Trollish Trekkies

[Master of Ossus]

The BDZ is done with the Turbolasers since the missles are not their heaviest weapons and it would be a waste., but the missles can deliver biological warheads if that is the effect the Imperial Commander so desires.

Actually, the BDZ's that Acclamators are capable of do involve the use of proton torpedo fire, and numerous ships (lending further credence to the assumption that BDZ's are fast, since a single Acclamator would be capable of the feat, over about a day's time). ISD's, however, are capable of BDZ's using only their turbolasers and other energy weapons.

[His Divine Shadow]

The names I was given were told to me in secret and I am not going to violate the confidence on the issue

On the book are listed a large number people that Saxton acknowledged, including Connor, Wong and Poe.

They're not exactly secret.

[Admiral Johnason]

Thank yu for the answers. Would ion cannons be used as they could destroy the remaining power gid of the planet? Also, would the Empire erve use antimatter if they could get their hand on it? You could just pour it into the planet's atmosphere and when it came into contact whit the correct element, the devastation would be enormous.

[Ender]

The BDZ is done with the Turbolasers since the missles are not their heaviest weapons and it would be a waste., but the missles can deliver biological warheads if that is the effect the Imperial Commander so desires.

Actually, the BDZ's that Acclamators are capable of do involve the use of proton torpedo fire, and numerous ships (lending further credence to the assumption that BDZ's are fast, since a single Acclamator would be capable of the feat, over about a day's time). ISD's, however, are capable of BDZ's using only their turbolasers and other energy weapons.

The acclamator has 12 quad turrets rated at 200 GT, and 24 Laser Cannons rated at 6 MT. EGWT says TLs can fire twice a second.

200E9 * 12 + 6E6 * 24 = 2400144000000 tons * 4.18E9 joules = 10032601920 TJ * 1800 (60 minutes * (60 sec/2)) = 18.05E24

From the TL page
The crust of a typical planet is composed mostly of silicates, so the thermodynamic properties of silicon dioxide can be used as a reasonable basis for estimating the characteristics of planetary crust material. The melting point of silicon dioxide (quartz microstructure) is 1883K, its density is 2220 kg/m^3, and its specific heat is roughly 1050 J/kgK at high temperatures (ref. Fundamentals of Heat and Mass Transfer 3rd Edition by Incropera and Dewitt). The energy required to heat 5.1E14 m³ of rock from 300K to melting point is therefore 1.9E24 J. The latent heat of fusion for SiO2 is at least 250 kJ/kg (ref. CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics 50th Edition), which adds 3E23 J to the energy estimate. This leads to a grand total of 2.2E24 J.

18.05 E14>2.2E24. Unless I screwed up my placement (possible, as the computer calculator doesn't present things in Sci.Not.) An Acclamator can do a BDZ in under an hour.

[Master of Ossus]

An HOUR? Really? This indicates that an ISD should be able to BDZ a planet in only MINUTES, as numerous Acclamators are required for the task. Even if we assume that it only takes three Acclamators to perform such an operation, that would drop the time to 20 minutes, and increase the firepower of an ISD that has been derived from all BDZ calculations. A BDZ takes (if these calculations are correct) at the most 30 minutes.

[Ender]

Thank yu for the answers. Would ion cannons be used as they could destroy the remaining power gid of the planet? Also, would the Empire erve use antimatter if they could get their hand on it? You could just pour it into the planet's atmosphere and when it came into contact whit the correct element, the devastation would be enormous.

No Ions would not, simply because there would be no remaining power grid. A BDZ melts the surface of a planet, LITERALLY. IT would just be a bunch of lava.

As for AM, They have it (anyone have a specific reference? I can't think of one off the top of my head) byt why do that which would be less efficient and take longer?

[The Dude]

An HOUR? Really? This indicates that an ISD should be able to BDZ a planet in only MINUTES, as numerous Acclamators are required for the task. Even if we assume that it only takes three Acclamators to perform such an operation, that would drop the time to 20 minutes, and increase the firepower of an ISD that has been derived from all BDZ calculations. A BDZ takes (if these calculations are correct) at the most 30 minutes.

Ossus, please remember that all of the BDZ calcs include the dubious assumption of 100% efficiency. The 100% efficency assumption is useful when translating an observed effect into a lower limit energy requirement figure, but it is not appropriate to use it in the reverse (i.e. when calculating the time required based upon known energy requirement and yield figures). The real time required will be inversely proportional to the true overall efficiency.

[Ender]

An HOUR? Really? This indicates that an ISD should be able to BDZ a planet in only MINUTES, as numerous Acclamators are required for the task. Even if we assume that it only takes three Acclamators to perform such an operation, that would drop the time to 20 minutes, and increase the firepower of an ISD that has been derived from all BDZ calculations. A BDZ takes (if these calculations are correct) at the most 30 minutes.

Note I left off those huge Torp launchers on the Acclamators, which should be planetary assault scale and be High GT if not TT. Also, I assumed it would oriuentate itself so all guns could fire at the planet, which menas it would need to put it;self into an orbit that would circle the earth in about 30 minuets first, then reorientate itself, then move to the lower hemisphere and do it all again.

Ok, I did the numbers to try to figure out the BDZ time for an ISD, but I fubared somewhere, since I ended up doing a BDZ in under a minute using bean's numbers. I'll try and figure out where I went wrong, but here is what I came up with:

As for the ISDs Depends on the figs used

Mr. Beans 200 GT MTLs, 1 TT HTLs, 50 GT LTL, ISD MK2
64 HTls, 60 MTls, 60 LTLs @ those values = 79000000000000 tons * 4.18E9 Joules = 330220000000000000000000 joules per volley * 1800 = 594.396E24 joules in an hours time, or 270.18 times the firepower required, meaning .22 minutes (minus the travel time, which would up it a bit as it has to fly around the globe)


My 1.6GT MTLs, 50 GT HTLs, 400 MT LTLs, ISD mk2
64 HTls, 60 MTls, 60 LTLs @ those values = 3320000000000 tons * 4.18E9 joules = 13877600000000000000000 joules per volley * 1800 = 24.97968E24 joules in an hours time. or 11.3544 times the firepower required, meaning 6 minutes (minus the travel time, which would up it a bit as it has to fly around the globe)

Yes, I screwed up somewhere there, tell me if you see it because it might mean the Acclamator numbers are off aswell.

[Ender]

An HOUR? Really? This indicates that an ISD should be able to BDZ a planet in only MINUTES, as numerous Acclamators are required for the task. Even if we assume that it only takes three Acclamators to perform such an operation, that would drop the time to 20 minutes, and increase the firepower of an ISD that has been derived from all BDZ calculations. A BDZ takes (if these calculations are correct) at the most 30 minutes.

Oh, and keep in mind that since an Acclamator, unlike an ISD does not carry fighters, the other Acclamators might be there to stop any ships that take off, like the TIEs would for an ISD.

[Connor MacLeod]

The BDZ is done with the Turbolasers since the missles are not their heaviest weapons and it would be a waste., but the missles can deliver biological warheads if that is the effect the Imperial Commander so desires.

Actually, the BDZ's that Acclamators are capable of do involve the use of proton torpedo fire, and numerous ships (lending further credence to the assumption that BDZ's are fast, since a single Acclamator would be capable of the feat, over about a day's time). ISD's, however, are capable of BDZ's using only their turbolasers and other energy weapons.

Not to mention that They are probably bigass things comparable (if not greater) in yield to the TLs - there's only 4 launchers.... what good would a low-yield protorp do in a BDZ if they were vastly inferior to the TLs?

[Connor MacLeod]

As for AM, They have it (anyone have a specific reference? I can't think of one off the top of my head) byt why do that which would be less efficient and take longer?

AFAIK Antimatter warheads can be employed on republic gunships.rr

[Ender]

Not to mention that They are probably bigass things comparable (if not greater) in yield to the TLs - there's only 4 launchers.... what good would a low-yield protorp do in a BDZ if they were vastly inferior to the TLs?

Those launchers are bigger then the capital scale ones found on a VicStar 1, which I was able to get 9 GT for low end. Those babies are the kind a Torpedo sphere would use for knocking down shields.

[Connor MacLeod]

Of the sources I have heard Saxton used in making the ICS, I feel that two of them were biassed. One unintentionally , the other being very intentional. That is as far as I am willing to go. The names I was given were told to me in secret and I am not going to violate the confidence on the issue.

Bullshit. as HDS has said, many names were given. Mine, Wayne's, Mike, Brian, a person named Andrew Tse (a most excellent and rational person who is a member of Brian Young's Babtech staff), Robert Brown (whom many have bashed in the past.)

So who WERE you talking to and who gave the names?

[Ender]

As for AM, They have it (anyone have a specific reference? I can't think of one off the top of my head) byt why do that which would be less efficient and take longer?

AFAIK Antimatter warheads can be employed on republic gunships.rr

Since 100 KT is the smallest a fusion missile can be, that's what I thought those were.

[Connor MacLeod]

Not to mention that They are probably bigass things comparable (if not greater) in yield to the TLs - there's only 4 launchers.... what good would a low-yield protorp do in a BDZ if they were vastly inferior to the TLs?

Those launchers are bigger then the capital scale ones found on a VicStar 1, which I was able to get 9 GT for low end. Those babies are the kind a Torpedo sphere would use for knocking down shields.

Torpedo spheres are optimized for knocking out shields in a localized manner. For some reason or another they're less effective at capital-scale engagements.

[Connor MacLeod]

Actually we can simplify things. It takes 1e9 megatons to cause a global extinction event (1 million gigatons). An Acclamator Broadside with TLs can deliver 1200 GT per salvo (if we use the 1 bolt/2 second figure from the EGW&T, which is conservative given the canon refire ratesr.) for a sustained firepower of 600 GT/s (I'm too rout of it to convert to watts) -

100,000/600 = 1,667 seconds, or ~28 minutes.

[Connor MacLeod]

I suspect if the Acclamator were able to use both broadsides (or most of them - forward facing?) it could lower this to ~14 minutes

[The Dark]

I can't find any errors in the Acclamator math...everything works out on my scientific calculator, except that it's 18.06e24 if taken to two significant figures (it's 18.058, rounded to 18.06).

Either a BDZ goes much deeper than we thought, or they can be done incredibly quickly.

[Connor MacLeod]

Its also interesting that if we take the "hutt gambit" Nar Shaddaa BDZ literally (its possible - Fel's visualization of the effects, which Edam cites as proof- is not observable fact. Its only the fears of an officer who does not WISH to do a BDZ nor has ever done one. The Essential Chronology equite clearly makes it clear Nar Shadda was to be reduced to molten slag.) gives a timeframe of only 15 minutes. Considering the size of Nar Shadda (far larger than an EArthlike planet) and the fact it was comparable in construction to Coruscant (90+ undergro und manmade levels, multi-kilometer tall towers, etc.) and the fact that 3 Dreadnaught heavy cruisers, 4 Bulk Cruisers, 2 Carrack, and 20 odd Customs pursuit ships were expected to perform this, thats quite impressive.

[Connor MacLeod]

I can't find any errors in the Acclamator math...everything works out on my scientific calculator, except that it's 18.06e24 if taken to two significant figures (it's 18.058, rounded to 18.06).

Either a BDZ goes much deeper than we thought, or they can be done incredibly quickly.

According to the AOTC ICS, the BDZ is meant to reduce the upper crust of the planet to molten slag... up to 20km.

Gimme a bit of time and I can find some interesitng references about depths.

[Connor MacLeod]

Ok.. in the EGW&T there is a weapon (that big repulsor driven tL the NR uses.. I forget what it scalled) has a weapon that is equal in power to one of the 60 MTLS an ISD-1 carries. Such a weapon is said to be able to put a 20 meter hole in DURASTEEL. Melting rock or the crust to that depth should be simple.

Consider the volumes of nickel-iron rock a single ISD TL on lower power settings can vaporize (tens of meters, uip to 100 meter rocks as BY estimated) - that again proves that a single TL should melt the earth to a tremendous depth.

Starfighters of Adumar pages 99-102 - discussion of a munitions manufacturing plant buried "hundreds of feet" below the Cartann city and that the Adumari had bombs (fighter grade?) that could penetrate nearly that deep (they were only stopped by the fact that living quarters were housed above the actual plants.) And reputedly, there were many such manfuacturing facilities located belowground.

Obviously, other higher-tech worlds should be at least capable of simialr, if not greater, keeping in mind that the Adumari were NOT on par with the Empire and such

[Ender]

Torpedo spheres are optimized for knocking out shields in a localized manner. For some reason or another they're less effective at capital-scale engagements.

Probably too damn big, and can be shot down, avoided, or will take out your fleet with it.

[Connor MacLeod]

As for AM, They have it (anyone have a specific reference? I can't think of one off the top of my head) byt why do that which would be less efficient and take longer?

AFAIK Antimatter warheads can be employed on republic gunships.rr

Since 100 KT is the smallest a fusion missile can be, that's what I thought those were.

THe AOTC ICs mentions specifically that the gunship uses a wide variety of missiles that differ in warhead kind (fusion, annihiliation, etc.) as well as the form of "release" - concerntrated or omnidirectional attacks, radiation weapons (like neutron bombs), EMP weapons, and so on.

[Connor MacLeod]

Torpedo spheres are optimized for knocking out shields in a localized manner. For some reason or another they're less effective at capital-scale engagements.

Probably too damn big, and can be shot down, avoided, or will take out your fleet with it.

No, I mean damage wise

[Ender]

Ok.. in the EGW&T there is a weapon (that big repulsor driven tL the NR uses.. I forget what it scalled) has a weapon that is equal in power to one of the 60 MTLS an ISD-1 carries. Such a weapon is said to be able to put a 20 meter hole in DURASTEEL. Melting rock or the crust to that depth should be simple.

Consider the volumes of nickel-iron rock a single ISD TL on lower power settings can vaporize (tens of meters, uip to 100 meter rocks as BY estimated) - that again proves that a single TL should melt the earth to a tremendous depth.

Starfighters of Adumar pages 99-102 - discussion of a munitions manufacturing plant buried "hundreds of feet" below the Cartann city and that the Adumari had bombs (fighter grade?) that could penetrate nearly that deep (they were only stopped by the fact that living quarters were housed above the actual plants.) And reputedly, there were many such manfuacturing facilities located belowground.

Obviously, other higher-tech worlds should be at least capable of simialr, if not greater, keeping in mind that the Adumari were NOT on par with the Empire and such

I remember someone once mentioning that life exists on this planet up to one mile below the surface. 1) is this BS
2) How much energy to melt to that depth, since part of the BDS is extinguish "all life"