Pick the 40K novel I read next

[Connor MacLeod]

Frankly I've just finished Lord of the Night which I rather liked for its take on the Night Lords, but I can't really decide what to read next. I dont want to (yet) read Cain or the Ghosts, ,because I'm following the "save the best for last" policy and I plan on rereading the earlier Ghosts/Cain stuff as well.

That said, I have some books that have been sitting on the shelf for awhile and I plan to read them, but I figured since some of you might want to see a specific one, I figure I'd give options. They are the following:

- Space Marine by Ian Watson

- Farseer by William King

- Faith and Fire by James Swallow

- Hammer of Daemons by Ben Counter (hey, its got chaos in it)

- Ravenor Returned and Ravenor Rogue (I read the first one, but I never finished the series because I got into toher stuff.)

- other (excludes the Ghosts novels and Cain, b ecause of the reasons I already mentioned. I don't have any Horus Heresy novels yt, so dont ask for those either. And I'm still avoiding Graham McNeill, so no Ultramarines.)

Personally I'm inclining towards one of the first three, probably Space Marine or Farseer, but I figured since some of you might want to see one or the other I'd ask.

[Connor MacLeod]

Also, as a side issue.. what would others think if, after Necropolis, I decided to stop coveirng the Ghosts stuff again and go with the Inquisition War novels? I'v ebeen kinda wanting to do those, and Eye of Terror, because they're more "old-school" type 40K and have a different flavor that I learned to appreciate (even if Chaos Child was a bit of a disappointment.)

Plus, wh ile alot of people may have read the Ghosts novels and know that shit already, I doubt most people know about the IW stuff (and thats a huge reason I do this.. )

[Bob the Gunslinger]

First of all: how did you acquire a copy of Space Marine? And may I have it (or just read it) when you're done, please?

Anyway, I'd suggest Farseer next, just for the Eldar super-weapon thingy, but I don't really remember too much else about it that was interesting, in a calculable sort of way. Faith and Fire was pretty good, but I doubt it would give you much new ground to cover. Of the books you mentioned, I am most excited about the Inquisition War trilogy calcs, for pretty much the same reasons you mentioned and also because I couldn't finish it myself, as well as Space Marine, because I just can't seem to get a hold of that book.

You might also like to do Space Wolf, which will give you more of the old school feel, but a lot more combat and Space Marine lore to examine.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I'm a big fan of Faith and Fire. It had a couple flaws that detracted from it a bit IMO, but it was definitely one of the better 40k books I've read. It's a fun one-off adventure kind of thing, no series baggage to deal with.

[Morilore]

Hammer of Daemons is kind of fun, but it's got nothing to do with the 40k galaxy. Seriously. It's a misplaced Warhammer Fantasy book at best.

[Feil]

Counter and Swallow can't write, so I recommend anything but those options. Of course, the other authors may not know how to write, either, except for Abnett, who can write, but sometimes doesn't feel like it.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Ian Watson was established in his own right long before 40K got it's claws into him, about a dozen books to his credit; I'd call him Brian Aldiss- lite, similar sort of range and concern with human wierdness when faced with the science- fictional. Inquisitor (the original title of Draco) really wasn't the sort of thing anyone expected from him when it was written.

Space Marine is good, if a little disconnected from later fluff- no bad thing IMO. There are a few wierd incidents that deserve a close look, including Spoiler

a scout marine squad hijacking a titan

but it is a refreshingly fleshed out take.

[Connor MacLeod]

First of all: how did you acquire a copy of Space Marine? And may I have it (or just read it) when you're done, please?

Off Amazon. There's been copies for sale, but until recently you had to fork voer 100 bucks or so for it. I didnt pay that much, but I paid quite a bit more than what it was originally worth (its a hobby of mine as well as liking to be a completist. Don't ask me what I paid for WEg books, B5 Game books, or Renegade Legion supplements either )

As for reading it, we'll see. If you're serious about it, ask me in a PM.

Anyway, I'd suggest Farseer next, just for the Eldar super-weapon thingy, but I don't really remember too much else about it that was interesting, in a calculable sort of way.

Thats what I thought, but also because the Rogue Trader dude looked darn neat.

Faith and Fire was pretty good, but I doubt it would give you much new ground to cover.

Not as much as some books, no, but every novel I have I've skimmed to at least some extent for interesting tidbits and there was some stuff there. The most interesting tidbit there was a "normal" to "psyker" ratio, though the Sororitas Heroine's plasma weapon had some neat/interesting effects

Of the books you mentioned, I am most excited about the Inquisition War trilogy calcs, for pretty much the same reasons you mentioned and also because I couldn't finish it myself, as well as Space Marine, because I just can't seem to get a hold of that book.

I'd calc space marine eventually, but only after I read it. Inquisition War is like the second series I read after (I think ) Execution Hour and Shadow Point. They were among the first novels I ever bought and that analysis has been sitting on my HD longer. (Hell I think I read them before I read the Ghosts or anything of that sort.) I'd kinda like to get them off my HD if I can.

Another one to add to that list is Eye of Terror, since its of the same vintage/variety (and its also more calc heavy). Alot of the short stories in the various short story compilations I've acquired (manyn of which never showed up in LTGB btw) are of similar vintage too (Space Marines that use only laser weapons, for example lol)

Now that I've read through a fair chunk of my novel collection in the past couple years (only a few years to do that. acn you believe I've been virtually reading nothing but 40K novels since 2006? ) I'm starting to slow down, since I'm actually starting to backlog lol.

You might also like to do Space Wolf, which will give you more of the old school feel, but a lot more combat and Space Marine lore to examine.

[/quote]

Already read all four of those, I havent touched the Lightner stuff yet (which while having alot of itneresting technical stuff, lacks alot of the feel King injected into it.)

I'm tempted to put the William King space wolf novel stuff out there too because there's some calc worthy stuff as well, but I'm considering that for the future.

[Connor MacLeod]

Counter and Swallow can't write, so I recommend anything but those options. Of course, the other authors may not know how to write, either, except for Abnett, who can write, but sometimes doesn't feel like it.

Oh I duno abut that. Counter isn't too bad.. I liked alot of Crimson Tears and Bleeding Chalice, and the Grey Knights novels have had their moments (and his Black Templars short story in LTGB is rather good too) but some things he just can't write either. Goto is the same, and many people I've talked to deem him the worst 40K writer (I dont think he's bad, but he's not the best, either.)

Swallow is kinda an... outlier, in my mind. His writing of the Blood Angels wasn't bad, but it felt kinda odd too (kinda like when I was reading Inquisition war, honestly.) I've read his Blood angels novels already, but from what I've seen of Faith and Fire I might like it. (I'm holding back on Red Fury though, because I hate cliffhangers. Though that bit has a nice scene with hypersonic thunderhawks lol./)

[Connor MacLeod]

Hammer of Daemons is kind of fun, but it's got nothing to do with the 40k galaxy. Seriously. It's a misplaced Warhammer Fantasy book at best.

True, but aside from a efw novels (Inquisition War, ,Eye of Terror,) I haven't really dealt directly WITH Chaos forces on their own territory (I'm not really counting Storm of Iron or Lord of the Night, here..) I've got a few novels I have held back on (Pawns of Chaos and Lord of the Night) that I may evnetually get into because at some point I'll have to deal with Chaos (though Chaos forces never really interested me lol.)

[Connor MacLeod]

Fuck.. I just realized. I was also going to add the Fire Warrior novel to that list. That actually may be the only novel that involves Tau I could remotely like. but I may hold off on that too. I've become rather fond of Simon Spurrier's writing and I'd like to keep some of his stuff on standby.

[Lost Soal]

For Chaos, try the Word Bearers novel Dark Apostle, complete with an Ordinatus and Imperator Titan. Its even a good read if you want that kind of thing.

[Feil]

Counter and Swallow can't write, so I recommend anything but those options. Of course, the other authors may not know how to write, either, except for Abnett, who can write, but sometimes doesn't feel like it.

Swallow is kinda an... outlier, in my mind. His writing of the Blood Angels wasn't bad, but it felt kinda odd too (kinda like when I was reading Inquisition war, honestly.) I've read his Blood angels novels already, but from what I've seen of Faith and Fire I might like it. (I'm holding back on Red Fury though, because I hate cliffhangers. Though that bit has a nice scene with hypersonic thunderhawks lol./)

FaF gets sixty cool points for being eminently true to the feel of the universe and even expanding on it in fun and interesting ways, and ten cool points for actually having a plausible reason for massive ground combat in stead of nuking the site from orbit, as opposed to Counter's fucking retarded standby that pouring gigatonnes of thermonuclear death on a target will just make places for the enemy to hide, while invading it with armor and infantry will do the job. It loses forty cool points for having characters flatter than year-old soda, another fifteen for yet another "lol teh whole galaxy in mortal peril" conflict, and fifty-seven for a plot so trite, cliche, and utterly predictable that the only suspense after the first chapter comes from "Oh god, he isn't going to do that is he?" followed shortly by "Fuck, I can't believe he actually did that. Twenty additional cool points are deducted because, like 80% of the BL books I've read, the editor was obviously a cross-eyed monkey with a broken typewriter. If you're just reading for the background, it's great, I guess, but if you want a good novel with your grimdark, you're going to have to look somewhere else.

[Falkenhayn]

Why not the Planetkill Omnibus?

[Bob the Gunslinger]

For Faith and Fire, Feil failed to add 20 cool points for all the Sororitas being named after Firefly characters.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Firewarrior was a pretty good read, with quite a few battle scenes that you'd probably be able to calc. I also quite enjoyed the portrayal of the Tau in this book also, and I usually loathe the Tau.

[Connor MacLeod]

FaF gets sixty cool points for being eminently true to the feel of the universe and even expanding on it in fun and interesting ways, and ten cool points for actually having a plausible reason for massive ground combat in stead of nuking the site from orbit, as opposed to Counter's fucking retarded standby that pouring gigatonnes of thermonuclear death on a target will just make places for the enemy to hide, while invading it with armor and infantry will do the job.

You mean Teteuract's army in Bleeding Chalice? They explicitly said that if it had been a normal city they might just obliterate it from orbit. The problem was that these were that Teteurach's followers, (you know a massive undead chaos army directly manipulated by a pseudo-god?). 40K constructs can be fortified (even without shields) against high yield bombardments, and there are limits to just how much one can "safely" bombard a planet before starting to fuck it up. And shortt of actually incinerating the bodies, or using vortex muntiions, I doubt that you could guarantee eliminating them (simply inflicting burns or blast damage isn't enough. You have to actually obliterate the bodies.) and the kind of bombardment tha twould gurantee that is almost certainly bound to be well above even gigaton range (collectively)

It loses forty cool points for having characters flatter than year-old soda, another fifteen for yet another "lol teh whole galaxy in mortal peril" conflict, and fifty-seven for a plot so trite, cliche, and utterly predictable that the only suspense after the first chapter comes from "Oh god, he isn't going to do that is he?" followed shortly by "Fuck, I can't believe he actually did that. Twenty additional cool points are deducted because, like 80% of the BL books I've read, the editor was obviously a cross-eyed monkey with a broken typewriter. If you're just reading for the background, it's great, I guess, but if you want a good novel with your grimdark, you're going to have to look somewhere else.

Not having actually read it in any detail I can't say, although I admit elements of the story I did notice (the view into the Ecclesiarchy and the whole psyker angle) did seem rather intriguing to me. If its anything like hhis work with the Blood angels novels though, then I think I can see what you might be getting at.

[Connor MacLeod]

For Chaos, try the Word Bearers novel Dark Apostle, complete with an Ordinatus and Imperator Titan. Its even a good read if you want that kind of thing.

It looks quite good and I know quite a bit of whats in it (The Elysiasn are damn impressive in it, and the AdMech's military capabilities in it are bloody insane even aside from the Ordinatus or Titan.) but I want to wait til the sequel shows up before I start reading. I'll probably be reading this before I start Cain or Ghosts again.

Why not the Planetkill Omnibus?

Cuz I know that novel will have alot to quantify/calc, and because the last story with the Gunheads is damn cool. I wanna wait til the Gunheads novel is close to getting out before I consider starting it, because it'll be a bloody 40K Guard novel about TANKS rather than infantry. and Cadian tankers at that. What's not to love?

Firewarrior was a pretty good read, with quite a few battle scenes that you'd probably be able to calc. I also quite enjoyed the portrayal of the Tau in this book also, and I usually loathe the Tau.

Fire Warrior has alot available to it to calc, but what I tend to like is that its not excessively Tau-wank (at least insasmuch as a novel adapted from a FPS video game with a tau hero can be, at least.) but it also tends to have alot more on Tau culture that I noticed, and its not always a "favorable" impression (Even from a Tau perspective) that makes it interesting as a Tau reference. Alot of the more excessive tauwank (ie like the Rogue TRader novels) tend to reduce the tau to more of a one-dimesnional nature.

[Ford Prefect]

Cuz I know that novel will have alot to quantify/calc, and because the last story with the Gunheads is damn cool. I wanna wait til the Gunheads novel is close to getting out before I consider starting it, because it'll be a bloody 40K Guard novel about TANKS rather than infantry. and Cadian tankers at that. What's not to love?

Now we're talking.

[Connor MacLeod]

Just so folks know, I'm going to let this stay up another week or so then I'll decide its officially over.

[Aaron]

I'd go with the Lightner Space Wolf novels, there actually quite decent. If possible I'd recommend you read the Ravenor series second to last and then end with Cain on a high note. I don't know what Abnett was thinking but that series was no where near the quality of Eisenhorn. Mind you I've always wanted to see your take on the Soul Drinkers Omnibus.

[Connor MacLeod]

I'd go with the Lightner Space Wolf novels, there actually quite decent.

Agreed. While they're not even remotely as good as King's original writing, they're still quite good. And they have a ton of useful information IMHO (though they repeat the "miniturized starship" error that a few other novels do.)

If possible I'd recommend you read the Ravenor series second to last and then end with Cain on a high note.

I've read some of Cain already obviously... I merely plan to re-read it at some point for my own eidification. I have "Traitor's Hand" ready to cover, and at some point I may decide to put that one out. But I'd rather get through what I consider the "meh" novels right now, and then focus on the good ones later.

Besides which, there's alot of novels I havent covered yet - I've delibertely left the Kal Jerico novels for that same reason (not as good as Cain, but along the same lines of light-heartedness.) I haven't gotten Abnett's mechanicus novel, or any of the Horus Heresy novels. So I know I'll have some other "so so" stuff to read in the future.

And of course there's the reason that not many people HAVE read the sub-standard stuff I think, or if they did it was very rarely. (While as I said, the Cain and Ghosts novels have been done to death and their contributions are mostly well known.)

I don't know what Abnett was thinking but that series was no where near the quality of Eisenhorn.

Agreed. The first Ravenor novel wasn't half bad, and alot of hte short stories are good as well. But for some reason the second and third novels just tapered off for no reason.

Mind you I've always wanted to see your take on the Soul Drinkers Omnibus.

I have that one done already I read that back in 2006 There are alot of things I dislike about the novel, but it is good in a technical standpoint for certain reasons.

[Lost Soal]

Also, as a side issue.. what would others think if, after Necropolis, I decided to stop coveirng the Ghosts stuff again and go with the Inquisition War novels? I'v ebeen kinda wanting to do those, and Eye of Terror, because they're more "old-school" type 40K and have a different flavor that I learned to appreciate (even if Chaos Child was a bit of a disappointment.)

Plus, wh ile alot of people may have read the Ghosts novels and know that shit already, I doubt most people know about the IW stuff (and thats a huge reason I do this.. )

They'll get their chance soon. Inquisition war is being re-released in Feb 09

[Connor MacLeod]

Yeah, I noticed that. They're rereleasing alot of their novels (one of the few novels I have yet to pick up, Ben Counter's Daemon World, has as well I think.)

[Aaron]

Agreed. The first Ravenor novel wasn't half bad, and alot of hte short stories are good as well. But for some reason the second and third novels just tapered off for no reason.

I figure it's because Eisenhorn actually had him change through the omnibus, going from a puritan to a daemonhost wielding radical. Ravenor didn't seem to change at all and I got the feeling at the end he would be back the status quo in short order. BTW, I noticed at Chapters today there is a new Imperial Guard omnibus out.