T:SCC 2x10: "Strange Things Happen At The One Two Point"

[Shroom Man 777]

I disagree, but that's okay.

Look, when he was looking at Cameron, you could feel that he despised her and was wary and suspicious. When he was looking at Jesse, I was afraid and I thought he'd rip her head off.

Oh for the love of jove...this isn't the OC, so can we stop any discussion about shipping Derek and Cameron right here and now?

Well, I am going to sign off, so I'll PM you tomorrow.

I'm going to sleeps!

[Anguirus]

Can I also get in on this hot PM action?

[Faqa]

An easier explanation might be that Skynet has access to FBI files and that Ellison was the leading agent on the Connor case who spent years searching for them.

And he no longer is, as Cromartie should easily have been able to determine. So why keep following him?

Remember, the sticking point here is that even AFTER radically altered circumstances, Cromartie still thought Ellison would hook up with the Connors.

No, I do not think she is part of a third faction, her disregard for human live is way too high for that.

Erm, Weaver is a Terminator. They're specifically not programmed to have much regard for human life, at least initially. Both Cameron and Uncle Bob had to learn these lessons at some point.

Why would this change just because she's not on Skynet's side?

You know, I really wonder what Jessie and Riley's game is. They're blatantly manipulating Connor, not just driving a wedge between him and Cameron to "stop her" as they say, but also between him and his mother - they're making him a moron. Whatever their intentions are, it's not noble, from what I see.

Perhaps they don't regard Sarah's influence as especially important? John Connor is John Connor, and a fair portion of what he is has to be genetics. Either that, or they regard Cameron's influence as just THAT negative.

[PREDATOR490]

Sarah Connor died before some of these people were born and it is fairly apparant that John dosent talk about his past to other resistance members except Cameron. That might be part of the problem from those on the outside's perspective.
If the only person that has access to him is a machine then you can expect more than a few resistance members will see that as a problem. These are afterall people who have surivived Judgement Day watching everything they knew burn to the ground while their leader sits in isolation with a machine for company. Jesse claims that Connor's leadership is getting people killed in the future and from what we have seen, a portion of those deaths will be caused by the reprogrammed terminators they are using going bad. If Jesse is to believed, the reason she is here is because one of those Terminators attempted to kill her although in light of this episode that story seems largely unlikely. Hence, Jessie and co. no doubt consider Sarah a non-factor compared to getting Cameron out of the picture although realistically once Connor finds out about this deception he is going to be pushed closer to trusting Cameron over human resistance members.

I dont think Riley is as much to blame in this situation, Jessie seems to be actively pushing her into the role and Connor's own teenage stupidity is more to blame for the trouble they are getting in. With any luck, John will actually get some common sense knocked into him rather than letting everyone else fight the war for him. If anything I find Terminator hilarious in the fact everyone looks at John as being an awesome leader of humanity worth dying for yet he does very little so far.
With all the effort Skynet expends on trying to kill him and those close to him, one would think it would be a lot more effective to send more Weaver style units to take over and replace key positions or put them in other continents where the Connors cannot interfere.

That said, the future aspect of Terminator's timeline is rather screwy anyway. Logically the future Cameron comes from shouldnt exist since they automatically changed it the moment they used that time machine to go forward. Instead of being 44, Connor will now be 36 by 2027 unless this has all been one massive pre-destination paradox where the future Connor was 36 to begin with.

[Shroom Man 777]

John's a 16 year old kid, I don't think he'll be a Great Military Leader until after a while...

[PREDATOR490]

The way he is acting, he wont be a great military leader at all. The whole premise of the show is based around Sarah trying to 'change his fate' thus if they prevent Judgement Day John ends up a leader of nothing. IF Judgement Day does occur, then Sarah and Cameron will end up becoming more important members of the resistance than John. As of yet, there has been nothing impressive about what John actually does in the future to make him such a great leader.

[Shroom Man 777]

Look, we only see the Future War in flashbacks. We can't exactly get an accurate summary of the Connor Campaign, complete with tactical and strategic breakdowns. However, John was good enough to force Skynet into temporal warfare - so yeah.


Thanas, I am eagerly awaiting that PM of yours containing the scientific rationale of stuff.

[Thanas]

An easier explanation might be that Skynet has access to FBI files and that Ellison was the leading agent on the Connor case who spent years searching for them.

And he no longer is, as Cromartie should easily have been able to determine. So why keep following him?

Because Cromartie found out that Ellison is still looking after them? Or he simply made the determination on his own.

The way he is acting, he wont be a great military leader at all. The whole premise of the show is based around Sarah trying to 'change his fate' thus if they prevent Judgement Day John ends up a leader of nothing. IF Judgement Day does occur, then Sarah and Cameron will end up becoming more important members of the resistance than John. As of yet, there has been nothing impressive about what John actually does in the future to make him such a great leader.

I disagree - so far he has been shown to think on his feet quite good and he is very proficient in weapons, both indicators of a succesful military career. Let's also not forget the important decisions he made in the past and which all turned out to be in favor of the resistance or the connor clan, like using Cameron to hack into the LA traffic network. If John had not argued for that, they would have failed there.

Thanas, I am eagerly awaiting that PM of yours containing the scientific rationale of stuff.

I am writing it, though because I have to look for some webclips it is taking longer than I expected.

[Peptuck]

I disagree - so far he has been shown to think on his feet quite good and he is very proficient in weapons, both indicators of a succesful military career. Let's also not forget the important decisions he made in the past and which all turned out to be in favor of the resistance or the connor clan, like using Cameron to hack into the LA traffic network. If John had not argued for that, they would have failed there.

Not to mention he's also shown the basics of being a good leader as its always been taught to me: courage, selflessness, assertiveness (or at least attempts at it, with his mother and Cameron getting in the way), and a willingness to trust and accept others - to a ludicrious degree, when one considers he saved Cameron even after she turned on him. He's just suffering right now from a combination of a lack of experience, the fact that he's a confused, hormone addled teenager, and the sheer goddamn weight of HOLY SHIT I'VE GOT TO SAVE MANKIND.

Oh, and he witnessed a man trying to strangle his mother to death - a man whose neck he then proceeded to break. Honestly, considering all the shit he's been through by this point, the fact that John has come out as well-adjusted as he is (a moody, confused, borderline suicidal teenager who makes a few idiotic decisions and then lives with the consequences) is nothing short of amazing.

[Crazedwraith]

This episode confuses me greatly. What was Sarah trying to accomplish? She seemed to be helping a company she suspects of helping create Skynet, stay above water and in buisness by getting them a super powerful chip?

The company going under after they nicked the guy's hard drives, wasn't this what Sarah wanted?

[Shroom Man 777]

She had to know more about what their doing so she could ruin their shit more effectively.

[Crazedwraith]

She had to know more about what their doing so she could ruin their shit more effectively.

There shit was already ruined when she nicked their hardware. They only thing she could do to ruin his shit more was put a bullet between his eyes. Which is she felt he was building skynet, she should have done.

She did not need to give them all her money

[Shroom Man 777]

She obviously wanted to learn more about those minamoto microchip dudes.

[Thanas]

She had to know more about what their doing so she could ruin their shit more effectively.

There shit was already ruined when she nicked their hardware. They only thing she could do to ruin his shit more was put a bullet between his eyes. Which is she felt he was building skynet, she should have done.

She did not need to give them all her money

Well, hard drives are not really the only thing. What if they made backups and stored them somewhere secret? I know I would as a tech company.

She really needed to know how far they were, and once she recognized their predicament, what better position to sabotage an enterprise from than partner and financier?

[PREDATOR490]

Sarah Connor has been shown to be rather excessive when she gets driven. In this case she was trying hard to find validation for the 3 dots bullshit and I imagine she didnt want to leave a single loose end behind. She tried doing the simple hardware destruction on Andy's house only for the Turk to be rebuilt into a bigger problem so digging into the company and making sure absolutly everything is torched is the only option.

[charlemagne]

Well, hard drives are not really the only thing. What if they made backups and stored them somewhere secret? I know I would as a tech company.

To be fair, in a way: that is never adressed right in movies/TV shows. The "delete" button is a magic thing there that totally destroys all files with no way in hell to reconstruct them, and no one backups anything.