Modesto Priest: Catholic Obama supporters have sinned

[Civil War Man]

Link

MODESTO (AP) ― A Roman Catholic priest has told parishioners they should confess if they voted for Barack Obama because the president-elect supports abortion.

The Rev. Joseph Illo says his parishioners at St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Modesto shouldn't risk losing their "state of grace" by receiving communion sacrilegiously. He delivered the message in a Nov. 21 letter and during mass.

In an interview this week with the Modesto Bee, Illo says he sent the letter because Catholic teaching requires that people go to confession when they commit a mortal sin.

During the 2008 campaign, many bishops told Catholic politicians and voters that abortion should be the most important consideration in deciding which candidate to back.

For those unfamiliar with Catholic dogma, I shall enlighten you as to what this guy is talking about. Since Catholicism believes that communion is literally eating the flesh of Jesus (see Transubstantiation), the dogma has been that if you have committed some sort of sin (i.e. if you are a person), it is blasphemous to receive communion unless you go through confession in order to have those sins forgiven. Receiving communion while "tarnished" by sin damns you to Hell. Lying in a confessional damns you to Hell.

I didn't have to deal with that bullshit because the Catholic stuff I had to go through when I was a kid was toned down by Vatican II and New England liberalism. My parents and grandparents had to deal with it all the time, which is why most of them, my father and maternal grandfather being the exception, are lapsed Catholics at most.

What this priest is basically saying is that any Catholic who voted for Obama committed a mortal sin, and him bringing up this outdated dogmatic shit seems to be indicative of the rolling back of Vatican II's attempt to make the church a bit more modern and liberal.

I'll finish off with a tiny nitpick, which is that the article refers to the priest as "The Reverend Joseph Illo", which as far as I know is a uniquely Protestant title. Since he is a Catholic priest, his official moniker would be "Father Joseph Illo"

[General Zod]

Wasn't this posted in OT a couple weeks ago?

[Zixinus]

Doesn't the Church has rules against this short of shit? You know, "Let Ceaser's be Ceaser's" and that? I'm not a Catholic, so I don't know.

During the 2008 campaign, many bishops told Catholic politicians and voters that abortion should be the most important consideration in deciding which candidate to back.

Excuse me, but isn't the USA going trough a hell marry of shit with the banks, markets, companies and you know, the economy? Things that are, with just a little objectivity, are far more important than this bloody fucking shit?

Then again, when you live tax-free and off of your faithful followers I guess that things like the welfare of the people isn't that important.

[CarsonPalmer]

You aren't entirely accurately representing Catholic teaching here.

For those unfamiliar with Catholic dogma, I shall enlighten you as to what this guy is talking about. Since Catholicism believes that communion is literally eating the flesh of Jesus (see Transubstantiation), the dogma has been that if you have committed some sort of sin (i.e. if you are a person), it is blasphemous to receive communion unless you go through confession in order to have those sins forgiven. Receiving communion while "tarnished" by sin damns you to Hell. Lying in a confessional damns you to Hell.

Not entirely. A Catholic priest would say that a mortal sin puts you in danger of going to Hell, but you aren't necessarily damned to Hell. Also, a Catholic could always say in Confession five years later, "I received Communion when I wasn't in a state of grace and I lied at Confession.", and would be considered absolved entirely.

A third route is something the Church doesn't talk about too often, called an Act of Perfect Contrition, in which someone who has sinned mortally intends to go to confession, or at the very least feels genuinely sorry for their sin, in which case that person would be treated as if they had just walked out of a confessional.

Because of all these, one of the biggest things in Catholic teaching is that no one can say for certain if someone goes to Heaven or Hell.

I didn't have to deal with that bullshit because the Catholic stuff I had to go through when I was a kid was toned down by Vatican II and New England liberalism. My parents and grandparents had to deal with it all the time, which is why most of them, my father and maternal grandfather being the exception, are lapsed Catholics at most.

What this priest is basically saying is that any Catholic who voted for Obama committed a mortal sin, and him bringing up this outdated dogmatic shit seems to be indicative of the rolling back of Vatican II's attempt to make the church a bit more modern and liberal.

I'll finish off with a tiny nitpick, which is that the article refers to the priest as "The Reverend Joseph Illo", which as far as I know is a uniquely Protestant title. Since he is a Catholic priest, his official moniker would be "Father Joseph Illo"

The Church can't roll back Vatican II, because then they'd be admitting Vatican II was wrong, and they won't ever do that (Church teaching is that Church councils can't be wrong on matters of faith). There are also rogue priests out there, but very few bishops and cardinals (other than a few retired bishops, one in Denver, and one in New York) have actually said that voting for Obama would have been a mortal sin.

The only thing they have said unequivocally is that it would be a mortal sin to vote for Obama due to the fact that he is pro-choice. Anything else is up to the individual.

[Civil War Man]

Wasn't this posted in OT a couple weeks ago?

The time stamp on the story is the end of November, so either the link I posted reported it much later, or the stories of priests railing against pro-choice candidates are really similar and running together.

Not entirely. A Catholic priest would say that a mortal sin puts you in danger of going to Hell, but you aren't necessarily damned to Hell.

I wrote that in perspective of the Catholicism of my parents and grandparents, where lying in a confessional, receiving communion while not in a state of grace, eating a cheeseburger on a Friday, etc., meant you were going to Hell. Not might, were.

[folti78]

Doesn't the Church has rules against this short of shit? You know, "Let Ceaser's be Ceaser's" and that? I'm not a Catholic, so I don't know.

Doesn't the more pushy/power hungry members of the church bend the rules occasionally* to test or get more leverage on their flock? And the higher-ups probably approve it silently?

During the 2008 campaign, many bishops told Catholic politicians and voters that abortion should be the most important consideration in deciding which candidate to back.

Excuse me, but isn't the USA going trough a hell marry of shit with the banks, markets, companies and you know, the economy? Things that are, with just a little objectivity, are far more important than this bloody fucking shit?

Then again, when you live tax-free and off of your faithful followers I guess that things like the welfare of the people isn't that important.

I guess it won't be the first time the church don't give a shit about things affecting their flock as long as they unquestioningly follow the current church dogma about the most important issues? And when they don't, they'll try to use scaremongering tactics like this to get the stray ones back to the flock?

* read any time they can get away with it

[Mayabird]

Wasn't this posted in OT a couple weeks ago?

It was a different guy (in South Carolina) saying just about the same thing.
[line 2]

[CarsonPalmer]

That South Carolina priest, as a side note, has since been censured by his bishop. The Catholic Church hasn't taken a party line here, regardless of what certain pastors want people to think.

[de.rigueur]

What I would really like to know is how the Priest's comments were received by the congregation. Do the large majority of Catholics really identify with such a stance? Was his congregation particularly nitpicky on the issue of abortion? Some context would make the story much more informative.

I cannot fathom how they can fail to understand that a meaningful vote must entail an appraisal of most, if not all, the policies and positions held by the candidate. The Church's overemphasis on the singular issue of abortion is rather imbalanced, not to mention myopic. To elect the president of the United States solely on the issue of abortion?

[Magus]

As I recall from my days as a Catholic, it would not be acceptable to vote for Obama because of his views on abortion. However, voting for Obama despite his views on abortion would not be a problem, so long as he was genuinely believed to be the better candidate.

These priests are, AFAIK, full of shit.

[Crown]

The Byzantine Emperor's had the right idea, no not Leo V (IIRC) and his war on the Monasteries (although that was cool too), but I'm talking about the early ones who would be baptised on their death beds. Confession? Who needs that when you have insta-absolution!

[La Maupin]

As I recall from my days as a Catholic, it would not be acceptable to vote for Obama because of his views on abortion. However, voting for Obama despite his views on abortion would not be a problem, so long as he was genuinely believed to be the better candidate.

These priests are, AFAIK, full of shit.

This.

There were also a number of priests who argued that the Catholic line (abortion is impermissible full stop) was argued with Roe v. Wade and lost, and that further refighting of that battle will only further entrench what is already settled law; so the correct action going forward is to vote for candidates and policies that reduce the absolute number of abortions being procured and performed.

I'd piss people off at church when I was younger by asking what pro-lifers did for people who were already born. They never seemed to have a ready answer for that one.

[Qwerty 42]

Doesn't the Church has rules against this short of shit? You know, "Let Ceaser's be Ceaser's" and that? I'm not a Catholic, so I don't know.

During the 2008 campaign, many bishops told Catholic politicians and voters that abortion should be the most important consideration in deciding which candidate to back.

Excuse me, but isn't the USA going trough a hell marry of shit with the banks, markets, companies and you know, the economy? Things that are, with just a little objectivity, are far more important than this bloody fucking shit?

Then again, when you live tax-free and off of your faithful followers I guess that things like the welfare of the people isn't that important.

Well, if the government was murdering people by the thousands, I would vote for the party that would make that illegal, even if it went against my financial interests. Many conservatives believe that abortion is murder, and therefore I can understand why they would vote Republican, even if the initial premise is flawed.

As an aside, I like your avatar, CWM.

[Zixinus]

Well, if the government was murdering people by the thousands, I would vote for the party that would make that illegal, even if it went against my financial interests. Many conservatives believe that abortion is murder, and therefore I can understand why they would vote Republican, even if the initial premise is flawed.

Yes, I forgot to view it trough fundie-vision. It makes more sense that way.

As an aside, I like your avatar, CWM.

Mine or Crown's?

[Imperial Overlord]

As an aside, I like your avatar, CWM.

Mine or Crown's?

I believe he's refering to Civil War Man's Santa Lincoln.

[Rogue 9]

I'll finish off with a tiny nitpick, which is that the article refers to the priest as "The Reverend Joseph Illo", which as far as I know is a uniquely Protestant title. Since he is a Catholic priest, his official moniker would be "Father Joseph Illo"

I don't know what it signifies in the church hierarchy, but there are Catholic officials who are addressed as "The Right Reverend [Name]." The monastery in the next town has pictures of the sitting bishops and cardinals (as well as the Pope) lining one of the hallways, and some of them (usually pictured in cardinal's robes) are captioned the Right Reverend Whatshisface. Having never looked into it beyond casually looking at some portraits, I don't know more than that.

[The Dark]

I'll finish off with a tiny nitpick, which is that the article refers to the priest as "The Reverend Joseph Illo", which as far as I know is a uniquely Protestant title. Since he is a Catholic priest, his official moniker would be "Father Joseph Illo"

I don't know what it signifies in the church hierarchy, but there are Catholic officials who are addressed as "The Right Reverend [Name]." The monastery in the next town has pictures of the sitting bishops and cardinals (as well as the Pope) lining one of the hallways, and some of them (usually pictured in cardinal's robes) are captioned the Right Reverend Whatshisface. Having never looked into it beyond casually looking at some portraits, I don't know more than that.

Bishops are Right Reverend (except in the UK, where Archbishops are Right Reverend, and Bishops are Most Reverend). Referring to Joseph Illo as The Reverend Joseph Illo is correct, however. "Father" is used only in verbal references (and in non-Continental Europe), not written references. In written works, "The Reverend" is always correct as a reference to a minister of any Christian denomination.

[Qwerty 42]

As an aside, I like your avatar, CWM.

Mine or Crown's?

I believe he's refering to Civil War Man's Santa Lincoln.

Yes, that would be correct.