Master Debater beta (opinions)

[Dooey Jo]

I have made a game, yet again, but before I take it too far in one direction or other, I'd like to get some opinions on the general idea and basic gameplay. And everything else too, basically.

Download (it's about 14 MB)
Screens + some info (and also download link)

You move around with the arrow keys, jump/select with ctrl, enter is the "action button", and escape pauses the game (and cancels cancellable things), but all the controls are configurable, and it's also possible to plug in a controller and use that. I've tested with an Xbox360 controller, but I'm sure it'll work with most types (though the key codes are probably different, so you might have to configure them). To get you started, you can talk to the old guy in the toga, but there are eight other characters in the town, seven of which can be debated in the right circumstances.


The things I'm mostly interested in is:
- The "Debating Mode": Is it fun/boring/gimmicky/weird? Does it flow "naturally" from the other gameplay mode; is it easy to understand why a debate was started (if there wasn't an obvious "start debate" choice)? A few techniques have "action commands" (Humour, Advanced Humour, and Your Mother). I was thinking all of the techniques would have this, though I haven't been able to create something natural, yet fun for the other argument types (for logical arguments, I was thinking about letting the player solve some simple math or something, but that's just terrible), but apparently the way they did it in Paper Mario is a trope. What say you? I personally thought that was a pretty nice addition to IMO generally tedious RPG-type battles.

- Navigating the town: Is it disorienting when the perspective suddenly changes when you press the up/down keys to go down alleys and run around corners and things, or is it easy to get used to?

- "Non-linear" stories. It's currently not very noticeable in the demo, but the outcomes of some debates and some semi-unconscious choices like visiting certain places, affects the story in certain ways. Like that infatuated guy with the rose (he's in an alley). It's possible to convince him that he doesn't have a chance with that girl, so he doesn't even try, and this might cause the story to go in a different direction than if you can't convince him, or something else. So the points where the story fork are supposed to be non-obvious like that, which will hopefully make it seem like the story isn't non-linear, it's just a natural story, but it happens to be pretty different between different players. How do you feel about that idea? (Don't worry about the implementation, I'm pretty sure I've figured out how to do it in a manageable way)

- The art style and sounds/music. It's supposed to be a pseudo-Roman world, but I obviously don't have the time to create super-next-gen resources, so I did something simple.


Also, yes, I know what the name is slang for. This game is obviously not supposed to be serious business

So yeah, help please

[salm]

Very nice idea.

Debating Mode:
I like the ones that come with minigames (humor, advanced humor and your mother). In fact they´re the only ones that make sense to me. There´s no point in having the options that can´t be influence by the player. I´d make them a bit more complex, though. You could make the speed of the indicator in the humor ones different every time you use it. You could also put the point where to hit the punch line at a random place every time. What would also be interesting is to increase the difficulty if the player choses one type of argument a lot of times in a row. I never use basic logic because it´s not granted to win whereas basic humor will allways win because it´s almost impossible to miss the punch line.
But if i use basic humor more than, say, two times in a row it will become more difficult to hit the punch line it might make sense to use something different instead.

There should be some sort of defence mode. If you´re attacked by the other guy you should be able to counter his attack. With some minigame perhaps.
It could be interesting to do a counter minigame. For humor for example, the debator who is closer to the perfect punch line point will win.

I wasn´t able to find out if you can refill your stats somehow. I think you should be able to do so. Perhaps by successfully countering an attack or something like that.

Are there certain combos of arguments that increase damage?

If you are hit by certain arguments, i saw, you can get negative marks on some skills like reduced attack and things like that. The text goes away incredibly fast and it´s impossible to remember. it would be good if the text stayed there until the negative marks are gone.


Interface:
One thing that is extremely annoying is that if you talk to someone and hit the enter or ctrl button again while the text is appearing the game will choose the first answer option. It would be a lot better if you press the ctrl button and then the text is spelled out completely. Only after that you can choose an option.


Navigation:
Very confusing. The changing perspective make it unplayable. Also, everything looks pretty much the same, i´d implement more key scenes which the player can remember more easily.


Art Style:
The setting in ancient rome is very good and adequat. The grafics appear quite flat and could use some nicer shading. However, the main problem with them is that they don´t support the navigation. You should introduce more unique orientation points like the fountain.

[Dooey Jo]

Very nice idea.

Debating Mode:
I like the ones that come with minigames (humor, advanced humor and your mother). In fact they´re the only ones that make sense to me. There´s no point in having the options that can´t be influence by the player. I´d make them a bit more complex, though. You could make the speed of the indicator in the humor ones different every time you use it. You could also put the point where to hit the punch line at a random place every time. What would also be interesting is to increase the difficulty if the player choses one type of argument a lot of times in a row. I never use basic logic because it´s not granted to win whereas basic humor will allways win because it´s almost impossible to miss the punch line.
But if i use basic humor more than, say, two times in a row it will become more difficult to hit the punch line it might make sense to use something different instead.

I was thinking of doing something like this, rewarding the player for using different types of arguments, but I also have the strength/weakness system, which rewards the player for using the weaknesses of the opponent, so there would be a conflict there. On the other hand, this could offer a deeper challenge and give an incentive to find out all of the opponent's weaknesses and use them all (wow, that sounds evil)...

There should be some sort of defence mode. If you´re attacked by the other guy you should be able to counter his attack. With some minigame perhaps.
It could be interesting to do a counter minigame. For humor for example, the debator who is closer to the perfect punch line point will win.

Yes, that is a good idea. The NPCs have their "natural" strengths and weaknesses against certain argument types, but the player has none, so making "anti-flames" and "joke killers" and whatnots could be a good substitute for that (more fun than the traditional way of using stat altering items, I think).

I wasn´t able to find out if you can refill your stats somehow. I think you should be able to do so. Perhaps by successfully countering an attack or something like that.

I was planning to have items and "special arguments" for that (they're not implemented yet, so they're grey in the selection box), since I don't want the player to do it too often or it might be too easy. Outside of debates, you can refill them by talking to the old man (and also the girl, while she's there), but in the finished version the idea is that there should be certain places where you can rest, and refill the stats that way.

Are there certain combos of arguments that increase damage?

No, not yet, but it's another one of those ideas I've had. I haven't thought of a good way to implement them without them becoming too arbitrary, and there's also a balancing factor to them.

If you are hit by certain arguments, i saw, you can get negative marks on some skills like reduced attack and things like that. The text goes away incredibly fast and it´s impossible to remember. it would be good if the text stayed there until the negative marks are gone.

Hm, the text is supposed to stay there for 4 seconds, or until a button is pressed, and there are currently 10 different status conditions, so that could potentially be a lot of text. However, I could display the combined effects of the conditions, instead of just the icons, and have the condition presented visually instead. I was going to this last thing anyway; if a character is "burned", it's supposed be on fire, and if it's sleeping, it's supposed to, well, sleep.

Interface:
One thing that is extremely annoying is that if you talk to someone and hit the enter or ctrl button again while the text is appearing the game will choose the first answer option. It would be a lot better if you press the ctrl button and then the text is spelled out completely. Only after that you can choose an option.

Yes, that's actually what is supposed to happen Pressing the button while the text is ticking is supposed to show all the text and the options, and then you should be able to choose.
Does this happen all the time? I know it can happen if you keep the button pressed for a while, because that's how the Windows keyboard events work (if you keep a key pressed long enough, it simulates it being pressed repeatedly).

Navigation:
Very confusing. The changing perspective make it unplayable. Also, everything looks pretty much the same, i´d implement more key scenes which the player can remember more easily.

Art Style:
The setting in ancient rome is very good and adequat. The grafics appear quite flat and could use some nicer shading. However, the main problem with them is that they don´t support the navigation. You should introduce more unique orientation points like the fountain.

Yes, I suspected this would be the case. I'm so used to it, so it's hard for me to judge these things. I originally wanted to have a town with a 3D layout, but 2D navigation, but it seems that it just gets confusing so I'm going make it more linear, like the towns in Zelda 2, and maybe a few back alleys.

Thanks for the reply, BTW!

[salm]

I was thinking of doing something like this, rewarding the player for using different types of arguments, but I also have the strength/weakness system, which rewards the player for using the weaknesses of the opponent, so there would be a conflict there. On the other hand, this could offer a deeper challenge and give an incentive to find out all of the opponent's weaknesses and use them all (wow, that sounds evil)...

Ah, i didn´t notice the strength/weakness system. Is it explained somewhere?

Yes, that's actually what is supposed to happen Pressing the button while the text is ticking is supposed to show all the text and the options, and then you should be able to choose.
Does this happen all the time? I know it can happen if you keep the button pressed for a while, because that's how the Windows keyboard events work (if you keep a key pressed long enough, it simulates it being pressed repeatedly).

On my system it happened all the time. One click while the text is building up and instantly the first option is chosen.

Yes, I suspected this would be the case. I'm so used to it, so it's hard for me to judge these things. I originally wanted to have a town with a 3D layout, but 2D navigation, but it seems that it just gets confusing so I'm going make it more linear, like the towns in Zelda 2, and maybe a few back alleys.

Thanks for the reply, BTW!

I know, that´s really hard when designing levels. Your so used to it that you think it´s impossible to miss certain things but people who have never played it will.
There was a xbox 360 game that had a nice solution to this. It was some ninja game with sword fighting and magic. I can´t remember the name but it went like this:
The levels were circles. the player could move in both directions but after running long enough in one direction he would get to the beginning again.
At certain points within such a circle the player can move to other circles. When moving to other circles a map is displayed making it easier for the player to stay on top of things.

[Dooey Jo]

Ah, i didn´t notice the strength/weakness system. Is it explained somewhere?

Well, not exactly. The old man says that it exists, and that he can't seem to understand jokes. If you pause the game and go to the "Journal" there's an entry that outlines the different argument types and whom they might be effective on, but that's about it. I'm going to create the University (yay, rough concept art), where the player can learn the finer details of debating.

On my system it happened all the time. One click while the text is building up and instantly the first option is chosen.

I'll see what might be causing that. These kind of bugs that only happen for other people are the worst.

I know, that´s really hard when designing levels. Your so used to it that you think it´s impossible to miss certain things but people who have never played it will.
There was a xbox 360 game that had a nice solution to this. It was some ninja game with sword fighting and magic. I can´t remember the name but it went like this:
The levels were circles. the player could move in both directions but after running long enough in one direction he would get to the beginning again.
At certain points within such a circle the player can move to other circles. When moving to other circles a map is displayed making it easier for the player to stay on top of things.

Interesting. Sounds like a variation of those old games that had levels that started over when you went far enough. For example the final level in Kid Icarus, which repeats if you don't kill enough enemies.