SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread IV

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Fin, I haven't written it yet, I wanted to see if people would be okay with me doing so. I can start tonight and tomorrow.

Sure. Just that as one of the big neighbours that is right next to Japanistan, I would like to at least look at it. I won't press for any advantages, but I wouldn't like... something like a massive civil war erupting that sort of thing.

[Siege]

If I were to sit down and write a wrap-up that covers the ultimate fate of the sovereign nation of Astaria as well as their South Velerian alliance and what's been going on in Japanistan, could we just accept it and not have a short argument that results in everyone basically doing as they please? *gives a sardonic look at SiegeTank bringing back up the "ZOMBIE" stuff*

I don't think there's any way we can escape the conclusion that Astaria was annihilated ten times 'till tuesday. They were first completely covered by Shep's biogoo, and any survivors were then showered by Beowulf's second wave (and I think Beo also made it clear that any survivors would be showered *again*, until they were all dead). All Astarians ought to be dead, and their island so thoroughly contaminated that no-one in their right mind would go there. The zombies are just there for flavour (frankly the Romero-virus I personally found the least objectionable bit in all of Shep's bio-attack. If you're going to go all the way, might as well do it in style.)

[Zor]

I like the idea of a "28-Days-Later" type pathogen, where they're not truly "zombies" (ie, walking dead people) but basically hyper-adrenal, enraged people going on maximum angry brain chemistry. It can be an interesting side plot for a bit. Imagine an astronaut on a failed orbit that has to crash land... uh-oh...

I can dig it, so long as their minds are in enough of a working state to have enough proper drives so they can forage, eat, drink and search for shelter in harsh weather and as such be able to at least survive. None of that prerpetual motion machine zombie rubish.

Zor

[PeZook]

Hmm. Does FASTA have any use for aerospace scientists? We can also produce parts.

DUH. It's an organization devoted to development of technology to conquer and colonize space. What do you think?

We could use old-fashioned monies, too. In return, you get prestige and (most) of the results, in the form of rocket schematics and such.

Forgive my supreme ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by processing and reprocessing? My reactors currently work with natural uranium. My mines, altogether, can produce about 150 tonnes* of uranium a year, and my nuclear plants go through about three quarters of that.* How much can you handle?

By reprocessing, I mean taking the spent nuclear waste and turning it into plutonium, which you can use in MOX fuel mixture to get more energy per kilogram of natural uranium.

EDIT: On fuel loads, the typical CANDU reactor is loaded with around 100 tonnes of nuclear fuel (MOX, mix of uranium and plutonium). I don't know how often it needs to be refuelled, but if it burns through a single load once a year, a single reactor could easily burn through 1/3 of your total yearly supply.

Then again, your country is rather small population-wise, so two reactor supplying all the power you need is not out of the question.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Then again, your country is rather small population-wise, so two reactor supplying all the power you need is not out of the question.

I think the more appropriate measure is the size, productivity and the technology level of the said economy and not the population size.

[PeZook]

I think the more appropriate measure is the size, productivity and the technology level of the said economy and not the population size.

Industry size is somewhat proportional to population, and household power consumption is obviously directly related. His GDP is pretty small, anyways

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I think the more appropriate measure is the size, productivity and the technology level of the said economy and not the population size.

Industry size is somewhat proportional to population, and household power consumption is obviously directly related. His GDP is pretty small, anyways

Not really no... if you talk about Japan, they have industry quite large in proportion to the population. Remember that a lot of it these day is really automated, with entire production lines that are robots in rows.

[PeZook]

Not really no... if you talk about Japan, they have industry quite large in proportion to the population. Remember that a lot of it these day is really automated, with entire production lines that are robots in rows.

Uh, no. Japan has 127 million people and a GDP per capita of 33 thousand dollars. They're an example of a modern industrial economy, and look just like any other heavily industrialized state. There's nothing exceptional about them.

You always need a large population base if you want large industrial output. Who do you think builds these robots and services them? Who supports these guys with food, shoes,clothes and shelter? There's a certain proportion of labor to capital you can reach based on your tech level, but it only moves with leaps in technology.

Furthermore, a GDP of 400 billion is a GDP of 400 billion. It's obvious you'll use more electricity if that's 400 billion of industrial goods procuded, rather than 400 billion of financial weenie wages, but it's not gonna change by an order of magnitude.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Uh, no. Japan has 127 million people and a GDP per capita of 33 thousand dollars. They're an example of a modern industrial economy, and look just like any other heavily industrialized state. There's nothing exceptional about them.

You always need a large population base if you want large industrial output. Who do you think builds these robots and services them? Who supports these guys with food, shoes,clothes and shelter? There's a certain proportion of labor to capital you can reach based on your tech level, but it only moves with leaps in technology.

Furthermore, a GDP of 400 billion is a GDP of 400 billion. It's obvious you'll use more electricity if that's 400 billion of industrial goods procuded, rather than 400 billion of financial weenie wages, but it's not gonna change by an order of magnitude.

If you were to compare Japan with any economy of equal technology level, that would hold true. But if say I were to toss in China or India, that won't. In which case the issue is back to what I said: technology level, size and productivity. China/India do not match the technology level of Japan at all. They still have leagues to go.

And in a way, if one were to consider the size of the industry together with other factors, you also effectively encapsulate part of the population factor.

[PeZook]

And in a way, if one were to consider the size of the industry together with other factors, you also effectively encapsulate part of the population factor.

Well, yeah...but we're going for an order-of-magnitude estimate.

[Coyote]

I like the idea of a "28-Days-Later" type pathogen, where they're not truly "zombies" (ie, walking dead people) but basically hyper-adrenal, enraged people going on maximum angry brain chemistry. It can be an interesting side plot for a bit. Imagine an astronaut on a failed orbit that has to crash land... uh-oh...

I can dig it, so long as their minds are in enough of a working state to have enough proper drives so they can forage, eat, drink and search for shelter in harsh weather and as such be able to at least survive. None of that prerpetual motion machine zombie rubish.

Zor

Oh, sure-- in a way, they could be a little more complex, then. Maybe instead of "mere" 28 Days Later "zombies", perhaps more like... Reavers from Firefly. They'll eat & forage, etc, maybe even operate machinery to a point, and spend "down time" kinda shuffling around, growling and eyeing each other warily... but if someone runs away from them, then their mind just goes "click" and the hyper-rage washes over them and it's killin' time.

[CmdrWilkens]

Just as a general thought...we've actually managed to last nearly 4 in-game years this time around. Hell we might actually make it to the moon before we all kill each other and isn't that amzaing in and of itself. I just feel really wierd that I'm actually prepping stuff now for FY12 and it looks like my long-range plans might be worth actually developing.

[Steve]

I thought Beo only used chemical agents to punish Astaria for their counterattack on Shepistan being so indiscriminate?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I thought Beo only used chemical agents to punish Astaria for their counterattack on Shepistan being so indiscriminate?

I thought Shepistan retaliated anyway with massive force and that was the last and only attack? I might have missed something.

[RogueIce]

That said, is their territory up for grabs or has it already been claimed?

They joined the FUN (and became some kind of protectorate of Sirnoth or whatever) just before all of this. So the FUN is in control of Astaria, at least from a legal perspective.

[PeZook]

EVen if it wasn't, it's essentially a gigantic graveyard for a hundred million souls. Doing a landgrab there would be in...bad taste.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

EVen if it wasn't, it's essentially a gigantic graveyard for a hundred million souls. Doing a landgrab there would be in...bad taste.

I say we saturate the place with lots of Greek Fire as a funeral pyre.

At least we kill off most of the infestation...

[PeZook]

EVen if it wasn't, it's essentially a gigantic graveyard for a hundred million souls. Doing a landgrab there would be in...bad taste.

I say we saturate the place with lots of Greek Fire as a funeral pyre.

At least we kill off most of the infestation...

...asshole

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

...asshole

Hey, tell that to Siege. He says he wants to use Astaria as a satellite graveyard.

[PeZook]

...asshole

Hey, tell that to Siege. He says he wants to use Astaria as a satellite graveyard.

Oh, he's a hypercapitalist exploitation state, this label goes without saying

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

...asshole

Hey, tell that to Siege. He says he wants to use Astaria as a satellite graveyard.

Oh, he's a hypercapitalist exploitation state, this label goes without saying

What's wrong with burning Astaria? I'll have the Ecumenical Patriarch say some funeral rites while the burning goes on.

[PeZook]

I suppose there is nothing logically wrong with it, provided there are actually aren't any survivors.

It just seems assholish

And, uh...

Expensive

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I suppose there is nothing logically wrong with it, provided there are actually aren't any survivors.

It just seems assholish

And, uh...

Expensive

I'm fooding the bill! What's the compliant?!

I doubt there are any survivors. The viruses left there are very durable. And Shep used tonnes of anthrax and other fucking crap there.

[RogueIce]

I suppose there is nothing logically wrong with it, provided there are actually aren't any survivors.

It just seems assholish

Well given that those Shroomanian troops, according to Siege, are just gunning down anyone who approaches them, I suppose it's about the same thing anyway.

And, uh...

Expensive

Now that is a valid argument. But if Fingolfin wants to spend the money...

[Coiler]

Those Shroomanian troops may actually be a reason not to cause gigantic explosions around Astaria, since there might be an incident if they get killed.