T:SCC 2x09: "Complications"

[Thanas]

This episode will air in the usual timeslot.

Sarah’s mystifying nightmares creep into her real life – but what do they mean for her and John? Meanwhile, Derek and Jesse investigate a possible Skynet conspirator.

Richard Schiff will guest star. Yeah, you read that one right - Richard freaking Schiff of the West Wing will make an appearance. I am so psyched about this...to see him on the screen again and on Terminator of all things...neat. The man is simply one of the best character actors of our time, let's hope the writers give him something to do.

Also, please use the spoiler tags with regards to episode previews and spoilers from the next episode, since not everybody likes to be spoiled in advance.

[Shroom Man 777]

Has it started showing yet?

[Burak Gazan]

Yeah, 8pm EST for first showing, replay on west coast at 11pm est

Got to watch again, missed the first few minutes

[squidman001]

I think the favorite part of the episode for me had to be when
Spoiler

Derek was strapped to the medical table and all the terminators can be seen in the back, learning their lessons like good little robots.

[Thanas]

^You don't have to use spoilers for this one, just for the next episode. My apologies if that was unclear from the OP.

As for the episode:
- as expected, Richard Schiff was fantastic
- Fisher caused Fisher to be incarcerated who then caused Fisher to be incarcerated...a paradox. Nice.
- Derek's actions changing the future? Hmm. Could be that Jessie is simply lying about it.
- The three dots...nice work by Lena Headey there.
- like I predicted, Ellison turns over Cromartie to Weaver
- Sarah's dreams. Looks like she still considers Cameron to be the number one threat to her sun, at least subconsciously.

The bad:
- as expected, Cameron is the only one who acts in a logical manner. Again. Who else could it have been besides Ellison?

[Thanas]

BTW, if we accept that Jesse is speaking the truth, we just got confirmation of shifting timelines.

[Burak Gazan]

"No one comes back without a mission"

Um, except you, eh sweet cheeks?

I wouldnt trust Jesse if she told me water was wet. The first thing I thought when she murdered Future Fisher was "well now, when did YOU start working for skynet?" With him now conveniently dead, there is no way to even try and extract any information from him. Nice work genius

Secrets, secrets -- Ellison is a complete imbecile (as you predicted ) and I get the feeling all the uncoordinated stuff is going to make for an even bigger disaster than the Cromartie fiasco.

[Shroom Man 777]

Sweet Cheeks has pictures of Derek and the Gang underneath her bed sheets, so yes, she does have a mission.

I don't think Sarah is considering Cameron as a threat, she's just having Eriksonian Trust versus Mistrust issues regarding the machine. Robot River!

Robot River, feeling the wind on her foots, and flipping Ellison-turtle over!

Ellison, you complete fucker!

John... well, at least you're not being a little shit to your mom!

Sarah, turtle flippings!

Robot River, giving Sarah freaky green Gatorade.

The plot continues - finallies!

[Burak Gazan]

Exactly, but that aint what she told Derek That just makes me think Skynet spy/assassin more

Interesting stuff in this one; Cameron had some good lines, the "we're not made to be cruel" bit --- just before going in and using Ellison as a ragdoll I still cant believe the degree of boneheadedness going on considering the stakes. I mean, come on

Just remembered too, nice touch John finding that old photo of Sarah in Ellisons' apartment -- and taking it

[Thanas]

Exactly, but that aint what she told Derek That just makes me think Skynet spy/assassin more

Come to think of it, a big WTF with regards to Derek this episode - all the time he is sceptical and when his fuck-buddy suddenly reveals something like that when she wants him to do something, he suddenly does so? Even though he remembers none of it?

Damm it. The next character being struck by the stupidity curse this season. Heck, at this point, Skynet deserves to win simply due to the good guys being idiots (with the exception of Cameron).

Interesting stuff in this one; Cameron had some good lines, the "we're not made to be cruel" bit --- just before going in and using Ellison as a ragdoll

Nah, that wasn't cruelty. Just ruthlessness.

[eyexist]

BTW, if we accept that Jesse is speaking the truth, we just got confirmation of shifting timelines.

Don't forget that Cam didn't know who Fisher was either when Derek called her. I'm leaning more towards the shifting timelines theory too.

[Burak Gazan]

Nah, that wasn't cruelty. Just ruthlessness.

I agree, it just worked very well

One thing forgot about, near the end with Ellison (idiot!) handing over Cromartie's remains to Weaver...
Um, nice dress?

[Anguirus]

Come to think of it, a big WTF with regards to Derek this episode - all the time he is sceptical and when his fuck-buddy suddenly reveals something like that when she wants him to do something, he suddenly does so? Even though he remembers none of it?

Don't forget, Fischer blew it to Derek and admitted that he "wondered when he would remember." Although it was still pretty weird.

Also, I don't find there to be a big problem with Ellison's actions, from his perspective. Weaver has bailed him out of a tight spot and otherwise gained his trust. He clearly thinks that staying close to Weaver and letting her examine the future technology is the best way to understand Skynet and what's going on. It's just the audience who knows that's probably a Bad Idea.

This episode has some good twists and some good acting, but it's still in low 3 territory for me. Although Richard Schiff is awesome. (Interesting how Fischer has apparently aged so much more than Andy Goode in the same timeframe!)

[Lord_Xerxes]

Just remembered too, nice touch John finding that old photo of Sarah in Ellisons' apartment -- and taking it

Ironically this is likely the photo he ends up giving Kyle. Taken from Ellison. It's a nice subtle twist. I'd always assumed Sarah gave it to him.

[Thanas]

Come to think of it, a big WTF with regards to Derek this episode - all the time he is sceptical and when his fuck-buddy suddenly reveals something like that when she wants him to do something, he suddenly does so? Even though he remembers none of it?

Don't forget, Fischer blew it to Derek and admitted that he "wondered when he would remember." Although it was still pretty weird.

After the torture IIRC though.

This episode has some good twists and some good acting, but it's still in low 3 territory for me. Although Richard Schiff is awesome. (Interesting how Fischer has apparently aged so much more than Andy Goode in the same timeframe!)

Prison and working for skynet does probably age you more than being a sales tech. And Richard Schiff did boost the episode to a 4 for me. I mean, just watch him outact Green with his eyes.

BTW, if we accept that Jesse is speaking the truth, we just got confirmation of shifting timelines.

Don't forget that Cam didn't know who Fisher was either when Derek called her. I'm leaning more towards the shifting timelines theory too.

Or: Jessie completely lied about everything and the guy doesn't work for Skynet at all. Though I'll admit that seems less likely.

So we have got:

Future: T1/2
Future 2: Cameron and Derek from it
Future 3: Jesse, Fisher.

all in the same timeline. Nice.

[D.Turtle]

- Fisher caused Fisher to be incarcerated who then caused Fisher to be incarcerated...a paradox. Nice.

Actually it is even more complicated:

Derek came from a timeline where he wasn't captured and tortured by Fischer.
Fischer obviously came from one where he had been incarcerated for life and ended up working for Skynet.
He went back in time and caused himself to be incarcerated for life(among other things).
Jessie, by stopping Derek from killing the younger Fischer, made certain that this would now be the established timeline - if she hadn't interfered, young Fischer would either have been killed by Derek (thus changing the timeline) or young Fischer might (for example) have an air-tight Alibi to prove that he didn't access the computer network, thereby not being incarcerated for life and not working for Skynet.

Damn, it gets complicated, but I am currently also thinking that Jessie is working for Skynet.

Oh, and yes, I go by the shifting timeline theory.

[Peptuck]

So, hey, anyone else get the connection between Derek being stuck in Fischer's lab and Derek being dragged down to the basement in "Dungeons&Dragons"? I don't think that Fischer not showing up in Cameron's memory means much, because Cameron herself admitted that everything was supposed to be wiped.

Schiff, of course, rocked the house.

Overall, I give this one a 4. The only one being an idiot that I can see is John, and even then there are a number of off-chance possibilities that can excuse Ellison in his eyes (say, anyone from the Mexican village they shot up following them at a distance and digging Cromartie up, for example) and he doesn't have a motive for digging up Cromartie either, as far as John knows. John's more or less been established thus far as one who thinks with emotion rather than cold logic. He may be a moron, but he's a likable moron.

Sarah, showing some great psychological strain, especially her subconscious conflict with Cameron over who is controlling her son. The symbolism of Sarah and Cameron watering the cacti that turn metal and wrap around John was one of the more striking mental images, though I also found the image of Cameron breast-feeding symbol-turtle-John both apt and disturbing.

Cameron, still showing some amusing quirks. I loved how she actually has a musical preference, though I expected her to switch to classical and listen to Chopin. And her flipping Ellison over was hilarious.

Also, I've come to the conclusion that the #1 Rule of T:SCC: When Cameron smiles, for any reason, you should be very afraid.

[Thanas]

So, hey, anyone else get the connection between Derek being stuck in Fischer's lab and Derek being dragged down to the basement in "Dungeons&Dragons"?

Well, but where is the music? And I doubt he would have been dragged down by an outdated model when there were many T-888s around. Also, the room didn't look like much of a basement to me. Or at least not the kind of basement you'd find in such an area...and still, I doubt that Skynet would leave such an asset unprotected. Also, Derek remembers his torture in the basement.

I don't think that Fischer not showing up in Cameron's memory means much, because Cameron herself admitted that everything was supposed to be wiped.

Which is contradicted by her remembering torturing Derek.

Schiff, of course, rocked the house.

Yeah. I just rewatched it and noticed a lot of little things that show how great of an actor he is. Like the barely noticeable measuring looks he gives Derek when he is talking to him. Damm. Now I want to rewatch the West Wing again.

Sarah, showing some great psychological strain, especially her subconscious conflict with Cameron over who is controlling her son. The symbolism of Sarah and Cameron watering the cacti that turn metal and wrap around John was one of the more striking mental images, though I also found the image of Cameron breast-feeding symbol-turtle-John both apt and disturbing.

That conflict has been more pronounced this season, yeah. "I don't like how he responds to you".

Cameron, still showing some amusing quirks. I loved how she actually has a musical preference, though I expected her to switch to classical and listen to Chopin. And her flipping Ellison over was hilarious.

Maybe she is one of the people who only listen to classical music when they can concentrate on it. I know I am one of those, because it does no good for my driving skills.

Also, I've come to the conclusion that the #1 Rule of T:SCC: When Cameron smiles, for any reason, you should be very afraid.

[Crazedwraith]

Was overly thrilled this episode. Wasn't Cameron actually supposed to have built in lie detectors in season 1? "He's lying" wasn't her opinion it was a statement of fact. Cameron should have ignore John and kept pummelling.

Did we see Ellison with the T1 picture before now?

I'm voting 3 out of 5 for this week. It was alright but not really that enthralling.

[Old Plympto]

You know, the primary rule of action TV shows is that when the good guy has the upper hand and believes that he should kill the bad guy, he doesn't. After which everything will smell of roses. Heroes don't give in to the dark side, especially not on TV.

This seems to be the only TV show where when the good guys instinctively think they have to kill someone buy don't, it comes back to bite them on the ass.

[Thanas]

Was overly thrilled this episode. Wasn't Cameron actually supposed to have built in lie detectors in season 1? "He's lying" wasn't her opinion it was a statement of fact. Cameron should have ignore John and kept pummelling.

John doesn't know that she can deduce that someone is lying. Also, if she had kept on pummeling, she would most likely have lost any leverage she has over John right now, considering that her looks and flirting isn't buying her much these days.

[Crazedwraith]

Was overly thrilled this episode. Wasn't Cameron actually supposed to have built in lie detectors in season 1? "He's lying" wasn't her opinion it was a statement of fact. Cameron should have ignore John and kept pummelling.

John doesn't know that she can deduce that someone is lying. Also, if she had kept on pummeling, she would most likely have lost any leverage she has over John right now, considering that her looks and flirting isn't buying her much these days.

Umm... Saying; "John; my biometric sensors indicate a heightened polygraphy responses. He's Lying" wouldn't have worked, why?

More likely the writers forget she can do that.

[Thanas]

Was overly thrilled this episode. Wasn't Cameron actually supposed to have built in lie detectors in season 1? "He's lying" wasn't her opinion it was a statement of fact. Cameron should have ignore John and kept pummelling.

John doesn't know that she can deduce that someone is lying. Also, if she had kept on pummeling, she would most likely have lost any leverage she has over John right now, considering that her looks and flirting isn't buying her much these days.

Umm... Saying; "John; my biometric sensors indicate a heightened polygraphy responses. He's Lying" wouldn't have worked, why?

Because she already said that Ellison was lying and John ordered her not to continue. She may simply have assumed that Sarah and John talk and share information, you know.

[Shroom Man 777]

Cameron wasn't breastfeeding the turtle, goddamn it! She was holding it!

That's just weird.


And Cameron did say Ellison was a lying fuck. And... she seemed pretty pissed when she was beating the living shit out of him. I mean, angrier than usual.

[Strider]

On shifting timelines: If it was some other Derek that got tortured by Fischer, from Jessie's timeline, then where the fuck did he go when he went back in time? He certainly isn't here, in this timeline. Terminator time war mechanics seem to indicate that the version of you that ends up back in time is the "first" version that ever went back, from the first timeline you went back in. All other versions from all other timelines that go backwhen are apparently destroyed or shunted off to some other alternate reality.

This calls into question the event's of T1 though, as the first critter to ever get sent back in time was Arnold. Shouldn't Arnold have killed Sara Connor *before* John Connor could react by sending his father back in time to save his mother? In fact, how does John even exist in the first place, since he had to be there to send his father back through time in some unseen original timeline. Did someone else send his father back originally, for some different reason? If so, how does he know to protect Sara Connor? (This suggests he isn't the first version of himself to go back: maybe the timeline in the whole series is actually an offshoot alternate with a non-primary John's father?) This is the same type of paradoxical cycle as we saw in this episode, with Fischer causing himself to end up in prison. Don't these temporal loops have to get started somehow? I wonder if the writers actually have some kind of consistent logic behind all this, or are just sort of winging it.