Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

Post by Bug-Eyed Earl »

Unabashed patriot gets his wish to serve in Iraq

The Public Recruiting of Jon Alvarez

Everything Jon Alvarez has left is in a 10-by-16-foot shed that overlooks a pond full of bullfrogs in Hannibal. He cooks for two over a campfire -- the other diner is his yellow lab Sadiegirl.

He has no electricity, no running water. Just 54 acres and a plan to build a colonial up on the ridge of the hill when he gets back from Iraq.

Alvarez, the locally famous conservative, a hawk on the war, is finally leaving on the journey he begged to take four years ago. In August, he will be deployed with about 70 members of the 403rd Civil Affairs Battalion of the Army Reserves in Mattydale. The unit is heading to Iraq after two months of training at Fort Dix, N.J.


After the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, Alvarez went from a computer salesman who read the sports page to a man obsessed with patriotism. He was the guy who went to the peace rallies with his bullhorn. His public face was almost a caricature of the American patriot. He accused protesters of treason. He wrote two dozen letters to the editor in this newspaper, and dozens of others to papers across the country, about his support for the war and the president.

He ran a contest to build a papier-mache pig out of the Quran. It was advertised on his now defunct Web site (for PABAAH, Patriotic Americans Boycotting Anti-American Hollywood).

He ate from a bucket of chicken as the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals picketed a Kentucky Fried Chicken. He hanged filmmaker Michael Moore in effigy. He was lampooned on "The Daily Show."

Alvarez's first letter to the editor was in response to one by Edwar A. Uceta Espinal. Espinal had just returned home from fighting in Iraq. The war was pointless, a "never-ending hell" created by a president who didn't know what he's doing. Alvarez responded: "I'll gladly take your place." At that point, Alvarez, then 38, had already tried to join, but he was too old. He'd written to Rep. Jim Walsh a few months earlier, asking for help to get into the Army.

Then his fate changed. There weren't enough other patriots willing to risk their lives for this war, so the Army raised its age limit from 35 to 39.

Alvarez went to basic training in the fall of 2005. His hearing problem kept him stateside. Then he received a waiver from the military, Alvarez said. In Iraq, his unit will work with the Iraqi people. It will repair water and electricity supplies and help train Iraqis as soldiers and police officers. And try to make friends out of a potential enemy.

The man staring down real war is different from the man who dreamed of fighting for his country. He squinted out into the sun, and threw a stick for Sadie, who was whining for his attention. He knows he will yearn for these days when he is his own boss on his own land with his dog.

"But they say time goes pretty fast," Alvarez said. You just hope you're busy, he says.

These days, Alvarez is a real estate agent with Coldwell Banker Prime Properties. He hasn't been to a protest since he joined up. His bullhorn, borrowed from a friend, has been retired. And he laughs when asked about the papier-mache pig. (No one was really going to do that, he says. He doesn't even know how to do papier-mache. He was just testing the hypocrisy of a news media that celebrates art that criticizes Christianity.)

Today's Alvarez says he's excited to go to Iraq. But he knows what it will cost him: His real estate business is finally moving, but he will have to turn over his listings and commissions to other agents.

And then there are the things that his dream has already cost him. His pursuit of patriotism became too much for his marriage of more than 15 years. He and his wife, Laura, separated this spring. They sold their house in Baldwinsville, where he ran for mayor on the promise that he would cut village government. He lost.

Jon and Laura bought the land in Hannibal together. They were going to build on it. But really, that was his dream. "Kind of like the Army," Alvarez said. He became someone different after 9/11. "We really went on two different paths," he said.

Laura Alvarez said she and their daughter, 19, were shocked when Jon told them he wanted to join the Army. "We didn't understand it," she said. He took the president's call for volunteering so seriously. She's had time to get over the shock of his enlistment. But Iraq -- that's entirely different. She and her daughter are scared for him.

"I'm proud of him for, I guess, stepping up and doing what he feels is right -- even though it was at a big personal cost," she said.

Alvarez is the grandson of Spanish immigrants. He grew up in Canton, Ohio, in a family where the ethic was work, not politics. He left home at 18 to live in Texas, where he worked as a liquor store manager before going to the University of Texas. He taught history before becoming a computer salesman.

"Are you nuts?" was his sister's response when she heard her baby brother was going to join the Army at 39. Sheri Dickerhoof also told him that she'll be praying for him -- and voting for Barack Obama, because she thinks he will end the war.

Dickerhoof, 10 years older than Alvarez, said he has always seen things in absolute terms, in black and white. If you say you are a patriot, you fight for your country. And once you say you're going to do something, you do it, she said. Even though it might cost you your business, your marriage. And even though the reasons behind the war might be crumbling.

Dickerhoof's secret hope? That the Army again decides her brother's hearing is too bad.

The absolutist who could stomach no criticism of the commander in chief no longer supports President Bush. He unenrolled from the Republican Party after he returned from basic training. The party has become too liberal. He's a man without a party.

He still writes letters to the editor -- the most recent one in April about the virtues of self-reliance in response to another letter about our country going down the wrong path. Some people ask if he will run for anything again. The answer is probably not.

Walt Filipkowski wondered on the editorial page whether Alvarez had the guts to enlist. He doesn't agree with the war or Alvarez. But there is something to be said for a man who follows through.

"I totally respect the hell out of him. He put his money where his mouth is," Filipkowski said when told about Alvarez's plans.

Now Alvarez's biggest worry is finding someone who will take care of his dog, Sadiegirl, while he's gone. Then he'll build that house up on the ridge. Maybe get some cattle. And Sadie will bring him sticks to throw in the pond.

A hawk circled overhead as Sadie dived into the pond after a stick.

"I just want to be in peace," Alvarez said.

Marnie Eisenstadt can be reached at meisenstadt@syracuse.com or 470-2246.
\
Frankly, it says a lot about the state of the military that he was allowed in' with his very public politics indicating a hatred for those who don't believe as he does- a serious liability for a job that brings in people from all walks of life.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Freedom of speech applies to everyone, dumbass.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Beowulf wrote:Freedom of speech applies to everyone, dumbass.
Are you talking about me?
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Pity he didn't draw a combat assignment.

He might have done something worthwhile, like stop shrapnel or a bullet that would otherwise harm someone who's actually worth having come back.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

Post by Count Chocula »

Where do you get that he "ruined his life?" He got divorced, is camping out on 54 acres that he owns, and is going to serve in the Army. Is he giving up his real estate business? Yes, he won't be home to show property. So what? He's not a Republican any more. So what? He's not as rah-rah active as before. Again, so what?

Jon Alvarez seems at peace with his decisions, from what the article says. YOU may think he ruined his life, and the article's writer may think he's ruined his life, but he doesn't seem to think so. From the article:
..Alvarez' biggest worry is finding someone who will take care of his dog, Sadiegirl, while he's gone.
Your thread title says more about your opinion of this man's decisions than anything else, frankly.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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I'm impressed with his resolve to actually go in and put his ass on the line for his beliefs rather than just talk the talk. The man has some issues, no doubt, but he has the freedom to express them to the world.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Bug-Eyed Earl wrote:Frankly, it says a lot about the state of the military that he was allowed in' with his very public politics indicating a hatred for those who don't believe as he does- a serious liability for a job that brings in people from all walks of life.
And what great crime (aside from disagreeing with you) has he committed that would bar him from service? He is not part of any hate groups, gangs, and if he had any criminal convictions listed in that article I missed it. So why should he have been barred from the military?

I'm also curious as to how you think his life has been ruined. Divorce? Divorce rate is over 50% in this country. That is a lot of ruined lives. Lost his real estate job? He is in the service, so he is still getting paid. That puts him far and away better than most folk who get fired. Lost his political affiliation? So what? Because he decided to enlist? Why oh why do I get the feeling that that is the button pusher for you.
Kanastrous wrote:Pity he didn't draw a combat assignment.

He might have done something worthwhile, like stop shrapnel or a bullet that would otherwise harm someone who's actually worth having come back.
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You do realize that far and away the bulk of the military is the logistics tail that enables the combat personnel to fight, don't you? While I met plenty of people so incompetent at their jobs I would label them worthless, I don't know of any job that is. Well, maybe the band.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Normally I'd give props to someone that actually follows through with what they preach, but I think the part where it mentions he quit the Republicans because they'd become too liberal makes him out to be a massive douchebag. Though the part about eating a bucket of KFC in front of PETA protestors was pretty hilarious.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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General Zod wrote:Normally I'd give props to someone that actually follows through with what they preach, but I think the part where it mentions he quit the Republicans because they'd become too liberal makes him out to be a massive douchebag. Though the part about eating a bucket of KFC in front of PETA protestors was pretty hilarious.
Just so I'm clear, the intentionally antagonizing peta and war protesters and trying to offend and entire religious community are cool with you, but being part of a different political party, that's what makes him a douchebag?
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Ender wrote:
General Zod wrote:Normally I'd give props to someone that actually follows through with what they preach, but I think the part where it mentions he quit the Republicans because they'd become too liberal makes him out to be a massive douchebag. Though the part about eating a bucket of KFC in front of PETA protestors was pretty hilarious.
Just so I'm clear, the intentionally antagonizing peta and war protesters and trying to offend and entire religious community are cool with you, but being part of a different political party, that's what makes him a douchebag?
Considering that the political party in question has a history of supporting discriminatory policies to oppress racial and sexual minorities just because they're born differently, yes. On the other hand religion and veganism are purely willful choices.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Ender wrote:
Bug-Eyed Earl wrote:Frankly, it says a lot about the state of the military that he was allowed in' with his very public politics indicating a hatred for those who don't believe as he does- a serious liability for a job that brings in people from all walks of life.
And what great crime (aside from disagreeing with you) has he committed that would bar him from service? He is not part of any hate groups, gangs, and if he had any criminal convictions listed in that article I missed it. So why should he have been barred from the military?

I'm also curious as to how you think his life has been ruined. Divorce? Divorce rate is over 50% in this country. That is a lot of ruined lives. Lost his real estate job? He is in the service, so he is still getting paid. That puts him far and away better than most folk who get fired. Lost his political affiliation? So what? Because he decided to enlist? Why oh why do I get the feeling that that is the button pusher for you.
Kanastrous wrote:Pity he didn't draw a combat assignment.

He might have done something worthwhile, like stop shrapnel or a bullet that would otherwise harm someone who's actually worth having come back.
"Death to all who disagree with me!"
You do realize that far and away the bulk of the military is the logistics tail that enables the combat personnel to fight, don't you? While I met plenty of people so incompetent at their jobs I would label them worthless, I don't know of any job that is. Well, maybe the band.
People usually bounce back from divorce, but the fact that the article couldn't hide despite irs positive take, was that his marriage dissolved largely because of his enlistment. His resolve is admirable, but I don't see how it's worth the consequences. The high divorce rate doesn't take away the seriousness of a situation; I remember reading about this a few years ago, so it was obviously a process that took years; years of pleading from the wife and family not to do this, and still he pressed on.

Well, I've been following this guy for awhile, and aside from what is stated in the article, the various sites he has been on have shown nothing but contempt for liberals, gays, Arabs, etc. If this is out in the open, it would give me serious pause as an official in the US Army if I wondered how he is supposed to function when surrounded by people from all walks of life. His former web page had a petition to Alberto GOnzales to charge Michael Moore for treason, for fuck's sake.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Ender wrote:Just so I'm clear, the intentionally antagonizing peta and war protesters and trying to offend and entire religious community are cool with you, but being part of a different political party, that's what makes him a douchebag?
What´s wrong with despising people based on their political oppinion?
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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General Zod wrote:
Ender wrote:
General Zod wrote:Normally I'd give props to someone that actually follows through with what they preach, but I think the part where it mentions he quit the Republicans because they'd become too liberal makes him out to be a massive douchebag. Though the part about eating a bucket of KFC in front of PETA protestors was pretty hilarious.
Just so I'm clear, the intentionally antagonizing peta and war protesters and trying to offend and entire religious community are cool with you, but being part of a different political party, that's what makes him a douchebag?
Considering that the political party in question has a history of supporting discriminatory policies to oppress racial and sexual minorities just because they're born differently, yes. On the other hand religion and veganism are purely willful choices.
Ghetto Edit because I didn't think of this til after the time limit: Also, I never said anything about war protestors or religious communities, just that I thought antagonizing PETA was amusing. So not shoving words in my mouth would be appreciated.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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salm wrote:
Ender wrote:Just so I'm clear, the intentionally antagonizing peta and war protesters and trying to offend and entire religious community are cool with you, but being part of a different political party, that's what makes him a douchebag?
What´s wrong with despising people based on their political oppinion?
The point was that you are giving far more weight to thoughts and words then you are actions. The guy acts like a raging prick left and right to people, but that doesn't make him a douchebag?
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Bug-Eyed Earl wrote:People usually bounce back from divorce, but the fact that the article couldn't hide despite irs positive take, was that his marriage dissolved largely because of his enlistment.
And? That happens to plenty of people in the military, it is a consequence of being away all the time. How does the fact he got divorced mark his life as ruined?
His resolve is admirable, but I don't see how it's worth the consequences. The high divorce rate doesn't take away the seriousness of a situation; I remember reading about this a few years ago, so it was obviously a process that took years; years of pleading from the wife and family not to do this, and still he pressed on.
So am I right in thinking that in your view his life is ruined because he enlisted then? I want to make sure first so I don't strawman it.
Well, I've been following this guy for awhile, and aside from what is stated in the article, the various sites he has been on have shown nothing but contempt for liberals, gays, Arabs, etc. If this is out in the open, it would give me serious pause as an official in the US Army if I wondered how he is supposed to function when surrounded by people from all walks of life. His former web page had a petition to Alberto GOnzales to charge Michael Moore for treason, for fuck's sake.
Show me what regulation he violated then. The fact that he has political opinions you don't like doesn't bar him from service, the acts I listed above do.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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General Zod wrote:Considering that the political party in question has a history of supporting discriminatory policies to oppress racial and sexual minorities just because they're born differently, yes. On the other hand religion and veganism are purely willful choices.
Answered this to salm, but again, you are putting more weight on thoughts and words then you are actions. The guy is an asshole but you don't mind that right up until he disagrees with you politically. That doesn't seem a little off to you? It is like you are embracing that shitty writing cliche of the heroic sociopath - "Yeah, he's a jerk, but he is our jerk"

No, the guy is a douchebag for plenty of reasons completely unconnected to his political views.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Ender wrote:
General Zod wrote:Considering that the political party in question has a history of supporting discriminatory policies to oppress racial and sexual minorities just because they're born differently, yes. On the other hand religion and veganism are purely willful choices.
Answered this to salm, but again, you are putting more weight on thoughts and words then you are actions. The guy is an asshole but you don't mind that right up until he disagrees with you politically. That doesn't seem a little off to you? It is like you are embracing that shitty writing cliche of the heroic sociopath - "Yeah, he's a jerk, but he is our jerk"

No, the guy is a douchebag for plenty of reasons completely unconnected to his political views.
Where did anyone say it doesn't make him a douchebag? It just makes him even more of a douchebag because he thinks the Republicans have become "too liberal", which I almost never hear outside of dog whistle racists. Considering that PETA are usually massive twats, some counter protesting in the form of eating a bucket of KFC in front of them is a nice comeuppance.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Ender wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:Pity he didn't draw a combat assignment.

He might have done something worthwhile, like stop shrapnel or a bullet that would otherwise harm someone who's actually worth having come back.
"Death to all who disagree with me!"
More like, death to assholes who agitate for a poorly-planned, ill-conceived, incompetently directed war, that's gotten a lot of people needlessly killed to no good end. There are plenty of people with whom I disagree, whose deaths would still impress me as tragedies. Not this guy, though.
Ender wrote:You do realize that far and away the bulk of the military is the logistics tail that enables the combat personnel to fight, don't you?
Yes. Doesn't everybody know that?
Ender wrote:While I met plenty of people so incompetent at their jobs I would label them worthless, I don't know of any job that is. Well, maybe the band.
Military bands probably have some value for PR and recruitment purposes.

I never suggested that his position is worthless. I suggested that, given his history, it would be more appropriate for him to have been placed in a combat position where he'd have the opportunity to lay down his life for this cause in which he seems to be such a great believer, instead of someone who may not share his enthusiasm.

Although he may or may not be in good enough shape at his age, to do more than slow down and endanger his squadmates.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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General Zod wrote:Where did anyone say it doesn't make him a douchebag? It just makes him even more of a douchebag because he thinks the Republicans have become "too liberal", which I almost never hear outside of dog whistle racists. Considering that PETA are usually massive twats, some counter protesting in the form of eating a bucket of KFC in front of them is a nice comeuppance.
Your original post gave the impression that you were not opposed to his other acts, just the views, hence my response.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Kanastrous wrote:More like, death to assholes who agitate for a poorly-planned, ill-conceived, incompetently directed war, that's gotten a lot of people needlessly killed to no good end. There are plenty of people with whom I disagree, whose deaths would still impress me as tragedies. Not this guy, though.
So yes, your statement is a call for the deaths of those who disagree with you. Try and spin it all you want, you are still arguing that those who hold a different opinion from you should be punished for it. I look forward to your further defense of thought crimes.
Yes. Doesn't everybody know that?
You characterized a REMF job as worthless, so i wanted to make sure.
Military bands probably have some value for PR and recruitment purposes.
Perhaps diplomatic as well, much like the extravagant diplomatic quarters we had on the carrier.
I never suggested that his position is worthless.
"He might have done something worthwhile" is a pretty solid indictment that his current job is not worthwhile, and thus worthless.
I suggested that, given his history, it would be more appropriate for him to have been placed in a combat position where he'd have the opportunity to lay down his life for this cause in which he seems to be such a great believer, instead of someone who may not share his enthusiasm.

Although he may or may not be in good enough shape at his age, to do more than slow down and endanger his squadmates.
Yes, the article explicitly cites his hearing issues making him unable for that very reason. So your plan to kill those who disagree with you likely garners even more deaths.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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Ender wrote:
General Zod wrote:Where did anyone say it doesn't make him a douchebag? It just makes him even more of a douchebag because he thinks the Republicans have become "too liberal", which I almost never hear outside of dog whistle racists. Considering that PETA are usually massive twats, some counter protesting in the form of eating a bucket of KFC in front of them is a nice comeuppance.
Your original post gave the impression that you were not opposed to his other acts, just the views, hence my response.
Since the only thing I commented on was the PETA thing, I'm not sure where you could get that from unless you think not denouncing everything = support of said acts.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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General Zod wrote:Since the only thing I commented on was the PETA thing, I'm not sure where you could get that from unless you think not denouncing everything = support of said acts.
It was more that the political thing was what you cited as making him a massive douchebag. Frankly I would have thought any of the acts he engaged in (particularly the paper-mache pig) would have been the biggest trigger.
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

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If anything, this is the perfect time to get out of the real estate business (he's not exactly a rich guy in the big leagues who can take heavy losses and still do major investing) and go into something with a guaranteed income. Geez, I was expecting a story of someone who kept throwing money at the stock market thinking it had to get better now or something like that. :roll:
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General Zod
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

Post by General Zod »

Ender wrote:
General Zod wrote:Since the only thing I commented on was the PETA thing, I'm not sure where you could get that from unless you think not denouncing everything = support of said acts.
It was more that the political thing was what you cited as making him a massive douchebag. Frankly I would have thought any of the acts he engaged in (particularly the paper-mache pig) would have been the biggest trigger.
I find support of groups known for the oppression of minorities and denial of basic liberties to be more disgusting than public displays of douchebaggery, personally.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
Kanastrous
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Re: Neocon ruins his life with Bush devotion

Post by Kanastrous »

Ender wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:More like, death to assholes who agitate for a poorly-planned, ill-conceived, incompetently directed war, that's gotten a lot of people needlessly killed to no good end. There are plenty of people with whom I disagree, whose deaths would still impress me as tragedies. Not this guy, though.
So yes, your statement is a call for the deaths of those who disagree with you. Try and spin it all you want, you are still arguing that those who hold a different opinion from you should be punished for it. I look forward to your further defense of thought crimes.
Seems like you're leaping from death-to-particular-people with whom I disagree, to death-to-anyone-with-whom-I-disagree. And my feeling regarding those particular people, derives from the particular odiousness and particular consequences of those beliefs. Once again, it's the particulars, not the mere fact that there is a disagreement.
Ender wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:Yes. Doesn't everybody know that?
You characterized a REMF job as worthless, so i wanted to make sure.
I never characterized the position as 'worthless.' I suggested that a better place for this individual to have done something worthwhile, would have involved stopping a bullet for someone whom I'd rather see come back alive. Because I think that absorbing bullets is a more worthwhile use for the particular person, than handling Civil Affairs work.
Ender wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:I never suggested that his position is worthless.
"He might have done something worthwhile" is a pretty solid indictment that his current job is not worthwhile, and thus worthless.
No, it's the advancement of the opinion that this particular individual would be used in the most worthwhile fashion, by stopping a bullet for someone else. This is an explicit statement for your benefit: I regard Civil Affairs work as being of potentially equal value to any other form of military service, where and when it is required to achieve military and political objectives. It's the value of this particular individual's life that I intend to denigrate. If you want to chew on me, please chew on me for that.
Ender wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:I suggested that, given his history, it would be more appropriate for him to have been placed in a combat position where he'd have the opportunity to lay down his life for this cause in which he seems to be such a great believer, instead of someone who may not share his enthusiasm.

Although he may or may not be in good enough shape at his age, to do more than slow down and endanger his squadmates.
Yes, the article explicitly cites his hearing issues making him unable for that very reason. So your plan to kill those who disagree with you likely garners even more deaths.
I missed the info on his hearing disability.

Plan? What plan? I didn't outline a plan. I suggested that I'd prefer to see one particular and specific individual placed in a position where he's more likely to suffer consequences for a terrible policy decision for which he was an outstanding advocate. And then I noted that maybe the idea lacked merit, based upon his age, since it might lead to the undesirable consequence of endangering his squadmates, whose lives I perceive as being more valuable, than his. How you manage to elaborate this into a "plan to kill those who disagree with (me)" is a mystery.

I know that you sometimes enjoy picking pointless arguments for the sake of picking pointless arguments, and I'm not going to play, so you may count this as a win and move along, if that pleases you. I'm not invested in this to the degree of wanting to waste more time circling with you, on it.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
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