Left4Dead

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TheFeniX
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Left4Dead

Post by TheFeniX »

So, I was chomping at the bit for release. I took off work a bit early yesterday to FedEx some documents for a client, which worked out well because I was able to pick the game up without dealing with Rush Hour.

The campaign play is pretty much what you'd expect from the demo. Teamwork and understanding how the zombies think. A good understanding of how the director thinks goes a long way. If you've just run into 3 special zeds, you can generally push fast for a bit to get some distance. Thankfully, I found two guys on XBLive during the demo run that friended me because two of my other friends couldn't get the game. The scenarios are set piece. There is no real campaign or storyline besides "Get to rescue." To me this is great because it means valve can easily make new set-pieces (as can the dev community). I'm hoping MS doesn't force them to charge for them, but I'm not betting on it.

Now, for the fun part: Versus mode. It's not perfect, but damn is it fun. And teamwork is paramount for the infected as well. There is nothing more satisfying than having a smoker on a roof-top or down a hall making some noise to get the survivors distracted, then having the boomer move up from behind to throw-up on them. Once the horde is on them, the smoke and hunter(s) attack for massive damage.

Here's how it actually works: both teams get a shot at each section of a campaign as survivors and infected. Win or lose for the survivors, the teams switch, and you play it again. The infected spawn near the survivors, but in an invisible mode. You have to find a safe location to spawn, then you can join in and make your move. Survivors can't hide, they are always visible to the infected. Spawn times are a bit long (for good reason) and the infected die fast if they don't play smart.

At some point, depending on time or how bad/good you're doing, someone will spawn as a tank. He's tough, but won't stand a chance against all 4 survivors. And you have to press the attack or you "loose control" of him. I don't know if that means he dies, or you just go back into the spawn queue. He works great in conjunction with a boomer. Have the tank move up from the front, the boomer pushes the back or side. Once the horde hits, move the tank in with the hunters/smokers pick off any runners. These tactics pushed us to victory numerous times. But the end of the game, it was like 950 to 150. I kind of felt bad because our communication was excellent, and two people on the other team didn't even have mics.

All in all, this game is great. It has it's flaws though. Some hit-code is off for the infected. There's a definite lag sometimes when pouncing on someone as hunter, and it won't always hit. The boomer has issues getting stuck to invisible walls. Luckily, the smoker's long range attack is fairly forgiving. As long as the reticule is red when you fire your tongue, you are pretty much given the hit unless they make it to cover. And you'd do well to try and pull them to ledges so even if you die before knocking them down, they still need to be rescued (and they can't fight back). I'd say this game is at least an 8/10. It's nothing really new if you've played some zombie mods, but (like Gears of War) the implementation is excellent. This game delivers on what was promised.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by SylasGaunt »

I've been playing it on and off since last night. Played a couple versus rounds and had a blast today when I finally got to be the tank on the finale for the Farm scenario. The survivors had been doing okay holding us off until then but when I got in there I made it a point to bat them out the windows and separate them from each other so the still swarming horde and the other guys could pick them off.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Braedley »

I haven't had the chance to play the full version yet, but saw a review on Ars this morning. My favourite part:
Ars Technica wrote:If you're doing well as a team, expect more enemies and a tougher challenge. If you're getting beaten up, you'll see fewer enemies. If you're really getting torn to pieces? Sometimes the director throws you a tank, one of the game's special enemies. You see, the director is something of a dick.
Can't wait to get online with 3 of my friends, but it probably won't be until this weekend.
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TheFeniX
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by TheFeniX »

SylasGaunt wrote:I've been playing it on and off since last night. Played a couple versus rounds and had a blast today when I finally got to be the tank on the finale for the Farm scenario. The survivors had been doing okay holding us off until then but when I got in there I made it a point to bat them out the windows and separate them from each other so the still swarming horde and the other guys could pick them off.
The problem with most tanks is that they do exactly what the computer does: focus on one player and beat them to death (unless it happens to knock a player far back enough so they are out of range). The Tank's primary task should be to cause confusion and panic and to, as you did, split the survivors up.

In all seriousness: the tank should almost never get an actual kill, but players online play him as "We got a tank, this game is over.... wtf I died already?"
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Panzer Grenadier »

I'm kinda on the fence with this one. I played the demo on xbox and had fun, but couldn't quite shake the feeling that I'm going to be paying 60 bucks for a very nice Half-Life 2 mod. For anyone who has the full version how are the other levels?
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TheFeniX
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by TheFeniX »

Panzer Grenadier wrote:I'm kinda on the fence with this one. I played the demo on xbox and had fun, but couldn't quite shake the feeling that I'm going to be paying 60 bucks for a very nice Half-Life 2 mod. For anyone who has the full version how are the other levels?
As said in my OP: there is no real story to this game. The characters have lines, but they relate to what the character sees based on (what I would assume) is a map variable. If you see a safe-house door, your character may or may not point it out.

There are 4 set-piece scenarios with 5 chapters (safe-houses/checkpoints) apiece that range in difficulty. No Mercy in my opinion is the hardest. The rooftop battle is difficult even on normal. The game generates it's appeal through random spawn locations for everything (weapons, health-packs, zombies both normal and special). The director, as stated by Braedley, as there to determine how well you are doing and to make your life difficult. On higher difficulties, teamwork and planning becomes even more important as even a few regular zeds can take you down in no time flat.

Yes, this is a very nice HL2 mod using the source engine. It's basically an updated version of zombie mod with a few perks to make it interesting. I believe it is worth the money provided you find the right people to play it with. It's boring as Hell in Single Player and excruciating when you get stuck with even 1 guy on your team who doesn't listen.

I can't tell you whether this is your game or not, but I will say that gaming with my CoD4 buddies is a whole different experience. We applaud someone for a nice shot or good save and we viciously chew out anyone who does something stupid or doesn't inform us about a situation that has come up.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by SylasGaunt »

TheFeniX wrote:The problem with most tanks is that they do exactly what the computer does: focus on one player and beat them to death (unless it happens to knock a player far back enough so they are out of range). The Tank's primary task should be to cause confusion and panic and to, as you did, split the survivors up.

In all seriousness: the tank should almost never get an actual kill, but players online play him as "We got a tank, this game is over.... wtf I died already?"
To be fair I have seen a Tank team-wipe the other guys, but it's important he have some kind of support, either attacking in the middle of a horde swarm or with the other team members providing support.

Probably the easiest place for the Tank to really shred the other team is in the No Mercy finale. Huge knockback + rooftop = easy kills if you take the extra second or two to line it up.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by SylasGaunt »

Also new annoyance for Versus- Hunters who pounce Smoker victims. I mean seriously dumb-ass, if I'm strangling a guy don't pounce him so you can steal a few points, pounce one of the other damn survivors so there's one less guy to try and rescue him.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Death from the Sea »

I finally got around to playing the solo campaign and was somewhat disappointed that the game is so short... luckily the multi-player makes up for it.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Acidburns »

Even though the game is short, it does have some good re-playability. I think there's more variety in the maps than in say, TF2. At least the mod community is off to a flying start.

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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Terralthra »

The versus is fun, but there are some major balance issues and bugs. The Tank showing up in versus is just objectively more powerful than the other Infected, and having him show up because the Survivors are doing good on level 1 (with only the shit weapons) in the right place is practically a guaranteed team wipe. Not showing up in the same place, not to mention sometimes not even spawning for both teams, is like playing a football game where one team starts at midfield and the other starts at their own goal line.

Also, melee is broken and buggy. A survivor in a corner, or 2-3 survivors against a wall and cooperating, can easily survive any horde which doesn't include a tank by simply meleeing. Alternating between "previous weapon" and "melee" makes the melee attack 3-4 times faster, and it neuters Boomers and successfully defends against Hunters and Smokers.

With those two combined, the game becomes a battle of "Who gets the tank in the right place?" And that's simply not that fun.

This isn't even getting into the things like guns shooting through walls to easily kill Boomers and Hunters who were never even spotted. Try it on the prelude to the Finale on No Mercy: you can basically shoot from the staircase out of the safe room all the way to the elevator shaft with the ladder to the roof, THROUGH THE WALLS. A spray or two with the assault rifle or a spread of hunting rifle shots will kill any Boomer hiding in those rooms, and with it dies any chance the Infected have to delay or harm a Survivor team before the radio, if the Survivors move at any decent clip.

The game is fun, don't get me wrong, but with 8 competent players who know the ways to abuse the engine, it gets lame very fast.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Erik von Nein »

Never play VS with AIs in the survivor's team. They automatically know where any special infected are (unless you really get the drop on them) and they gun you down immediately an unerringly.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by SylasGaunt »

Also, melee is broken and buggy. A survivor in a corner, or 2-3 survivors against a wall and cooperating, can easily survive any horde which doesn't include a tank by simply meleeing. Alternating between "previous weapon" and "melee" makes the melee attack 3-4 times faster, and it neuters Boomers and successfully defends against Hunters and Smokers.
Unless of course you barf on them instead of trying to get close enough to blow. Also you do know a hunter pouncing into a gorup will stagger the others?

Yes two survivors in a corner is tough for a boomer, that's why it's neccesary for the infected to work together since they're so much more fragile than the humans.

The previous weapon/melee thing does sound like a bug that needs fixing though.
This isn't even getting into the things like guns shooting through walls to easily kill Boomers and Hunters who were never even spotted. Try it on the prelude to the Finale on No Mercy: you can basically shoot from the staircase out of the safe room all the way to the elevator shaft with the ladder to the roof, THROUGH THE WALLS. A spray or two with the assault rifle or a spread of hunting rifle shots will kill any Boomer hiding in those rooms, and with it dies any chance the Infected have to delay or harm a Survivor team before the radio, if the Survivors move at any decent clip.
I've actually never seen this happen. If it does it needs fixing.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Terralthra »

SylasGaunt wrote:Unless of course you barf on them instead of trying to get close enough to blow. Also you do know a hunter pouncing into a gorup will stagger the others?
You barf on them, they melee the ensuing zombies to death while never suffering a scratch. What's the problem, again? Also, Hunters have to successfully pounce to stagger the others. If the hunter gets meleed out of the air, no stagger.
SylasGaunt wrote:Yes two survivors in a corner is tough for a boomer, that's why it's neccesary for the infected to work together since they're so much more fragile than the humans.
Working together, they still get destroyed by melee abuse and shooting through walls.
SylasGaunt wrote:The previous weapon/melee thing does sound like a bug that needs fixing though.
Oh yeah.
SylasGaunt wrote:I've actually never seen this happen. If it does it needs fixing.
It happens. You can shoot through most walls, and some seem to be even more penetrable than others.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Zablorg »

The brokeness of melee sounds pretty discouraging, and I fear it's not something that will be brought to Valve's attention sufficiently to have it changed.

I'm also sitting on the hedge with getting this game. I don't have anyone else who has this game on PC which is what I'm planning on playing it on. Is there much of a change of pace when your teammates are over the internet?
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by TheFeniX »

We just played another round of versus on No Mercy the other night. We ended up winning 2400 to 250. There were two guys abusing melee, but it didn't do them any good. We'd make our hunters just randomly leap around and the smokers to pick them off when they split up. We had three of them rush a screaming hunter around a corner only to meet a boomer to cover three of them. We even got a real boon on the first level when I was able to drag one survivor to the car with the alarm.

There's a few things that pissed me off. They were getting at least one tank on every level, sometimes two (which we would demolish quickly). We didn't get one until Chapter 5. I was spectating the guy on the minigun and saw "TheFeniX will become the tank." Finally! Then I see a tank run out in front of the minigun FoF and go into the throw animation. I then became the tank (doing the throw) and by the time it was over I had about 200 HP left and quickly died. Fucking bullshit.

At least when the chopper came and all four survivors were going to make it, Chris became the Tank and (of course, with no time to do anything) he DID manage to knock Louis through the chopper and to his death.
Zablorg wrote:I'm also sitting on the hedge with getting this game. I don't have anyone else who has this game on PC which is what I'm planning on playing it on. Is there much of a change of pace when your teammates are over the internet?
Idiots will get you wiped out quickly. The main thing in versus is to move fast, but controlled. The guy at the back needs to call out immediately if he even begins to fall behind. But having at least one guy survive is better than none.

Map knowledge is supreme in versus. While playing on campaign, you'll want to find good locations to setup shop and heal so you're better prepared for VS. This game is just not fun for me in single player. Maybe if I wanted to whore some of the harder achievements (like expert completion), I'd play single player. But, I'd much rather do it with 3 friends and have a Hell of a go at it.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Andrew_Fireborn »

I was playing versus last night with my group. We were doing pretty well as the survivors. (About half of both teams was on the same Ventrillo server.)

The other team got a tank within the first minute of THREE chapters. (Literally first spawn on chapter 2 of No Mercy.) We got two total, but still managed to keep them from getting much father than us in every chapter but the finale. (Which is an almost guaranteed 200 points for distance. And neither side managed to make it long enough for the chopper to even show up.)

There's no real balance at all to it in that way. Tier two weapons can wreak a tank, but the tank still has a lot of health. Tier one is almost pointless unless you're in an open area. (Although tanks really don't like being lit on fire.) For the infected, it kinda boils down to "hope you get a tank in time for it to be useful, then hope the guy piloting it isn't terribad."


That said, it was really damn fun. Outside of getting smashed out of the gate twice... (Got their tank the third time it happened.)
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by SylasGaunt »

Terralthra wrote: It happens. You can shoot through most walls, and some seem to be even more penetrable than others.
That you're supposed to be able to do to a degree. The varying penetration on materials is a Source engine thing. Thin plaster walls get penetrated more easily than others. The way you worded it made it sound like they could fire through the walls from one end of the hall to the other.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Braedley »

There's even one of those loading hints that specifically says you can shoot through walls and doors, and that the hunting rifle round will go through just about anything. Personally, I find I'm better off jumping around a corner and putting three or four quick shots in with an auto-shotty into a hunter if I hear one. No sense screwing around with shooting through walls when you can guarantee a kill without taking much, if any damage.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Terralthra »

SylasGaunt wrote:
Terralthra wrote: It happens. You can shoot through most walls, and some seem to be even more penetrable than others.
That you're supposed to be able to do to a degree. The varying penetration on materials is a Source engine thing. Thin plaster walls get penetrated more easily than others. The way you worded it made it sound like they could fire through the walls from one end of the hall to the other.
On that level, you can.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by inasilentway »

what a good game! what act do you guys like the most?
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Chardok »

You know....I see several people on here talking about how they played, and they're all on my friends list, yet I see no one ever playing! So this limits me to PuGs (Pick-up Groups) and idiots are pervasive. PERVASIVE. I don't even play Vs. anymore because it seems like I'm always on the team made up of two rambos and two decent players who actuallyl stay together and help each other. In one game, I got pounced almost immediately, and the hunter was able to stay on top of me and SLASH ME UNTIL DEAD from full health. That takes awhile and all the while, I watched my team continue up the stairs, into the hallway, up the other flight of stairs to the second floor. laa la la. And guess what? NO ONE SAID A WORD. Not one word. so Eff that. I played co-op on Blood Harvest last night, which was fun, But we had a 12 year old on the team, of COURSE, who thought "LOLS I CAN SAY CUSS WORDS REALLY LOUDZ AND ZOMGZMOBIE DEFIOJFOSIDMALKSRJ@ROI YAAARR! OH NO OH NO OH NO! NO YOU DIDN'T WHOA! YEAH! IN YOUR FACE! WHAT? BULLSH$*CFK FWOPIJVIOJWTRGIJWETOGIJTWFRLKJASDF *Kick*.


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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Andrew_Fireborn »

Sorry Char. It's kinda a personal rule that unless it's system exclusive, I get an FPS for the computer.

Since they're not cross compatible, afaik, I can't help ya out too much.
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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Chardok »

Andrew_Fireborn wrote:Sorry Char. It's kinda a personal rule that unless it's system exclusive, I get an FPS for the computer.

Since they're not cross compatible, afaik, I can't help ya out too much.


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Re: Left4Dead

Post by Death from the Sea »

I have been playing COD:WAW alot lately. I need to get back to L4D
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