[Discussion]The House Of Commons

[Phantasee]

This idea and place are fucking stupid.

The Senate is fine the way it is and doesn't need an advisory body of retards. Mike and the Admins and Mods certainly don't. And if they felt they did, they would have made one... OH WAIT!

A constitution for democracy? A public defender? Bicameral legislation? Choosing Mods? Troll actors? Are you fucking kidding me.

See, this is why the Senate STOPPED nominating new members, because those that were worth letting in are either in, would never join or are chalked full of stupid ideas.

Yes, YOUR ideas are stupid. Get over it. Not every one is a special little unique snowflake that can contribute something. Some one has to be the janitor and construction worker.

I am a construction worker, and I'm not so deluded or arrogant to think other wise. I contribute as best I can, but I don't have great ideas or anything truly profound to add and neither do you. The sooner YOU learn that you are not Publius or Simplicus or Darth Wong or whoever you look up to and aspire to be like or be respected by, the better.

No, the Senate isn't perfect and YES it is a popularity contest at times and YES it is an old boys club at times and yes they get "perks". So fucking what! Are you gonna fucking cry? Newsflash: Life isn't fair. Not everyone is treated equally. Some people get the shaft. Some people are just plain fucking dumb and no one wants to hear what they have to say.

There is a whole group of people on this board that I DON'T WANT TO HAVE A SAY IN HOW THINGS ARE RUN. YOU are in that group. You are in here playing fake Senator, which is just... SO FUCKING RETARDED.

Seriously, other than the Coliseum threads, which could SO just be stickied in OT or *GASP* The Coliseum forum, the only mildly productive threads are the mod threads and there you have people like ME being nominated. Come the fuck on. Seriously. (I do appreciate the vote of confidence Kendall.)

And surprise, the only consensus that this recent crop of whining and bitching has brought about is that we need more moderation. No fucking shit you bunch of dumbass Sherlocks. It only takes a cursory glance at the board index page and the list of Mods for the different forums to figure that out. And do you know who already came to that conclusion back in August? The Senate. Did they act on it? No. Slow to act on it? Yes. So fucking what. It isn't their JOB to act on it. Maybe when it IS their job, you will have some legitimate gripes.

Discuss, flame, yell and scream, make strong arguments for or against, HoS. (Which would be my preferred choice, so there was less evidence that I posted in this place.)

I have to second this. Damnit, now I ruined my perfect record of ZERO posts in this shit hole. FUCK.

I haven't posted here for pretty much the same reasons as Havok outlined in his post. I think all the try hards who couldn't get into the Senate were the ones pushing for this. Hell, Testing was pretty useful as far as needing to vent about board drama. Plus it autodeletes so people can't hold it against you months later. Making a formal forum is going to discourage this sort of activity, because now it will be scrutinized in the board proper, and left on the record for a long time (forever).

[Singular Intellect]

This idea and place are fucking stupid.

I must admit I find this opinion enormously amusing in context with what you write below...

The Senate is fine the way it is and doesn't need an advisory body of retards. Mike and the Admins and Mods certainly don't. And if they felt they did, they would have made one... OH WAIT!

Since when did the House of Commons get declared an advisory body to the Senate? Sure, I've seen some people suggesting it should be, and others not. Opinions are a dime a dozen.

As far as I've seen, the House of Commons is just a forum for the purpose of everyone to toss ideas around about the board in general.

Sure, some ideas are silly, redundant or outright useless. I'd consider this more a growing pain than an excuse to kill it immediately.

A constitution for democracy? A public defender? Bicameral legislation? Choosing Mods? Troll actors? Are you fucking kidding me.

You don't like some of the suggestions and ideas, sure, that's understandable. But why should anyone adhere to discussing what you personally like?

If the forum annoys you so much, why not simply follow your own advice, ignore it and 'STFU', since by your own logic that is what you should do as a lowly peon? The big boys you defer to obviously have their own opinion on the matter, right?

See, this is why the Senate STOPPED nominating new members, because those that were worth letting in are either in, would never join or are chalked full of stupid ideas.

...And? You seem to be operating under the assumption the Senate is some heavily envied place and status everyone is scrambling to be part of. Now I'm sure there's some users who actually think that way, just as I'm sure there's plenty who don't, myself included.

Yes, YOUR ideas are stupid. Get over it. Not every one is a special little unique snowflake that can contribute something. Some one has to be the janitor and construction worker.

You know, I'm also a construction worker, but it's absurd to suggest they or even janitors don't contribute something.

That's like saying the foundation of a structure isn't important.

I am a construction worker, and I'm not so deluded or arrogant to think other wise. I contribute as best I can, but I don't have great ideas or anything truly profound to add and neither do you.

This is perplexing; on one hand you assert your own inadaquacy, but then turn around and arbitrarily declare that everyone else is or must be as inadaquate as yourself.

The sooner YOU learn that you are not Publius or Simplicus or Darth Wong or whoever you look up to and aspire to be like or be respected by, the better.

Ah, so trying to improve one's self is a bad thing now? It's been said immitation is the highest form of flattery.

Of course, there's obvious examples of attempted immitation that can make people groan, but the principle of people looking to individuals generally considered intelligent and well educated and trying to be more like them...how the fuck is that a bad thing?

That's like talking down to your kid who watches a scientist demostrating physics and trying to emulate the behavior, even if they do it badly.

Or are you suggesting adults should never aspire to improve thenselves or become 'better' people?

No, the Senate isn't perfect and YES it is a popularity contest at times and YES it is an old boys club at times and yes they get "perks". So fucking what! Are you gonna fucking cry? Newsflash: Life isn't fair. Not everyone is treated equally. Some people get the shaft. Some people are just plain fucking dumb and no one wants to hear what they have to say.

So what you're arguing is the 'lowly masses' shouldn't have a right to say shit about how the board is run, despite asserting yourself as such in the very forum created by the admistration to do precisely that...you do realize you're contradicting yourself, right?

What you're doing is the equivalent of holding up a protest sign with the message "Stop protesters!".

There is a whole group of people on this board that I DON'T WANT TO HAVE A SAY IN HOW THINGS ARE RUN. YOU are in that group.

It seems the owner of the board (or one whom he's granted equal power over) decided otherwise, but now you are hotly contesting this decision by loudly proclaiming the peons don't need or shouldn't have a say, while at the same time asserting yourself as one...?

I'm sorry, but is anyone else laughing as much as I am right now?

You are in here playing fake Senator, which is just... SO FUCKING RETARDED.

Correction: You're asserting everyone here wants to play fake Senator, because apparently in your mind it's such an eviable position and status. You're obviously projecting your own behaviors and desires onto everyone else. But perhaps I'm being redundant, you explicitly stated as much.

Seriously, other than the Coliseum threads, which could SO just be stickied in OT or *GASP* The Coliseum forum, the only mildly productive threads are the mod threads and there you have people like ME being nominated. Come the fuck on. Seriously. (I do appreciate the vote of confidence Kendall.)

And surprise, the only consensus that this recent crop of whining and bitching has brought about is that we need more moderation. No fucking shit you bunch of dumbass Sherlocks. It only takes a cursory glance at the board index page and the list of Mods for the different forums to figure that out. And do you know who already came to that conclusion back in August? The Senate. Did they act on it? No. Slow to act on it? Yes. So fucking what. It isn't their JOB to act on it. Maybe when it IS their job, you will have some legitimate gripes.

Discuss, flame, yell and scream, make strong arguments for or against, HoS. (Which would be my preferred choice, so there was less evidence that I posted in this place.)

I'm honestly not sure what your gripe is, havokeff. You're essentially loudly bitching that you and everyone else whom you arbitrarily declare to be like you shouldn't have a say in how things are run. A hilarious contradiction if I ever read one.

The HoC was created by those in charge, whom by your own admission, are vastly more qualified to dictated it's existence than the average posting joe. Your response is to hotly contest this action on the basis of people like yourself (the average posting joe)...not being worthy enough to have a say in the matter.

You want to contest the existence of the HoC, in the HoC, which exists specifically for the purpose you are employing it? By all means, knock yourself out. It's existence one way or the other doesn't particularily concern me, although I'm making an effort to contribute to it positively and productively.

But surely you can come up with a better reason than that which boils down to "I don't like it, it shouldn't exist, because people's opinions like mine don't count!"

[Mayabird]

And to that, we go to the next scale, something i found out when I was doing my comics regularly and selling them at conventions and published in fanzines: There's four types of feedback.

1: "That's so cool! You're the best!" --ego-gratifying but useless.
2: "I really dig your stuff, and here's why..." --very, very useful. Keep those.
3: "I don't like your stuff, and here's why..." --very, very useful. Keep those.
4: "This shit sucks! You suck!" --waste of their time and mine.

Progress can only be made if things are kept useful.

I'd say there is some room for feedback #1 in Fanfics, since it encourages writers to keep going (some of us need a bit of ego-boosting; I get absolutely terrified sometimes before posting stuff). Page after page after page of "OMG AWEXOME!" would get old and tedious and isn't useful at all, but there's no reason people can't throw out the occasional, "I like your story. Please write more!" It's better than seeing three hundred new views and no responses, because then we'd have no idea if anybody actually liked it or not.

But this is nitpicking, really.

[Havok]

This idea and place are fucking stupid.

Yes, well it is my opinion.

The Senate is fine the way it is and doesn't need an advisory body of retards. Mike and the Admins and Mods certainly don't. And if they felt they did, they would have made one... OH WAIT!

A constitution for democracy? A public defender? Bicameral legislation? Choosing Mods? Troll actors? Are you fucking kidding me.

Some of the ideas here have merit. Others do not. That's probably true of the Senate as well, and every other God damn organization under the Sun. And who the fuck do you think set up this place? It was put up by Mike and the Admins and the Mods, not in bloody revolution.

I understand who put this up, but I view it as appeasement to a large group of whiners who don't like the Senate and all the EVIL they do. And, yes there have been a few OK ideas here, but they all could have been brought up somewhere else, or already have been.

See, this is why the Senate STOPPED nominating new members, because those that were worth letting in are either in, would never join or are chalked full of stupid ideas.

Yes, YOUR ideas are stupid. Get over it. Not every one is a special little unique snowflake that can contribute something. Some one has to be the janitor and construction worker.

Now you've made this personal.

Come on. To seriously argue that out of the entire board, no one outside of the existing Senate has any worthwhile ideas would be retarded. Their are plenty of reasons someone might not be a Senator while still being a very intelligent individual. Do I need to list them?

That isn't what I said. What I said is that not everyone gets to have a say at the big table. The Senate doesn't have a monopoly on smart, and most of what they debate are pretty simple common sense issues. The point is, you have to stand out in a positive way to get in there, and most people here just flat out don't. I'm not saying the janitor can't be the boss one day, but until that time, he just does his job as best he can.

I am a construction worker, and I'm not so deluded or arrogant to think other wise. I contribute as best I can, but I don't have great ideas or anything truly profound to add and neither do you. The sooner YOU learn that you are not Publius or Simplicus or Darth Wong or whoever you look up to and aspire to be like or be respected by, the better.

Note that this has questionable relevance to the topic of the House of Commons, but are you saying people should not look up to the intelligent among us and try to improve themselves?

Not at all. What I am saying is that you are NOT that person. You need to work for a long fucking while to be THAT person. You can't just put 30 minutes into a post and HUZAH you are a respected well known member that gets to have substantial, or even a minor, say in how the board is run.

No, the Senate isn't perfect and YES it is a popularity contest at times and YES it is an old boys club at times and yes they get "perks". So fucking what! Are you gonna fucking cry? Newsflash: Life isn't fair. Not everyone is treated equally. Some people get the shaft. Some people are just plain fucking dumb and no one wants to hear what they have to say.

No one is forcing you to read it. And obviously some people, including some of those vastly superior intellects with influence on this board, do want to hear it. Otherwise, this sub forum wouldn't exist for you to waste both our times bitching about it.

Are you reading what I wrote? I have ZERO problem with the Senate. This isn't directed towards the Senate. It is directed towards all the fucking cry baby whiners that have been constantly bitching about the Senate and how it needs to change and how it is negatively impacting the board. This isn't towards people like Stark and Coffee who like to tease and fuck with the Senate it is aimed at the people that honestly think the Senate is doing some kind of fucking harm, instead of just being silly and full of themselves.

There is a whole group of people on this board that I DON'T WANT TO HAVE A SAY IN HOW THINGS ARE RUN. YOU are in that group. You are in here playing fake Senator, which is just... SO FUCKING RETARDED.

Never mind that we have no real power. And that all the Senate ultimately does is play fake Senator. All we're doing is expressing our opinions, which does no real harm that I can see. And any actual decisions are still in the hands of Mr Wong, ultimately. Its not like we gave the entire House admin powers or something.

Yes, but the majority of YOUR (not meaning you specifically, but in general) opinions have been shown to be at the least, jokes, and at most. honestly seriously retarded.

Seriously, other than the Coliseum threads, which could SO just be stickied in OT or *GASP* The Coliseum forum, the only mildly productive threads are the mod threads and there you have people like ME being nominated. Come the fuck on. Seriously. (I do appreciate the vote of confidence Kendall.)

I believe ordinary board members cannot open threads in the Coliseum.

And seriously, you'd be a great mod. You're certainly enough of a jerk towards us ordinary stupid posters.

How easy would it have been to make that change. DON'T POST IN THE COLISEUM UNLESS GIVEN PERMISSION. Only post in the suggestion/discussion sticky thread. Problem solved.

Yes, I would be a great mod.

And surprise, the only consensus that this recent crop of whining and bitching has brought about is that we need more moderation. No fucking shit you bunch of dumbass Sherlocks. It only takes a cursory glance at the board index page and the list of Mods for the different forums to figure that out. And do you know who already came to that conclusion back in August? The Senate. Did they act on it? No. Slow to act on it? Yes. So fucking what. It isn't their JOB to act on it. Maybe when it IS their job, you will have some legitimate gripes.

So we agreed with the Senate, and did as much as we could to fix the problem as the Senate did, which is essentially nothing beyond advising those with the power to do so to act. This proves what, exactly?

That it was a superfluous step that didn't need to be taken. In case you haven't been paying attention to GR and the other Mods. New moderators have been being discussed for a while.

Discuss, flame, yell and scream, make strong arguments for or against, HoS. (Which would be my preferred choice, so there was less evidence that I posted in this place.)

I see nothing wrong with giving everyone a chance to express their opinions on the board. Their will be a lot of dumb shit, yes, but how likely is it that that will be acted on anyway? It gives those people a place to rant harmlessly, and now and then you'll actually get an idea with some merit. And in the end, if you don't like it, no one will make you read it.

Rant harmlessly. You mean like how we could already do in Venting, or Testing, or Off Topic, if it is a worthwhile subject. Again, what was wrong with those methods?
What? The topic may go to the second page or stopped being discussed? Not if it is worth discussing. Like you said, now and then you will get an idea with some merit, and if that is the case, it will be discussed and be seen without all the retard that has come along with this place.

[Havok]

This idea and place are fucking stupid.

I must admit I find this opinion enormously amusing in context with what you write below...

Oh, I'm sure you won't be the only one laughing by the end of this.

The Senate is fine the way it is and doesn't need an advisory body of retards. Mike and the Admins and Mods certainly don't. And if they felt they did, they would have made one... OH WAIT!

Since when did the House of Commons get declared an advisory body to the Senate? Sure, I've seen some people suggesting it should be, and others not.

I didn't say it was or had, but you are fucking blind if you don't see that that is what the non Senators, and even some of the Senators are trying to make it. It has even been specifically mentioned as a possibility. My point, which you clearly missed, is that the Senate does not need that.

Opinions are a dime a dozen.

EXACTLY!! This proves that you understand damn well what my points are and that the rest of your response is just some kind of bullshit posturing, but I will continue on anyway.

As far as I've seen, the House of Commons is just a forum for the purpose of everyone to toss ideas around about the board in general.

Hmm... a specific place on a discussion board to toss out ideas to be debated... now where could you have done that before on this board...

Sure, some ideas are silly, redundant or outright useless. I'd consider this more a growing pain than an excuse to kill it immediately.

So you agree with my assessment. And kill it immediately? I wish that Coyote and Hotfoot would have just worn condoms when they were fucking the Senate and then it wouldn't have even been born. A nice hand job would have sufficed.

A constitution for democracy? A public defender? Bicameral legislation? Choosing Mods? Troll actors? Are you fucking kidding me.

You don't like some of the suggestions and ideas, sure, that's understandable. But why should anyone adhere to discussing what you personally like?

Again you missed the point... why do I feel like I am going to be typing that a lot in the next 10 minutes. I never said you had to discuss what I personally like, the point is that the topics of use would easily be facilitated in other more appropriate forums and the creation of this place just just cluttered those topics up with a bunch of dumbass ideas by a bunch of dumbass posters that want to play Senator.

If the forum annoys you so much, why not simply follow your own advice, ignore it and 'STFU', since by your own logic that is what you should do as a lowly peon? The big boys you defer to obviously have their own opinion on the matter, right?

How did you make that leap of logic based on what I said? The forum is fucking dumb because it is just appeasement to the whiners and crybabies on the board that hate the Senate. I never said that people can't or shouldn't voice their opinions, just that they should realize that what they say isn't and shouldn't hold any weight with how the board is run. That, and that there were plenty of forums to spew retarded ideas before this place, and it's creation is fucking useless.

See, this is why the Senate STOPPED nominating new members, because those that were worth letting in are either in, would never join or are chalked full of stupid ideas.

...And? You seem to be operating under the assumption the Senate is some heavily envied place and status everyone is scrambling to be part of. Now I'm sure there's some users who actually think that way, just as I'm sure there's plenty who don't, myself included.

I would venture to say that the former is a much larger group than you realize and the latter is much MUCH smaller, and I personally doubt your own inclusion in the latter, but that is purely speculative on my part and not something I can prove. I will say this, as I have said before, the "I want to be a Senator" just OOZES of most of the posts in here.

Yes, YOUR ideas are stupid. Get over it. Not every one is a special little unique snowflake that can contribute something. Some one has to be the janitor and construction worker.

You know, I'm also a construction worker, but it's absurd to suggest they or even janitors don't contribute something.

That's like saying the foundation of a structure isn't important.

Oh they certainly contribute, but as we have seen, a lot of it is shoddy workmanship. And there are literally hundreds of people that can take their place and no one would notice the fucking difference. And as I said in the post to The Romulan Republic, I am not saying that you have to maintain your position, or not to work to rise above, just that you need to realize what you are RIGHT NOW.

I am a construction worker, and I'm not so deluded or arrogant to think other wise. I contribute as best I can, but I don't have great ideas or anything truly profound to add and neither do you.

This is perplexing; on one hand you assert your own inadaquacy, but then turn around and arbitrarily declare that everyone else is or must be as inadaquate as yourself.

Uh, no. MTP, again. Not everyone is able to contribute at a high level, despite what they feel about themselves. I never said that those people were inadequate as long as they are staying within their realm of where they are perfectly adequate. When you try to step up, especially when you are just not ready, haven't learned or earned your shit, you are just another retard.

The sooner YOU learn that you are not Publius or Simplicus or Darth Wong or whoever you look up to and aspire to be like or be respected by, the better.

Ah, so trying to improve one's self is a bad thing now? It's been said immitation is the highest form of flattery.

Yeah and flattery will get you nowhere. Again, you have to understand your place in the big picture. I didn't say it was bad or wrong to aspire to be like Publius in his quest to make the EU not suck, but average poster is NOT Publius, and can't expect to garner that type of respect or brownie points because he made a few well thought out posts or contributed in some discussions.

Of course, there's obvious examples of attempted immitation that can make people groan, but the principle of people looking to individuals generally considered intelligent and well educated and trying to be more like them...how the fuck is that a bad thing?

Didn't say it was. You do know how to read don't you?

That's like talking down to your kid who watches a scientist demostrating physics and trying to emulate the behavior, even if they do it badly.

Or are you suggesting adults should never aspire to improve thenselves or become 'better' people?

Lather. Rinse. Repeat. I didn't fucking say that. There is a distinct difference between aspiring to a level and believing you are already there.

No, the Senate isn't perfect and YES it is a popularity contest at times and YES it is an old boys club at times and yes they get "perks". So fucking what! Are you gonna fucking cry? Newsflash: Life isn't fair. Not everyone is treated equally. Some people get the shaft. Some people are just plain fucking dumb and no one wants to hear what they have to say.

So what you're arguing is the 'lowly masses' shouldn't have a right to say shit about how the board is run, despite asserting yourself as such in the very forum created by the admistration to do precisely that...you do realize you're contradicting yourself, right?

You are fucking dense. What I'm saying is that not EVERYONE gets a say in how things are run. That is life. If one day, you get a say for whatever reason, that is great. Until then, stop fucking crying about it.

What you're doing is the equivalent of holding up a protest sign with the message "Stop protesters!".

No, what I'm doing is holding up a sign that says "STOP BEING WHINY CRYBABY BITCHES!"

There is a whole group of people on this board that I DON'T WANT TO HAVE A SAY IN HOW THINGS ARE RUN. YOU are in that group.

It seems the owner of the board (or one whom he's granted equal power over) decided otherwise, but now you are hotly contesting this decision by loudly proclaiming the peons don't need or shouldn't have a say, while at the same time asserting yourself as one...?

I'm sorry, but is anyone else laughing as much as I am right now?

Oh no, others are laughing just as much as you. Just not about what you think they are. And I'm sure Mike and the Admins are just waiting with bated breath at how the Mod elections turn out.

As for my perceived hypocrisy, I never said that anyone shouldn't have an opinion or say in matters, just that this place is fucking retarded and didn't need to be made to allow anyone to do that. Oh right, I was supposed to write how you missed the point... again.

You are in here playing fake Senator, which is just... SO FUCKING RETARDED.

Correction: You're asserting everyone here wants to play fake Senator, because apparently in your mind it's such an eviable position and status. You're obviously projecting your own behaviors and desires onto everyone else. But perhaps I'm being redundant, you explicitly stated as much.

Oh man, you are fucking laughable. Yes, CLEARLY I want to be a Senator. *AHEM* I, havokeff, would like to submit myself for admittance into the Senate. Any Senator reading this... Can I please be a Senator? OOPS! Just disqualified myself. Shucks.

And again, if you can't see that this place is just the Senate Lite and people are in here posting in hopes of being recognized and given pats on the back so that one day they too can have all those great perks the Senate has (Oh, that is about zero, btw.) then you are as dumb as people perceive you to be.

Seriously, other than the Coliseum threads, which could SO just be stickied in OT or *GASP* The Coliseum forum, the only mildly productive threads are the mod threads and there you have people like ME being nominated. Come the fuck on. Seriously. (I do appreciate the vote of confidence Kendall.)

And surprise, the only consensus that this recent crop of whining and bitching has brought about is that we need more moderation. No fucking shit you bunch of dumbass Sherlocks. It only takes a cursory glance at the board index page and the list of Mods for the different forums to figure that out. And do you know who already came to that conclusion back in August? The Senate. Did they act on it? No. Slow to act on it? Yes. So fucking what. It isn't their JOB to act on it. Maybe when it IS their job, you will have some legitimate gripes.

Discuss, flame, yell and scream, make strong arguments for or against, HoS. (Which would be my preferred choice, so there was less evidence that I posted in this place.)

I'm honestly not sure what your gripe is, havokeff. You're essentially loudly bitching that you and everyone else whom you arbitrarily declare to be like you shouldn't have a say in how things are run. A hilarious contradiction if I ever read one.

Uh, where is the contradiction in that? I think some people are Chiefs and some people are Indians. And my gripe, Einstein, is that this place is fucking ridiculous and useless and was completely unnecessary in any way shape or form for whatever bullshit reason any one has given. There is nothing being done here that couldn't have already been done before it was here, OH except stroke the egos of retards so that they think they have a say in how the board is run and that their opinion matters in that facet. THAT, is my gripe you dumbshit. Seriously. Did you know how to read?

The HoC was created by those in charge, whom by your own admission, are vastly more qualified to dictated it's existence than the average posting joe. Your response is to hotly contest this action on the basis of people like yourself (the average posting joe)...not being worthy enough to have a say in the matter.

Man you are stupid. When did I say anyone in charge was more qualified? In fact, I used the term "get the shaft" which means that while you actually MAY be qualified to make the decisions, you don't get to because, say... The Old Boys Club doesn't want to let you in and allow you to do so. Reading. Seriously. Try it.

You want to contest the existence of the HoC, in the HoC, which exists specifically for the purpose you are employing it? By all means, knock yourself out. It's existence one way or the other doesn't particularily concern me, although I'm making an effort to contribute to it positively and productively.

So you don't care, but yet you are one of the main posters in here since it was created... Right.

But surely you can come up with a better reason than that which boils down to "I don't like it, it shouldn't exist, because people's opinions like mine don't count!"

One more time for the cheap seats... YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT you fucking idiot. I never said that my opinions don't count, never said that anyone else's opinions don't count. What I said was I don't want retards like YOU to have a say in the way the board is run and this place is a waste of space that facilitates nothing other than making people feel important.

[Coyote]

There's some tail-chasing and sniping about what the House of Commons is and/or can be. While I have used the phrase "this is your Senate" in the recent past, my meaning should probably be clarified-- this is your place to bring up issues that concern you about how things are run here. It can be board administration, it can be culture, it can be rules, whatever-- but bear in mind a few things when using this forum.

No one, not a Moderator or Admin, can truly dictate or legislate maturity level or content. Naturally, we can encourage a certain level of maturity and content but in the long run, it comes down to the person clicking the mouse on "Submit".

Now, if people want to use this as little more than a Vent & Gripe platform, that is their perogative but I'd remind folks that we have an established Venting area already, so rather than needlessly duplicating efforts, it would be far, far more useful to use this forum as a potential hall for more meaningful discussion. Remember that the Senate itself did not have a lot of posts in it all the time-- looking for things to grumble about is not the mark of progress.

While showing initiative is good, it should not be a place for preening and pretending; and preferably not for bringing up endless fluffy-bunny topics when one single "board culture" thread might do to address a number of minor points. Trust me, the House of Commons is not the testing ground for potential new Senators, although it could be used for that if desired. Here's a hint about leadership-- usually, people who openly desire, aspire and seek command are the ones least qualified to wield it.

People wanted a voice; expressed concern about not having a say in decisions being made. They got a place for just that. Use it well.