"Paul of Dune" - How bad is it?

[The Grim Squeaker]

There's another Dune book out by KJA and the defouler of his father's legacy. Apaprently it's about Paul between "Dune" and the 2-3d books. So... how bad is it?

[General Soontir Fel]

Just to give you a little idea, the book is split about halfway between Paul as Emperor and flashbacks to when Paul was 12 years old, when...

Duke Leto was going to marry a daughter of another noble house, House Ecaz. That house has control over a planet that produces medicinal plants, including the only known cure for a disease a son of Viscount Moritani, who has a blood feud with Ecaz. When Moritani's son dies, the Viscount in revenge, allies with Vladimir Harkonnen, and sends assassins to the wedding. Harkonnen sends his own assassins to use this as an opportunity to kill Paul. The indended bride is killed, and Paul and Ducan Idaho barely escape and have to hide in the jungle while Leto goes to fight against Moritani with his friend, the Archduke of Ecaz (whose name I forgot).

And those are the best parts of the book.

Pretty much everything with Paul as Emperor is stupid. Paul: stupid. Irulan feels like she isn't appreciated enough: stupid. Paul's palace architect using this as an opportunity to assassinate Paul, just to get into the history books: stupid. Count Fenrig and his wife using their daughter to assassinate Paul: stupid. And Paul is talking to himself throughout the book, hammering the readers with the idea that the Jihad is bad but necessary. We know. We've known since the original Dune.

Whoa and behold, color me unsurprised. It's a start of another series! Jessica of Dune, Irulan of Dune, and Leto of Dune are coming.

[Kurgan]

Thanks, sounds like I'll be skipping this one too.

Had to get that in before I start a thread like this a year from now and get it locked!

[Manus Celer Dei]

Count Fenrig and his wife using their daughter to assassinate Paul: stupid.

...what. I thought Fenrig was a eunuch? Is she adopted?

[Bilbo]

Count Fenrig and his wife using their daughter to assassinate Paul: stupid.

...what. I thought Fenrig was a eunuch? Is she adopted?

Eunuch? I thought he was just born sterile. It was the one flaw that kept him from being what Paul became.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Count Fenrig and his wife using their daughter to assassinate Paul: stupid.

...what. I thought Fenrig was a eunuch? Is she adopted?

Eunuch? I thought he was just born sterile. It was the one flaw that kept him from being what Paul became.

Genetic eunuch is the term used in the book. So, yeah, born sterile.

[Imperial Overlord]

Genetic eunuch is the term used in the book. So, yeah, born sterile.

I was under the impression that the term implied he was a genetically a dead end, not that he was sterile. He was a failed Kwisatz Haderach.

On a more important note, is anyone actually paying good money for these books? And if so, shame on you. Those who do are paying to keep KJA writing and in print.

[Thanas]

^That's one workaround, but I do not think it makes sense. Dune flat out says that Fenrig is the better fighter than Paul, so why wouldn't he be the Kwisatz Haderach?

Oh, and what reason do they give for Fenrig to suddenly try to assassinate Paul via proxy if he passed on the chance in Dune itself?

[General Soontir Fel]

Count Fenrig and his wife using their daughter to assassinate Paul: stupid.

...what. I thought Fenrig was a eunuch? Is she adopted?

Yes. Her biological father is Feyd-Ratha Harkonnen.

[Imperial Overlord]

^That's one workaround, but I do not think it makes sense. Dune flat out says that Fenrig is the better fighter than Paul, so why wouldn't he be the Kwisatz Haderach?

Dune flat out says he's a failed Kwisatz Haderach. Paul doesn't see him until he's captured the Imperial Court and recognizes him as such. Fenrnig's abilities are directed inward, making him unable to see the future but invisible to Paul's prescience. Combined with his abilities as a master assassin he is able to kill Paul and does so in some of the future's Paul sees.

Dune page 487

Paul, aware of this from the way that the time nexus boiled, understood at last why he had never seen Fenring along the webs of prescience. Fenring was one of the might-have-beens, an almost Kwisatz Haderach, crippled by a flaw in the genetic pattern-a eunuch, his talent concentrated into furtiveness and inner seclusion.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Count Fenrig and his wife using their daughter to assassinate Paul: stupid.

...what. I thought Fenrig was a eunuch? Is she adopted?

Yes. Her biological father is Feyd-Ratha Harkonnen.

Ah, that makes more sense.

I mean, it's still awful, but at least it's not another example of those guys seemingly having not read the original books beyond a quick skim.

[Guardsman Bass]

Leto goes to fight against Moritani with his friend, the Archduke of Ecaz (whose name I forgot).

I thought Ecaz was an enemy of Leto's back in Dune: House Atreides. It mentions during his trial that he wasn't one of the ones he was counting on.

[Bilbo]

^That's one workaround, but I do not think it makes sense. Dune flat out says that Fenrig is the better fighter than Paul, so why wouldn't he be the Kwisatz Haderach?

Oh, and what reason do they give for Fenrig to suddenly try to assassinate Paul via proxy if he passed on the chance in Dune itself?

It has been a long time since I read "Dune". If I remember right the Emperor asks Fenrig to kill Paul. He mentions that Paul is tired from just killing the Harkonnen (the one played by Sting in the movie) in a duel and that Fenrig could beat him. I took this as Paul was vulnerable. Am I remembering wrong or is it stated in another part that Fenrig could defeat Paul at any time.

[Imperial Overlord]

Fenring is an assassin and Paul has seen his own death, but never his killer, in his visions. When he sees Fenring, he realizes that the probable reason for that is Fenring killing him. See the quote I provided.

[General Soontir Fel]

One more thing: once this series is complete, KJA and BH will have put out twice as many Dune-verse books as Frank Herbert did.

And they'll still claim they're basing it on notes left by BH's dad...

[Thanas]

^That's one workaround, but I do not think it makes sense. Dune flat out says that Fenrig is the better fighter than Paul, so why wouldn't he be the Kwisatz Haderach?

Dune flat out says he's a failed Kwisatz Haderach. Paul doesn't see him until he's captured the Imperial Court and recognizes him as such. Fenrnig's abilities are directed inward, making him unable to see the future but invisible to Paul's prescience. Combined with his abilities as a master assassin he is able to kill Paul and does so in some of the future's Paul sees.

Ah, thank you. I stand corrected then.

A question to those who have read this abomination:
- when did Fayd ever father a child?
- what reason was given for Fenrig to plot now?

[The Grim Squeaker]

^That's one workaround, but I do not think it makes sense. Dune flat out says that Fenrig is the better fighter than Paul, so why wouldn't he be the Kwisatz Haderach?

Dune flat out says he's a failed Kwisatz Haderach. Paul doesn't see him until he's captured the Imperial Court and recognizes him as such. Fenrnig's abilities are directed inward, making him unable to see the future but invisible to Paul's prescience. Combined with his abilities as a master assassin he is able to kill Paul and does so in some of the future's Paul sees.

Ah, thank you. I stand corrected then.

A question to those who have read this abomination:
- when did Fayd ever father a child?

Margot Fenring (Blonde, Bene Gesserit, Married Fenrig) seduced Feyd after his fight with one of the Atreides soldiers in the Baron Harkonnen's slave pits. (The case where the slave wasn't doped, as a result of Thufir Hawat's schemings in the original Dune). She discusses it with Fenrig before going out to do so, and how easy it will be. (That, and implanting command trigger words into the young redheads head).

- what reason was given for Fenrig to plot now?

Dammit man, there's no such thing as shades of grey or moral complexity! Fenrig is an assasin, so he must be a baby killing drug snorting psychopath who's treacherous, venal and drinks the blood of young women used as tanks!
Did I miss anything? (Well, apart from bad writing, Mary sues, Norma godly I invented everything" Holtzmann, machines are bad rar, history is bad, complexity is scary)

[Thanas]

Yeah, but trying to kill Paul now amounts to suicide. Fenrig has no troops, no supporters, what is he to gain from this?

[The Grim Squeaker]

Yeah, but trying to kill Paul now amounts to suicide. Fenrig has no troops, no supporters, what is he to gain from this?

I have no idea, I sure as fuck didn't spend money on the book (Nor did I read it) .

[Nephtys]

So all of Brian and KJA's books have been 'SEE! Look! all of Dad's writings are really about MY stuff! MY giant robots! MY Mary-Sue Time-Ascending supermodel engineer goddess savior! My crazy made up one-note houses!'.

Not surprising at all. I half expect to see Omnius snicker and steeple his fingers, while Fenring plots against Paul in the background, while Erasmus BabyEater goes 'Foolish Hoo-mans. All is going according to plan.'

[Thanas]

Margot Fenring (Blonde, Bene Gesserit, Married Fenrig) seduced Feyd after his fight with one of the Atreides soldiers in the Baron Harkonnen's slave pits. (The case where the slave wasn't doped, as a result of Thufir Hawat's schemings in the original Dune). She discusses it with Fenrig before going out to do so, and how easy it will be. (That, and implanting command trigger words into the young redheads head).

I have to go back to this - it doesn't really make sense to me. Why would the bene gesserit dilute the bloodline of the Harkonnens? I thought their idea was always to breed Feyd and Paul with one of the Emperor's daughters in order to create pure heirs. Why would they decide to go ahead with such a plan?

Is the above-mentioned plan part of the original Dune novel?

[Dark Hellion]

The child was just a bonus consequence. It was just a child with good genetics that was obtained during the main goal of implanting commands into Feyd so the Bene Gesserit could control him later. IIRC.

[Khaat]

I seem to recall the seduction of Feyd Rautha was a "failsafe" to save the bloodline. With no female Atreides heir, the feud was going to push the houses into terminal conflict, so the Bene Gesserit were saving what they could.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Margot Fenring (Blonde, Bene Gesserit, Married Fenrig) seduced Feyd after his fight with one of the Atreides soldiers in the Baron Harkonnen's slave pits. (The case where the slave wasn't doped, as a result of Thufir Hawat's schemings in the original Dune). She discusses it with Fenrig before going out to do so, and how easy it will be. (That, and implanting command trigger words into the young redheads head).

I have to go back to this - it doesn't really make sense to me. Why would the bene gesserit dilute the bloodline of the Harkonnens?

The original plan was for Jessica to have a daughter to be married to the Harkonnens, her screwing up meant that they risked losing the Atreides to the Harkonnens, and the Harkonnens as well down the line.

"Now we risk losing both bloodlines"

I thought their idea was always to breed Feyd and Paul with one of the Emperor's daughters in order to create pure heirs.

No, it was to breed Jessica's daughter with a Harkonnen, with the son being the Kwisatz Haderach.

Why would they decide to go ahead with such a plan?

This was not part of the plan exactly, they were trying to preserve the Harkonnen bloodline (the "best" parts of it) for future meddling, and since the Baron had given them enough headaches (And was a homosexual), they chose to seduce his young ward. (giving them a useful bit of leverage while they were at it).

Is the above-mentioned plan part of the original Dune novel?

The plan with the emperor's daughters? no. Margot Fenrig seducing Feyd was in the original books, as was the reason of preserving the bloodline.

[PainRack]

I'm going to guess one thing. The book will somehow make Leto and Paul out to be noble good guys in distress, and Leto is going to be "powerful", this even though the original books outright state that House Atreides is a poor and relatively weak House, whoose claim to fame is that
1. He trained a small force to be as good or even better than the Sadauker.
2. He had political influence in the Landsraad, but so minute that no one is willing to help him against the Harkonnen kanly that has manipulated him onto Dune.

And of course, Leto is a good guy that is able to help out the Ixians for nothing........ And is "good", despite Hawat being the Master of Assasins, is peaceful despite the kanly decleared against Harkonnen and his refusal to accept "peace", is naive despite Jessica demanding that he accept money to support a morally dubious venture...... the list goes on and on.