Someone explain to me how Dead Space is good

[Stark]

LOL wiki says the game suggests the planet was destroyed. Drop rock = death star.

[Lagmonster]

Dead Space cannot be critically evaluated to contain anything original - when I played it through, I treated it as a zombie obliteration simulator. Any game that lets you send parts of zombies flying in all directions appeals to the inner sense of satisfaction one gets from applying vastly overpowered weaponry to squishy body parts of loathesome creature that totally have it coming for some reason. With the exception of the Incredible Hulk and Mr. regeneration, I didn't encounter any monster that didn't have puréed limbs after one round of any gun. Sure the gameplay and story wasn't original. Since when does original mean fun? So I'll give Dead Space full points for marketing. It delivered precisely what it advertised: dismembering zombies on a derelict space ship.

As an aside, I think the most satisfying thing I saw in the whole game was the crazy religious nut guy, bane of my existence, who'd murdered dozens and tried to kill me piles of times, DIDN'T get mutated into a giant boss. He just walked up to a monster and died. The game plot didn't call for him to recieve some alien blessing and be transformed into the Incredible Corpse, he just gets eaten like everyone else. After embracing so many cliches, avoiding the one of "despite what happened to everyone else, the important bad guys must be transformed into gods by the disgusting menace" was actually worthy of notice.

[Zixinus]

What I must point out is the weapons:

None of them are actual tools, with possible exception to the ripper. They're guns, pure and simple. When I think of turning tools into improvised weapons, I think melee combat. Melee combat is great for horror: it is messy, it is scary and it is brutal. But no, we have to use guns instead.

What was aggressively unnecessary was upgrades. Yes, it is imaginable that people upgrade their tools but what we were given was completely unnecessary, unfit for a horror game and quite stupid.

[chitoryu12]

Really, I've never played Dead Space because of the story or originality. I'm a fan of games with plenty of violence and "Hey, let's play head soccer!" moments, so I play it because it lets me blow zombies to pieces in a pretty environment.

I'm also a big fan of The Thing, so any game that reminds me of it (Aliens take over a desolate area in the universe and turn the local population into crazy monsters) makes me nostalgic anyway.

[wautd]

The game brings a lot of clichés together (standard story, environment,...) and wraps it in a nice atmosphere. Nothing really new or groundbreaking but well presented. The game is simply good, but not great.

edit: this is my opinion at 30% of the game or so. The thing that stuck to me the most so far was the giant centrifuge. (OK, it's designed to be a giant death trap but it was just the way to give me a slight panic sensation when I suddenly find myself in open space, assaulted by zombies in the middle of a deadly machine)

[SylasGaunt]

What I must point out is the weapons:

None of them are actual tools, with possible exception to the ripper. They're guns, pure and simple. When I think of turning tools into improvised weapons, I think melee combat. Melee combat is great for horror: it is messy, it is scary and it is brutal. But no, we have to use guns instead.

Eh, most of the justifications for them worked well enough for me, i.e. Plasma Cutter- For cutting rocks, Line Gun- For cutting/demolition of bigger rocks, flamethrower- melting ice.

I haven't read anything on the later weapons so maybe this falls off but the devs at least pointed out what those are for.

[Zixinus]

Eh, most of the justifications for them worked well enough for me, i.e. Plasma Cutter- For cutting rocks, Line Gun- For cutting/demolition of bigger rocks, flamethrower- melting ice.

I haven't read anything on the later weapons so maybe this falls off but the devs at least pointed out what those are for.

Too bad that if you don't read them, you will never figure them out. Furthermore, the functionality really doesn't strike me as the one described.

I mean, since when to engineers use FLAME THROWERS to destroy ice? Surely in a futuristic environment a little microwave bombardment or even some nice chemical should have been able to do the job well.

The rock cutting thing doesn't make sense in the ranges for the same reason why coal miners don't use shotguns instead of pickaxes.

Again, if these were melee weapons, this would have made sense. But as it is, they're guns, plain and simple.

[Stark]

People like irrelevant monologuing npcs that exist solely to trick you into thinking there's a plot? LOL. It's pretty funny that they spent so much effort on the story that doesn't make any sense, is irrelevant and is ignored even by no standards zombie obsessives. Bonus points for including 'defeat by walking slowly to one side' bosses, too.

[Stark]

OK I have to lay out the plot here because it's so stupid and nobody's motives make sense. The evil cultist guy is the most consistent character; he wasn't ironically killed by his own creation, he KNEW he was going to die because HIS WHOLE RELIGION WAS BUILT ON THIS IDEA. He constantly talks about death being the first step to new life and anyone who missed this is a fucking idiot.

Anyway, let's see if spoiler tags work for Ole Stark.
Spoiler

So Kynes and Isaac are being controlled by the hive mind to return the monolith to the surface; Kynes believes it will 'trap' the hive mind down there which just seems to be part of the manipulation. Kendra wants to steal it, and so blows Kynes away with a magic pistol that puts a hole in the front of people it shoots from the side. She then scarpers on a shuttle with no Shockpoint drive and an active remote control system. The hivemind encourages you to recall the shuttle (even the computers are covered in alien script at this point) and Kendra ejects. So you're now doing what the hivemind wants, and yet on the surface you still have to fight bad guys as you play Fat fucking Controller on a goddamn trainset. As you close on the crater the hivemind gets really desperate to stop you doing what it's telling you to do. Bringing the monolith to the pedestal apparently disables the gravity tethers for the giant rock (ummm... somehow...) and this destroys the hivemind as you escape. So... what was the hivemind's plan? To kill itself? Why didn't Kendra just play along and waste Kynes and Isaac once they were in the shuttle and nobody could recall it? Where was she going, with the Valor destroyed and with no FTL? Why would Isaac even CARE if she wanted to take the monolith?

The pinnacle of the story is that the Unitology religion was created by the monolith, which predestined the whole sequence of events by preparing a group of nutbars who want to do what they're told. It was a nice touch that everyone kept muttering about 'being whole again' (in a way that the blatant in-your-face constant phonecalls WASN'T) but this apparently means 'hivemind is fucking stupid'. Compared to all this, Mr Unitology makes perfect sense in his consistent and semi-logical insistence on following the tenets of Unitology. Even Isaac's arc is broken, because instead of being traumatised and UNABLE to play the video all the way through but COMPELLED to watch it over and over because he can't let go, he's just TOO FUCKING STUPID. He could easily have been a tragic figure who was predisposed to psychic manipulation, but instead he's just a gormless idiot.

[chitoryu12]

The rock cutting thing doesn't make sense in the ranges for the same reason why coal miners don't use shotguns instead of pickaxes.

I'm not sure where it was mentioned in the game (I read it on the Dead Space wiki), but the plasma cutters weren't used for mining, just chopping rocks into smaller pieces so they would fit in the smelters.

[Stark]

Which is funny since the mining thing is done with gravity funnels and rotating armatures.

[Molyneux]

If you want decent video-game horror, you might want to check out Fatal Frame - I've only played the second, but it's much more "creepy as fuck" atmospheric horror than, say, DeadSpace.

Broken Neck Woman haunts my nightmares, really.

[Zixinus]

I'm not sure where it was mentioned in the game (I read it on the Dead Space wiki), but the plasma cutters weren't used for mining, just chopping rocks into smaller pieces so they would fit in the smelters.

Tell me, in real life, do you think people use shotguns or machine guns to do the same thing? Do you think that they use a machine gun to size up say, bauxit?

Or do they use heavy-duty cutting tools?

[Zixinus]

To answer Stark's question:

The game is good because it can scare the player while playing as a regular TPS. TPSs are familiar to both the hardcore and casual crowd, thus the game is very comfortable to play. Since the average reviewer is a neurotic nerd who's idea of scary is "ZOMBIES!!!", to them the occasional startle of Dead Space is enough. To them, the blatant rip-offs from both video games and movies (and even novels) is "reference" and "nods". For them, the idea of putting in aggressively pointless and unnecessary things, like the upgrade features and making all your weapons guns, is an expected feature.

Does that answer your question?

[Andrew_Fireborn]

[Spoilers]

Spoiler

Actually, the monolith, despite being a man made recreation of the original, had its own batch of 'mind powers' and was what was controlling Isaac.

But I agree, the Hive Mind was stupid... As was the killing of Kynes.

The video of Nicole... I probably give them too much credit, but I think Kendra, or one of her higher ups cut the end off. And she actually gave him the full version at the end. Then again, I never checked to see if the video was in the log files for chapter one.

As for the weapons... Yeah, they're all blatant guns, I'm actually a little PO'd about it, as there was an Energy Chainsaw in the movie that didn't make it into the game at all. (It looks like it was originally going to be the Contact beam... Which makes its name make sense at least...)

As far as difficulty, most folks would say play it again on Insane, and while it is a fair bit harder, and Pinky the undying is a much greater threat, the regular enemies only take two to three more hits from the PC, and that reduces to per limb once it's fully upgraded. Which you can do by chapter four in a one-gun run... But since you've already beaten the game once to unlock 'Impossible,' its much easier by fact of absolutely nothing changing except enemy HP and damage. Hell, if you're much like me you were figuring out the enemy spawn flags well before they happened.

In the end: Yeah, its a Paint-by-numbers "horror" game, but it was fun for me, even with the obvious event/enemy scripting. I also don't feel ripped off because, compared to my other major purchases around the time it came out, it was completely bug free and stable. (Though, I feel incredibly PO'd every time I realize that I'm considering that a compliment... Damn you Fable 2, Mercs 2, and Fallout 3!)

[Losonti Tokash]

I'm not sure where it was mentioned in the game (I read it on the Dead Space wiki), but the plasma cutters weren't used for mining, just chopping rocks into smaller pieces so they would fit in the smelters.

Tell me, in real life, do you think people use shotguns or machine guns to do the same thing? Do you think that they use a machine gun to size up say, bauxit?

Or do they use heavy-duty cutting tools?

I'm not defending the other weapons because like I said, I've only used the cutter, but I'm not sure that a shotgun or machine gun is directly comparable to a hand-held device that cuts small, pre-defined lines through things instantly.

[Zixinus]

I'm not defending the other weapons because like I said, I've only used the cutter, but I'm not sure that a shotgun or machine gun is directly comparable to a hand-held device that cuts small, pre-defined lines through things instantly.

Yes, they're not, when you don't have to do things like aim from a distance. In case of a cutting, there is absolutely no reason to make a tool able to work from several metres of a distance. In case of cutting up big rocks to more manageable chunks, you want precision and for that you have to go in close. There is no reason why not to, rocks don't attack you (unless they're full of explosive gases, but I guess you need special tools for that sort of shit). You can go up to it and just start cutting trough your (possibly) planned path.

While the cutters are not quite comparable to a shotgun or machine gun, they're functionally far more closer to a modern firearm than any sort of cutting tool imaginable (unless your idea of cutting up rocks involves target practise).

I mean, Isaac was able to use one of these things as a weapon off-the-bat, without any apparent modifications. On the first or second chapter, you are quickly able to get a military-grade (game's description!) weapon.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how any of the weapons (with the exception of the ripper) are not thinly-veiled excuses for guns.

[Stark]

Oh yeah, the replica is clearly doing stuff, but we know that for reasons unrelated to the plot. The Climax is still a muddy confused contrivance (walk slowly to left = boss can't hurt you) and the amount of time they wasted on pretentious irrelevances while leaving the main plot so jumbled is hilarious. Remove needless villan who rants and makes the threat mundane by humanizing it and have a plot that makes sense beyond 'foozle in the castle kills a wizard' and game is better.

[CaptHawkeye]

I'm getting a kick out of the descriptions I see in this thread. Even the zombie fans (or fan zombies, take your pick) dislike this game. This reminds me EXACTLY of Bioshock. IE: "Survival" game is popular for 2 weeks, and then everyone figures out it's boring bullshit that ripped off other games. It's almost as if EA was selling the game based on hype!

It's funny to watch this title tout itself as real survival horror. When yet again it just comes down to blatent abuse of the absurdly simple and underdeveloped gameplay mechanics. Looks like games these days aren't about applying what you would do in a given situation...and are instead about exploring the system until you find a hole that places you miles above the NPCs. Dead Space even has the nerve to be pretentious and loaded with cliches. All while putting precisely zero effort into so much as recognizing it's apparent plot holes. I played the demo and realized that, just like Force Unleashed, Fracture, Mercenaries 2, and Mirror's Edge, you've pretty much played the whole game after just 5 minutes.

[Covenant]

I just wish they'd rip things from the right games. From what I hear they had a good set of ideas--broken ship, mysterious story, bunch of odd equipment being used as weapons, and so forth. The Tactical Dismemberment thing was clearly one of their big ideas, but instead of sawing the arms off of zombies with a circular saw, using a laser to take out another one's legs, and then dashing out of the room... you run into the problem that plagues nearly every zombie game ever. If you stand still and just aim properly, all you have is an ugly, jibbly looking dude who isn't shooting back. I have never actually played a Zombie game where the amount of horrors coming after me were so great I had to retreat, unless I was also fighting the camera or somehow otherwise incapable of realistic engagement. RE1 and RE2 aren't good examples therefore, because I couldn't aim properly, so anything more than three and it's a becoming a problem.

AvP1 had a lot of good encounters with the Aliens though, where they'd come at you from all angles and swarm around, and one hit would kill you, and your gun made them explode into horrible, lethal bursts of acid. That was a pretty excellent feeling of survival horror in space, and not only is it a game but it's also several movies. It's not like Dead Space has to struggle to find good rolemodels. Hell, Alien even included a mining vessel and some hand-built weapons, so what's the deal, Dead Space? At the very least, force Isaac to collect a few fuzzles before he can upgrade his weapon completely into 'Obviously A Gun' mode. Would it really kill them to make one of the energy cutters have a range of like 3 feet until you upgrade it a few times?

I have no doubt they did, at some point, think it might be a good idea to do something like that. But I honestly don't know if it ever was a priority. I like to give game companies slack for having vision lost by reality, but these are pretty easy to impliment changes, especially when the entire game hinges on the combination of terror and tactical dismemberment. Making the game conventions revolve around that as well seems pretty obvious to me. The lack of this does not make Dead Space bad, but if there are really, really obvious conventions that worked in the past, it's not a bad thing to copy them. Players want to have fun--and if they're having fun all the time they won't stop and criticize a fun thing for being a copied fun thing.

[JointStrikeFighter]

AvP1 had a lot of good encounters with the Aliens though, where they'd come at you from all angles and swarm around, and one hit would kill you, and your gun made them explode into horrible, lethal bursts of acid. That was a pretty excellent feeling of survival horror in space, and not only is it a game but it's also several movies. It's not like Dead Space has to struggle to find good rolemodels. Hell, Alien even included a mining vessel and some hand-built weapons, so what's the deal, Dead Space? At the very least, force Isaac to collect a few fuzzles before he can upgrade his weapon completely into 'Obviously A Gun' mode. Would it really kill them to make one of the energy cutters have a range of like 3 feet until you upgrade it a few times?

Cov man I recently dicovered AVP1 and it was bitchin. Here's to Alien Colonial Marines being as cool.

[wautd]

I'm getting a kick out of the descriptions I see in this thread. Even the zombie fans (or fan zombies, take your pick) dislike this game. This reminds me EXACTLY of Bioshock. IE: "Survival" game is popular for 2 weeks, and then everyone figures out it's boring bullshit that ripped off other games. It's almost as if EA was selling the game based on hype!

It's not like Bioshock was lacking in originality, but I wouldn't call it a survival game since you couldn't really die in the first place.

[General Zod]

I'm getting a kick out of the descriptions I see in this thread. Even the zombie fans (or fan zombies, take your pick) dislike this game. This reminds me EXACTLY of Bioshock. IE: "Survival" game is popular for 2 weeks, and then everyone figures out it's boring bullshit that ripped off other games. It's almost as if EA was selling the game based on hype!

It's not like Bioshock was lacking in originality, but I wouldn't call it a survival game since you couldn't really die in the first place.

Or the fact that it had decent controls. I swear the point of 90% of all "survival" games is to see how long you can stand playing with such a slow, lumbering character and put up with controls that aren't exactly a good example of responsiveness.

[CaptHawkeye]

That's actually pretty funny Zod, one of the things I liked about Dead Space was Isaac's slow, clumsy melee attacks and movements. The guy's [supposed to be] a civil engineer in a heavy work suit after all, not a space ninja.

[General Zod]

That's actually pretty funny Zod, one of the things I liked about Dead Space was Isaac's slow, clumsy melee attacks and movements. The guy's [supposed to be] a civil engineer in a heavy work suit after all, not a space ninja.

This is exactly the mindset I take issue with. Since when does "survival horror" mean "the character must walk around like he has the coordination of a retarded 10 year old"? The hilarious thing is I didn't think Dead Space has an issue with that the way most survival games do because it did a fairly good job in making the controls non retarded. I was talking about the survival genre in general. (I'm looking at you Resident Evil).