Transgender Woman Murdered [UPDATED]

[Ender]

Why was her quoting of Amnesty USA insufficient evidence that the police have a tendency to mistreat transgender individuals?

Because it has to do with general treatement, and not this case.

It seems like more evidence than you have put forth for the opposite position, ie- that police are fair and transgenders are just making it up.

Strawman. I am simply asking for the assertions made here be backed up.

[Ender]

No, I'm not. Transwomen getting picked up for prostitution with no evidence and being released the next day while being insulted and humiliated in custody is what I'm thinking of. Accusing the police of actively denying murders is something else entirely; I've seen plenty of proof that the police do at least take that seriously and that police detectives have seriously investigated the murders of transwomen and even shown considerable respect in many parts of the country.

She made specific claims of criminal activity which you then said that both of you know are true but can't prove it.

I am not going to place myself in the line of personal humiliation because you want to win an argument on a message board. I don't go out after dark because I know if I was ever asked for ID by an officer while out walking that they'd book me for prostitution the moment they saw the M that's still on the driver's license even though I was doing nothing wrong. And there is certainly enough evidence for that attitude:
*snip*
And that is basically as conclusive as it can get, so, not only am I now debating this but I expect your concession on the points you raised against me. You're welcome to continue debating Jacie, her claims are completley different from mine.

I didn't start debating you until you came in and vouched that Jacie's claims were true, a statement that you are yet to support and are trying to shift the subject away from.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Do note that as a California emergency medical technician, I work with local law enforcement on a regular basis. Several of my friends are police officers; the man who taught me to shoot was a Sheriff's Department deputy. I have the utmost professional respect for law enforcement officers, and I'm quite aware that the majority of them are honest, sincere, hard-working men and women.

But, none of that changes the fact that American police as a whole have a proven track record of both directly and indirectly perpetrating the most vile and horrific abuses against transgender Americans, especially male-to-female transsexuals. In other words, they are honest, sincere, hard-working, and tremendously transphobic. . . and they see no contradiction in that. In fact, most of them probably define being transphobic as a necessary element of being a fine, upstanding citizen.

ENDER:

This assertion is the one I was defending, NOT her claims about this murder. I posted my response immediately after this post of her's and my comments were clearly intended to reinforce her assertion.

THAT is all I am defending, and since you had to get so put out of sorts over it, I proceeded to figure what the hell and back it up. I have made no attempt to defend her other claims, whereas I have proved this one. There is nothing for me to concede in this thread because I never claimed anything else. This is now between you and Jacie as far as I'm concerned.

You are trying to strawman my argument by saying that I "must" be defending Jacie's conspiracy theory about this woman's death simply because I posted in this thread, which is ludicrous. I am sorry I failed to use the quote function on her post in my original post, but that IS what I was referring to and that IS the post I was answering and I REALLY DID mean nothing except for that post.

So, please cool down, take a breath, and acknowledge the fact that this issue has been settled, and that you're going to gain nothing except more drama if you continue to irrationally insist that I somehow "must have" meant I was defending her entire argument, because I wasn't, and I have repeatedly stated I think her claims about the murder are unsupportable bunk. And yet, you distressingly insist on continuing to demand that I concede an argument I never made, and have indeed repeatedly disclaimed. That's called a strawman.

[RedImperator]

I didn't start debating you until you came in and vouched that Jacie's claims were true, a statement that you are yet to support and are trying to shift the subject away from.

Ender, she conceded JCady's speculation on this specific case was unsubstantiated. As near as I can tell, she never was defending them, though I admit some of her posts were a little ambiguous in their wording. Marina has been defending JCady's characterization of transwomen/police relations, which she did support. As near as I can tell, nobody's trying to shift anything.

[JCady]

For that matter, Ender seems to be purposely misconstruing my statement about the inadequate investigation as referring to the second transgender death and not the first. I find it very suspicious that the Memphis police insist that they have NO suspects in Ms. Johnston's murder when the two ex police officers who were fired for brutalizing Ms. Johnston clearly have both the means and the motive to have committed that murder.

As for the second case, I think the police and medical examiner are jumping to conclusions by giving inadequate weight to the evidence that the victim was not depressed and had no reason to commit suicide. I'm accusing them of poor judgement, not a criminal coverup.

[Stormbringer]

For that matter, Ender seems to be purposely misconstruing my statement about the inadequate investigation as referring to the second transgender death and not the first. I find it very suspicious that the Memphis police insist that they have NO suspects in Ms. Johnston's murder when the two ex police officers who were fired for brutalizing Ms. Johnston clearly have both the means and the motive to have committed that murder.

I think you need to be a hell of a lot clearer. At no point that I can see did you ever state that flat out and it would have spared a lot of trouble if you had.

That said, they probably are looking at them to an extent but to publicly name them as suspects (or even persons of interest) with out corroborating evidence would be highly damaging to the police and any future case. On the trial front, if they're wrong about it being the cops it makes a ready made defense and if they're right it can argued as undue prejudice of the jury pool. Police Departments and even the FBI have gotten sued and taken to the cleaners for calling people suspects when they could not substantiate the charges. What your suggesting they do is not only irresponsible, legally actionable, but also potentially damaging if any trial takes place. There's a damn good reason for the police to not shoot their mouths off which requires none of your more paranoid imaginings to be true.

Furthermore, while those ex-cops do have a motive and means, there is zero evidence to suggest they took the opportunity. That alone is enough to keep reasonable people from slinging around murder accusations. But on top of that, there is evidence in your own article which introduces problems with that theory: "Police say a witness heard gunfire and then saw three people running away from the scene." With no explanation for who the third person could be, it's hard to suggest two officers be the primary suspects.

As for the second case, I think the police and medical examiner are jumping to conclusions by giving inadequate weight to the evidence that the victim was not depressed and had no reason to commit suicide. I'm accusing them of poor judgement, not a criminal coverup.

Bull and shit.

For starters, even people close to suicide victims who quite patently did express similar levels of disbelief and surprise. It's not terribly common even for people to admit they saw the signs even in retrospect. It's a very normal trait for people to want to believe the best of others and that's doubly so in the wake of a tragedy. Not to stray too far but it is a cliche to see people talking about confessed depraved serial killers and lunatic gunman in similar fashion. The old "he seemed like such a nice, normal guy" type routine and for similar reasons.

Second, that assumes that the person giving the quotes, who from the article was a co-worker (and boss at that) would be in a position of emotional intimacy. There's nothing to say they knew her emotional state so well as to absolutely rule out suicidal tendencies. If she was depressed it's entirely possible she withdrew from them with out their particularly noticing. Not at all unlikely considering the emotional roller coaster her life was, especially recently. Establishing a person's mindset at second hand is a very tricky thing and hardly something to override more objective evidence.

Thirdly, and quite probably most importantly, the evidence of murder is a third hand report on the crime scene and patently absurd potential scenario for said crime. If there was broken furniture and blood, the accounts of which are neither detailed nor directly reported, then that implies a pretty significant physical confrontation. To have attacked her and murdered her in that fashion would leave a wealth of physical evidence, of the violence done to her if nothing else, which no police officer or medical examiner would rightly miss. It's extremely difficult for some one to be beaten to death with out it being evident.

On top of that toxicology tests indicate they believe she was killed by poison, which is a down right retarded way for such a fight to have ended. There's a major brawl and they give her a bunch of pills to finally do her in? That's unlikely to say the least. Suicide, an accidental OD, or some sort of drug reaction are by far more likely that murder. If those reports come up negative, or there's no underlying medical condition, then things get murkier. But right now this looks more like a martyr complex by proxy than anything.

[JCady]

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/ ... or_be.html

SYRACUSE, NY - Dwight R. DeLee shot and killed Moses "Teish" Cannon with a .22-caliber rifle Friday night because he didn't like that Cannon was openly gay, Syracuse police said.

Cannon, 22, and his brother, Mark Cannon, 18, both of 404 Arthur St., were shot as they sat in a car parked in front of 411 Seymour St., where they had been invited to a party. The bullet grazed the left arm of Mark Cannon, who was in the driver's seat, and hit Moses Cannon in the chest, police said.

Police have charged DeLee, 20, of 420 Gifford St., with second-degree murder. DeLee went into the home at 411 Seymour St. to get the rifle after guests at the party started "making profane and vulgar comments in regards to the sexual preference of our two victims," police Chief Gary Miguel said.

"There was no previous argument between these individuals, there was no previous fight, there was no bad blood," Miguel said. "Our suspect took a rifle and shot and killed this person, also wounding his brother, for the sole reason he didn't care for the sexual preference of our victim. Isn't that sad? Isn't that a sad situation that that's the sole reason why?

"I talk to you about this atmosphere of violence and that certain individuals believe that violence is the answer no matter what, and here's just another example," Miguel said.

Cannon's family said his death should be treated as a hate crime. Miguel said it's up to the District Attorney's office to decide if it's a hate crime.

Police started searching for DeLee after interviewing witnesses. He was located at 2 a.m. Sunday at a residence in Liverpool, police said.

Miguel said there's no indication the Cannons were lured to the party so they could be assaulted. "The person who called (to invite them to the party) is a friend," Miguel said.

This article actually illustrates a lot of the subtler transphobia that goes on in society. Teish Cannon is a transexual woman, yet the article insists on referring to her as a gay man, using male pronouns for her, and using her male name.

[Gaidin]

I can't say I'm surprised that they would call her by her file name and gender in an interview.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I can't say I'm surprised that they would call her by her file name and gender in an interview.

AP rules require use of preferred name and sex in dealing with transgender cases, but I've been to Syracuse (twice) and it's a total hole (in fact I think an ex of mine still lives there) and I'm not at all surprised that their local news isn't nearly so enlightened.

[Oscar Wilde]

Days that make me ashamed to be an american...

[Adrian Laguna]

This article actually illustrates a lot of the subtler transphobia that goes on in society. Teish Cannon is a transexual woman, yet the article insists on referring to her as a gay man, using male pronouns for her, and using her male name.

You posted an early version of the story, where the only indication of Teish being trans is in the first line where her legal and preferred names are given. The newer one is more detailed, which in my opinion makes it even more egregious. They state that family and friends used female pronouns to refer to her, they quote them doing so, and yet they still insist in treating her otherwise.

As a side note, reading the comments for the article it seems that nobody is surprised by the killer's identity. The DeLees were described as "Syracuse's first family of crime", and Dwight himself has already been in state prison.

[Terralthra]

His e-mail is at the top and bottom of the story. I suggest sending an e-mail reminding him of the AP Style guidelines regarding transgendered individuals, as I already have. If future stories continue to be insulting, I'll be sending an e-mail to the editor.

[Terralthra]

He replied.

Dear Mr. Michael:

As I am sure you are aware, being a professional journalist, AP Style has very specific guidelines for use when referring to transgender individuals. Quote: Use the pronoun preferred by the individuals who have acquired the physical characteristics of the opposite sex or present themselves in a way that does not correspond with their sex at birth. One of the victims in this case, Teish Williams, presented herself as female, and clearly preferred that pronoun. A hate crime has already been committed here; please do not exacerbate it with insults toward the victim. Please use the proper pronoun when referring to Teish.

-Michael D. Shannon

Mr. Shannon,

Thank you for your interest in our coverage and your feedback.

As you can imagine, this story sparked extensive conversations in the newsroom about how to handle the situation. The question of how to refer to Teish Cannon was not taken lightly, and those conversations continue. There were many factors involved here that had to be taken into consideration, and there was and remains no intent to insult the victim.

If you would like to speak with me about this issue, please give me a call at 470-3085. Unfortunately, I will be out of the office starting this afternoon and through the rest of the week, but I will be happy to speak with you as soon as we can.

Sincerely,

Matt

[JCady]

http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/news/lo ... 0d33b1171a

MEMPHIS, TN -- Former Memphis Police Officer Bridges McRae has been indicted on a civil rights violation in the beating of transgendered woman Duanna Johnson.

According to the indictment, McRae is accused of using excessive force when he repeatedly hit Duanna Johnson with his fists and handcuffs on February 12, 2008.

Johnson told Eyewitness News that McRae called her a "he/she" and other derogatory terms before and during the beating. She said another officer, J. Swain held her down while McRae hit her.

Both officers were fired from the Memphis Police Department in June after the video of the beating was released to the media.

If convicted, McRae could face up to 10 years in a federal prison.

On November 9th, Duanna Johnson was found in the street, shot to death in North Memphis. Police say it happened just before midnight at Hollywood near Staten Avenue.

Witnesses told investigators they heard gunfire and then saw thee people running away from the scene.

Police do not have any suspects in that case and are asking anyone with information about the crime to call Crime Stoppers at (901) 528-CASH.

He deserves to be on criminal assault-and-battery charges and not this lousy civil rights violation slap on the wrist, but at least it looks like he's not going to get away scot-free.

[Kamakazie Sith]

http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/news/lo ... 0d33b1171a

MEMPHIS, TN -- Former Memphis Police Officer Bridges McRae has been indicted on a civil rights violation in the beating of transgendered woman Duanna Johnson.

According to the indictment, McRae is accused of using excessive force when he repeatedly hit Duanna Johnson with his fists and handcuffs on February 12, 2008.

Johnson told Eyewitness News that McRae called her a "he/she" and other derogatory terms before and during the beating. She said another officer, J. Swain held her down while McRae hit her.

Both officers were fired from the Memphis Police Department in June after the video of the beating was released to the media.

If convicted, McRae could face up to 10 years in a federal prison.

On November 9th, Duanna Johnson was found in the street, shot to death in North Memphis. Police say it happened just before midnight at Hollywood near Staten Avenue.

Witnesses told investigators they heard gunfire and then saw thee people running away from the scene.

Police do not have any suspects in that case and are asking anyone with information about the crime to call Crime Stoppers at (901) 528-CASH.

He deserves to be on criminal assault-and-battery charges and not this lousy civil rights violation slap on the wrist, but at least it looks like he's not going to get away scot-free.

Civil rights violations are serious. Much more serious than tiny assault and battery charges. These are federal crimes that are only charged against government employees, and they are investigated by the FBI.

Civil Rights

[The Yosemite Bear]

I mwntioned that earlier if it's good enough for the mississipi burning assholes, the LAPD guys who beat up rodney king, and the the NOPD guys who murdered a witness against their drug trade.

[JCady]

http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/news/lo ... 0d33b1171a

MEMPHIS, TN -- Former Memphis Police Officer Bridges McRae has been indicted on a civil rights violation in the beating of transgendered woman Duanna Johnson.

According to the indictment, McRae is accused of using excessive force when he repeatedly hit Duanna Johnson with his fists and handcuffs on February 12, 2008.

Johnson told Eyewitness News that McRae called her a "he/she" and other derogatory terms before and during the beating. She said another officer, J. Swain held her down while McRae hit her.

Both officers were fired from the Memphis Police Department in June after the video of the beating was released to the media.

If convicted, McRae could face up to 10 years in a federal prison.

On November 9th, Duanna Johnson was found in the street, shot to death in North Memphis. Police say it happened just before midnight at Hollywood near Staten Avenue.

Witnesses told investigators they heard gunfire and then saw thee people running away from the scene.

Police do not have any suspects in that case and are asking anyone with information about the crime to call Crime Stoppers at (901) 528-CASH.

He deserves to be on criminal assault-and-battery charges and not this lousy civil rights violation slap on the wrist, but at least it looks like he's not going to get away scot-free.

Civil rights violations are serious. Much more serious than tiny assault and battery charges. These are federal crimes that are only charged against government employees, and they are investigated by the FBI.

Civil Rights

My mistake. For some reason, I always thought assault and battery was a felony and not just a misdemeanor.

[The Yosemite Bear]

actually assult and Battary are "Wobblers" meaning they can be charged as either a felony or mistemenor depending on the judge/prosecution's descretion. (good old boys rears ugly head). however, Deniel of civil rights is a felony crime.

[Kamakazie Sith]

actually assult and Battary are "Wobblers" meaning they can be charged as either a felony or mistemenor depending on the judge/prosecution's descretion. (good old boys rears ugly head). however, Deniel of civil rights is a felony crime.

It really just depends on the state. However, it's not up to the judge or jury discretion. It's about what the law says. It wouldn't matter how much a judge wanted to charge you with felony assault if assault didn't have a felony listed under that crime.

For example in Utah assault can be either a class B or A misdemeanor. Even then a judge can't just charge someone with a class A the crime must still meet the elements. For you to be charged with a class A misdemeanor assault in Utah you had to have caused substantial bodily injury.

[Kamakazie Sith]

My mistake. For some reason, I always thought assault and battery was a felony and not just a misdemeanor.

No big deal. You should be pleased though because ten years is a felony sentence in most states.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

actually assult and Battary are "Wobblers" meaning they can be charged as either a felony or mistemenor depending on the judge/prosecution's descretion. (good old boys rears ugly head). however, Deniel of civil rights is a felony crime.

It really just depends on the state. However, it's not up to the judge or jury discretion. It's about what the law says. It wouldn't matter how much a judge wanted to charge you with felony assault if assault didn't have a felony listed under that crime.

For example in Utah assault can be either a class B or A misdemeanor. Even then a judge can't just charge someone with a class A the crime must still meet the elements. For you to be charged with a class A misdemeanor assault in Utah you had to have caused substantial bodily injury.

So I guess a Class B is like when some guy pushes another guy over without causing any injuries that require medical intervention, or something like that?

[Kamakazie Sith]

So I guess a Class B is like when some guy pushes another guy over without causing any injuries that require medical intervention, or something like that?

Yeah, something like that. Allow me to clarify.

"Bodily injury" means physical pain, illness, or any impairment of physical condition.

"Substantial bodily injury" means bodily injury, not amounting to serious bodily injury, that creates or causes protracted physical pain, temporary disfigurement, or temporary loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ.

"Serious bodily injury" means bodily injury that creates or causes serious permanent disfigurement, protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ, or creates a substantial risk of death.

Assaulting someone and causing serious bodily injury is aggravated assault. A second degree felony.

You can also be charged with assault if you threaten someone and also display an immediate show of force to injure someone. Or an attempted assault with get you charged with assault.

***EDIT***Again, this is just for Utah.