Obama Outlines Plan for LGBT issues

[CaptainChewbacca]

How can bisexuality be considered homophobic?

[Invictus ChiKen]

How can bisexuality be considered homophobic?

Tell me and we will both know. This lot was... Well let's just say Fundis would love it if all homosexuals where like them, they'd have no trouble pushing there agenda forward.

[Rye]

How can bisexuality be considered homophobic?

Bisexuality itself is not homophobic, saying that gays are deluded bisexuals arguably is; and that's no doubt the way they took what IC said.

[Kanastrous]

How can bisexuality be considered homophobic?

Bisexuality itself is not homophobic, saying that gays are deluded bisexuals arguably is; and that's no doubt the way they took what IC said.

I'm irritated by the proposition that it's bisexuals who are actually deluded gays. Something for everybody.

Some misguided and occasionally malignant people will argue that bisexuality implies choice because a bisexual person may choose to roll with a member of either sex.* Then they try to suggest that homosexuality is a choice, supposing that bisexuals and homosexuals are entirely interchangeable, and that my ability to choose either a male or female partner implies that a gay person must be able to do the same, and is therefore naughty and undesirable for refusing to make the 'choice' that said misguided/malignant people insist they make.

The flaw to this concept being that I don't choose to be bisexual, any more than a hetero person chooses heterosexuality, or a gay person chooses being gay, or a transgendered person chooses transgenderism (ness?) My nature - which I didn't choose - is to be so moved as to perceive a set of prospective partners including male and female. Others' natures might direct them strictly to members of the opposite sex, or to strictly members of the same.

Anyway, that's an example I have encountered of the existence of bisexuals used as basis for a 'free choice' argument regarding homosexuality, on the part of sanctimonious jerks with an unhealthy interest in other people's bedroom practices.




* Or gender, or condition, or phenotype, or whatever term pleases the most and offends the least.

[JCady]

How can bisexuality be considered homophobic?

For the same reason some people consider transexuality to be homophobic -- you're "obviously" gay and in denial.

[Kanastrous]

Yes, one gets accused of being in denial even though duh one is generally out as bi which is why one's interlocutor fucking knows in the goddamned first place.

[Ohma]

For the same reason some people consider transexuality to be homophobic -- you're "obviously" gay and in denial.

Or you're a double super-secret straight agenda operative sent to infiltrate feminist safe places.

[Mr. Coffee]

For the same reason some people consider transexuality to be homophobic -- you're "obviously" gay and in denial.

Or you're a double super-secret straight agenda operative sent to infiltrate feminist safe places.

I guess that's one way to go about finding out what's going on in SOS-NBA...

[CaptainChewbacca]

How can bisexuality be considered homophobic?

For the same reason some people consider transexuality to be homophobic -- you're "obviously" gay and in denial.

Long ago, I figured out the best way to understand people is to realize that gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things, and have a surprisingly large number of possible permutations.

[Invictus ChiKen]

Bisexuality itself is not homophobic, saying that gays are deluded bisexuals arguably is; and that's no doubt the way they took what IC said.

Well when I was asked to explain I pointed out the fact that many of them despite being lesbians have had several boyfriends AFTER coming out and only went total lesbian after the break up only to switch when another hot came came along.

An one of them still went on about how she would do Orlando Bloom especially if you looked like his LoR character at the time. Then I pointed out it could well be to different degrees of bisexuality.

Of course the argument could be made they where just bisexuals in denial because they swallowed the Bis need to make up there damn minds line hook, line and sinker.

[Invictus ChiKen]

Sorry for double post but I had to respond to this and didn't see it at first. Could a mod merge this with my last post please?

Long ago, I figured out the best way to understand people is to realize that gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things, and have a surprisingly large number of possible permutations.

I've taken to using a line from El Goonish Shive on this issue as a variant on my old world view. No one is attracted to gender there attracted to people!

Therefore let everyone marry as they will without harming anyone.

[JointStrikeFighter]

+1 Post here but it's pretty despicable that elements in the LGBT refuse to support the rights of shemales and transvestites, do these people not see the hypocrisy? We have even on this board we have two shemales [marina and JC] and whilst I don't always agree with them or even like them for that matter I still feel their rights are as important as any other group.

EDIT; For clarity

[Duckie]

I'm going to hurry to respond to this so your throat doesn't get jumped down:

Simply put, "Shemale" approaches and perhaps surpasses the level of insult found in "Nigger". You'd probably want to rephrase that.

[Flagg]

I'm going to hurry to respond to this so your throat doesn't get jumped down:

Simply put, "Shemale" approaches and perhaps surpasses the level of insult found in "Nigger". You'd probably want to rephrase that.

Since when?

[Duckie]

I'm going to hurry to respond to this so your throat doesn't get jumped down:

Simply put, "Shemale" approaches and perhaps surpasses the level of insult found in "Nigger". You'd probably want to rephrase that.

Since when?

Since forever. Don't ask me about it, ask Duchess or JCady. Or better yet, check the thread in ARSE.

It's also bloody obvious to anyone with a working brain, viz.
1) Transsexuals are born male
2) Transsexuals are mentally female
3) Transsexuals thus consider someone implying they are male an insult (witness- every thread on this)
4) Shemale is a lexical entity composed of two morphemes- She, a female personal pronoun, and Male, a noun meaning masculine or male. (Basic Fluency in the English Language or IQ >90)
5) By now I've connected every dot and pinned this to your forehead, it should be pretty clear why this is probably going to cause Drama and a shitstorm in the thread if not corrected.

Or, to analogize, imagine an insult which simultaneously insults blacks and implies explicitly they are subhuman beasts. That sort of insult, which I don't even know if it exists.

[Mr. Coffee]

Just out of curiosity, MRDOD, did you find that out from an actual transsexual advocacy group of is that something Marina came up with? Not trying to flamebait, just wondering is all.

[Flagg]

Sigh... This is gonna be one of those things isn't it?

[Lord Woodlouse]

Just out of curiosity, MRDOD, did you find that out from an actual transsexual advocacy group of is that something Marina came up with? Not trying to flamebait, just wondering is all.

It's a genuine thing. I was going to post in answer before he explained it himself. Like he said, look at the word, it's pretty obvious why it would be insulting to those who don't consider themselves male.

It's become a mainstream word by those not in the community, and it IS used by some transexuals (especially those who don't want to go ahead with full SRS), but it's definitely not one should use indiscriminately.

Given that the whole area can be a hideous linguistic minefield (which even I can fall afoul of at times, and I like to consider myself pretty educated on the subject) I'd not be too harsh on anyone who used the term term without malice. But that's me.

[Rye]

One could be pedantic and say that the word female is 66% male and only defined in contradistinction to maleness, but that's not going to get people any friends. As a rule, I'd only refer to mtf transsexuals who want to retain their cocks as shemales.

Also:

1)Transsexuals are born male
2) Transsexuals are mentally female
3) Transsexuals thus consider someone implying they are male an insult (witness- every thread on this)

is non-inclusive and presumably offensive to those who are born female and desire to be male morphologically. I also find it quite interesting that the idea of people desiring to be some sort of thirdsex is so vitriolically rebelled against by the transsexuals in the semantics debacle that's so popular in these threads. Overcompensation maybe?

[Mr. Coffee]

Given that the whole area can be a hideous linguistic minefield (which even I can fall afoul of at times, and I like to consider myself pretty educated on the subject) I'd not be too harsh on anyone who used the term term without malice. But that's me.

See, I could be down with this, but some people are just determined to be butthurt no matter what.

[Duckie]

This is true, nobody can be 100% accurate with words, not even I in a correction post. That's why I posted a warning and correction to try to get this out of the minefield before massive shitstorm occured again, and at least considering the lack of rancour in this discussion of vocabulary I consider it a successful attempt. Correlation is not causation, but still, thread = still going without yelling.

[Invictus ChiKen]

Since forever. Don't ask me about it, ask Duchess or JCady. Or better yet, check the thread in ARSE.

This is a new one on me. I've heard this term tossed around by many intersex types for years.

Or, to analogize, imagine an insult which simultaneously insults blacks and implies explicitly they are subhuman beasts. That sort of insult, which I don't even know if it exists.

Umm what does the author of this think the term "coon" and the N-Word mean.

Sigh... This is gonna be one of those things isn't it?

Sadly it looks that way. What's next we can't say gay?

I also find it quite interesting that the idea of people desiring to be some sort of thirdsex is so vitriolically rebelled against by the transsexuals in the semantics debacle that's so popular in these threads. Overcompensation maybe?

I've become convinced that the greatest threat to the gay rights movement is from within. It's a running joke in some homophobic circles that if you play your cards you can make the whole lot of the LGBTXYZWTFETWC movement destroy themselves. There by so they argue showing there "true colors".

*Yes WTFETWC does mean What The Fuck Ever They Wanna Call Themselves.

See, I could be down with this, but some people are just determined to be butthurt no matter what.

Agreed. I know of some transsexuals that still appear male and will bitch you out for calling them sir or any other male pronoun. I mean what the fuck people!?

I dunno about the rest of you but I make that error with people that are still the sex they got born with. I just wish some of this lot would get the fuck over themselves and stop trying to turn there allies against them before they end up doing the Fundamentalists work for them...

I mean shit are this dickheads receiving cheques from Westboro Baptist and the Vatican to act as insider agents or what?

Sorry folks this whole thing has be seeing red

[JCady]

One could be pedantic and say that the word female is 66% male and only defined in contradistinction to maleness, but that's not going to get people any friends. As a rule, I'd only refer to mtf transsexuals who want to retain their cocks as shemales.

The term "shemale" is considered incredibly offensive even by non-op MTFs because it was coined by, and is used almost exclusively by the porn industry.

Also:

1)Transsexuals are born male
2) Transsexuals are mentally female
3) Transsexuals thus consider someone implying they are male an insult (witness- every thread on this)

is non-inclusive and presumably offensive to those who are born female and desire to be male morphologically.

It's a common mistake to assume that all transexuals are male-to-female, yes. Female-to-male transexuals tend to "pass" much better and hence tend to have a much lower profile.

I also find it quite interesting that the idea of people desiring to be some sort of thirdsex is so vitriolically rebelled against by the transsexuals in the semantics debacle that's so popular in these threads. Overcompensation maybe?

Transexuality doesn't include third gender, but the more general term "transgender" does.

[JCady]

Agreed. I know of some transsexuals that still appear male and will bitch you out for calling them sir or any other male pronoun. I mean what the fuck people!?

You don't understand why someone who identifies as female would be upset at being referred to as male?

[Invictus ChiKen]

You don't understand why someone who identifies as female would be upset at being referred to as male?

If they dress like a guy, look a guy and are using the men's restroom
then no, no I do not.

Edit: Before you rant about it I know the trans community doesn't also get to use the restroom they feel they should but still doesn't excuse them lashing out at someone for going for nodding and saying "Hello, Sir" as they walk past.