking proactive measures to demonstrate -- not just claim, unequivocally demonstrate -- that they are serious about cracking down on bigotry within their own ranks, that is never going to change.

[JCady]

This isn't something a debate can resolve, Ender.

Um, yes, it can. JC made the accusation that the police are covering up a murder. That is a criminal offense. Courts exist for the express purpose of resolving whether a crime has been committed through debate and citation of evidence. This is not a court, but the same principles hold. A specific accusation against specific individuals has been made. The insistence that, without proof, you are still right and that you refuse to debate it is contrary to the rules of the board.

I didn't say the police were covering up the murder. I said it's very unlikely that the police will do a fair investigation because their sympathies lie with the likely perpetrators than with the victim, and because the victim belongs to a group which mainstream society insists that it is acceptable and even desirable to discriminate against.

[Alyrium Denryle]

This isn't something a debate can resolve, Ender.

Um, yes, it can. JC made the accusation that the police are covering up a murder. That is a criminal offense. Courts exist for the express purpose of resolving whether a crime has been committed through debate and citation of evidence. This is not a court, but the same principles hold. A specific accusation against specific individuals has been made. The insistence that, without proof, you are still right and that you refuse to debate it is contrary to the rules of the board.

Look, she knows a lot of transsexual people. So do I, so does JC. We know from personal experience and the experience of those we know that police are often less than enthusiastic about investigating hate crimes against transsexuals or disciplining those in their own ranks that mistreat them. Are stats collected? No. No one has done the research. Why? Funding problems, and lack of motivation. Can you imagine going before the NSF or NIH and trying to get funds to do a national study on abuse by police of transsexuals? No one would fund that, for the same reason no one funds research into the rates of rape by US servicemen in Iraq or Afghanistan. It is not considered worthy of research, or is politically...a box no one wants to open.

No one reports it when it does happen for fear of retribution. But if we look at other statistics on things like HIV infection, rates of general (never specified) hate crimes, joblessness etc, every other social institution fails the transgendered. It is not unreasonable that the police also do (namely, miserably fail transsexuals).

Does that necessarily mean that this is the case in either of these instances? No. But it is reasonable to think that it might be.

This is not a matter of something that is taken to be true but isnt, like the earth being flat. It is something that they experience on a daily basis that no one collects numbers for.

Though....Amnesty International Has a Few Examples

[The Duchess of Zeon]

This isn't something a debate can resolve, Ender.

Um, yes, it can. JC made the accusation that the police are covering up a murder. That is a criminal offense. Courts exist for the express purpose of resolving whether a crime has been committed through debate and citation of evidence. This is not a court, but the same principles hold. A specific accusation against specific individuals has been made. The insistence that, without proof, you are still right and that you refuse to debate it is contrary to the rules of the board.

None of my comments had anything to do with the murder, but rather Jacie's general claims of police brutality against transwomen, so this is a massive red herring.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Okay, Shep, can it, before I dropkick this into HoS for an encore performance. We can do without your flamebaiting here for one night.

We're in the habit of proving things with empirical evidence, so I'm afraid gut feelings are verboten here. If the police are covering something up, someone has to prove that. I don't give a shit what anecdotes one can pull out, it doesn't hold water here.

I am not at all disputing that Jacie's insistence that the woman in question was murdered is an unreasonable and unsupported one. I however have empirical evidence of general police brutality against transwomen--my personal experiences and those of other transwomen I know, to be precise. Since I cannot however source those, I stated them and then immediately stated that I wouldn't attempt to debate it. That said I did provide, for information, a press release about an Amnesty International article which might provide some detailed summaries, at least, but even though I could have used that as proof for the debate, I decided there was no point in maintaining this acrimonious issue and stated I wouldn't contest it, and I stand by that. But it's hardly gut feelings in terms of the issue of police abuse of transwomen. However, it is certainly gut feelings in the specific case of Jacie's claims and I therefore have made no attempt whatsoever to defend them, a point which seems lost on, well, Shep in principle but also Ender, whom I hope now understands the thrust of what I'm saying, at least, and that we can therefore leave it at that.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Your blind puppy-dog loyalty towards the police is more annoying than endearing, you know.

If you say so.

Let me make it perfectly clear. For a transsexual woman in modern-day America, the police are the enemy. Whenever you interact with them, you will be verbally if not physically abused. If you cannot pass they will assume you are a whore, and they will treat you like one even if they can't "prove" it. If they have the slightest excuse to arrest you, they will. If you are assaulted, they will side with the attacker if they can, or walk away if they can't. If you are raped, they will let the rapist off the hook because he's "obviously" a fine upstanding citizen and you're a sick pervert. If you are murdered, they will refuse to gather evidence and then dump the case for lack of evidence.

Okay. Let me ask you a question though. In this thread you stated that many transexual people must resort to prostitution in order to survive because many employers will outright fire anyone that they discover is a transexual. Now, if that is the case then isn't it likely that many transexual people will have negative encounters with police because they are in fact breaking the law. Did I misunderstand you?

The only difference between a good cop and a bad cop is that the good cop will "only" stand back and watch while the bad cop beats you up. But he's never ever going to help you even if he knows it's the right thing to do, because a "brother cop" comes first, period.

That is the reality I have to live in.

If you say so.

[Kamakazie Sith]

This isn't something a debate can resolve, Ender.

Um, yes, it can. JC made the accusation that the police are covering up a murder. That is a criminal offense. Courts exist for the express purpose of resolving whether a crime has been committed through debate and citation of evidence. This is not a court, but the same principles hold. A specific accusation against specific individuals has been made. The insistence that, without proof, you are still right and that you refuse to debate it is contrary to the rules of the board.

I didn't say the police were covering up the murder. I said it's very unlikely that the police will do a fair investigation because their sympathies lie with the likely perpetrators than with the victim, and because the victim belongs to a group which mainstream society insists that it is acceptable and even desirable to discriminate against.

So, you're saying the only way you'd believe the police is if their conclusion was shared by the friends and family of the victim? Though keep in mind in this latest incident you're also not trusting the medical examiner. Do medical examiners share the same phobia as police?

[The Yosemite Bear]

Is there any chance of getting the county or state cops to investigate?

I believe the appropreate charge is "Denile of Civil Rights" there's a nice FEDERAL police force that has a tendancy in decades past to investigate that in cases of hate crimes perpetuated by police, up to most recently a pair of New Orleans vice cops that murdered a black woman for testifing against them in a brutality case, back in the 1990s.

[Big Orange]

Some of the most sociopathic and reactionary people I've come across were usually unshakably vicious homophobes, so obviously they would ignorantly go down hard on young males with gender disorders, and cumbuckets like that are attracted to positions of authority like the police. It is as simple as that.

[Ender]

I didn't say the police were covering up the murder. I said it's very unlikely that the police will do a fair investigation because their sympathies lie with the likely perpetrators than with the victim, and because the victim belongs to a group which mainstream society insists that it is acceptable and even desirable to discriminate against.

Refusing to investigate a crime is covering it up, and a criminal offense. US vs Cecil Price et al provides a good example of that (Though Rainey and some of the conspirators were acquitted their actions were still crimes).

Now you have accused the police here of a crime. Let us see some real proof.

None of my comments had anything to do with the murder, but rather Jacie's general claims of police brutality against transwomen, so this is a massive red herring.

You are defending her claims, which were specific to this event, not general as you claim.

I am not at all disputing that Jacie's insistence that the woman in question was murdered is an unreasonable and unsupported one. I however have empirical evidence of general police brutality against transwomen--my personal experiences and those of other transwomen I know, to be precise. Since I cannot however source those, I stated them and then immediately stated that I wouldn't attempt to debate it. That said I did provide, for information, a press release about an Amnesty International article which might provide some detailed summaries, at least, but even though I could have used that as proof for the debate, I decided there was no point in maintaining this acrimonious issue and stated I wouldn't contest it, and I stand by that. But it's hardly gut feelings in terms of the issue of police abuse of transwomen. However, it is certainly gut feelings in the specific case of Jacie's claims and I therefore have made no attempt whatsoever to defend them, a point which seems lost on, well, Shep in principle but also Ender, whom I hope now understands the thrust of what I'm saying, at least, and that we can therefore leave it at that.

No, I got exactly what you were saying. But "I can't prove it and won't debate it, but I'm still right!" is nonsense that goes against the ideas this place tries to uphold, and you are rather fond of that tactic of late. So yes, I'm calling you out on it.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

You are defending her claims, which were specific to this event, not general as you claim.

No, I'm not. Transwomen getting picked up for prostitution with no evidence and being released the next day while being insulted and humiliated in custody is what I'm thinking of. Accusing the police of actively denying murders is something else entirely; I've seen plenty of proof that the police do at least take that seriously and that police detectives have seriously investigated the murders of transwomen and even shown considerable respect in many parts of the country.

But "I can't prove it and won't debate it, but I'm still right!" is nonsense that goes against the ideas this place tries to uphold, and you are rather fond of that tactic of late. So yes, I'm calling you out on it.

*shrug*

I am not going to place myself in the line of personal humiliation because you want to win an argument on a message board. I don't go out after dark because I know if I was ever asked for ID by an officer while out walking that they'd book me for prostitution the moment they saw the M that's still on the driver's license even though I was doing nothing wrong. And there is certainly enough evidence for that attitude: Like this article, for instance

Transgender Women Criticize Police Treatment
Run Date: 11/17/05
By Justine Nicholas
WeNews correspondent

Nov. 20 is Transgender Remembrance Day, when individuals and groups worldwide honor those who have been killed as a result of prejudice. A recent report finds that despite hate-crime laws, police officers often mistreat transgender women.

Mariah Lopez police Sgt. Bret Parson

New York (WOMENSENEWS)--Maria Lopez heard catcalls and whistles from police officers. They stopped her, demanded ID and ordered her to a police van. There, they strip-searched her.

One officer "accidentally" brushed against her genitals and breasts while handcuffing her.

Lopez, a 20-year-old transgender woman from Queens, N.Y., was arrested on April 24 for loitering. Since the Sept. 11 attacks four years ago, she said, police have been interpreting the anti-loitering law very broadly. They often profile transgender women as sex workers and target areas such as the Village, where Lopez, an HIV-AIDS educator and activist, was waiting for a bus that April afternoon.

When Lopez, who has had several encounters with police, was booked into Riker's Island her medical intake examination was done in front of 20 male corrections officers, she said.

None of this, she emphasized, took place on a dark, remote country road. Her harassment by police began on a street in New York's Greenwich Village "in the middle of the afternoon, in broad daylight, while I was waiting for a bus."

Lopez related the incident at an Amnesty International-USA press conference in September, when the Washington, D.C.-based human rights group released an 11-page report on police misconduct and abuse against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people. The report included summaries of 23 testimonies from transgender women in New York City who described mistreatment by law enforcement officials.

Lopez--a counselor at People Of Color In Crisis, Inc., which helps homeless and HIV-infected minorities in New York City--said at the press conference she has met other transgender women who have been stopped, searched and detained on phony allegations.

They were subjected to taunts about their sexuality and their transgender identity. Police threatened some with violence, or even death, she said.

A spokesperson for the New York Police Department said that the department treats all people equally, but could not respond immediately on Wednesday with details on what policies the department has in place or to the Amnesty report. Women's eNews will update the story if the department replies at a later date.
A Day to End Transgender Violence

Every November, marches, candlelight vigils and other events around the world mark Transgender Remembrance Day aimed at ending the violence against transgender people.

Several transgender-related organizations "black out" their Web sites on that day, which began in response to the killing of Rita Hester on Nov. 28, 1998 in San Francisco, seven weeks after college student Matthew Shepard's hate-based murder in Wyoming.

The case of Hester's murder has not been solved, like 92 percent of the 3,068 killings worldwide during the past 30 years based on fear, hatred or bias against transgender people, as reported to Interpol.

Organizers of this year's events are calling particular attention to what they perceive as the cavalier way in which anti-transgender violence--and transgender people themselves--are treated by police.

Many of Lopez' clients at People Of Color In Crisis, she said, are teens who have been kicked out of or run away from their homes after experiencing hostility or violence over their gender identity and expression. As a result, they may not have identification or other papers, access to legal assistance or eligibility for social services.

Lopez' state identification card indicates that she is female, as did the documents of the other women she mentioned, at least those who had such documentation.
Taunted to Reveal 'Real' Gender

Nonetheless, police and corrections have taunted them to reveal their "real" gender, and their genitals. "There's nothing telling the cops they can't behave that way," said Lopez, who blames the ordeals of transgender women at the hands of police on poor police oversight and training.

Only 1 in 6 police departments surveyed has official policies regarding interactions with transgender people, according to the Amnesty report. Only 1 in 3 has written policies regulating the detention of transgender people.

Lopez' story didn't surprise Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police Department Sgt. Brett Parson, who also spoke at the Amnesty press conference.

"Whether or not stories like Ms. Lopez' are verified, the perception is there that LGBT [Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender] people aren't treated equally," Parson said, adding that one result of such a perception is that LGBT people often don't report assaults and other crimes against them, whether police or civilians committed those infractions.

Parson supervises the Gay and Lesbian Liaison Unit for his department, which is increasingly identified by scholars as a leader in how police agencies develop relations with lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender communities.

Eleven percent of the 810 documented LGBT crime victims in New York City in 2003 were transgender women, even though they are estimated to be just 1 to 2 percent of the overall LGBT population, according to the Washington-based National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs. The coalition, which includes organizations that document LGBT-related violence and advocate for victims, interviewed 2,131 crime victims in 12 U.S. cities for its survey that year.

Although statistics on how many of the attacks were committed by law enforcement officials were not compiled in reports from the coalition or Amnesty, both Parson and Lopez contend that police attacks on LGBT people are significant.

Incidents of assault and harassment persist in New York City, which added language to protect "gender identity and expression" to its human rights laws in April 2002.

In adopting the language, New York joined 74 other U.S. municipalities--including San Francisco, New Orleans, Boston, Minneapolis and Rochester, N.Y.
--that had similar laws in effect that make physical or verbal violence against an actual or perceived member of a protected group--such as transgenders--a hate crime.
Hate Crimes Not Documented

However, New York City law still doesn't require that the police department or any other agency document hate crimes. As a result, advocates say transgender people are reluctant or fearful of reporting harassment against them and may believe that such complaints won't be taken seriously.

Parson agreed with Lopez that LGBT people--particularly young transgender women--comply with police officers' demands and threats because they feel they have no recourse.

Too few officers are trained to properly handle transgender people, according to Amnesty International USA Executive Director William F. Schulz. He initiated the study of the largest police department in each state as well as the Washington, D.C., and San Antonio, Texas, departments.

Of the 29 departments that responded, only seven have written policies regarding strip-searches of transgender people and nine have policies on the detention of transgender people. Just 11 of the departments have a LGBT liaison officer on staff.

Schulz, who is also a Unitarian Universalist minister, said the Amnesty study found that police departments routinely profile transgender women as sex workers. As a result, they are often arrested and detained on vague quality-of-life or nuisance charges. In the absence of specific guidelines, law enforcement officers arrest and detain people on loitering charges "simply for standing in one place for too long," according to Schulz.

One result of this is that transgender crime victims incur the blame when they tangle with the police. "The cops wanted to know what I was doing there at that time of day," Lopez recalled. "Too many of us internalize the hate. We don't think we're good enough to file charges and seek help."

Parson looked at her. "You have to speak up. You're worth it." Then, turning to the audience, he said, "We have to speak up. We're worth it!"

Justine Nicholas began her life and writing vocation as Nicholas Valinotti. She is a freelance writer based in New York and teaches English at York College.

Women's eNews welcomes your comments. E-mail us at editors@womensenews.org.

The problem is the lack of statistical studies, as the article admits--nobody has scientifically studied the problem.


"Although statistics on how many of the attacks were committed by law enforcement officials were not compiled in reports from the coalition or Amnesty, both Parson and Lopez contend that police attacks on LGBT people are significant."


And who is Parson? A D.C. metro police sergeant.

So this isn't, like, a bunch of activists making accusations. A serving police sergeant is willing to contend that there IS a lot of police brutality toward transwomen which needs to be resolved.

And that is basically as conclusive as it can get, so, not only am I now debating this but I expect your concession on the points you raised against me. You're welcome to continue debating Jacie, her claims are completley different from mine.

[Darth Wong]

...

No, I got exactly what you were saying. But "I can't prove it and won't debate it, but I'm still right!" is nonsense that goes against the ideas this place tries to uphold, and you are rather fond of that tactic of late. So yes, I'm calling you out on it.

Why was her quoting of Amnesty USA insufficient evidence that the police have a tendency to mistreat transgender individuals? It seems like more evidence than you have put forth for the opposite position, ie- that police are fair and transgenders are just making it up.

[Axis Kast]

Why was her quoting of Amnesty USA insufficient evidence that the police have a tendency to mistreat transgender individuals? It seems like more evidence than you have put forth for the opposite position, ie- that police are fair and transgenders are just making it up.

You have misrepresented.

The argument being made was not that the statistics are incorrect, but that, in this particular case, there is no specific evidence to support accusations of police malfeasance.

The arguments in favor of that conclusion are no more credible than when members of a minority community insist that they are the victims of racial prejudice after being brought up on charges. It's a much stronger possibility than when the accused is white, but, independently, the fact that it occurs is no evidence that the police are wrong in any given instant.