For the Emperor! Banzai! (WH40K idea)

[Typhonis 1]

Wouldn't the Praetorians be considered Planet Zulu?

[YOURLIVER]

I personally don't think the Japanese would fit well into 40k very well, and the Imperium never followed any "Warrior Codes".

[Pulp Hero]

Fanatical devotion to a God-Emperor.

Human wave rushes that would make even the most hard hearted commissar proud.

Fighting to the last man.

Willingness to fight in close combat.

Yeah, I think they'll fit just fine.

[PeZook]

Wrong, the vast VAST majority of the small arms, munitions and vehicles used by the Red Army in WW2 were home grown, Lend Lease was relatively insignificant and only really picked up steam in later 44, by which time the Red Army had won most of the critical battles they had to fight against the Germans.

Stas actually posted statistics which showed something like 1:1.3 kill ratio in favor of the Germans. Pretty much blasted the "Russian human wave" myth to pieces.

Though when you included murdered POWs, it rose to a more favorable 1:1.8 (IIRC), but killing prisoners en masse hardly proves the fighting prowess of the Wehrmacht.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Wrong, the vast VAST majority of the small arms, munitions and vehicles used by the Red Army in WW2 were home grown, Lend Lease was relatively insignificant and only really picked up steam in later 44, by which time the Red Army had won most of the critical battles they had to fight against the Germans.

Stas actually posted statistics which showed something like 1:1.3 kill ratio in favor of the Germans. Pretty much blasted the "Russian human wave" myth to pieces.

Though when you included murdered POWs, it rose to a more favorable 1:1.8 (IIRC), but killing prisoners en masse hardly proves the fighting prowess of the Wehrmacht.

David Glantz in "When Titans Clashed" listed numerous figures to slay the "human wave" myth. For starters, Soviet numbers in key battles such as Operation Bagration was by no means overwhelming. It was more like 1.2 million Red Army soldiers facing 0.8 million Germans. To say that the ratio of men allowed the Russians a complete cakewalk is a stupid claim. 0.8 million Germans could pose very credible defence, and could potentially have caused Operation Bagration to fail, if not for silly German mistakes, and superior Russian tactics.

[K. A. Pital]

Wow... just wow. Chris OFarrell, have to second the wonder at your almost stone-still calmness when dissecting a pile of rubbish.

Japan, with its shitty small arms and inferior numbers, kicked their asses.

Yeah, except both Russia and Japan were industrializing powers during the RJW. Russia was not a European industrialized nation with the same level of power as say British Empire or Germany, both of which could crush Japan's Navy without sweating.

In the Winter War, a force of over two million Russians with thousands of tanks and aircraft got its ass kicked by around 40,000 Finns with less than fifty tanks and aircraft total.

Your knowledge of the Winter War is abysmal. More like a quarter million defenders versus a 1,000,000 strong offense force, and it was tactical and strategic blunders which caused the Winter War to go on for so long, but ultimately Russia achieved it's objectives. What did Finland achieve?

In WWII, the US had to help them out with lend-lease so they could get enough small arms, munitions, and vehicles to actually wage war outside of their own borders.

The US did not "have to" help Russia out with lend-lease; it agreed to lend-lease on strictly defined terms for it's own benefit - fighting a common enemy. Russia's war arsenals greatly exceeded the lend lease, which was used more like a pinpoint help for the Russian military industry, offering some relief in many areas where Russian industry had been technically lacking.

Once they had enough industry (what they didn't burn when Germany rolled in) going that they could support themselves, they managed to beat back a force that was waging a two-front war and was short on resources, and then conquered Eastern Europe, which the Germans had already conquered for them. And they still took ungodly casualties.

The other way round. They managed, even before any lend-lease reached the USSR, to beat the German Army and the forces of European satellites, and by 1944 they were crushing Germany and it's satellites so utterly it was not even funny. Meanwhile, the "second front" was nowhere significant until mid-1944.

They invaded Afghanistan and got their asses kicked so badly that they abandoned the job and left.

You mean we occupied Afghanistan for 10 years with loss rates similar to the loss rates the US suffers in Iraq for the last 5 years? Yeah. And the US of course took weeks to occupy Afghanistan - just as the USSR did it in mere days. Except the islamic insurgency which followed such an occupation ... which is a US problem as well.

And they still took ungodly casualties.

You mean the ungodly amount of citizens who were killed by the Germans? Well sorry; I hope next time Nazi Germany invades the USA and slaughters 10% of your population; so that some future idiot could rant about "taking ungodly casualties!".

...their grandest military accomplishment since WWII was the invasion of Georgia, a country that could have been taken by a squad of boy scouts armed with Daisy BB rifles

Georgia, which was armed and trained by NATO member nations and for a nation of it's size had it's military spending balloon to over one BILLION dollars? Is that Georgia you say you could take with BB rifles?

I couldn't find anyone trot out more condensed stupidity in a single post for a long, long time...

[lordofFNORD]

They invaded Afghanistan and got their asses kicked so badly that they abandoned the job and left.

You mean we occupied Afghanistan for 10 years with loss rates similar to the loss rates the US suffers in Iraq for the last 5 years? Yeah. And the US of course took weeks to occupy Afghanistan - just as the USSR did it in mere days. Except the islamic insurgency which followed such an occupation ... which is a US problem as well.

And the Islamic insurgency was being actively armed by the US and allies, the other major industrial/technical superpowers, as opposed to the insurgency the US deals with which has 20-year old left overs from the the Soviet occupation and what stuff they can find on the black market on funds from heroin dealing and handouts from oil magnates.

[Shroom Man 777]

Russian incompetence is a brainbug. The Russians are cold, calculating bastards and despite certain disadvantages, they make up for it in sheer ruthlessness and killiness and downright anger and their capacity to rise up after being beaten senseless, and then return twenty eight days later with a motherfucking vengeance to kill you in your sleep and eat your children should not be underestimated.

After all, they're the closest thing in real-life we can ever get to the Imperium of Man.

[K. A. Pital]

After all, they're the closest thing in real-life we can ever get to the Imperium of Man.

You are dangerously close to the truth comrade. Which means I might have to report you to Primarch Putinus.

[Shroom Man 777]

I live to serve. Acroflagellate me and turn me into a servitor so that I may better service our Founding Father.

(I want to be a skull probe!)


I think it would be awesome if an Imperial servo-skull attacked a Tau gun drone by biting it.

[open_sketchbook]

Almost all servo-skulls are missing the bottom jaw. In addition, they have the eye-lazors of doom, so the jaw is redundant.

[PeZook]

Almost all servo-skulls are missing the bottom jaw. In addition, they have the eye-lazors of doom, so the jaw is redundant.

You could install one just for kicks

[Connor MacLeod]

Almost all servo-skulls are missing the bottom jaw. In addition, they have the eye-lazors of doom, so the jaw is redundant.

You could install one just for kicks

No no no. you need a jaw that is also a chainsword. That's appropriately 40K.

A chainjaw!

[Jonen C]

What about a setup where the teeth are power weapons, the jaw muscles are set up like a powerfist and the tongue is a chainsword?

Vibrotongue might work better, though?

[Shroom Man 777]

Holy fuck, that's an awesome idea! CHOMP! CHOMP! CHOMP!

Power teeth that melt through armoring, even Space Marine armor, and then the chain-tongue can lash through the gap and go love-licking whoever is inside! While the eyes are shooting lasers at people! Pew-pew!

I shall call it the Servo-Shroom.

[EarthScorpion]

Vibrotongue might work better, though?

With great reluctance, I must add this cliché phrase;

"That's what she said!".




fin

[The Dark]

In WWII, the US had to help them out with lend-lease so they could get enough small arms, munitions, and vehicles to actually wage war outside of their own borders.

Wrong, the vast VAST majority of the small arms, munitions and vehicles used by the Red Army in WW2 were home grown, Lend Lease was relatively insignificant and only really picked up steam in later 44, by which time the Red Army had won most of the critical battles they had to fight against the Germans.

The Russian Army used a total of 600,000 tons of explosive material. 317,000 tons came from Lend-Lease sources. Of the remaining 283,000 tons, some was made from the 103,000 tons of toluene provided by the other Allies. And 15% of Russia's tanks (25% of non-light tanks) in 1942 is insignificant? 20% of all bombers and 16% of all fighters? At the Battle of Moscow, 40% of medium and heavy tanks used by the Soviet Union had been provided by the Allies (by comparison, the Siberian reinforcements constituted 15% of the non-light tanks). By the end of 1942, 27.5% of Russian aircraft were non-Russian in origin.

The US supplied Russia more ball bearings than they got from all other sources, domestic and foreign, in their entire history prior to World War II. It's true that only about 10% of all materiel was provided by Lend-Lease, but it was often highly technical equipment, allowing the Russians to focus on bulk production of simple things. The Russian Army would have had a much more difficult time marching without the 15 million pairs of boots provided by Lend-Lease. And without the GMC and Studebaker trucks, the Russian Army would have had horse-drawn artillery like the Germans, rather than motorized artillery.

This use of some Lend-Lease equipment to supplement Russian production extended to the Navy as well - Kirov and Maxim Gorky class cruisers used British Type 282 or Type 285 radar. Most destroyers used Type 291. The Pacific fleet cruisers used American SG. Subchasers used SF-1, minesweepers used SL, torpedo boats used SO-13, and the Murmansk used SK radar.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The US supplied Russia more ball bearings than they got from all other sources, domestic and foreign, in their entire history prior to World War II. It's true that only about 10% of all materiel was provided by Lend-Lease, but it was often highly technical equipment, allowing the Russians to focus on bulk production of simple things. The Russian Army would have had a much more difficult time marching without the 15 million pairs of boots provided by Lend-Lease. And without the GMC and Studebaker trucks, the Russian Army would have had horse-drawn artillery like the Germans, rather than motorized artillery.

Eh.. the Russians had their own trucks, just that most of them were lost in the early stages of the war. They might be inferior, but Zhukov assembled quite a huge fleet of trucks for example, during the Battle of Kharkin Gol.

[K. A. Pital]

The Russian Army used a total of 600,000 tons of explosive material. 317,000 tons came from Lend-Lease sources.

"Used" a total of 600,000 tons of explosive material? I think you're operating with figures you don't understand.

1) In the USSR, since mid-1941 up to mid-1945, 600,000 tons of explosive materials were produced.
2) The USA provided 295,600 metric tons, and 22,3 thousand ton of powders, meaning the Lend Lease supplies were ~53% relative to Soviet production.
3) This is excluding the pre-war stock of gunpowders and explosives, which is probably as massive considering that the USSR yearly produced 50-100,000 tons of explosives in peacetime during the industrialization years (1930-1940).

20% of all bombers and 16% of all fighters?

Falsehood.

FROM THE REPORT OF THE PEOPLE'S COMMISAR ON FOREIGN TRADE OF THE USSR A.I. MIKOYAN OF THE EXECUTION OF OBLIGATIONS, TAKEN ON BY BRITAIN AND THE USA ON THE MOSCOW CONFERENCE OF THE THREE POWERS, ABOUT THE SHIPMENTS OF ARMS, EQUIPMENT AND RAW MATERIALS TO THE USSR FOR OCTOBER-DECEMBER 1941.

9 Jan 1942. Secret.

To: Com. Stalin I.V., com. Molotov V.M.
I am hereby reporting the course of execution of obligations, taken on during the Moscow Conference of the three powers, by Great Britain and the USA about arms, equipment and raw materials shipments into the USSR for October, November and December of the 1941 in entirety.

The obligations of the USA on the Moscow Conference for monthly new plane shipments for these three months are - 600.
In new considerations of their shipments, the Americans have refined the figures further, here:
October, November, December, Total
128 | 107 | 160 | 395

Of them:
fighters - 93 | 107 | 100 | 300
bombers - 5 | zero | 60 | 65
recon planes - 30 | zero | zero | 30

Factual shipments only constitute - 204 units. Of them:
fighters - 131 unit.
bombers - 43 units.
recon planes - 30 units.

Of the 204 units shipped to the USSR:
- already brought into the USSR - 95 units.
- en route - 106 units.
- of them arriving on 12.1.1942 - 95 units.

Already loaded on ships, but still not shipped - 3 units. In total, the undersupplement of planes compared to the Moscow Conference obligations constitutes 396 units.

Such a large undersupply is explained by the fact that between 13th and 17th december the American government called back most planes which were in US harbors at the time. 447 planes were recalled of the 457 being loaded in ports. The presence of many still unloaded planes in US ports on 15 Dec 1941 was caused by the fact that 152 Aircobra fighters were delievered to the ports without propellers, supplements and munitions. Moreover, the American government for a while could not deliver the necessary number of ships to ferry the planes, and ultimately called them back off.

Source: AVP RF. F. 06. On. 4. P. 11. D. 102. L. 1, 7-16. Genuine.

And 15% of Russia's tanks (25% of non-light tanks) in 1942 is insignificant?

There were 4697 lend-lease tanks slated for the USSR in 1941-1942 in total (3472 shipped during 1942). The USSR produced 24 448 tanks during 1942. The shipment constituted around 19% of production, but a true indication of whether they were critical would be their share in frontline units. So far I can't reliably report on what kind of share it was, but it was definetely non-neglible, unlike 1941 when the quantity of allied weapons was almost, um, nonexistent in the USSR and most were "en route" by year's end.

At the Battle of Moscow, 40% of medium and heavy tanks used by the Soviet Union had been provided by the Allies (by comparison, the Siberian reinforcements constituted 15% of the non-light tanks). By the end of 1942, 27.5% of Russian aircraft were non-Russian in origin.

Another falsehood. 40%? This would mean that Russia had a total of 67,5 tanks in the Battle of Moscow, since only 27 tanks were delievered inside the USSR by the start of 1942. I think what you meant was that Lend-Lease shipments in 1942 have covered the tank losses the Red Army suffered in the Battle of Moscow.

[...] Likewise there is an undersupplement of tanks. The USA obliged to deliver, according to the Moscow Conference, 750 tanks in three months.

On 31th October the American government refined a new figure of tank shipments: in October, 166 tanks, in November - 207 tanks and in December - 300 tanks, in total 673 tanks.

Factually only 182 units are delivered. Of them, medium - 72 units, light - 110 units. Of them - brought into the Soviet Union - 27 units, en route - 139 units, in ports - 16 units.

Source: same.

The USSR utilized 990 tanks in the Battle of Moscow. Even if we consider the entire 27 tanks shipped to the moment taking part in the Battle of Moscow, that would constitute... 2,7%.

About the fighters:

What relates to fighters, the P-39 Aircobra (various modifications) was the best of them, of them during 1942-1943 around 25 aviation regiments were formed and sent to the frontline, from the British Hurricanes in 1941-1942 - 29 aviation regiments, which constituted accordingly 4,2% and 5,2% of all aviation regiments formed during the war

The share of lend-lease fighters (up to 27%) rose so high only during the last years of the war (1943-1945).

The Russian Army would have had a much more difficult time marching without the 15 million pairs of boots provided by Lend-Lease. And without the GMC and Studebaker trucks, the Russian Army would have had horse-drawn artillery like the Germans, rather than motorized artillery.

Actually yes, that was a nice help. But it's a fact that Russian Army was equally motorized with the Wehrmacht, and most of the cars were delievered late in the war, which means the thesis that Russia won most critical early-war battles without the lend-lease is true. It is also true that lend-lease was critical to speeding up the advances in 1943-1945.

I also agree that shipments of some industrial products like bearings, steel-cutting machinery, and raw materials were often plunging into "critical spots" of the Soviet industry, allowing the USSR to concentrate economic resources on simpler tasks.

This use of some Lend-Lease equipment to supplement Russian production extended to the Navy as well

The Soviet Navy was absolutely rudimental in it's role in the victory in the Great Patriotic War, so whatever technologies have been shipped there, they are even less critical than what you mentioned.

[K. A. Pital]

Lend-lease plane shipment graph:

Might not reflect the actual presence of planes on the frontline (it would probably be delayed by 1-2 month from the shipment).

[Sea Skimmer]

There were 4697 lend-lease tanks slated for the USSR in 1941-1942 in total (3472 shipped during 1942). The USSR produced 24 448 tanks during 1942. The shipment constituted around 19% of production, but a true indication of whether they were critical would be their share in frontline units. So far I can't reliably report on what kind of share it was, but it was definetely non-neglible, unlike 1941 when the quantity of allied weapons was almost, um, nonexistent in the USSR and most were "en route" by year's end.

An awful lot of those Soviet built tanks had American Molybdenum and Chromium in the armor, or else used armor plate of American manufacture outright. Course quite a few of the invading German tanks also used American Molybdenum imported and stockpiled before the war. As we know once those stockpiles ran out, the quality of German armor plate in 1944-45 dropped to brittle crap.

Issues like this make it very troublesome to define the importance of lend lease in such specific terms as numbers of tanks or planes. How valuable is a Soviet built plane or tank without it’s lend lease radio set for example? You can’t really put a specific value on that, but you could attempt to measure the economic impact of Russia not having to build radios itself, or not having to send more workers out to mine more chromium.

[K. A. Pital]

Yeah, most definetely the supplies of critical elements like rare raw materials or complicated war equipment allowed the Soviet industry to "relax" and spend virtually no resources on plunging "tense points".

I could give some info on radio stations, BTW.

Pre-war construction
Radio set name | NKO Plan for 1940 | Ministry of Industry-corrected figures | Factually Built

11AK and RAF radiostations | 660 | 170 | 98
RSB radiostations | 900 | 610 | 373
RB radiostations | 10000 | 6000 | 4523

Prior to war's eve the Soviet Industry also produced around 400 71-TK and 5-10 radiostations for tanks.

1941-1942
From end of 1941 to mid-1942, radio production virtually ceased and new-construction tanks and all newly formed command units of the RKKA were thrown into battle without new radios. This was caused by the evacuation of 14 out of 15 radio plants deep into Russia. The remaining plant produced barely a few radios per month. Later the USSR pumped up production of it's own communications.

Lend-lease stations
Radiostations of operative level (SCR-299, 399, 499) were shipped starting in 1942 and until 1945, total number of shipped - 1384 (around 12% of those were lost in transit). The Soviet Industry produced 1610 RAF radiostations during the same period, and I can't find the numbers for other types of radiostations. But for operative-level command, the radiostations were pretty important... to compensate, the USSR would have to produce another thousand RAF radiostations, which is not a easy feat.

Lend-lease telephone cable
Suffice to say, the USSR could almost completely ignore production of field communication cable, since the lend-lease supplied it with 1 456 000 km of cable. The USSR produced 231 000 km of cable during the war (and had some pre-war stock, including the ~68 000 km produced pre-war). It was a pretty critical task which would otherwise force the USSR to extract more rare metals for cable and expand communication cable production sevenfold.

[hobbit_breath]

Yes, except their "Emperor" happens to be Chaos Undivided.

I mean, how can a planet based on a nation that gave us banzai charges, Unit 731, tentacle hentai, and rapid technological innovation NOT worship Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh and Tzeentch?

Besides, they already have an army based on Japan. They're called the Tau.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

That would rock as a start for a dark heresy campaign.

Btw you forgot the raccoons that beat ppl to death with there huge nuts.